British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists

[loong]

There are a couple of items of evidence which would strengthen King Power's position:

- independent airport surveillance video showing the wallet being dumped in the rubbish bin by the accused

- fingerprints of Mr. Ingram on the recovered wallet as it was supposedly he who dumped it

Firstly, the KP video is not conclusive and could have been fabricated. It is considerable more difficult to fabricate a surveillance video of a public area and such video is not the property of KP. It is possible that fixed cameras do not show the wallet being dumped which could legitimately explain why there is no footage available. I have the impression that the arresting officers observed the dumping of the wallet. If this is the case then why did they not video the incident themselves. Easy enough.

Secondly, Mr. Ingram does not handle the wallet in KP, only the woman does according to the KP video. If he did indeed dump the wallet in the rubbish then his fingerprints should be on it which would be conclusive evidence of guilt. No mention of this from KP or the police. As the couple were held in detention for several days in a legitimate crime the police would check for the accused fingerprints as basic procedure in preparation for court evidence, unless, of course, it was a scam from the outset and there were no fingerprints to begin with................................

The statement from KP (statement can only be what the security staff have told them) doesn't state that the wallet was dumped by the man. Only that the wallet was found in a bin outside a toilet visited by the man. Strange that they were following him and yet did not actually observe him dispose of anything in the bin!

The big guns at at KP are obviously not happy about this case and would have questioned and taken statements from the security staff involved. The security staff have had time to collude and frame the best statement to show that they had just cause. They would have to be careful about any blatant lies as there is always the chance that other video may be available to catch them out.

What do we have as their evidence?

A sharp eyed member of staff noticing that a wallet is missing - but not sharp eyed enough to notice suspicious actions by 2 people in a nearly empty shop unit.

A video of a woman possibly stealing the wallet, but for some reason the video stops short of her actually leaving the shop. The video that we have seen does not show any facial features at all, so maybe they are the couple detained - maybe not.

A couple resembling the people in the video were observed at a restaurant. They had different outer clothes to those in the video. Why no mention that the inner clothes were the same?

The security contacted the tourist police to search the woman. Why didn't they contact the police that have authority in the airport? If they considered that the 2 were working together, why did they not detain both?

The woman was found not to have the wallet and they were let go.

The wallet was conveniently found in a bin. When? Who by? The suspect was not observed putting anything into the bin. Fingerprints?

The couple were then arrested as they went to board the plane.

This pathetic statement leaves too many questions unanswered.

[loong]

I have been wondering where exactly was the toilet, was it in the departure lounge or was it near the restaurant Mr.Ingram was supposed to have run from upon seeing the security approach Xi Lin?

Please don't use the word run. The statement said he walked. Some people will read your post and immediately consider that only a guilty person runs.

He walked to the toilet.

[Hawk]

By Jonathan Head

BBC News, Bangkok

They had been browsing in the duty free shop at the airport, and were later approached by security guards, who twice asked to search their bags.

They were told a wallet had gone missing, and that Ms Lin had been seen on a security camera taking it out of the shop.

The company that owns the duty free shop, King Power, has since put the CCTV video on its website, which does appear to show her putting something in her bag. However the security guards found no wallet on either of them.

Despite that, they were both taken from the departure gate, back through immigration, and held in an airport police office. That is when their ordeal started to become frightening.

"We were questioned in separate rooms," Mr Ingram said. "We felt really intimidated. They went through our bags and demanded that we tell them where the wallet was."

They were searched twice, but no wallet was found. King Power said that security said that they found the wallet in a bin in the toilet that Mr.Ingram was supposed to have gone into. So why did the police search their bags and then demand to know where the wallet was, if they already knew where it was? And they were arrested together, and not sitting at separate tables. There are no tables in the departure lounges.

King Power, the security and the tourist police are all lying.

[bungy007]

May I ask if you are a Thai law expert without causing offence? I ask because you say held for months. The Ozzie beermat girl wasn't held for months was she?

Call it my need to know smile.gif .

This case was fast forwarded because of the international uproar it caused. If her story had never been reported, she'd probably still be stuck in Thailand awaiting a court hearing.

Cheers 'uncle', but you say 'probably'. I would like to know what happens if you just say no to these creatures and demand proper legal process while contacting your embassy, who must (should?) act. Plus demanding they contact the press to get immediate coverage. Big news this stuff now, internationally. Thai extortionists threatening tourists. There's such a thing as going too far and these 'protecters and servers' have done that IMO.

Your embassy is going to tell you to get f***ed, because they cant get involved anyway for any reason even if there is corruption which is pretty much what they did with the couple. There is NO proper legal process by western standards in Thailand, so the idea here is to listen to the people who have lived here a long time and know the score and stay out of trouble. There is a sucker born every minute.....dont be one of them. I personally don't think that I need to avoid KP to stay out of any scam that may or may not be happening, and neither should you or especially any tourist walking the straight. Don't be scared... no one is going to scam you in Thailand unless you do something like that couple did. There were no actors...that was them and they did what they did and it was caught on video. They probably initiated the payoff but then it backfired to the tune of 8 large bills. After they got the letter of innocence they could say what they want. Maybe she was just sticking her hand in her purse because she likes the way it feels, it was still a poor decision and they payed for it. It is not going too far it is just going the way it goes in Thailand and now its out and we have a circus on our hands.

The first half is certainly spot on for the British Embassy - you will get no help from them. They are not interested in you or your problems as their behaviour over this and many other scams and murders has proven. Of course, the poster is allowed his opinion and if he feels that he can still ratify KP's outrageous and higly illegal activities and continue to finance their operation then that is his choice; Just as China continues to fund Burma

However, I cannot accept his point that you shouldn't feel scared to shop in their outlets or that nobody in Thailand is going to scam you unless they believe you have broken a law. That is just an out and out falsehood which may very well lead you into deep trouble if not an early demise. Thailand is not Butlins/Ibetha/Cony Island/Florida Keys/The Gold Coast/Yakoska or Vancouver, it is a third world country staring into the abyss on many levels -be they economically, politically or constitutionally.

The internet well documents the many frauds and scams awaiting tourists in Thailand - it is also a deadly dangerous country to travel in by road. Do not visit Thailand lightly as this really is a country that lives by the law of the jungle. I strongly suspect that the poster does not live in Thailand and if he does he is extremely fresh off the boat and deep in the 'honeymoon period' or he is on a repeated two week holiday. Ignore his advice and if you don't be prepared to accept the consequences of being ill-prepared when in Thailand

Edited July 23, 2009 by bungy007

[Hawk]

I have been wondering where exactly was the toilet, was it in the departure lounge or was it near the restaurant Mr.Ingram was supposed to have run from upon seeing the security approach Xi Lin?

Please don't use the word run. The statement said he walked. Some people will read your post and immediately consider that only a guilty person runs.

He walked to the toilet.

Yes, my mistake, the security did indeed say that he was walking.

He was supposedly seen walking to a toilet by the security but did he in fact go anywhere near a toilet?

Edited July 23, 2009 by Hawk

[beerchang]

Cheers Bow (are you from Bow? Me mum was born within the the sound of the bells.) and bungy. Didn't know the embassy was so useless.

I agree with you bungy that you should be at least wary when in the airport/Thailand. I've been here 7 years and am lucky to have never been scammed (well, apart from one now disowned family member who got 15,00 of me bahts! when I was new to Thailand) plus I speak Thai. Not easy to scam someone who speaks the lingo, however, how many tourists do? Also, what is wrong with roads here? As long as you stop at green lights you're pretty safe!

(Excuse the delay in posting, everytime I clicked 'Add reply' it would't upload so now done a 'fast reply').

[bowbells]

I'd like to pose a question to those who may have knowledge regarding prosecuting shoplifters (any country):

If the accused did not have the 'stolen' item on them when they were searched and the cctv footage doesn't show them exiting the shop then where is the evidence?

It has to do with the fact that the man was seen in the video with the lady when she put something in her bag while looking at the same merchandise that went missing. The CCTV tape does not need to show her leaving the shop since it is understood that at some point she did leave the shop and it was after the time she was seen putting something in her bag. If and when the man was apprehended, the stolen merchandise was found discarded in his immediate vicinity and he fit the description, then he could be taken into custody as a suspected accomplice to a theft. The prosecution has a case since there would be logical probable cause for the man to have received the stolen merchandise from the woman to dispose of and then discard since he was seen with her in the tape looking at her put something in her bag. That is not to say if they had received a fair trial with a good lawyer that they would not have been able to prove that it was not them in the tape most importantly through an alibi. It should not be hard show where the couple was at the time of the tape if they were not there. Evidence related to the clothes and physical attributes of the people in the video would be crucial. That is western law and it does exist here in Thailand if the case ever gets that far. The problem is that given the chance, most people involved in this type of situation outside of their country usually begin or entertain the dialogue which leads to a bribe because they are freaking out, either because they are guilty or they are innocent but very scared. This makes sense because noone really trusts any legal system outside of their own country.

Edited July 23, 2009 by bowbells

[beerchang]

My post #849. Lost 15,000 bht not 15!

[brahmburgers]

This scenario sounds like the recent one where the young Swedish couple were forced to admit guilt - regarding supposed theft of T-shirts from a vendor's stall - at some tourist city, not the airport. Much of the same methods of intense coersion and threats come in to play.

When hearing details of that case, and of this one with KP, the pattern appears to be forced payment coupled with harsh threats of imminent incarceration, and higher fines if a confession is not made immediately.

Thailand is a country where fines for serious offenses (involving Thais) usually run about Bt.20,000. So to insist upon (an immediate payment to a private account) of Bt.400,000 is extortion plain and simple, regardless of whether the Brit couple were guilty.

[hughben]

Ceylon Tony must have scarpered.

If they catch him, he will be paraded as Public Enemy No.1 and the book will be thrown at him.

Then they'll tell us the scams are finally over.

By doing that, they'll also be pissing on our shoes and telling us it's raining.

[zakk9]

One variety of this scam is apparently as follows:

If you buy two or more items at one of the shops, and pay by credit card, they charge you for all of the items minus one. Since many people don't check the sums before they sign, it goes by unnoticed. After you have left the area, you are stopped by security and taken to the police, accused of steeling the item that you haven't been charged for.

From what I heard last night, this has been going on fore a while, and I was told that there were more than 100 cases only in April, but I obviously can't verify that number.

[hughben]

^ That could be the case with the Irish scientist who was arrested.

[nikster]

I don't find my statement the least bit naive but rather the most sensible option.

I have to say I think loose accusation is rife on forums like this and would prefer posters were tighter with their facts,as sloppiness weakens the argument in general. Kingpower may have all sorts of loose business practices. To suggest, when talking about kidnapping that "that's the sort of company kingpower is" is however to my mind slanderous and beyond the pale and will not initiate an appropriate response.

John

Loose accusations. It doesn't take a genius to see that KP is a fishy company. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....

I doubt that abductions are part of their bottom line - that wouldn't make any sense business-wise. But I believe the story and that means some KP employees are most definitely involved in the scam.

If KP were a reputable company, and getting sucked into some scam perpetrated by police it would be very easy for them to employ their own shop security to deal with this. The security could then hand over tough cases to police and let innocent people go. The point though is that they are not.

Anyway - I am a bit surprised that the prime minister or some other higher up isn't calling the airport right now and stopping this.

[salty]

One variety of this scam is apparently as follows:

If you buy two or more items at one of the shops, and pay by credit card, they charge you for all of the items minus one. Since many people don't check the sums before they sign, it goes by unnoticed. After you have left the area, you are stopped by security and taken to the police, accused of steeling the item that you haven't been charged for.

From what I heard last night, this has been going on fore a while, and I was told that there were more than 100 cases only in April, but I obviously can't verify that number.

It would not surprise me in the slighest. I cannot escape the feeling that some Duty Free employees are in on this scam.

^ That could be the case with the Irish scientist who was arrested.

It is very difficult to believe that this lady came all the way to Thailand for a conference and decided to shoplift an eyeliner worth about 18 Euro when leaving.

[spidermike007]

This is fascinating stuff. The aspect that is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's

staggering level of corruption. Malaysia has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials,

ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission

has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And

where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who are coming up with expensive schemes to line their

pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the Police Captain in charge of the airport

still in his position? Does anyone really think there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting

only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off

the hook? Is that all it takes?

[noahvail]

There are no 'consular officials' at the 'Foreign Office'. Consular officials are based at Uk Embassies/ Consulates - on this occasion the UK Embassy in Bangkok. It's also true that the UK (or any other) Embassy cannot interfere with the host country's legal system. The days of Palmerston and gunboat diplomacy are long gone.

That is, of course, true. However, remember the posts berating consular staff for all those parties? That's when "a quiet word" is had with someone who can truly help. It's a good place for the exchange of information, and sometimes follow-up is determined very quickly thereafter. And sometimes, not at all...

[slapout]

spidermike; you ask questions about King Power and Newin, the police captain in charge at airport and CEO of King Power regarding the topic of corruption? There has been innuendo about the connection of KP and Newin on TV, if true, its just another example of the trait becoming so associated with Thailand, by the rest of the world. The CEO and police connection may be disputed by both of the individuals as is normal procedure. After much contemplation I suggest there is so much corruption in Thailand due to so many of the Thai politicians/businessmen have so little trust of their peers and doing business with same that corruption/stealing is the only way they can make a profit. Difficult to do business with someone when you are looking behind you to make sure they do not stab you in the back.

[steveromagnino]

spidermike; you ask questions about King Power and Newin, the police captain in charge at airport and CEO of King Power regarding the topic of corruption? There has been innuendo about the connection of KP and Newin on TV, if true, its just another example of the trait becoming so associated with Thailand, by the rest of the world. The CEO and police connection may be disputed by both of the individuals as is normal procedure. After much contemplation I suggest there is so much corruption in Thailand due to so many of the Thai politicians/businessmen have so little trust of their peers and doing business with same that corruption/stealing is the only way they can make a profit. Difficult to do business with someone when you are looking behind you to make sure they do not stab you in the back.

King Power are widely rumoured to have been granted the monopoly AGAIN at the airport thanks to Thaksin who was in charge at the time.

During the coup period, the likelihood was that it would be removed from them and there was quite a lot of fighting between the aot and KP, however once the election kicked in, KP were back and fine since TRT 2 were in power.

At some point during the reshuffle and with the airport occupation etc, KP broke ranks and probably did some deal with the coalition party in terms of some sort of benefit in return for something, which is why there was the protests from the red shirts outside, of all the places they could go in Bangkok, KP Rangnam.

KP do understand how getting monopolies at the airport works and spent a lot of their money to build the Rangnam centre and others thinking they would be able to recoup the probably massive investment paid to TRT people back then alledgedly; subsequently they may have had to pay again, but at least, well you can't really put a price on the advantages of being the only game in town.

They sell on par per visitor with many other duty free establishments per sqm at other major airports according to some people's real numbers ....as with many of the other deals done at the airport in construction, exclusive rights etc, nothing was given away for free; somehow someone had to pay each time for the privelege but it is the AOT and us the tax payer that subsidises all those deals.

In unrelated matters, it sure is nice to see that Thaksin and some of his cohorts aren't short of a bob these days. I'd hate to think that they starved in building this monolithe.

[GungaDin]

861 posts, & I've read every one of them.

Right!........That's it....... I'll never buy a packet of KP nuts as long as I'm in Thailand, ever, ever, ever.

Bloody scallywags!

[hkt83100]

I've had my own headache with Thailand: My flight on day 30 was scheduled to leave at 11:40PM. The quota-hungry petty bureaucrats said, "You'll still be in our airspace after 12AM! You have to pay the fine for overstaying!"

This is quite incredible, even if it was true "your friend" would still be on day one of his overstay, and day one is free unless it is the first of more than one days.

[FairwayJack]

Just got back from Hong Kong where 3 friends in 3 separate instances started up our conversations with, "what's happening in Thailand with the shoplifting airport scam ?? "

The crazy thing about this situation is that I am now going from Thailand to HK to visit them...for many years it was the other way around. They all refuse to come to Thailand anymore.

[animatic]

I've had my own headache with Thailand: My flight on day 30 was scheduled to leave at 11:40PM. The quota-hungry petty bureaucrats said, "You'll still be in our airspace after 12AM! You have to pay the fine for overstaying!"

This is quite incredible, even if it was true "your friend" would still be on day one of his overstay, and day one is free unless it is the first of more than one days.

By law once you have entered the post Thailand immigration gate,

and you are stamped as exited you are NOT in Thailand.

This is total illegal bullshite about being still in Thai airspace.

If you had called him on it, he would have backed down likely.

Edited July 29, 2009 by animatic

[GungaDin]

^^^ ^^^

Not disagreeing with you, but I too, always thought that "air-side" was no-man's land.

So, how come cops can pull a villain off an aircraft even after "chocks away"?

[andyww]

Cheers Bow (are you from Bow? Me mum was born within the the sound of the bells.)

Er Bow Bells are located in Bow Church in Cheapside which is nowhere near Bow.

Anyway enough pedantry.

What seems to have been overlooked here is that in the case of the couple and the wallet, the guy practically admitted to the accusation being genuine because he told the reporters that the scam started at the Police Station, not the airport.

Also the Irish lady has admitted to not paying for the lipstick and taking it out of the store, albeit unintentionally.

The outrageous extortions were solely down to the events after the arrest. There is not much solid evidence that KP is involved.

[Thai at Heart]

Hiding in the Times UK travel section

How to avoid the travel scammers

What do you do if you get caught out by a shifty policeman? Or a dodgy taxi driver? Or a stripping pickpocket?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/yo...icle6726470.ece

[Maejo Man]

Poetic justice?

The AoT board yesterday also approved a management plan to collect an extra 989 million baht in rent from the King Power group, which runs duty free shops at the airport. AoT demanded the extra rent after Suvarnabhumi airport found King Power's duty free outlets took up more retail space than stated in its contract with AoT.

Today's Post

[animatic]

spidermike; you ask questions about King Power and Newin, the police captain in charge at airport and CEO of King Power regarding the topic of corruption? There has been innuendo about the connection of KP and Newin on TV, if true, its just another example of the trait becoming so associated with Thailand, by the rest of the world.......

Difficult to do business with someone when you are looking behind you to make sure they do not stab you in the back.

King Power are widely rumoured to have been granted the monopoly AGAIN at the airport thanks to Thaksin who was in charge at the time.

At some point during the reshuffle and with the airport occupation etc, KP broke ranks and probably did some deal with the coalition party in terms of some sort of benefit in return for something, which is why there was the protests from the red shirts outside, of all the places they could go in Bangkok, KP Rangnam......

KP do understand how getting monopolies at the airport works and spent a lot of their money to build the Rangnam centre and others thinking they would be able to recoup the probably massive investment paid to TRT people back then alledgedly; subsequently they may have had to pay again, but at least, well you can't really put a price on the advantages of being the only game in town.......

In unrelated matters, it sure is nice to see that Thaksin and some of his cohorts aren't short of a bob these days. I'd hate to think that they starved in building this monolithe.

Broke ranks is putting it mildly.

What kind of screw up, or lack of ongoing ability, did Thaksin show to Newin and the KP puyai

around the time of the airport to make them do essentially a sea change in power management?

Most of the time these things happen just before elections as coalition partners jockey for advantage. (Snoh at al)

This was a bit different.

No doubt KP got these concessions for quietly being somewhat central to TRT holding power,

this concession is more than just a plum one it. is a world wide exposure one, to be leveraged internationally...

unless you are NOT watching long enough to let the low level scammers ruin your image world wide. DUH!

Something Newin saw in Hong Kong, and Chalerm ignored, was enough for KP and him to decide on a pullout.

If I remember the 'big meeting', Newin / Abhisit announcing a done deal, was hand in glove with KP's owner

and full press coverage. Thaksin must have been having convulsions of anger that afternoon....

We can easily imagine a lot of Thaksin's 'off-shore-cash' came via this particular entities alternate sources of revenue streams

and not his honest mistakes or accounting errors. Just one of many ways Dr. T. could have so much cash off shore

and not have appeared to 'generate ANY OF IT in Thailand, and then to illegally move it out'. Except no doubt much of

it WAS, and yet never repatriated, nor planned to be. Each aspect of this being illegal under Thai laws from HIS time as PM.

Hence he STILL shows "Unusual Wealth" even with $2.2 bil sequestered awaiting the courts.

No one but robber baron's can salt that much away in so short a time. Policy corruption is the ONLY logical conclusion.

And logic usually trumps: wishful thinking, political brainwashing, unfinished investigations besmirched,

and lazaire-faire public inattention to arcane details.

KP and Newin left Thaksin twisting in the breeze, but for Thaksin there is more than one more shoe to drop.

[stumonster]

Not disagreeing with you, but I too, always thought that "air-side" was no-man's land.

So, how come cops can pull a villain off an aircraft even after "chocks away"?

usually that area is federal Jurisdiction , they should also be able to order a plane to turn around if they have arrest warrants and it is still in national airspace - but does Thailand have that distinction in police duties ?

[bray]

8k pound is a massive amount! They should have fought it if they were innocent, why did they pay? did they steal it? giving in to these scams/extotions will make it continue! if you get in trouble you call your embassy and take it from there, REMEMBER INNOCENT UNTILL PROVEN GUILTY. Things need to change in Thailand

this is thailand mate....guilty untill proven innocent!!!! if your ever in any trouble PAY your embassy has no power here.... only your dollar.

[liloldspirut]

Terrible news. Not surprising. At least they were smart enough to go with the flow, and get out without further harassment. Is there anyone here that is capable of keeping things in check?

Remember going with the flow encompasses, being able to come up with that much cash then being able to return to recover some of the money. What if you did not have that amount of cash and your Embassy was as incompetent as the Brit? How long would you be in Limbo?

How many cash strapped tourist do you know that this scenario can occur?

Not all travelers have unlimited financial backings. Can you say HELLO POCKIE.