Teaching English, Flemish, Tlingit, etc.

[Mobi]

How about all those teachers who teach English taking an English language test?

My guess is that 99% teachers outside of the rich prestige schools in Bangkok, and the Catholic schools would fail miserably.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Mobi

[wolfmanjack]

How about all those teachers who teach Englsih taking an English language test?

My guess is that 99% teachers outside of the rich prestige schools in Bangkok, and the Catholic schools would fail miserably.

Especially if it was a written and oral exam.

[Robert44]

Some friends had asked me to help their children with their english homework, as they could not read english.

When I saw the answers they got from their teachers I can only say that my children are never going to the same school, I also told my friends to talk to the school and find out what qualifications the teachers had.

Answer was that the teachers were European, no one could provide any academic quals just that they had passed basic teaching coarse - so must be able to teach english??

Very sad.

[Soutpeel]

How about all those teachers who teach Englsih taking an English language test?

My guess is that 99% teachers outside of the rich prestige schools in Bangkok, and the Catholic schools would fail miserably.

and oral exam.....

You sure. ??...

[skettios]

How about all those teachers who teach Englsih taking an English language test?

My guess is that 99% teachers outside of the rich prestige schools in Bangkok, and the Catholic schools would fail miserably.

Especially if it was a written and oral exam.

My fiance's friend is the village English teacher. When I met her she said in a loud voice 'Hello, how are you?'. When I answered her she switched to Thai and told my fiance that was all she knew. She later confessed that she had actually looked up that sentence in a book the same day just to make sure she remembered.

When I was in the village I was excited when one of her nephews showed me his notebook. He had written out 'A is for Apple' etc. etc. When I asked him what letter it was, he told me in Thai that he didn't know, he had just copied it off the board. His penmanship was beautiful though!

Don't forget 99% of the English teachers outside of Bangkok aren't farang.

Edited June 24, 2009 by skettios

[noahvail]

From the Google advert on this thread:

*

Teach English in China

Have 1 years experience? Good Pay, Flight, Visa & Insurance Provided.

www.EnglishFirst.com

'nuff said.

[dsprtliving]

From the Google advert on this thread:

*

Teach English in China

Have 1 years experience? Good Pay, Flight, Visa & Insurance Provided.

www.EnglishFirst.com

'nuff said.

agreed...education is an investment. You only get what your willing to put in...

[Mobi]

Has anyone seen the English text books they use at Thai schools?

They are full of spelling mistakes, bad grammar and frequently contain archaic words.

Some of the English exercises for the kids are are a disgrace and are an abortion of the English language.

And others contain words that are only used by university students when writing a PHD thesis.

And as none of the teachers have even a basic knowledge of Englsih, the vicious circle is perpetuated.

The ruling elite know very well that the English standard in Thai schools is pretty abysmal, but they just don't care. The more ignorant the general populace is, the better for them. Without a working knowledge of Englsih, they cannot read foreign books, magazines and newspapers, and cannot learn on the internet what is going on in the outside world, and are more likely to believe the lies told to them by the government and believe that everything bad that happens here is the fault of foreigners.

The kids in Cambodia speak much better English than kids who go to regular schools (i.e not privileged schools) in Thailand, and Cambodia is one of the poorest countries in the world. One of the reasons is that there are no Cambodian text books, so they have to read English before they can even start to learn.

In Thailand, they have to learn from BS books in Thai that lie about Thai history, teach very little, and are written by Thais, most of whom are unqualified for the task.

Now bash me. This is one of my pet beefs.

And I'm not bashing the Thais - I'm bashing the corrupt few who still control this country and its people.

[mijan24]

Some friends had asked me to help their children with their english homework, as they could not read english.

When I saw the answers they got from their teachers I can only say that my children are never going to the same school, I also told my friends to talk to the school and find out what qualifications the teachers had.

Answer was that the teachers were European, no one could provide any academic quals just that they had passed basic teaching coarse - so must be able to teach english??

Very sad.

Agreed it is a problem here in Thailand and of course with every question there must be an answer - What is the answer?

A lot of Thai people think farangs are very coarse and in a lot of cases they are correct, but of course that is not always correct it often relvoves around our particular variant of the English language.

[DP25]

My fiance's friend is the village English teacher. When I met her she said in a loud voice 'Hello, how are you?'. When I answered her she switched to Thai and told my fiance that was all she knew. She later confessed that she had actually looked up that sentence in a book the same day just to make sure she remembered.

When I was in the village I was excited when one of her nephews showed me his notebook. He had written out 'A is for Apple' etc. etc. When I asked him what letter it was, he told me in Thai that he didn't know, he had just copied it off the board. His penmanship was beautiful though!

Don't forget 99% of the English teachers outside of Bangkok aren't farang.

Completely spot on, that level of English ability is very common among Thai English teachers, especially outside of Bangkok. I think a lot of the people that are constantly bashing farang English teachers for whatever reason have never actually spoken to a Thai English teacher. They can't even have a simple conversation, or read a children's book like Green Eggs and Ham. It's like having a math teacher who can't add 2+2.

[Valentine]

I met a girl who was working in a shop in Central Festival, Phuket & was pleasantly surprised at how well she spoke English. During the ensuing conversation it transpired she was working part time while studying English language at Rajabhat University. Her ambition is to return to her village in Chiang Rai to teach English to those who have no access to such teaching.

Either she is quite gifted in language skills &/or there is a good English teaching prgramme at said university. It is also refreshing to meet a young lady who apparently wants to genuinely help her fellow villagers. Wouldn't it be wonderful if politicians had the same attitude. Hopefully she will be an inspiration to others.

[cognos]

How about all those teachers who teach English taking an English language test?

My guess is that 99% teachers outside of the rich prestige schools in Bangkok, and the Catholic schools would fail miserably.

99% may be high..but I get your drift Mobi.. 1.almost any "Dick" (or tom or harry) can teach english in LOS. An old friend from school (did not even graduate from high school) recently announced..." We( his farang gf) are going to go teach English in Thailand." 2..on the other hand.. you may hear native thai (english teachers) in the country sometimes say things like this to their students.."you no listen na? You need listen me na"??

[kurnell]

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

It seems strange that we have this constant whining about the fact that those dratted Thais can't speak ENGLISH. Why shouldn't they be fluent in French or Italian or Spanish?

Are you serious?

[tartempion]

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

Can you explain why most of the Dutch speak ALSO English and German.

I guess it was handy to know German when the latter invaded The Netherlands for 5 years, so the Germans did not need to learn Dutch dealing with their Dutch slaves?

Oh, and why do most Luxemburgers speak fluently French, German and English on top of their in-intelligent Letseburgish which no one understands but themselves, 10% even speak Portuguese

When I lived in Luxemburg speaking Letseburgish was all I needed.Why ever learn some other language?

Edited June 24, 2009 by tartempion

[slapout]

This question has been answered many times. Aircraft controllers, ocean shipping communication, transfer of high level technology, etc are normally mentioned to cover the minority you mentioned. The rest need basic English language skills so they can participate on TV.

[Credo]

This has to do with the state of the country in general and in education in particular. First, if you are going to force people to teach a subject which they are not qualified to teach, don't complain. If you don't like it, then start training them.

They did the same with English years back. People were just assigned to teach English, even though they knew nothing about the language. I think this was when they first lowered the grade level from G. 6 to G. 1 (I think, or maybe G. 3), for starting English instruction.

[selftaopath]

How about all those teachers who teach English taking an English language test?

My guess is that 99% teachers outside of the rich prestige schools in Bangkok, and the Catholic schools would fail miserably.

But this is Thailand where "looking good" i.e. saving face rules. So students don't fail and likewise these teachers must not fail because face is ALWAYS involved here in LOS (Lack of Sanctions). So more of the same in all areas of Thai society?

[Mobi]

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

It seems strange that we have this constant whining about the fact that those dratted Thais can't speak ENGLISH. Why shouldn't they be fluent in French or Italian or Spanish?

Words fail me, or are you trolling?

In the words of the famous J Mc - "You can't be serious!!!"

Ask the citizens of nearly every Asian, if not every Asian country, why they learn English - from Cambodia, to Vietnam to China, to Japan to Korea to wherever you care to name.

At one time, The Malaysians were so concerned that that they were losing their competitive business edge that they passed a law forcing schools to teach all science subjects in English.

What leading edge text books on science, philosophy, medicine, literature, the arts etc etc are written in the Thai language?

How much can be learned about what goes on out there in the wide world by surfing the net without a working knowledge of English?

It is a fact of life that English is the major international language for virtually all things these days, and if a country wishes it's populace to be properly educated and to contribute and compete in the international community, then a knowledge of English is a pre requisite. Not Italian, Spanish or French, much to the chagrin of my French brothers.

Go to Pnom Penh and you will be astounded by the amount of good quality English that is spoken by the ordinary people - from Tuk Tuk drivers, to labourers, to beggars, to shop assistants etc, and you will realise how far Thailand has slipped in the world community. I can actually hold an intelligent conversation with Cambodian men in English, that doesn't revolve around eating, drinking & whoring - something difficult to achieve in LOS.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Mobi

[Mobi]

Once again, this topic is about the teachers teaching THAI language. NOT ENGLISH.

I hate to shout, but I think this is an important point.

So a little digression is not permitted?

It used to be.. within reason.. and we are still talking about Thai schools, the standard of Thai teaching.. just a different language.

It's all inter-related - the abysmal lack of good schools and good teaching practises and appropriate qualifications.

Where's the harm in that?

Or shall I start a new topic?

[Mobi]

Well my posts only constitute a little digression - don't know about the others

Those who want to stick to the 'pure' matter of the topic are welcome to do so. Whose stopping them?

Whatever happened to the cut and thrust of TV threads of old?

Seems like everyone is losing their sense of proportion here

It's only an online debate about Thai schools - we're not discussing the end of the world. (as we know it... Jim)

Edited June 25, 2009 by Mobi

[swifty5x5]

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

It seems strange that we have this constant whining about the fact that those dratted Thais can't speak ENGLISH. Why shouldn't they be fluent in French or Italian or Spanish?

English is spoken around the world for buisness, airlines ect. ect. Spainish might get you somewhere but french and Itlian will not.

[G54]

Has anyone seen the English text books they use at Thai schools?

They are full of spelling mistakes, bad grammar and frequently contain archaic words.

Some of the English exercises for the kids are are a disgrace and are an abortion of the English language.

And others contain words that are only used by university students when writing a PHD thesis.

And as none of the teachers have even a basic knowledge of Englsih, the vicious circle is perpetuated.

The ruling elite know very well that the English standard in Thai schools is pretty abysmal, but they just don't care. The more ignorant the general populace is, the better for them. Without a working knowledge of Englsih, they cannot read foreign books, magazines and newspapers, and cannot learn on the internet what is going on in the outside world, and are more likely to believe the lies told to them by the government and believe that everything bad that happens here is the fault of foreigners.

The kids in Cambodia speak much better English than kids who go to regular schools (i.e not privileged schools) in Thailand, and Cambodia is one of the poorest countries in the world. One of the reasons is that there are no Cambodian text books, so they have to read English before they can even start to learn.

In Thailand, they have to learn from BS books in Thai that lie about Thai history, teach very little, and are written by Thais, most of whom are unqualified for the task.

Now bash me. This is one of my pet beefs.

And I'm not bashing the Thais - I'm bashing the corrupt few who still control this country and its people.

I had that with a g/f who failed her English Exam 3 times. When I saw the questions and the answers that were given to the questions I was baffled many times and had to correct the questions and answers too.

Next time around when she took the exam she got 77% and passed. Pleased as punch she was able to move onto a computer course. Last I heard she had got herself a better job working in an office of a good company and with better pay.

It is a great shame that the books they are using are not up to standard in the first place. How many other students fail because of this? Surely it would be a problem that is easy enough to rectify?

[henryalleman]

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

Can you explain why most of the Dutch speak ALSO English and German.

I guess it was handy to know German when the latter invaded The Netherlands for 5 years, so the Germans did not need to learn Dutch dealing with their Dutch slaves?

Oh, and why do most Luxemburgers speak fluently French, German and English on top of their in-intelligent Letseburgish which no one understands but themselves, 10% even speak Portuguese

When I lived in Luxemburg speaking Letseburgish was all I needed.Why ever learn some other language?

In Flanders and I presume also in Holland we learn 3 foreign languages in High School French, English and German; Why? Simply because we are small countries who depend on foreign trade and our main business partners are our neighbouring countries Germany, France and the UK.. Also many people attending evening schools to learn an additional language, Spanish, Italian, Russian and many others, because in our country you can't find a decent job if you are not speaking at least 2 or 3 foreign languages.

In the first 2 grades of high school its mandatory that you learn Latin, because its impossible to study for lawyer or doctor if you have no knowledge of Latin in my country. Also study Latin and the Roman philosophers is given you an more open view on the world. That's why the curriculum Latin,ancient Greek, Mathematic, in High school attracts the most intelligent students.

And for you childish remar about the German language, I can only tell you that german is the most speken foreign language in Eastern Europe.

And your remark

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

Oh, and why do most Luxemburgers speak fluently French, German and English on top of their in-intelligent Letseburgish which no one understands but themselves, 10% even speak Portuguese

is so idiotic that's its not even worth answering

[endure]

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

It seems strange that we have this constant whining about the fact that those dratted Thais can't speak ENGLISH. Why shouldn't they be fluent in French or Italian or Spanish?

Words fail me, or are you trolling?

In the words of the famous J Mc - "You can't be serious!!!"

Ask the citizens of nearly every Asian, if not every Asian country, why they learn English - from Cambodia, to Vietnam to China, to Japan to Korea to wherever you care to name.

At one time, The Malaysians were so concerned that that they were losing their competitive business edge that they passed a law forcing schools to teach all science subjects in English.

What leading edge text books on science, philosophy, medicine, literature, the arts etc etc are written in the Thai language?

How much can be learned about what goes on out there in the wide world by surfing the net without a working knowledge of English?

It is a fact of life that English is the major international language for virtually all things these days, and if a country wishes it's populace to be properly educated and to contribute and compete in the international community, then a knowledge of English is a pre requisite. Not Italian, Spanish or French, much to the chagrin of my French brothers.

Go to Pnom Penh and you will be astounded by the amount of good quality English that is spoken by the ordinary people - from Tuk Tuk drivers, to labourers, to beggars, to shop assistants etc, and you will realise how far Thailand has slipped in the world community. I can actually hold an intelligent conversation with Cambodian men in English, that doesn't revolve around eating, drinking & whoring - something difficult to achieve in LOS.

As someone who has chosen to live in Thailand, a country that hasn't had the 'benefit' of being colonised by the west and thus has never been obliged to converse in a European language, are you able to hold an intelligent conversation in Thai, the native language of the country you live in? If not, don't you think it's slightly hypocritical to complain that a minimum wage cabbie with more than likely only 6 years education isn't able to converse fluently in the language of a country that he will never ever be able to afford to visit? Don't you think it's a bit of cultural imperialism requiring others to converse in your language because you can't converse in theirs?

[strawberry]

I'm not at all imprest with the teachingskills of the teachers I have experienced. The thing that seems to be missing is parents and teachers assoc. My opinion of thai teachers is that they are above themselfs and there is a great need for the P&T assoc.

Yesterday afternoon she comes home with a speech she has to give today with 5 syllable words goes into a panic because she has not heard the words before. This was defeating for her and I had to spend hours with her to build her up again.

Many times I have been asked to teach and have done some volunteer work with thai teachers at her schools. I won't take on a teaching job because I believe that teaching in an art and I don't have it. But then again my observations are that most of the thai teachers don't have the art either.

Then there is the farangs who need a job go to BKK for a couple of weeks get a certificate and come back to pose as teachers of english.

Incidentally my daughters speach for today is ''The importance of learning English''

[bungy007]

I met a girl who was working in a shop in Central Festival, Phuket & was pleasantly surprised at how well she spoke English. During the ensuing conversation it transpired she was working part time while studying English language at Rajabhat University. Her ambition is to return to her village in Chiang Rai to teach English to those who have no access to such teaching.

Either she is quite gifted in language skills &/or there is a good English teaching prgramme at said university. It is also refreshing to meet a young lady who apparently wants to genuinely help her fellow villagers. Wouldn't it be wonderful if politicians had the same attitude. Hopefully she will be an inspiration to others.

I have met many well spoken Thai university undergrads with very impressive English. They are out there but they represent the young generation who have grown up with English media surrounding them. The problem lies with the 'old guard' who belong to the established older generation. They cannot be seen to loose face to the young so they suppress them to the detriment of Thai education.

[seri thai]

Has anyone seen the English text books they use at Thai schools?

They are full of spelling mistakes, bad grammar and frequently contain archaic words.

Some of the English exercises for the kids are are a disgrace and are an abortion of the English language.

And others contain words that are only used by university students when writing a PHD thesis.

And as none of the teachers have even a basic knowledge of Englsih, the vicious circle is perpetuated.

The ruling elite know very well that the English standard in Thai schools is pretty abysmal, but they just don't care. The more ignorant the general populace is, the better for them. Without a working knowledge of Englsih, they cannot read foreign books, magazines and newspapers, and cannot learn on the internet what is going on in the outside world, and are more likely to believe the lies told to them by the government and believe that everything bad that happens here is the fault of foreigners.

The kids in Cambodia speak much better English than kids who go to regular schools (i.e not privileged schools) in Thailand, and Cambodia is one of the poorest countries in the world. One of the reasons is that there are no Cambodian text books, so they have to read English before they can even start to learn.

In Thailand, they have to learn from BS books in Thai that lie about Thai history, teach very little, and are written by Thais, most of whom are unqualified for the task.

Now bash me. This is one of my pet beefs.

And I'm not bashing the Thais - I'm bashing the corrupt few who still control this country and its people.

Seconded, well said that man.

What happened to King Rama IV's ideals of bringing science and modernity to the nation 140 years ago? The archaic mish-mash that passes for second-language education in Thailand is not only a national disgrace but an out and out conspiracy. The cost of the Cold/Vietnam war to Thailand is the same as WWII to Gt Britain. Win the war but lose the peace.

[Old Man River]

Has anyone seen the English text books they use at Thai schools?

They are full of spelling mistakes, bad grammar and frequently contain archaic words.

Some of the English exercises for the kids are are a disgrace and are an abortion of the English language.

And others contain words that are only used by university students when writing a PHD thesis.

And as none of the teachers have even a basic knowledge of Englsih, the vicious circle is perpetuated.

The ruling elite know very well that the English standard in Thai schools is pretty abysmal, but they just don't care. The more ignorant the general populace is, the better for them. Without a working knowledge of Englsih, they cannot read foreign books, magazines and newspapers, and cannot learn on the internet what is going on in the outside world, and are more likely to believe the lies told to them by the government and believe that everything bad that happens here is the fault of foreigners.

Now bash me. This is one of my pet beefs.

Mobi, I am not going to overgeneralize and say that your thoughts are way off base because that is an argument I couldn't defend. However, there are attempts by some of the "ruling elite" to change this. I do know that some of the local charitable organizations (Rotary etc.) have been working with Thammasart University and corporate sponsors to support training programs in English for Thai teachers who teach English in the provinces. In addition, there is follow up with teachers who previously attended the courses.

I know, you might say it is a drop in the bucket, but it is a start and has been going on for several years and it will continue, as some of the people working in this program are very much part of the ruling elite. The hope, of course, is for the government to get involved, but since we can't keep a government in place for more than a year, that doesn't appear likely.

[edgarfriendly]

a poorly educated teacher with a lotta reputation is the norm

i was over-ruled by a head of english department when i asked the students if they were ready, she jumped in front of me and shouted to not listen to the farang, its pronounced reedy...

id been there a week.

things didnt improve, although they now have split my salary between 2 much better phillipino teachers.

ef

when u are dealing with generations of ego, its an effort, especially when the parents arent listening.

sorry, i loved my job, but the politics is the same from bottom to top.

now i study.

Edited for spilling...7/10

Edited June 26, 2009 by edgarfriendly

[Mobi]

Can someone explain to me why any but a small minority of 60 million Thais should be required to speak English in a country whose primary language is THAI THAI THAI??? other than for the convenience of expat English speakers?

It seems strange that we have this constant whining about the fact that those dratted Thais can't speak ENGLISH. Why shouldn't they be fluent in French or Italian or Spanish?

Words fail me, or are you trolling?

In the words of the famous J Mc - "You can't be serious!!!"

Ask the citizens of nearly every Asian, if not every Asian country, why they learn English - from Cambodia, to Vietnam to China, to Japan to Korea to wherever you care to name.

At one time, The Malaysians were so concerned that that they were losing their competitive business edge that they passed a law forcing schools to teach all science subjects in English.

What leading edge text books on science, philosophy, medicine, literature, the arts etc etc are written in the Thai language?

How much can be learned about what goes on out there in the wide world by surfing the net without a working knowledge of English?

It is a fact of life that English is the major international language for virtually all things these days, and if a country wishes it's populace to be properly educated and to contribute and compete in the international community, then a knowledge of English is a pre requisite. Not Italian, Spanish or French, much to the chagrin of my French brothers.

Go to Pnom Penh and you will be astounded by the amount of good quality English that is spoken by the ordinary people - from Tuk Tuk drivers, to labourers, to beggars, to shop assistants etc, and you will realise how far Thailand has slipped in the world community. I can actually hold an intelligent conversation with Cambodian men in English, that doesn't revolve around eating, drinking & whoring - something difficult to achieve in LOS.

As someone who has chosen to live in Thailand, a country that hasn't had the 'benefit' of being colonised by the west and thus has never been obliged to converse in a European language, are you able to hold an intelligent conversation in Thai, the native language of the country you live in? If not, don't you think it's slightly hypocritical to complain that a minimum wage cabbie with more than likely only 6 years education isn't able to converse fluently in the language of a country that he will never ever be able to afford to visit? Don't you think it's a bit of cultural imperialism requiring others to converse in your language because you can't converse in theirs?

1. Yes I can hold an intelligent conversation in Thai. In fact where I live, a mere 20kms East of Pattaya, there is hardly anyone in my village or the surrounding area who speaks a word of English, including my maids and gardener, and all of my wife's family, so I would have a pretty miserable and lonely existence if I didn't speak Thai.

2. You talk a lot of garbage - and you know it. Show me where I complained that the Thai cabbies don't speak English? It doesn't bother me, I can speak to them in Thai. I simply made an observation that one of the poorest countries in the world - Cambodia - has tuk tuk drivers who speak wonderful English - along with a great number of the other young folk in that country. And why do they speak English - along with many of natives of other countries in this region? Because whether we like it or not, colonial sins of the past not withstanding, English is the international language of communication. And if you want to get on in this global community, English is a pre-requisite.

Even a fool knows that, but clearly not the estimable honorary Endure.