Kingpower Talks Back!

[loong]

although this video is very vague whilst the couple claims that it is not them on the video.

and Andrew Drummond says he has seen some more video and believes it is the couple in both ?

Actually, that is NOT what he says.

He says that he has seen the videos (Same as we have seen?) and one other. He doesn't actually state that the one other was a video of the couple. He does state that he believes the couple in the video are the same couple, but we don't know if he has had access to a better quality video than we have.

[basjke]

A thief is a thief. They are obviously thieves. No sympathy here.

Right - people always assume that Thailand is at fault, but these two are nothing more than common thieves and liars. They were caught red-handed and deserved to be punished.

Guilty or not, that doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a scam going on by the police. That is much more serious than shoplifting and so far no comment from the government.

But if there was no theft there also would be no opportunity for the scam

[jackdanielsesq]

Wasnt it Shakespeare who said - Methinks the lady doth protest too much!

BR>Jack

[stumonster]

and Andrew Drummond says he has seen some more video and believes it is the couple in both ?

Actually, that is NOT what he says.

He says that he has seen the videos (Same as we have seen?) and one other. He doesn't actually state that the one other was a video of the couple. He does state that he believes the couple in the video are the same couple, but we don't know if he has had access to a better quality video than we have.

ok - will Quote Andrew Drummond again and people can draw their own inference

Yes. I have seen this video and one other. Also clips from the arrest of the Irish woman. I believe the people are the same people.

and I will add another quote from Andrew Drummond

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

[LaoPo]

But if there was no theft there also would be no opportunity for the scam

Incorrect!

From my post above:

Possible scenarios for scams:

"

a: the cashier either drops an extra item into your shopping bag without you noticing;

b: the cashier gives you that extra item saying it's a free gift; or

c: if you're buying more than one item, the cashier charges you for one less than you're buying."

These are possible scenarios by the cashiers and/or staff, cooperating with or without airport police/security; there are of course more possibilities to scam passengers.

LaoPo

[loong]

Wasnt it Shakespeare who said - Methinks the lady doth protest too much!

BR>Jack

No, Shakespeare wrote and the character Queen Gertrude said "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

If you are wrong about such a well known quote, could you be wrong about something else?

[jackdanielsesq]

YOU?!

Never!!

BR>Jack

If you are wrong about such a well known quote, could you be wrong about something else?

[loong]

ok - will Quote Andrew Drummond again and people can draw their own inference

Yes. I have seen this video and one other. Also clips from the arrest of the Irish woman. I believe the people are the same people.

and I will add another quote from Andrew Drummond

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

You know full well that he was not referring to this case as you have been selective with the quote. He was talking about paedophiles that go free

Maybe you should have included more in your quote

This has happened in a lot of cases of arrests of paedophiles. They may be guilty or not guilty. But they are almost all shaken down.

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

As for the videos Andrew has seen, I've posted a question for him and so will await his reply.

Edited July 11, 2009 by loong

[basjke]

But if there was no theft there also would be no opportunity for the scam

Incorrect!

From my post above:

Possible scenarios for scams:

"

a: the cashier either drops an extra item into your shopping bag without you noticing;

b: the cashier gives you that extra item saying it's a free gift; or

c: if you're buying more than one item, the cashier charges you for one less than you're buying."

These are possible scenarios by the cashiers and/or staff, cooperating with or without airport police/security; there are of course more possibilities to scam passengers.

LaoPo

You are right about your scenario's but what I see in the 2 video clips posted in the OP doesn't fit in any of your scenario's.

What is more is that in the video about the english couple it is clear to me that the lady puts the wallet in her bag and,but this isn't so clearly visible,it seems that she even had a second item which she throws away while she is leaving.

[stumonster]

You know full well that he was not referring to this case as you have been selective with the quote. He was talking about paedophiles that go free

Maybe you should have included more in your quote

This has happened in a lot of cases of arrests of paedophiles. They may be guilty or not guilty. But they are almost all shaken down.[/b]

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

As for the videos Andrew has seen, I've posted a question for him and so will await his reply.

and haven't the ingram couple got the same piece of paper ? I took his quote to indicate all who posses the "I am 9002 certified innocent document".

[loong]

You know full well that he was not referring to this case as you have been selective with the quote. He was talking about paedophiles that go free

Maybe you should have included more in your quote

This has happened in a lot of cases of arrests of paedophiles. They may be guilty or not guilty. But they are almost all shaken down.[/b]

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

As for the videos Andrew has seen, I've posted a question for him and so will await his reply.

and haven't the ingram couple got the same piece of paper ? I took his quote to indicate all who posses the "I am 9002 certified innocent document".

No, you used this in an attempt to back up your own viewpoint by omitting relevant details.

As far as you are concerned this couple are shoplifters and you seize on anything that can support your opinion even when it means omitting part of a quote.

It may turn out that there is evidence of their guilt, but from the evidence that I have access to it is impossible to say. I have seen the video supplied by King Power and I have seen the photo of the couple in the news article. Are they the same couple - who knows? My first feelings were that it may possibly be the same man, but I have extreme doubts about the woman.

I am happy that I can reserve judgement until I am made aware of undeniable facts. I have seen nothing that can persuade me that this couple are guilty or not, so I will not form an opinion until I have more knowledge.

You hjave your own agenda for some reason and have decided to judge them guilty. You lack the ability to consider the facts and it does frighten me that a person like you is able to sit on a Jury.

Edited July 11, 2009 by loong

[loong]

Latest quote from Andrew Drummond, still not so clear...

Loong: I think King Power have put their best shots up on the internet now, although the British video seemed like a pretty good shot. I hope I did not mislead you. The ‘videos’ I saw were in fact printed snapshots from the video of Dr.Norris. What I saw did not seem to implicate her, but I of course may not have seen everything.

I asked her if there was anything else. Not that she had seen, she said. I have been expecting King Power to put the video of Dr. Norris up, but it has not appeared…..unless you know better.

[stumonster]

No, you used this in an attempt to back up your own viewpoint by omitting relevant details.

As far as you are concerned this couple are shoplifters and you seize on anything that can support your opinion even when it means omitting part of a quote.

It may turn out that there is evidence of their guilt, but from the evidence that I have access to it is impossible to say. I have seen the video supplied by King Power and I have seen the photo of the couple in the news article. Are they the same couple - who knows? My first feelings were that it may possibly be the same man, but I have extreme doubts about the woman.

I am happy that I can reserve judgement until I am made aware of undeniable facts. I have seen nothing that can persuade me that this couple are guilty or not, so I will not form an opinion until I have more knowledge.

You hjave your own agenda for some reason and have decided to judge them guilty. You lack the ability to consider the facts and it does frighten me that a person like you is able to sit on a Jury.

my agenda is to determine for myself if innocent people are being shaken down and so far I have yet to be convinced of it . People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so - my judgements have been on the video and whether it looks to me as if they have shoplifted an item. I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple.

as for your snide little insults ,maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

[loong]

my agenda is to determine for myself if innocent people are being shaken down and so far I have yet to be convinced of it . People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so - my judgements have been on the video and whether it looks to me as if they have shoplifted an item. I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple.

as for your snide little insults ,maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

You can't even see that you actually state that you have seen nothing to convince you of their innocence. This is where we are different - I want to see something that convinces me of their guilt before I form an opinion. You want to see something that proves their innocence. Maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

"People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so "

Yes you have

"I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple."

Unless you have access to something that we do not, you have judged that the couple in the video are the same couple who's photograph appears in the news article. Are you losing the plot?

[stumonster]

my agenda is to determine for myself if innocent people are being shaken down and so far I have yet to be convinced of it . People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so - my judgements have been on the video and whether it looks to me as if they have shoplifted an item. I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple.

as for your snide little insults ,maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

You can't even see that you actually state that you have seen nothing to convince you of their innocence. This is where we are different - I want to see something that convinces me of their guilt before I form an opinion. You want to see something that proves their innocence. Maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

"People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so "

Yes you have

"I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple."

Unless you have access to something that we do not, you have judged that the couple in the video are the same couple who's photograph appears in the news article. Are you losing the plot?

They are claiming they are innocent of theft and KP has published a video which they claim is the same couple and in it I can see the woman place something in her bag.

The photo published by the Times has no relevance to me despite your claims to the contrary. I am not basing my belief of that being the same couple by comparing the video and the photograph , I am basing it on the statement by KP.

what I want to know is if there is a scam in place that is having innocent people arrested and having to pay. To me from the video evidence and statement provided by KP I am not convinced that innocent people are ending up in police custody.

[Benjie]

my agenda is to determine for myself if innocent people are being shaken down and so far I have yet to be convinced of it . People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so - my judgements have been on the video and whether it looks to me as if they have shoplifted an item. I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple.

as for your snide little insults ,maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

You can't even see that you actually state that you have seen nothing to convince you of their innocence. This is where we are different - I want to see something that convinces me of their guilt before I form an opinion. You want to see something that proves their innocence. Maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

"People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so "

Yes you have

"I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple."

Unless you have access to something that we do not, you have judged that the couple in the video are the same couple who's photograph appears in the news article. Are you losing the plot?

Hang on - So you are saying that you think it was the man in the video, but accompanying a different woman - who just happened to be stealing.

Its the same guy, Its the same girl with her hair brushed in a slightly different manner. It's obvious to anyone who hasn't got an agenda or point to prove that they stole. Regardless of our thoughts on the shakedown afterwards.

[jtp]

Carefully watching the videos,i would be on the side of people that believe the couple are nothing but thieves.It would be a rare jury that found them innocent with this video proof.I really think they got off light.How long would it take to make up 8000 pounds?How long would they be stuck in jail here for?They were lucky,you don't get treated like you would back home.

[ozzieovaseas]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

Between you and your friends, and the others on TV who have made the same vow, we are probably up to 1000+ boycotters by now.

Given the 40+ million passengers each year at Swampy, King Power are no doubt shaking in their boots.

OH..thats just GREAT!!!

By way of thai economics this means they will be trying 10 times harder to scam 10 times as many people as to make up for the loss of revenue!!

I dont claim any knowledge of the layout of these stores but i hope its not like some airports where i remember having to walk through a shop setting that is basically built in the normal way of concourse to the gates.

kinda reminds me of a scene out of that "taxi driver" movie with robert deniro..yikes!

[loong]

Latest quote from Andrew Drummond July 11, 2009 at 2:34 pm

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/06/28/809/

my take is this (and its only my take). The video of the British couple looks real enough and does appear to show a woman placing a wallet in her bag. I have also said this video is not conclusive. And for that I mean in my opinion and in a British court, but not necessarily in a Thai court.(There appears to be no video showing any further connection with this wallet) The jury is still out on this. I have asked Stephen Ingram he says there is something very odd about the video ( though he has not said what) He has not denied it his Xi Lin and himself in the video. Although to be fair he says he cannot say anything about this on the recommendation of a Human Rights Lawyer in the UK. His recounting of events and locations in the airport which they visited are not the same as the version of events presented by KP. They never changed their clothes.

Actually it appears this couple were also charged with lying to police in saying they were not married….They are not married. Their seats were not even together on the aircraft. Food for thought?

[Benjie]

Not sitting together on the plane, yet obviously together as a couple - its starting to sound even more nefarious, wonder what their real purpose in Thailand was?

[GungaDin]

Not sitting together on the plane, yet obviously together as a couple - its starting to sound even more nefarious, wonder what their real purpose in Thailand was?

The thick plottens.

Probably undercover chemtrail investigations.

Dear, oh dear....... some people!

[caf]

Stir monster

and I will add another quote from Andrew Drummond

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

-------------------------------

Both quotes are taken out of context to try to support your preconceived view. I suggest members here read directly from Drummond's site and ignore out of context snippets

[caf]

"But if there was no theft there also would be no opportunity for the scam "

Your logic fails you again, Bienje

If you are riding your bike legally breaking no rules and stopped and asked for money, is that a scam without a crime?.

Can you tell posters a bit about your background . It might help us understand why you are taking these rather " hang them high" views without looking at all the evidence ansd sources.

[caf]

ok - will Quote Andrew Drummond again and people can draw their own inference

Yes. I have seen this video and one other. Also clips from the arrest of the Irish woman. I believe the people are the same people.

and I will add another quote from Andrew Drummond

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

You know full well that he was not referring to this case as you have been selective with the quote. He was talking about paedophiles that go free

Maybe you should have included more in your quote

This has happened in a lot of cases of arrests of paedophiles. They may be guilty or not guilty. But they are almost all shaken down.

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise.

As for the videos Andrew has seen, I've posted a question for him and so will await his reply.

--------------------------------------------

Good post - it mirrors one I already sent. I'd like to know Stumonster's motives here. He cleverly tries to distort. Why?

( am having problem with the quotes faeture)

[caf]

No, you used this in an attempt to back up your own viewpoint by omitting relevant details.

As far as you are concerned this couple are shoplifters and you seize on anything that can support your opinion even when it means omitting part of a quote.

It may turn out that there is evidence of their guilt, but from the evidence that I have access to it is impossible to say. I have seen the video supplied by King Power and I have seen the photo of the couple in the news article. Are they the same couple - who knows? My first feelings were that it may possibly be the same man, but I have extreme doubts about the woman.

I am happy that I can reserve judgement until I am made aware of undeniable facts. I have seen nothing that can persuade me that this couple are guilty or not, so I will not form an opinion until I have more knowledge.

You hjave your own agenda for some reason and have decided to judge them guilty. You lack the ability to consider the facts and it does frighten me that a person like you is able to sit on a Jury.

my agenda is to determine for myself if innocent people are being shaken down and so far I have yet to be convinced of it . People making judgements between the photo and the video is their call - I have not done so - my judgements have been on the video and whether it looks to me as if they have shoplifted an item. I don't think KP has released a video of some other couple.

as for your snide little insults ,maybe it is better for you to be a little more broadminded in your outlook

So why are you selectively quoting?

[stumonster]

In terms of reporting however they have a piece of paper which says they are not guilty and can thus can sue the pants off anyone who suggests otherwise

do you really think that statement applies to only pedophiles ? every one else who has paid has also received a letter which says they are not guilty and have no case to answer.

it is certainly not relevant to quote the whole text if that is the point.

[sleepyjohn]

Myself i'm terrified by the Thai police, if they pull a stunt on you your F****ed. So far i haven't had any problems with them at all and they seem not too bad. Still it does scare me they wield a lot of power.

Everybody should!

I've seen a lot of big mouths here on TV, throughout the years, and a lot of Farang Judges screaming: he/she is guilty...put them in prison, but ANYBODY could land in a Thai jail, innocent!

Let me tell a story here which could happen to everybody:

About 25 years ago I had been working in BKK for a week with a very well known factory and known by every single taxi/tuk tuk driver in BKK. On my way to Hong Kong (via very old Don Muang) I was stopped at the passport control.

The guy looked very nasty at me, called a few other brown chaps and they took me...through all kinds of corridors and finally into a room with 4 or 5 guys in brown, with a fan at the ceiling, no aircon (funny I remembered that) and grilled me for 2 hours about every step I made in BKK since my arrival, 5 days earlier, why, how long, with whom, which factory, which hotel - show receipt of payment, where did you eat..... etc. etc. etc.

I was scared to death and the first thought that crossed my mind was: "someone put drugs in my suitcase" because that was the only thing that could have possibly happened, why would they otherwise stop and grill me, being a normal businessman ? I didn't buy anything on the airport, nor any souvenirs in town, nothing!

Not one word WHY they stopped me for the entire 2 hours.

It was hot and I was completely soaked and becoming more and more frightened. After a long time the leading officer shouted at me:

YOU!!!.............no hep entry stamp in passport. HOW COME ??

:D

How the <removed> would I know ?

In those days the passport boys were sitting behind a kind of wooden very high desk (them sitting a lot lower on the other side) who took your passport, study it for a long time and than handed it back to you, closed. Impossible to see what they were doing.

The particular guy in my case didn't stamp my passport with an entry stamp and now they took me to the arrival hall again, passport control, had to stand in line again, with 2 brown guys next to me (...) and had my passport stamped, but not before he changed the date on the stamp, back to the arrival day

LaoPo

....in other words they were doing their job? Very efficiently and perfectly correctly?

Lao Po for someone who's "seen a lot of big mouths" around here it might be useful to separate what you thought might be and what actually was. I also doubt if it would enamour any Thais who happened to be reading this forum to farangs in general for you to be mocking the English abilities of the airport official in question.....and I wouldn't blame them.

So why not stick to fact and post carefully as i suggested to someone else recently?

Edited July 12, 2009 by sleepyjohn

[LaoPo]

1. ....in other words they were doing their job? Very efficiently and perfectly correctly?

2. Lao Po for someone who's "seen a lot of big mouths" around here it might be useful to separate what you thought might be and what actually was. I also doubt if it would enamour any Thais who happened to be reading this forum to farangs in general for you to be mocking the English abilities of the airport official in question.....and I wouldn't blame them.

3. So why not stick to fact and post carefully as i suggested to someone else recently?

1. Of course they were doing their jobs.

I was referring to the fact that I was scared to death when they took me away and grilled me for 2 hours about something I wasn't aware of that it (miss)happened.

At least they could have told me that an entry stamp in my passport was missing, right ? NO, instead, they sadistically grill an innocent businessman, bringing lots of money to the country, and prefer to withold the info WHY they hold him and question him. Don't tell me someone else wouldn't be scared. If you would do so you would be lying.

2. Where was I talking about the English abilities of some airport official ? And yes, I've seen lots of big mouths in the past years with their ugly comments, pretending to be Farang Judges in a foreign country, shouting someone is guilty beyond doubt... I'm meeting now another one...

3. I was talking facts and I always post carefully, so don't b_llsh_te me by suggesting me what to do or not!

If I make mistakes I have the balls to correct myself; I've done so in the past and in fact I asked the Mods a few days ago to change the title of a thread, by me, because I made an error, an overstatement.

But there's nothing in my post that justifies your ugly and nasty comment. Have a look in the mirror before you judge someone else!

LaoPo

[PastEgo]

in the left hand corner we have the bleedin' heart liberal vegan socialist brigade and on the other hand we have the right wing facist "hang em by their testicles" brigade

each stating the guilt or innocence of the accused

the main posters involved i reckon really really need to get some sex

then they will not be so frustrated

just a thought

PastEgo

[Serpico]

The way Police handled this is appalling.

Taking advantage of people because they carry the guns. Thugs is what they are.

They are untouchable and they know it. Terrorize a tourist for fun and profit. It's disgusting.

Certainly there are procedures in place to handle petty thefts. If they followed policy then I recommend tourists stay away.

A Sri Lanken, fake lawyer/embassy worker defrauds you out of 500,000 bt, splits it with the cops...Is that they way it works here?

Anyone that thinks they acted properly needs their head examined.