Penalty For Murder In Thailand...

[PeaceKay]

Latest news states that, and reiterates that, murder in Thailand warrants capital punishment.

This law has not changed since the early 1800's, when feudalism became outlawed and a more normal, salient, Japan-like technocracy began to take hold.

Industrialization is on its way, and the roots of market capitalism are taking hold.

Don't miss the opportunities that these things provide. The CEO method of giving out gifts to those who deserve it.

Well said and well deserved.

The Thais deserve more than what they currently get and even though our systems are not perfect (in our farang countries), we can set the example that wealth needs to be more proportionate in this country. They (the Thais) are still looking for us to be as ambassadors to their countries, and to learn from our wealth of knowledge, just as a country like Cambodia, for example.

[Harcourt]

Latest news states that, and reiterates that, murder in Thailand warrants capital punishment.

This law has not changed since the early 1800's, when feudalism became outlawed and a more normal, salient, Japan-like technocracy began to take hold.

Industrialization is on its way, and the roots of market capitalism are taking hold.

Don't miss the opportunities that these things provide. The CEO method of giving out gifts to those who deserve it.

Well said and well deserved.

The Thais deserve more than what they currently get and even though our systems are not perfect (in our farang countries), we can set the example that wealth needs to be more proportionate in this country. They (the Thais) are still looking for us to be as ambassadors to their countries, and to learn from our wealth of knowledge, just as a country like Cambodia, for example.

There's alot to be said for capital punishment. If you agree that for society to function, undesirable individuals (murderers, paedophiles etc) (and I have deliberately mentioned paedophiles, Papamoleste as you handle carries some ugly connotations), should be removed from society, the options are incarceration, expulsion, or death.

Why should society have to pay for the upkeep, for life, of someone deemed to be unfit to be a part of that society (ie, incarceration)?

Expulsion just moves the problem to someone else's society.

[roamer]

Latest news states that, and reiterates that, murder in Thailand warrants capital punishment.

This law has not changed since the early 1800's, when feudalism became outlawed and a more normal, salient, Japan-like technocracy began to take hold.

Industrialization is on its way, and the roots of market capitalism are taking hold.

Don't miss the opportunities that these things provide. The CEO method of giving out gifts to those who deserve it.

Well said and well deserved.

The Thais deserve more than what they currently get and even though our systems are not perfect (in our farang countries), we can set the example that wealth needs to be more proportionate in this country. They (the Thais) are still looking for us to be as ambassadors to their countries, and to learn from our wealth of knowledge, just as a country like Cambodia, for example.

So what do they do on your planet ?

[PeaceKay]

There's alot to be said for capital punishment. If you agree that for society to function, undesirable individuals (murderers, paedophiles etc) (and I have deliberately mentioned paedophiles, Papamoleste as you handle carries some ugly connotations), should be removed from society, the options are incarceration, expulsion, or death.

Why should society have to pay for the upkeep, for life, of someone deemed to be unfit to be a part of that society (ie, incarceration)?

Expulsion just moves the problem to someone else's society.

Read a bit about Puck Daddy (Google it) and you'll see where I got my name. It's totally a sports thing. Me's a hockey freak.

[Harcourt]

There's alot to be said for capital punishment. If you agree that for society to function, undesirable individuals (murderers, paedophiles etc) (and I have deliberately mentioned paedophiles, Papamoleste as you handle carries some ugly connotations), should be removed from society, the options are incarceration, expulsion, or death.

Why should society have to pay for the upkeep, for life, of someone deemed to be unfit to be a part of that society (ie, incarceration)?

Expulsion just moves the problem to someone else's society.

Read a bit about Puck Daddy (Google it) and you'll see where I got my name. It's totally a sports thing. Me's a hockey freak.

I made no judgemnt on you personally, I just said that "Papa Molest" carries some ugly connotations....therefore I mentioned paedophiles also as undesirables.

[GungaDin]

There's alot to be said for capital punishment. If you agree that for society to function, undesirable individuals (murderers, paedophiles etc) (and I have deliberately mentioned paedophiles, Papamoleste as you handle carries some ugly connotations), should be removed from society, the options are incarceration, expulsion, or death.

Why should society have to pay for the upkeep, for life, of someone deemed to be unfit to be a part of that society (ie, incarceration)?

Expulsion just moves the problem to someone else's society.

Read a bit about Puck Daddy (Google it) and you'll see where I got my name. It's totally a sports thing. Me's a hockey freak.

I made no judgemnt on you personally, I just said that "Papa Molest" carries some ugly connotations....therefore I mentioned paedophiles also as undesirables.

You beat me to it, H.

Papa molest james yyo......... change your medication, matey.

[BigSnake]

Capital Punishment in some cases, include Drugs(?), however, from my love view(stay) in Thailand it isn't not carried out often,(enough)

[bonobo]

I am not sure what the first part of your post (about capital punishment) had to do with anything else in your post (CEO's, "our wealth of knowledge" to teach Thais, etc.) but I will comment on capital punishment, not that anyone cares as feelings are pretty much set for most people.

Capital punishment harms society as a whole. It is sanctioned killing, pure and simple. Not that I have any compassion for some of these criminals.  Lock them up ala Devil's Island and let them rot for all I care.  

I am not sure about Thailand, but in the US, it costs far more in financial terms to execute someone than to lock them up for life.

I have three main problems with capital punishment.  First, it is permanent.  It cannot be taken back when new evidence exonerates a person.  And people have been falsely convicted.  Even one innocent person being executed is state-sponored murder.  If a person is locked up and later exonerated, that is bad, but that person can be compensated.

The second is that it perpetuates violence.  We say it is wrong to kill people, then we do it.  This is a tricky moral issue and not black and white, but I think it harms society to sponsor deliberate killing like that.

Then, where do we draw the line and what warrants death?  A vicious serial killer may seem like an easy call.  But a person who kills someone in an act of passion?  Harcourt mentioned paedophiles.  What about rapists?  Adulterers?

In many countries, adultery is a capital crime, and people are executed for it.  (How many of us could be tried and convicted of that, I wonder?)  Paedophiles are sick people who need to be locked away, to be sure, but killed?  Why?  I was molested myself as a child, but I could not live with the knowledge that the guy who did that to me was killed for his actions. Punished, sure, but killed?  I can no more wish this on another human anymore than if that other person had assaulted, robbed, or conned me. 

[khundon]

Bonobo

"I am not sure about Thailand, but in the US, it costs far more in financial terms to execute someone than to lock them up for life".

How do you calculate that?

[nedflanders]

too many innocent people get convicted of crimes they didnt commit. in all countries, think about how you would feel if it was you

[isanb]

Bonobo

"I am not sure about Thailand, but in the US, it costs far more in financial terms to execute someone than to lock them up for life".

How do you calculate that?

in volts

[oldsparrow]

I am not sure about Thailand, but in the US, it costs far more in financial terms to execute someone than to lock them up for life.

*****

In TL it costs less to do death sentence. After the behanded we used shooting by Bergmann sub-machinegun then HK MP5 with silencer, now injection. I don't know about the cost of injection tat is higher than shooting but during the time of shooting. I once asked a officer at Bang Kwang Prison where they carry out the death sentence. The cost for the shooting was last meal, position of shooter and his assistance extra allowance for the correction officers involved etc. Total cost could be around 10,000++ B.

From quick search, the web of Ofice of Human Right Commission of Thailand (nhcr.or.th). Up to July 2006 the death penalty carried out in the record (supposed to be after change to election system in 1932) is at 905 while 564 of it is narcotics cases.

[bonobo]

Bonobo

"I am not sure about Thailand, but in the US, it costs far more in financial terms to execute someone than to lock them up for life".

How do you calculate that?

It has to do with the cost of running someone through the system versus the yearly upkeep for a prisoner for an average life-span. Here is one of many, many reports on the subject:

Justice, in a June 30, 2008 report titled "Report and Recommendations on the Administration on the Administration of the Death Penalty in California," (800KB), offered the following:

"For comparative purposes, the Commission adopted a very conservative estimate that seeking the death penalty adds $500,000 to the cost of a murder trial in California. The costs of a second defense lawyer, the background investigation for the penalty phase, and the added duration and expense of the trial for jury selection and penalty trial alone would easily add up to $500,000 in most cases. The current rate of 20 death sentences per year would require 40 death penalty trials per year, for a total added cost of $20 million...

The costs of confinement can also be estimated with some precision, based upon the Department of Corrections estimate that confinement on death row adds $90,000 per year to the cost of confinement beyond the normal cost of $34,150."

Numbers differ, but most seem to agree that it costs about $2,000,000 to execute someone and about $1,000,000 to lock someone up for life without the possibility of parole.

Of course, this is mostly due to the huge number of safeguards the US implements to try and ensure there are no miscarriages of justice in death-penalty cases. I would imagine that a study in China would not have the same results. I don't know about trial costs, but they do not have the lengthy post-conviction incarcerations and so many appeals, so in countries like that, a death sentence may be cheaper. THis may also be true here in Thailand.

[cpofc]

I have had this CP debate numerous times over the years on my discussion boards.

The only conclusion we ever came to was that there is no conclusion, to the debate. Also discussing this topic can be highly emotive and has even ended friendships of those with opposing views.

On the subject of Capital Punishment - East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.

People are either for it or against it.

Albert Pierrepoint before his death stated categorically that Captial Punishment had no deterrent affect whatsoever and solved nothing. I guess you could call him a subject matter expert.

All I know is that I wouldn't like to be standing in the dock facing CP for a captial crime if I were broke and had no money.

A high ranking friend of mine within the department of justice here in Bangkok, when I asked him not long ago, is Thailand still executing people? I was told yes, it is just that after all the bad publicity of the Drug Wars and the fact that Amnesty Inter are still pressing the Thais for an explanation, that they just don't publicise them any longer.

[rogercw]

In America it does indeed cost more to execute someone than to lock them up for life. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that a convicted man is 25 years old when convicted and sentenced to life and lives for 60 more years at a cost of 25,000 dollars per year. Total cost of incarceration about a million and a half dollars if there was no inflation.

If executed eventually from a death sentence the man would be on death row for anywhere from five years to twenty or more years while his appeals were processed. The costs of the appeals can easily exceed five million dollars to the government. In many cases the government funds both sides of the appeals. The killer gets the benefit also of anti death penalty lawyers who donate their services for his appeals and must be countered by government funded lawyers.

Thus studies have shown that the cost to execute a man is more than the cost of life in prison.

I am an advocate of the death penalty but economic facts are what they are.

[rogercw]

As pointed out by Bonobo while I was typing my post the cost of incarceration on death row is also a lot higher than incarceration in the general population. On death row prisoners normally get private cells and a higher number of staff per prisoner than those in the general population which increases costs dramatically. A convict waiting on death row can easily cost more in 15 years than a convict in the general population for 60 years even without the costs of fighting his appeals.

[cpofc]

it is very hard not to get caught up in the CP debate, I applaud Roger, not many advocates of CP will concede facts. You are obvioulsy a man of integrity!

One of the most popular views is that many people put conditions on it (CP).

Yes, I am in favour of CP, but only for specific crimes and if they are proven guilty of those crimes beyond all doubt.

The problem with this, one that they fail to understand, is that once you have CP, you have it. it is like pregancy you cannot be a little bit pregnant. You either are, or you are not.

Perhaps the The Guildford Four are the greatest example of the flaws in the system. Fitted up by the Government. Had CP not been overturned in the UK at the time of their 'trial', these men would have hung.

[oldsparrow]

In TL the cost of judicial process between the death sentence case and the life imprisonment case are the SAME in most death sentence/life imprisonment case.

The process for both penalty are mostly the same becuase the cases of serious charge that can lead to both penalty are mostly go to the court of appeal and the high court.

[Briggsy]

The concept of sakdina is still widely applied in Thai courts. Thus the death penalty would only really apply to the people occupying the very lowest stratum of Thai society, slum dwellers, factory workers, career criminals.

It would not apply to, say, serving police officers like Somchai Wisetsingh who was convicted of murdering 2 British tourists in Kanchanaburi.

Explaining Sakdina

[cpofc]

The concept of sakdina is still widely applied in Thai courts. Thus the death penalty would only really apply to the people occupying the very lowest stratum of Thai society, slum dwellers, factory workers, career criminals.

It would not apply to, say, serving police officers like Somchai Wisetsingh who was convicted of murdering 2 British tourists in Kanchanaburi.

Explaining Sakdina

my point exactly Briggsy.

[oldsparrow]

The concept of sakdina is still widely applied in Thai courts. Thus the death penalty would only really apply to the people occupying the very lowest stratum of Thai society, slum dwellers, factory workers, career criminals. It would not apply to, say, serving police officers like Somchai Wisetsingh who was convicted of murdering 2 British tourists in Kanchanaburi. Explaining Sakdina

Seem like you never heard of Pol.Lt.Gen. ชลอ เกิดเทศ who has already got death sentence for murder of a diamond dealer family. He still appeal the case from the prison at present.

[Mosha]

Could the cost in the USA be anything to do with the appeal process?

[bonobo]

Could the cost in the USA be anything to do with the appeal process?

Absolutely! It also has to do with increased initial trial costs and increased incarceration costs, but yes, the lengthy appeals costs where the government often pays for both sides of the fight have much to do with the overal cost of a death penalty case.

[astral]

Make the punishment public.

I remember seeing a man beheaded in Jeddah, Saudi..............

It was a very salutory reminder of what can happen if we do not behave.