Thailand Funeral

[Tigerman1]

Dear All

My wife has had a death in the family ( honestly)!

We live in the UK and I wanted to find out about Thai funerals etc.

The family member is in Issarn and so a poorer part fo the although there was life insurance.

I remember that a Thai is put in a concrete above ground coffin and then about a year or so later the bones are extracted and a ceromony is had with teh monks etc.

Is this the case? i am no expert on Thai funerals and my wife is not in the frame of mind to discuss at present.

Just a note, we are not being asked for millions of baht to pay for a funeral or any money for that matter ( I wouldn't pay anyway) but I just want to know the process and costs as i may want to make a donation toward the funeral.

So, in a nutshell, what is the process and what is the general cost now on death in issarn and when the bones are extracted and how long before they are extracted?

Thanks to everyone in advance.

[neverdie]

We just had a death in the thai family. She was kept at the Wat for 5 days, continuously for days family turned up at the temple to pay their respects & during this time, close family kept knocking on her coffin with food offerings & on the 5th day after a relatively short ceremony she was cremated. I think & I'm not sure about exact costs, but a donation was made to the Wat & the immediate family contributed for the other costs, which Im not sure about. Theres also something that has to be done 100 days after it all, but I can't remember what thats about.

I can imagine there are probably more ways than one when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing.

Here have a look at this info in this link, may help you realise that the exact proceedure isnt set in concrete & can depend on the wealth of the family etc.

http://www.buddhanet.net/funeral.htm

Edited June 23, 2009 by neverdie

[Tigerman1]

Thanks Neverdie (apt name for this topic!).

So it may well be over very soon and I can then make a donation to teh Wat. How about 'bones' ceromony? I am not sure about this as if cremated the bones will be gone too.

Intersted to know more about this as they are obviously different types of ways to do things.

Anyway, thanks again.

[harrry]

. if cremated the bones will be gone too.

.

I believe that the day afterthe cremation some of the bones are returned by the monks to the family. In western countries the remains are ground u as people dont want the whole bones.

[Crossy]

Yeah, I've been to a few, all followed the basic formula noted by Neverdie (Central Thailand). Number of days lying 'in state' and number of monks chanting varied according to how much money was being spent.

A small donation towards costs was asked, we gave a 1000 Baht (instruction from Wifey and still many time more than most could afford), except at a close friends funeral (Farang) where we paid all the catering costs.

[Tigerman1]

Thank you. I have read teh attachement and it is very helpful. It sounds as if teh ceremony will take place very soon and it will all be over with.

Regards.

[gpdjohn]

My wife's grandfather died last tuesday night.

Thai - Chinese.

Monks came to the house, then the police to record his death, then the doctor to inject the body with formilyn.

Body was taken to the temple the next morning.

Family, a very large family, has been coming and going since.

The last 6 days have been spent at the temple welcoming well wishers and more family members paying respect. Last night several monks from Bangkok arrived to again chant and then returned to Bangkok after 2 hours.

Today is the last day with the body being walked around the temple 3 times. It will then be transported to what I take is like a vault to be placed into storage for 3 years to dry. Then will be cremated.

The family placed 100,000 baht for all things..food, liquor, monks, etc and a donation box was set beside the body for said purpose. I was told that if the donations reach what the family put out, then small gifts will be sent to each family member who donated.

I am told that each family will have different ways to conduct a funeral. Be it Thai-Lao, Thai-Chinese, etc. Out of the 100K, there is also a donation to the Wat.

I too, was under the impression that after 100 days, the cremation would take place, but was told it is up to the family and in some families, as in my case, the 3 year wait is for the sorrow to fade.

[Mosha]

Being in a village where every knows everyone else, we go to a lot.

The wake lasts between 3 - 10 days. This depends on how far widespread the family are, how well known and repected. The wake can either take place at the Wat or the family home.

This next bit varies as to the area, but around here everyone who turns up at the wake gets fed. At my wife's home province Nakhon Sri Thammerat, in Pak Phanang, only people who have travelled far get fed.

Donations are given to the family of the deceased. If the wake is at home, then a family member brings the monks for the prayers, and then returns them. Soft drinks and/or water are all that is provided, although the family may elect to allow someone to run a stall selling beer and spirits. In the south the body is never alone, so this is seen as a good excuse for gambling, and the police turn a blind eye to it, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. After the wake period the body is cremated, I'm not sure what is done with the remains. After 100 days a remembrance (for want of a name) is held. The monks are fetched to the family home, fed and then prayers are chanted. This is apparently to ensure the spirit is going in the rifgt direction. I too have witnessed family members knocking on the coffin, and chatting with the deceased. Whether they don't class them as dead until after the funeral service, I don't know.

[Farma]

There's a detailed thread with pics on an Issan Funeral in the Issan forum. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Isaan-Funeral-t161125.html

[ozzydom]

Every villager pays into a fund to help cover the funeral costs,(in our village it is 500 baht per year +50 baht every time somebody dies) ,the family of the deceased gets 50k towards expenses.

As well,the rights to the catering/selling outlets and the gambling concession are sold.

Face is a big thing at these times,and it is a time to show your standing in the village ,for instance if you kill two cows to feed the "mourners"you are way up there ,whereas if you only kill one pig or buy in a few fish you are in the lower echelon.

As soon as the person dies they let off two large firecrackers to frighten the spirit away from the vicinity.

The remains are kept on ice for varying times, dependant on how you were thought of by your family,before the procession to the temple and crematorium .

When Thais talk about the return of the bones ,they are referring to the return of the cremated remains, anything from a few days to a fortnight, for which a smaller ceremony is held.

The person who sits with the body is usually an elderly relative with regular visits from a monk, young people are usually kept pretty well away as the spirit will be looking for a new host body. You will often see effagies or dolls made out of straw hanging outside the houses where infants live,this is to confuse the spirit and help prevent it entering the body of the infants in the village.

There are many and varied ceremonies held at intervals ,usually 110 days, 5 years and ten years ,all designed to keep the spirit happy so that it does not turn nasty and give the family or community grief.

[PoorSucker]

This link might help you.

thaiworldview

[sbk]

Chinese tend to bury their dead, non-Chinese tend to cremate but it is a personal choice. My husband's grandfather was buried as he did not want to be cremated. Disliked the idea intensely for some reason

Funerals are generally held from 3 days to a week (but can be longer), part of it depends on the size of the family, the wealth of the family and when the right day comes up for cremation. So, for instance, one of my husband's myriad relatives died just before Khao Phansa and was cremated within 3 days as there were several days around the holiday where cremation was not allowed and they couldn't afford a longer funeral. As far as I am aware, there is no cremation on Sundays either.

Funeral attendees give money to the family on the day of the cremation, this should help cover the costs of the funeral but it is unlikely it will pay for the entire thing.

There is a small family only ceremony at 7 days and then again at 100. It is unusual for non-immediate family to attend these events at the Wat.

[krading]

In my experience the relatives usually receive more in donations than they spend.

[sbk]

My experience has always been that the shorter the funeral, the less expenses, the more likely the donations at the end will cover it. A week long funeral can be expensive and the money might not stretch that far. Its all relative. And, it all depends on the relatives too.

[cognos]

..in my Thai Chinese family funerals last 9 days (Phuket) jing jing

[Texpat]

2004 Father in law died.

Thai family all declares bankruptcy -- nobody's got squat Woe is us!

Farang arrives from WAY far away. Pays for entire funeral based on info given.

///

Years later.

Young brother recently graduated university> Me to my wife -- How much does he owe?

Nothing. dead father's inheretance......Nice. Can someone explain to me why I paid entirely for this guy's funeral when his son's snatch and run?

NEVER trust a Thai.

[IMA_FARANG]

My thai girlfriends father passed away about a year ago. He was in his 80's. The family is originally from the Ayutthya area. The body lay for 3 days while the monks chanted, then was cremated. The ashes sat at the temple for a short period of time. Then after 30 days they were taken out and a another ceremony was held. The family then kept the ashes at the temple until 100 days had gone by. The family got together, hired a boat, and took the ashes down the Chaopaya river until it comes to the sea. The ashes were then scattered into the ocean. I was told this is a Thai tradition.

The cost for the funeral and the ceremonies was split among the family relatives. He had 3 wives, so the family is a large one. My Thai girlfriend make a contribution (she is from the 2nd wife). The eldest brother (from the 1st marriage) was basically "in charge" of the arrangements, as he is the oldest living male relative.

The family's guests and acquaintances brought gifts and donations. The family is mostly farmers, no one is "rich" but they all helped pay for the funeral arrangements as well as they could. The cremation, the ceremony after 30 days, and the boat trip/scattering of ashes at 100 days....for these the guests and monks involved were all fed with food provided by the family. My Thai girlfriend and her sister (1 year older, both from the 2nd marriage) mainly did the cooking and the serving of food for all the guests. The entire family provided the food for the monks that chanted at the ceremonies, but their food was actually prepared by women who always cook for the monks at the temple. (Their way of "earning merit").

[Gary A]

Funerals in our small village are expensive and few families could afford the funeral. Most if not all the families contribute to a fund, call it insurance if you like. It costs 500 baht per year per person covered. When the insured person passes away, there is a big party and some allow gambling. The police do indeed turn a blind eye. There is normally booze, a band and sometimes even dancing girls. The party will last from three days to five days. Most villagers also make a small donation. My wife gives two hundred baht for her and myself and usually helps with the cooking. I don't go to funerals or weddings so I don't know many details. The body is always cremated within about a week. Ashes, small bones and teeth are given to the family and those may or may not be buried in another small ceremony.

[xylophone]

I wasn’t looking forward to attending the funeral in the small town of Bang Rakam, some 20 kms southwest of Phitsanoluk, but was obliged to because it was Surin’s mother and it would have been disrespectful to her and her family had I not attended.

I had met the old lady on a number of occasions and had not formed any sort of bond because of cultural and language differences. I did notice that she was constantly chewing the betel nut and leaf concoction which turned her teeth black and gums red and made her spit into a jar every twenty minutes or so, and this seems very prevalent in the poorer areas. And it was this which was eventually to kill her, causing cancer of the mouth which then spread. So after battling away for two years and finally ending up as a 15kg pile of skin and bone, she died last Wednesday.

Surin, one of 7 children (three daughters and four brothers) was the one who had done the most for her mother over the years, giving her money on a monthly basis ever since she started work at the age of 15, whilst none of the others had contributed in this way, and most of them had not bothered to take care of the mother through this last two years of illness. It was clear that Surin felt a special bond with her mother and the constant care that she administered over the past six months would have tested the strength of a saint.

From what I can gather the funeral ceremonies can last 3,5 or 7 days, and the one which is chosen is done so from a few different viewpoints. Whilst everybody wants to do their best for a parent who dies, the three-day ceremony is the least expensive as regards paying for the services of the monks, hire of the Wat, supplying and cooking the food, flowers and family gifts, the type of coffin and ceremony and so on. Although another consideration is how far away the family is spread, as they need to have time to arrive in time for the full ceremony. A three-day ceremony therefore suits many of the poor country families, however it also, sadly, reflects the state of their finances and also upon how much they “revered” the departed (the “face” thing coming into play).

Surin chose a five-day ceremony because she wanted to do the best for her mother even though the family are dirt poor, so it was up to me to provide the 100,000 baht or thereabouts for the ceremony.

The actual ceremony started on Thursday, and that’s when the rest of her family arrived, however Surin knowing that I was not keen on funerals, or the area, said it was okay if I came on the Sunday, and then stayed over for the cremation ceremony on the Monday.

I arrived at the Wat on Sunday at about 6 PM and was amazed at the size of it, considering Bang Rakam was such a small village/town. It had a very large courtyard with the usual extremely ornate and large temple, the cremation building which was no more than the size of a two-storey townhouse tapering to a point at the top and this constituted the chimney, and the building for the monks and the public to converge for the ceremonies.

This single storey building measured about 15 m wide by 50 metres long in a rectangular shape and at one end was placed the coffin in a sort of alcove specially designed for this purpose. The coffin was about five feet off the ground and completely surrounded by around 500 flowers, all of the woven variety and obviously made for this purpose. They looked so real and so beautiful that it took your breath away. A large photograph of Surin’s mother was hanging on the coffin, although the body was not inside of that particular coffin and it was there for ornament sake (she was in a sealed coffin behind this one for obvious reasons).

In the half of the hall where the coffin stood there were chairs and a few benches and tables placed for the mourners to sit. Although the floor of the building was of polished stone or marble there were some grubby large carpets on the ground and at least four or five children were rolling around playing in this area. The other half of the hall had a group of guys playing the Thai traditional instruments and behind them were more chairs.

On the walls of the building were some huge murals, measuring around 3 m high by 4 m wide and they were depicting an aspect of Buddhism which I never knew existed. The top third of the paintings consisted of normal life in Thailand, one showing a hunting scene, one showing rural folk herding buffalo, another showing a mansion and so on. However the bottom two-thirds of the paintings were all devoted to scenes reminiscent of hel_l, with fairly white skinned people being attacked by their overseers, dogs and other beasts, thrown into fires, impaled on sticks and being roasted alive, all overseen by black skinned folk wearing red bandannas and red pantaloon type shorts. And in the top corner of these scenes was always “Buddha” talking to someone who seemed to be in charge of this mayhem.

One large mural which covered the whole wall showed the same “Buddha” flying above the clouds on his way to what looked like heaven or permanent enlightenment. Fascinating and it gave me something to focus on during the chanting and Thaispeak as I understood none of it.

So the ceremony had been under way for a while and whilst monks filed in and did their chanting for an hour or so, with some people placing their hands together bowed in a solemn and unsmiling stance, others sat and chatted and ate food, and children jumped around and played, so it was both a ceremony of both ritual and irreverence, contradictory as that may sound. And this contradiction was highlighted even further when one of the Wat helpers walked across the floor to move an ornamental stand with lighted cigarette hanging out of the corner of his mouth!!

Surin’s four brothers (and their sons) had their heads shaved and donned the garb of a monk for the ceremony and sat away from the monks, but also away from the general entourage, as if signalling a special place for these interim monks.

Through it all the last remaining sister of Surin’s mother sat on the ground chewing a concoction of betel nut and leaves, the same concoction which had just killed her sister, and spitting into a plastic container with a screw on lid (thankfully). I suppose it is no different to us attending the funeral of a friend who has died of lung cancer, and then going outside for a cigarette, however one has to say that this stuff is chewed for most of the day (16 hours) so it would have to be more lethal than the occasional cigarette I would think.

I was introduced to the family, some of whom I knew and others I had never seen, and friends, and friends of friends and so on as I was the token farang in the whole proceedings. I stayed for four hours until that part of the ceremony ended and it included having photographs taken in front of the coffin, as well as photographs being taken at random by a paid photographer.

Surin and her family stayed in the Wat overnight with her mother’s coffin, as they had done for the previous four nights and I went back to the relative splendour of an average hotel.

Continued on next post............

[xylophone]

Monday arrived and it was the day of the cremation, so I was not looking forward to this part of it, however I arrived at the predetermined time of 12:30 PM and was ushered to the same seat as I had occupied the day before. Surin was as busy as ever making sure that everybody was comfortable, had enough to drink and eat and that things were running smoothly, however I could see the anguish on her face because she knew that within a few hours her mother would be gone forever, and although she had died on the previous Wednesday, she was still here in the coffin and to all intents and purposes still with her.

The monks played a greater part in the afternoon ceremony taking up most of it with their chanting and the rituals of offering them gifts and them relaying stories of the family and their life in Bang Rakam. To begin with there were eight monks, then around 32, and finally all of the monks sitting cross legged along one wall, whilst three of the more senior monks sat on their individual ornately carved chairs, resembling thrones, and proceeded to tell more stories of family life and of Surin’s mother with the occasional bit of humour thrown in. They also chanted and intertwined this with family history, or so it seemed, and this went on for what seemed like an eternity. The monks were using microphones and the occasional screech of feedback to the amplifier sometimes seemed to ruin the moment.

I was mentioned as the token farang and something light-hearted was said because as soon as I heard the word farang I smiled and others in the room smiled and laughed a little. The head monk spoke to me in Thai, and I didn’t understand a word, so I just nodded and smiled and that seemed to please everybody.

It soon became more intense and there was almost continuous chanting by the monks, and at one time they paused and there was silence and I thought that was the end of the session. At that particular point a pigeon, which had a nest on the golden glass cased Buddha just above the coffin, flew out of the room through the open side of the building and I took this to be symbolic, as in her mother’s soul finally departing on its way to a better place and I wondered if anyone else had the same thoughts. However this romantic notion was quickly dispelled when the pigeon flew back in a few minutes later!

So more chanting and a more serious mood engulfed the more than 200 people attending the ceremony, both inside of the building and outside near the crematorium. Then I saw the paid helpers removing the flowers and preparing to take the photographs and ornaments outside, along with the real coffin in which her mother lay.

At this point I was asked to go and sit outside under the shade of another low ceilinged building which was already almost full with other people coming to pay their last respects. It was also where the town dignitaries were seated and they obviously had their part to play.

It was time to put the coffin onto a type of ornamental trailer so that it could be led around the crematorium by the family, and with friends and well-wishers following behind. It was at this point that Surin could hold back the tears no longer, and she was sobbing almost uncontrollably as she walked in front of the coffin, another sister expressionless, and the other one crying gently. I felt so sorry for this strong and proud lady who has come through all sorts of adversity to be the lady whom I admire and respect more than anyone else I have ever known in my life, and I had great difficulty in controlling the tears which were continually rolling down my cheeks.

Strangely enough, her brothers stayed inside whilst was this was going on as if it was part of the ritual that they should do so. The coffin was then taken up the steps and rested upon a stand in front of the opening of the crematorium oven, which was behind a pink and white curtain.

The daughters and their daughters stood at the bottom of the steps whilst dignitaries were called and made their way to the coffin, to be handed a gift or offering by one of the daughters, to place on the coffin. Surin had mentioned that my name would be called because I had given her and the family “support” as regards the ceremony, so wiping away the tears and trying to look as composed as possible, I bowed to the attending dignitaries and made my way up the steps to place my gift on the coffin. Coming down the steps I passed Surin and the poor girl was still so terribly upset that my heart bled for her.

Finally, all that was done and the sons then went up the steps and placed their gifts on the coffin and said their last goodbyes. Only one of the sons was shedding a tear, while the others seemed able to hold back their emotions. Then all of the attendees were given a paper flower and a stick of incense to place on the coffin as the last gesture, I did this along with the others and went back to my seat.

Then as the coffin was manhandled into the opening and pushed inside, with some difficulty I must say, and Surin and her sisters went up to say goodbye and to put all of the paper flowers and joss sticks inside of the coffin. By now all of the sisters were crying and I felt relieved in a way that they could show their emotions, although Surin’s grief touched me more than the others of course.

They then came down the steps and looked upwards to the crematorium workers who were trying to get things to work, and things were not working.........the sliding door was stuck and would not come down over the entrance and despite step ladders and heaving and grunting it still wouldn’t budge. Then a couple of lighted torches were thrown into the chamber and the gas lit up and it was all go, despite there being no front on the furnace opening.

Quite how this all worked was a mystery because the coffin stayed intact, quite probably made of stainless steel, but having a false bottom to allow the flames to burn through it and therefore incinerate the body. By this time Surin and her sisters were busy comforting each other and interacting with other mourners who were also tearful, so did not see the goings-on at the incinerator entrance, although they did glance at the chimney from time to time to look for the smoke which was the signal that their mother had finally left them. However I was nearer and tried to get a look at what was happening.

They then went inside of the building to speak to other folk, and it was fortunate that they did because no smoke was coming out of the chimney however it was billowing out from the open side of the incinerator and the courtyard was enveloped in a grey brown sickly sweet smelling smoke, which I took to be the smoke from the burning body, which was not what was supposed to happen and I worried that it would be seen as a bad omen. However within five minutes the smoke had dispersed and the flames were doing their bit roaring away at the 15kg pile of skin and bone which was previously Surin’s mother.

This was a tragi-comedy of sorts and my thoughts were that it could only happen in Thailand.

As a last and final gesture Surin and her sisters took a glass of water up to the entrance of the incinerator where one end of the coffin was still to be seen and they sprinkled this water on the coffin. This was to prevent her mother getting “too hot” during this final part of her journey, something which was obviously symbolic as she was at that particular time in the middle of a mass of roaring flames.

To all intents and purposes, things had gone well in Surin’s eyes and after bidding farewell to many folk (the monks had said that over 400 people had visited over the many days of the ceremony) she was heading back to her mother’s house (read semi-shack) with the rest of the family to carry on the ritual/funeral protocol for another seven days.

I bade her a tearful farewell and headed back to the hotel to try and relax and get some of the stress out of my system, and of course to have something to eat as I had not eaten for 12 hours or so.

We spoke briefly on the phone later that night as I was heading off to Bangkok then Phuket the next day and she seemed a bit more settled.

I arrived home in Patong the next day and immediately telephoned Surin to find out how she was, and she was still with the family at the house, doing what they needed to do, but also recalling memories of happier times which seemed to assist with the grieving and helping them to move on.

I remember her saying to me, “Tiirak, every people tell me that I do good for my Mama and that I have a good heart for her. And I am happy because it was the last thing I could do for her. Thank you for all you do for me and my family”.

For a brief moment I felt ashamed that I had hesitated at the cost of this funeral, however I was so pleased that I was able to help, because in times like this one cannot put a cost on celebrating the life and mourning the death in a family, when it means so much to the person you care for.

In summary, although I dreaded the thought of attending the funeral, I was glad I did because I saw another side of Thai life and that only enriched my understanding of the people, the culture and the place in which I live. In that respect I would urge anybody not to be afraid of attending something like this if it happens in your Thai family, but to embrace it and learn from it.

[slapout]

As mentioned, most Thai villages have a "insurance fund" where families of the community, pay yearly and upon death of a non family member. Customs vary from area to area, depending on the local beliefs, superstitions, perceived social standing, wealth, etc. Length of time from death to burial/cremation varies as noted on prior posts. I have never been approached to pay for immediate family funeral expense, (3 so far), siblings paid and took/divided insurance fund and donations and worked it out. If the partner of a farang is a only child, the request for assistance (money wise during the course of the ceremony) is probable??? This is due to cash payment of refreshment/food, etc which may be required.

My wife and I made a donation to building a Crematorium in her village 15 + years ago and that ensured her immediate family, would not be required to make contribution to the local temple for the services, for family death. Gifts to monks not included in this. Insurance, and donations have seemed to cover up to a 5 day (death to cremation) with food served at the home for the last two days, (2 meals/day). Just my experience.

[astral]

I remember that a Thai is put in a concrete above ground coffin and then about a year or so later the bones are extracted and a ceromony is had with the monks etc.

No need for extended rights, unless the person is of very high birth.

Neverdie describes a typical funeral,

it can be less days, if money is limited.

The ashes can be interred in a small mausoleum (chedi), kept at home, or scattered at sea.

[Beetlejuice]

This thread is so dated and the OP has already died of old age long after this was started.

[kenallday]

I remember that a Thai is put in a concrete above ground coffin and then about a year or so later the bones are extracted and a ceromony is had with the monks etc.

No need for extended rights, unless the person is of very high birth.

Neverdie describes a typical funeral,

it can be less days, if money is limited.

The ashes can be interred in a small mausoleum (chedi), kept at home, or scattered at sea.

Another method the Chinese Buddhist have is to throw the body away on a mountain or hill and let the birds and animals eat it, (sky burial) the animals then redistribute the corpse back to the Earth when they have a dump,they sometimes make the bones into musical instruments like whistles / flutes etc - very cheap and can save on a paying for a band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial

[astral]

This thread is so dated and the OP has already died of old age long after this was started.

I missed that, but none the less good info for members with Thai families.

[slapout]

I remember that a Thai is put in a concrete above ground coffin and then about a year or so later the bones are extracted and a ceromony is had with the monks etc.

No need for extended rights, unless the person is of very high birth.

Neverdie describes a typical funeral,

it can be less days, if money is limited.

The ashes can be interred in a small mausoleum (chedi), kept at home, or scattered at sea.

Another method the Chinese Buddhist have is to throw the body away on a mountain or hill and let the birds and animals eat it, (sky burial) the animals then redistribute the corpse back to the Earth when they have a dump,they sometimes make the bones into musical instruments like whistles / flutes etc - very cheap and can save on a paying for a band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial

A similar concept was used by the northern plains Indians of North America. They used a elevated platform to lay the body with personal possessions. The carrion birds were welcome but not the scavengers who might nibble , if at ground level. Small world, it seems.

[Kwasaki]

I am sorry for your wifes family lost, that said.

This has been amusing, maybe I'm cold hearted.

If I were you, I take it your English, just ask the Mrs. what to do ! Full Stop.

Just one thing I picked up on is the bones !! They are returned to the family so they can scatter them on the ground and then they look for lottery numbers.

If you feel the need to give money then give it but not without your wifes approval, it is not not your family whatever you think..

[IMA_FARANG]

My Thai girlfriend's father died about two years ago. Here's what the family did:

The body was taken to the Wat. The ceremony lasted for 5 days (I was told 5). Apparently the exact number of days is determined by the family and the "auspicious" days as determined by the monks and a fortune teller. The family supplies food for the guests and also the monks. But the monks don't eat after noon. There are usually women who cook for the monks...but the family supplied the food for the Wat's cooks to prepare for the monks. My Thai girlfriend and her sisters supervised and organised the preparation of the food for the guests. Apparently the guests bring gifts of money and food for the family, and the family uses the gifts to finance the costs. My Thai girlfriend and her older sister organized the whole thing, and all the family shared the expense.

After the period agreed on, the body is cremated. The monks chant and the body is cremated. The ashes are then kept at the Wat for the 100 day period. I think there was also some ceremony after 40 days. At the end of the 100 day period, the ashes are taken out of the Wat. A boat is hired,(I think the cost may be shared with other families) and the ashes are taken down the Chaopaya river until they come to the ocean. The ashes are then scattered into the sea, with a small ceremony. The family then returns to Bangkok and the ceremonies are over. After a certain number of days, the family may go to the Wat, and offer alms and burn incense to the memory of the person cremated, making merit for him or her.

Now my girlfriend's family was originally from the Ayuttaya area, and some of the extended family still lives there, and that may have something to do with the way the ceremony was run. I wasn't there as I was working in Greece when her father died, but the procedure is what I was told by my Thai girlfriend afterwards.

Edited September 11, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Kerryd]

My dad died recently (6 Nov) in Pattaya (almost 78, lung cancer, not a surprise). I had only seen a part of a Buddhist funeral ceremony before, as a spectator, and wasn't sure what all to expect (or what was expected of me).

At the hospital, they filled out a form noting cause of death, date/time and other details. Dad's "companion" (Paw) had to take that to City Hall to get the Death Certificate. We had to wait until Monday to go to the embassy in Bangkok to get the release letter. We went to a local temple to arrange the service Tuesday morning, only to find out they were too busy. We were told Friday was the earliest date. Dad stayed in the cooler at the Banglamung Hospital morgue.

I asked my (Thai) friend about how/when they would transport dad from the morgue to the temple, and was told they (the hospital or the temple) don't normally arrange that, and that it was usually done by family members in a family vehicle ! We were able to arrange to hire a couple of Sawang Boriboon (sp) members with a covered truck to transport dad Friday morning.

From this point on, I became a lot more personally involved in the whole process. Far more than I had expected. When we arrived at the morgue Friday morning, the attendants were just finishing loading him up with the formaldehyde, (and had already dressed him in the clothes Paw had brought previously). Unlike (many) Western services, no effort was made to try and make the corpse more "presentable". I was somewhat disturbed to see the attendant stuffing wads of cotton in dad's mouth, nose and ears. We (the attendants and myself) had to lift dad onto the backboard, strap him on and then lift him into the back of the truck. Paw was instructed to light an incense stick (single) and place it in the bowl at the morgue, and then another (single) stick which was placed in a small bowl that went into the back of the truck.

We arrived at the temple, which has a building to one side that is more or less dedicated to these matters. A gold coloured sheet was placed on a wooden table. We placed dad on the sheet and a second sheet was draped over him. The incense bowl was placed on a small table near him. The "Pouring Water" ceremony was supposed to be at 4pm that day, but it was decided to move it up a couple hours as the people at the temple were concerned that the body would start to decompose too quickly. Paw stayed at the temple to insure there was a lit incense stick burning all the time. I went home to shower and change clothes.

For the "pouring water" ceremony, the top gold sheet was removed. Dad's right hand was extended over a large open bowl. Another large bowl was filled with water and flower petals/blossoms. Each person in attendance took a small bowl, filled it with water/petals/blossoms and then poured it into dad's open hand (at the other ceremony I had seen, a flower had been placed in the hand and the water poured over that). After pouring the water, each person would walk around the table (saying a prayer or final good-bye I guess). When the last person was done, the attendant scrapped the petals off into the "catch" bowl and clasped dad's hands over his chest. We lifted dad off the table and into the (wooden) coffin, where the attendant tied a string around dad's wrists and trailed a length of it out of the coffin.

Everyone then made another circuit around the coffin and put some small money into dad's hands. Anything else people wanted to give him for his final journey was also placed into the coffin. We then lifted the coffin into a large, ornate box, which is actually a cooler. The attendant unrolled more string and closed the door of the cooler, then took the roll of string and strung it around the edge of the room to where the monks would be later on. Everyone (except Paw and a couple friends) left at that point, as the next part of the ceremony was to be at 7pm that evening.

For the evening ceremony, we had 11 monks who sat along the back wall of the building on a raised platform. Paw, myself and 9 others lined up in front of them and presented them with gifts of water and juice. More incense was lit, and then the monks started the chanting. My knees were in agony within a few minutes and my friends told me I could go sit in a chair at the front of the building, but I didn't think that would be appropriate so I stuck it out. After about 20 minutes there was a pause and we presented the monks with small bouquets of flowers. More chanting followed. At one point, the string that was tied around dad's wrists was unrolled so that all the monks could hold it for a period. It was then rolled up and set aside. All in all, I think it lasted about 1 1/2 hours.

After the monks left, friends and family gathered outside for a small meal (prepared by the staff at the temple). Then everyone left. I was told I had to be back at 7am to "feed the monks".

I arrived early, and we waited for the monks to finish their morning rounds. Paw had placed some of dad's favourite snacks on a small table by the door of the cooler. I was told to light a (single) incense, knock on the door of the cooler and "let dad know" that breakfast was ready. Soon after, the 11 monks filed into the building and took their places on the raised platform. The temple staff had prepared food which we served to the monks. As there was only Paw, myself and a couple friends, we had to scramble around a bit to present each monk with each bowl as well as bottles of water and soda pop). After the meal, we then presented each monk with a new robe and a (prepackaged) basket of "goodies".

I was told to be back for 3pm for the next part.

The next part consisted of taking the coffin out of the cooler and placing it onto a wheeled cart. The roll of string was unwound so that the monks could hold it. I had to lead the precession around the crematorium carrying a picture of dad. Paw followed carrying the incense bowl (same one we had gotten at the morgue). The monks followed, holding the string. I have no idea who was pushing the cart. I never actually looked. We circled the crematorium 3 times (counter-clockwise) and stopped in the front. The monks went off to the side while a group of us manhandled the coffin up the stairs and onto a wheeled cart. Dad's picture was placed on a stand and the incense bowl placed nearby. A bowl of candy and small coins wrapped in plastic was there. The senior monk and I took turns throwing handfuls out to the crowd (awful lot of kids in the crowd for some reason). At the bottom of the steps, a table had been set up and there where large bowls of cheap knick-knacks (tooth pick dispensers, LED light balls, note pads, etc). More on that later.

A monk off to one side started reading something, then called out a name (Paw's name). She went up the "front" steps accompanied by another person carrying a bowl that had (a robe ?) and paper flowers on it. When she got to the casket, a monk went up from the side steps, took the (robe ?) and chanted (something). The flowers were placed on the stand under the coffin. Then they both left the way they came. This was repeated 7 more times, and then it was my turn. Same procedure.

After that, we took the coffin off of the stand and placed in on the floor.

The attendants then cut the string around dad's wrists and, amazingly, scooped the money from his hands (pocketing it), took the pack of cigarettes from his shirt pocket and patted him down (to see if there was anything else worth taking I guess). Then the paper flowers were placed into the coffin. All in attendance filed up the steps, picking up a smaller paper flower on the way and placing it in the coffin. Left over flowers then were dumped in. We then lifted the coffin into the oven. The coffin lid was slid in the side, and the wooden base the coffin had been on (not the cart), was stuffed in on top of the coffin. Then the over door was closed. As the people went back down the stairs, they stopped at the table where the bowls of "knick-knacks" were. Apparently everyone was meant to take an item, which for as long as they had it, would remind them of dad (though most of them I doubt ever met dad, but no matter).

At this point a number of people were yakking back and forth in Thai and I didn't have a clue what was being said. I was then told that I had to take dad's picture and the incense bowl to my home right away. I thought, no problem, I'll make the rounds of my friends in attendance, thank them for showing up, etc, and then we'd all leave and I'd take the picture/bowl home.

Nope. I'm told it had to be done "reo reo", so that dad's spirit would know where to go. A friend took the picture and bowl and got on the back of my motorbike and we roared off. Got back as fast as I could (less than 10 minute round trip), but everyone was already gone except for Paw and a couple friends.

I wasn't impressed. I'm sure a lot of people thought I had just decided to duck out on them.

I had to be back the next morning at 6 am to collect the "ashes". Probably the most disturbing part of the whole process. When Paw and I arrived, the oven door was open and you could feel the heat radiating out of it. Two attendants showed up. One proceeded to scrape the remains to the back of the oven where they were collected into a large (metal) bucket. A large board was placed on the floor in front of the oven, and the remains were dumped into a pile in the middle. One of the attendants then started sifting through the remains with a (looked like a small metal garden hoe actually). Every so often he would scoop up a hunk of something (melted plastic maybe ?) and toss it back into the bucket.

The remains contained large (and small) hunks of bone as well as ashes. I realized after a bit that what the attendant was doing (in addition to removing those hunks of whatever), was arranging the ashes into a shape resembling a human form. Two legs, trunk, two arms and a head. A monk then came up and started chanting. He left and then (to my surprise) we had to pick through the remains and select various bone fragments to place into the (two) small urns we had. When the urns were almost full, it seems that they are supposed to be "topped off" with a piece of the skull. Paw and the attendant couldn't find a suitable sized piece, so the attendant scooped a large fragment to the side and gave it a whack with the hoe, then picked a piece that fit into the urn. We then put the lids on them and set them aside.

A large white, linen sheet had been brought, which was then torn in two. Paw had brought a large bowl of (damp) flower petals/blossoms, which we sprinkled over the rest of the remains. There was also a small bottle of scented liquid (almost smelled like lime juice), which we had to pour into our hands and sprinkle over the remains. The attendant then sprinkled a couple bowls of water over everything (to cool it down, as it was still quite hot). He then proceeded to mix the remains up and scoop them into a pile, which was then scooped onto one half of the folded sheet. The ends were tied together and then the bundle was placed into the other half of the (folded) sheet. The bundle was then placed onto an ordinary metal tray.

We climbed into the attendant's truck, me in the front seat with the tray on my lap, and headed off to another temple (up past the Sanctuary of Truth).

At that temple, the bundle was placed on a fancier tray, and there were a couple other bowls there as well, one which was full of flower petals/blossoms, and the other was meant for us to throw some small money (coins) into. We had to wait around for a bit as the monks were still doing there rounds. Then a monk came over and said something to the attendant. We gathered up the bowls and dad's remains, got back into the truck and followed the monk out to the pier (the monk was driving a Mercedes !). At the far end of the pier, some tables were set up (flowers, Buddha statues, incense bowls, etc). We placed our bowls/trays on the table and the monk did some chanting. Then we (Paw, myself and one friend) had to take the bowl of flowers to the edge of the pier and scatter them over the water. Then we had to take the bundle of dad's remains to the edge. The monk did some more chanting as he untied the sheets, and then the 3 of us had to tip the remains into the ocean.

I don't recall, but I think the small money in the small bowl was also dumped into the ocean. That wrapped up that ceremony. One more to go (for now). The monk commented to my friends that he had seen a larger than normal number of farang funerals recently.

We went back to the original temple, where I had arranged for one of the urns to be stored in one of the small alcoves that run along the inside of the (front wall) of the temple. Only 4 monks for this ceremony and as per usual, we presented them with some water and flowers, as well as what looked like those stacking containers where you can have 4 or 5 (or more) small containers stacked on top of each other, with a carrying handle. Any ways. Some candles and incense were lit. The urn was placed in the alcove, the monks chanted and then it was done. All I had left to do was go home and make sure that I set out some snacks and drinks for dad on the little stand I set up, that has to have his picture, the (other) urn, incense bowl and various other items on it.

There is something that has to be done after one hundred days, but unfortunately I don't think I'll be back in time.

The whole procedure was done in a "fast and furious" manner (relatively speaking), in part due to the delay between when dad died and when we were actually able to start the ceremony, and in part due to the fact I was going to have to be leaving soon to go back to work. It was also quite a bit more involved, drawn out and attended than dad would have liked. All he wanted was just to be "cooked" as quickly and simply as possible (so he told me a few times in the previous years). My friends think he would have been happy to see all the people that had attended the ceremonies. I think he would have grouched and grumbled, especially as he didn't know 98% of them.

I'm also told that, normally, the ceremonies would have been done over a 3 day period. I was also told (after the fact) that it was a lot more expensive than it should have (or could have) been. I guess Paw, who had made most of the arrangements (and wasn't paying of course) wanted a big send-off for the person she had stayed with for the past 2 years. I figured the whole affair was more to give her "face" than it was to help ensure dad's spirit would be happy, but whatever. Money wasn't a concern for me. I was more concerned with doing everything right (best as I could) as far as Thai customs were concerned. If Paw gained some extra "face" and "karma points" out of it, more power to her.

Apparently there is no set "routine" for these ceremonies, and some details will differ from temple to temple, region to region, etc. Some will depend on the family of the deceased (i.e where they are from and what traditions they normally follow), or whoever is arranging the ceremony, might depend on the deceased's status, or on how much is being spent and so on.

Note: Make sure you have a Will done up. In Thailand, if you die without a will, your estate will be handed over to your (legal) relatives. If you do not have any relatives, it gets handed over to the government.

Keep a copy somewhere safe, and leave a copy with your lawyer. If need be, use your lawyer as your point of contact. You may need a Will for your assets in Thailand, and another for your assets in your home country. Make sure your Will(s) stipulate who gets what in each country.

I'm told by my lawyer that she has to submit some paperwork to the courts, and that 45 days after she does so, I will have to make an appearance in court. The judge will review dad's Will and if there are no problems, I will then be allowed to close his bank accounts and dispose of his assets (motorcycles, furniture, etc).

Make a list of who to contact (i.e. family members, the Embassy obviously, as well as Government, Union or Private pension plans, banks, credit card companies, etc.). (Turns out, it seems I have a couple of aunts and cousins I never knew about.)

You should have a list of your assets as well, including any safety deposit boxes (I now have a key to a safety deposit box, sure wish I knew what bank and branch though), any survivor benefits, Veterans Benefits, bank accounts and so on.

Also, if you are Canadian, you may want to "predispose" of some of your assets. I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but apparently in Canada, heirs get whacked with rather large inheritance taxes, especially on things like property. I am going to have to pay some rather large taxes, based on the "assessed" value of dad's house in Canada, regardless of the fact it is nowhere near worth as much as the "assessed" value.

If I had thought of it sooner, dad could have had me listed as a "co-owner" of the property, or even sold it to me at a nominal price years ago. Would have saved a lot of paperwork (and money) in the long run.

Your Embassy can provide some assistance. They'll cancel your passport, make up the Letter of Release for your remains, notify the police in your home country, and maybe provide some information on who to contact (as far as your government is concerned). The Canadian Embassy has a 6 page .pdf file that provides some information regarding how things are handled (in a general manner), and some links to other government sites.

No one really likes to think about these things, especially when they are still healthy and active. Like the old saying goes though, Plan for the Worse, Hope for the Best. Lot easier to plan and arrange things while you have the ability to do so.