Shooting In Our Village

[kurnell]

Keep a video camera handy just in case the idiot starts shooting in the street again.

[Orac]

Charlieben,

Has this man had any specific trouble with yourself or other neighbours in the past ? Also would be interested to know how long you have been neighbours.

If he is not a DIRECT threat to yourself I would take your wifes advice and not get involved - if it is a problem between him and his wife it is up to her to take some action or, at the very least, ask for some help. As for talking to other neighbours about it, and there is no direct threat to you or them, I would be vary wary about word getting back to him as, if he is dangerous enough to point a gun at his wifes head, then I wouldn't fancy your chances.

Orac

No trouble with the neighbours in the past, it's always big issues with his wife. The police have been around a few times to sort them out. Even 2 days ago the cops were here to sort out some issue they had with a previous nanny.

We have been neighbours for about 1.5 years.

As for a direct threat, I'm talking about public safety, who knows where one of these stray bullets will go? I personally don't feel scared of this guy as an individual. I don't understand exactly what issues he and his wife have, but she's no angel, and I'm sure she's doing a bit to set him off. Yes, I'm not 100% certain, but I can't see him turning his anger, like his does to his wife, directly onto me.

I think there is a difference between him getting pissed off for my calling out his stupid behaviour, and whatever his wife does to get him wound up. Yeah Yeah I know big call considering he has a gun, but that's how I assess it.

By the sound of things the issues between the two of them seem to be coming to a head - first time for gunshots in 1.5 years and police around 2 days ago about 'nanny problem'.

I suggest you keep your head down for a couple of days and see what transpires (or take a short holiday) as I cannot see anything that you can actively do that will not potentially inflame the situation. Maybe your wife could pick up on the local gossip, if any, which might give you a better idea of what is going on.

[dave111223]

Maybe put up a security camera pointing into the street/his house...at least with video footage for him shooting off a gun in public the police would surely have to charge him ('connections' or not...video doesn't lie)...

[G54]

Seems to be a common thread of shut up and don't say anything. It's a pity because it's a pretty poor reflection on Thai society.

This would be an easy one to sort out back home, he's not so tough, actually very pathetic.

What sort of man points a loaded gun at their wife?

What sort of man fires bullets into a neighbourhood full of kids?

What sort of man turns off all the lights in the house, and hides when the police come knocking - I doubt he's well connected with our local police, otherwise he wouldn't have cowered in his house.

Can you imagine how fast this clown would be sorted out back in the west. I am sure that 99% of people (thai) in the village feel the same way as I do, but don't want to get involved. If everyone backed each here, he'd fold like a cheap suit. Doubt he'd take on the whole village.

I know what Thai's are like when it comes to this stuff, but how much does it take?, how well do the odds have to be stacked in your favour before you step up to the plate?

I mean this is pathetic, do we have to wait until someone's kid cops a bullet in the noodle from this guy before something is done.

"What sort of man points a loaded gun at their wife?

What sort of man fires bullets into a neighbourhood full of kids? " Answer ,A dangerous one, and the scary bit is as ive said before when they are mad they dont consider the consequences,.Safety first remember

I agree.

We come from, or tend to come from 'civilised' societies where the rule of law is generally upheld. We may dislike the police at times but they do often put themselves on the line in the face of danger and as a society we tend to be more willing to do the same in the knowledge we will tend to get justice.

That is not the same here in Thailand. Justice is at the whim of who knows whom and who has the most influence. A sad fact but it is true.

It is not up to us as a few temporary residents to right the wrongs of Thai society and their rule of law, as much as some of us would wish to do so.

For those who say to the OP to stand his ground and fight back - with what?

Against what seems to be some crazed Thai with a gun who attacks his defenceless wife, one man cannot be expected to do a lot considering he even had to ask his wife to call the police because he - it seems - does not know enough Thai to do so himself.

Yes, the OP has made a home for himself, he has invested time and effort and money to do so. It is very bad luck he has a crazed idiot for a neighbour, but what means does he have at his disposal to begin a fight against this man? It appears most of the Thai people are not willing to do anything much about it and the OP cannot go to them and express his feeling because of the language barrier amongst other things. So it is all well and good some saying he has to make a stand - against bullets??

edit - typo

Edited July 9, 2009 by G54

[justanothercybertosser]

It's not as if we live in some dodgy neighbourhood, this gated village is extremely family orientated. Also, it's not as if I am acting like a hero, bare minimum I would say.

'None of my business', I beg to differ. This is my neighbourhood. I should have the right to not put up with that. Is that really an acceptable standard of living for Thai's?

If you want to get involved, because you feel that you can't put up with it, you will have to back up your involvement with equal or, better, superior force. Which, given that you post your little problem here, you haven't. Don't get any further involved than you are already. You have already been careless enough.

The last thing you want is that a guy with a gun and a temper to go with it is getting pissed at you.

[Charlieben]

Maybe put up a security camera pointing into the street/his house...at least with video footage for him shooting off a gun in public the police would surely have to charge him ('connections' or not...video doesn't lie)...

Good point, where he pulled the gun on his wife is just underneath one of the CCTV cameras. It will be touch and go if the camera got it though, due to the angel. Waiting for Q House Management to come back to me on that one. Supposed to keep the footage for 30 days we were told.

[kurnell]

It's not as if we live in some dodgy neighbourhood, this gated village is extremely family orientated. Also, it's not as if I am acting like a hero, bare minimum I would say.

'None of my business', I beg to differ. This is my neighbourhood. I should have the right to not put up with that. Is that really an acceptable standard of living for Thai's?

If you want to get involved, because you feel that you can't put up with it, you will have to back up your involvement with equal or, better, superior force. Which, given that you post your little problem here, you haven't. Don't get any further involved than you are already. You have already been careless enough.

The last thing you want is that a guy with a gun and a temper to go with it is getting pissed at you.

Great idea, just ignore him when he is peppering the street with bullets. Maybe, as you are leaving for work and he is taking pot shots at the local wildlife you can engage him in conversation. "Nice shooting buddy, is that a Glock or a Colt 45?"

[Charlieben]

If you want to get involved, because you feel that you can't put up with it, you will have to back up your involvement with equal or, better, superior force. Which, given that you post your little problem here, you haven't. Don't get any further involved than you are already. You have already been careless enough.

The last thing you want is that a guy with a gun and a temper to go with it is getting pissed at you.

Understand your point, I have options, just looking to see what the general feedback is from the expat community. Thanks all.

[Datsun240Z]

I got a better idea for you, back off, let them deal it themselves.

[Charlieben]

It's not as if we live in some dodgy neighbourhood, this gated village is extremely family orientated. Also, it's not as if I am acting like a hero, bare minimum I would say.

'None of my business', I beg to differ. This is my neighbourhood. I should have the right to not put up with that. Is that really an acceptable standard of living for Thai's?

If you want to get involved, because you feel that you can't put up with it, you will have to back up your involvement with equal or, better, superior force. Which, given that you post your little problem here, you haven't. Don't get any further involved than you are already. You have already been careless enough.

The last thing you want is that a guy with a gun and a temper to go with it is getting pissed at you.

Great idea, just ignore him when he is peppering the street with bullets. Maybe, as you are leaving for work and he is taking pot shots at the local wildlife you can engage him in conversation. "Nice shooting buddy, is that a Glock or a Colt 45?"

...And this is my point, it's a bit hard to ignore someone who's doing this in the middle of the soi. I mean there were kids riding their bikes up and down the intersecting soi, i'm not joking.

[kurnell]

While there is a lot of advise bouncing around I note that nobody has responded saying that they have dealt with a situation like this, so clearly it is not a common one. In fact, in 17 years here, I have only seen a gun out in public once, and that was a 2am in a dark soi.

[mauGR1]

While there is a lot of advise bouncing around I note that nobody has responded saying that they have dealt with a situation like this, so clearly it is not a common one. In fact, in 17 years here, I have only seen a gun out in public once, and that was a 2am in a dark soi.

The best advise for OP,as most of the posters stated,is to try not to get a bullet yourself.Nobody will congratulate you for that.Also,i don't think is a great idea to try to film the mad guy,what if he does notice?

I live in Koh Chang 5 years now,3 shootings in the last 2 years only in my neighbourhood,2 young guys killed,1 disabled forever,and it's all quite normal for the local people.I am not scared as soon as i don't get involved,and you can bet i won't.After all we are only guests here.It's not a matter of being brave or coward,the fact is that there is nothing to win to act like a hero.

My advice for the OP,like another poster said,is try to make good neighbours with the sane ones,and possibly get to know the good,influential families in the area.Like everywhere,the bad apples are the minority.

[girlx]

my neighbors on koh phangan were like this.

i finally decided that i could stay on trying to live the fantasy and possibly get myself shot- or i could move on to the next adventure. i chose the latter and though i miss island life, i will never regret leaving.

there is NOTHING you can do as a foreigner to prevent this sort of situation. all you can do is avoid it.

i really hate this aspect of Thai culture.

Edited July 9, 2009 by girlx

[norwayeagle]

my neighbors on koh phangan were like this.

i finally decided that i could stay on trying to live the fantasy and possibly get myself shot- or i could move on to the next adventure. i chose the latter and though i miss island life, i will never regret leaving.

there is NOTHING you can do as a foreigner to prevent this sort of situation. all you can do is avoid it.

i really hate this aspect of Thai culture.

This Unculture, Unsivilised behaviour.is widely spread in my homeland 2.

N it's growing year by year! No1 put up "the traffic light" b4 it's 2 late.Kind of normal becometh.

[Lickey]

Last year Mrs cousin was badly beaten and raped by a local man at her remote farm house, she knew the man but would not id him to the BiB, she had to sell part of her farm to raise the 50k needed for dental and facial surgery,

I asked the Mrs many times, why dosent she shop him? after a few days Mrs says, ok, she turn him in, 1 month in the monkey house, he come back and try kill her for his discomfort!!! So you gonna let him get away with it??? she says NO, nobody mess with our family!

Songkram this year, and this fella was found dead on the local playing field, seems he was so drunk he didnt feel the poisened bamboo slither that went into his ear and to his brain, takes 12 painful hours to die from this apparantly, but nobody knows a thing,, official verdict, death by alcohol,

OP, i know you are saying hes shooting bullets down the street where kids are playing ect, but try not to get directly involved unless it concerns your family, let neighbours family sort things out, as you see from my post above, things can get messy, let the Thais get on with things the way they want, take a backseat, i think you will be glad you did!!

Lickey,,

[garyh]

If the guy is indeed a Mafia type as you suggest he may have the police on his payroll already. Also acording to Thai people around here the police will do nothing if a husband is bashing his wife.

[slapout]

If you live in a 400 house moo ban the chances of a Thai policeman living there is high. Even if he works in a substation out of the area, he would be the one to talk to the pistol carrying cowboy. We have 3 policeman living in our moo ban and they have sorted out a couple domestics here after local police were ineffective. They got tired of the screaming etc. as did others. I am not aware that guns were ever involved though.

[tartempion]

While there is a lot of advise bouncing around I note that nobody has responded saying that they have dealt with a situation like this, so clearly it is not a common one. In fact, in 17 years here, I have only seen a gun out in public once, and that was a 2am in a dark soi.

Really?

In 2 1/2 years living near then village I saw a man draw and shoot a gun 3 times at a next door's party. 'T was "only" in the air and all spectators fled the scene, the morlam band sought cover and 't was the end of the party.

We usually avoid village parties because they ALWAYS end in violence, but this one was next doors. Not different from the other weekly village parties.

I have seen fights in Europe and the USA, but Thailand beats all the places for violence.

Something to do with peacefulness advocated by Buddhism.

I guess violence is a taboo in Thai society.

To my knowledge any taboo turns into excess whenever the barrier goes down.

[Bobsyouruncle]

I am looking for some advice as to handle this situation...

My Thai wife and I live in a Quality House Village which has a good secure, family oriented, environment. Out of nearly 400 homes I think we have the one with the neighbour that is the 'odd one out'. He is supposed to have 4 massage parlours (so he told us), and comes across as a bit of a thai mafia style.

After listening to many many arguments between him and his wife, it finally came to an exclamation mark last night, with the husband firing 4 shots out in the soi at about 7:30pm. After hearing this I went down to see what had happened, found his wife out the front of their place, baby in arms, sitting on the driveway crying. I was going to ask her if she was ok, when I looked over into the house and saw the husband holding a pistol, at which point I quickly went back to my own place to phone my wife and get her to call the police.

During this time the couple continued to argue (screaming at the top of their lungs), about 10 mins had elapsed, and I heard their car start up. Once again, I went outside to see what was happening. The wife was now at the end of the soi, and the husband was heading towards her in the car. I stood out in the middle of the soi in front of my house, so the husband could see I was watching, hoping to deter him from doing something stupid.

When he reached her he opened the car door, got out, pulled out his gun again, cocked the trigger and pointed it at her head. I could not believe what I was seeing. Only one brave security guard stood by to observe, the rest just took off. By they way, there are many parents and children in the streets at this time. He did not shoot her, but dragged her back to their house, arguing continued, a load thud, then nothing.

By this time I am frantically calling my wife saying where are the bloody police, it must have been a half hour by now. She ends up having to get them from the police station, and bring them to our house.

When they get here, they were pathetic, so casual about something that is so serious, just a husband wife argument they said. They told us they could do nothing as they did not see it 1st hand they could only ring his doorbell, and ask him to come out. I could not beleive this, they have multiple witnesses, spent cartridges on the ground. After a few attempts they were actually going to leave. At this point I got very angry, and we basically had to bully the police into persisting to get the shooter out of his house, and down to the station. From what my wife overheard they took his gun away from him.

We shouldn't have to put up with this in our environment, nobody, in any country, should have to.

What Thai laws has he broken?, what are the penalties?, how can I best handle this?

My wife wants to keep a low profile, but fcuked if i'm going to cower in my own home, especially since he would be the only one of his sort in the village. It's actually become a very sour issue between my wife and I.

Any advice?

Welcome to Thailand!!

If you want to live in a cotton wool environment I suggest you don't live in a third world country.

[namoo]

Watch your back for the next 20 years now or move.

You said he was "Mafia" type. He obviously pays the police a few THB then with his massage parlours. Therefore if he finds out who called the cops by asking his mate at the station. You are screwed.

Do not be so naive about Thailand you should have stayed in your house full stop. The cops will not want to lose their Tea Money over a farang getting involved with a domestic.

Edited July 10, 2009 by namoo

[Mosha]

Last year Mrs cousin was badly beaten and raped by a local man at her remote farm house, she knew the man but would not id him to the BiB, she had to sell part of her farm to raise the 50k needed for dental and facial surgery,

I asked the Mrs many times, why dosent she shop him? after a few days Mrs says, ok, she turn him in, 1 month in the monkey house, he come back and try kill her for his discomfort!!! So you gonna let him get away with it??? she says NO, nobody mess with our family!

Songkram this year, and this fella was found dead on the local playing field, seems he was so drunk he didnt feel the poisened bamboo slither that went into his ear and to his brain, takes 12 painful hours to die from this apparantly, but nobody knows a thing,, official verdict, death by alcohol,

OP, i know you are saying hes shooting bullets down the street where kids are playing ect, but try not to get directly involved unless it concerns your family, let neighbours family sort things out, as you see from my post above, things can get messy, let the Thais get on with things the way they want, take a backseat, i think you will be glad you did!!

Lickey,,

Not an isolated incident, the revenge part. These people bear a grudge a long time, why do you think they dislike Burmese? To the OP consider this, your neighbour may be the local hitman. If he is, he may be doing some cleaning up for the police, it certainly happens around here.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Mosha

[geriatrickid]

Until one lives next door to a nutter like this, one doesn't appreciate the stress and inherent danger. Try sleeping within earshot of some woman getting beaten up and see if you get a good night's sleep or can live with yourself.

Ok, so now braniac is firing off his gun. What happens when a stray bullet takes out the OP's wife or a kid? Based upon the TV advice the OP should hush. Sorry, but as soon as the gun was fired, the OP and family were endangered and he had an obligation to protect his family. What's he supposed to do? Wait until the bullet comes through the window and then go look for the slug, find it if it's embedded in his wife's skull, dig it out with a knife, and then return it to the shooter with a nice smile and dutiful wai?

[jackr]

Christ, while all the smugness? The guy is asking for some help/info to a real problem, not 'I'm pissed that my pizza is salty, how do I get a refund' or 'I got ripped off at the market'. Alright, we all know one shouldn't get involved but why come on here barking TIT, welcome to Thailand, etc... to what end! Just skip over or hangout in the joke forum. Would you, if you had a family in one of the top moobahns in the country, be as flippant?

Unfortunately, op, there really isn't much you could. Perps like this are in all levels of society and live everywhere. The only viable option without getting done over is to look for a house elsewhere. All the best.

[namoo]

Sorry, but as soon as the gun was fired, the OP and family were endangered and he had an obligation to protect his family. What's he supposed to do? Wait until the bullet comes through the window and then go look for the slug, find it if it's embedded in his wife's skull, dig it out with a knife, and then return it to the shooter with a nice smile and dutiful wai?

Yeh you are right he should have grabbed the garden hose and ran out to defend his wife and kids and property. You brainless idiot.

Lets look at the odds for a minute, What is safer he runs out to fight, gets shot, wife and kid run out to see if dad is ok they get shot OR a stray bullet from his gun which was not pointed at the house entering through his house window and hitting a family member who are asleep in the bed or even on the ground having heard shots. I know which one i would bet on.

He would have far better have protected his family when he heard shots fired by staying in doors and moving his family to a safer location in the house rather than run outside to confront the gunman.

The logic of some Thai Visa members is just nuts. I am hoping that most of the nonsense that is posted is done so under the influence. Otherwise I don't blame the Thai's for being xenophobic if they read this crap.

Edited July 10, 2009 by namoo

[villagefarang]

Welcome to Thailand my naive and idealistic young friend. Perhaps I have lived here too long but you are the one who looks a bit off his rocker here.

Sure you are not afraid of him but he is not the one who would hurt you. If you push him too hard, and cause him to get in trouble, he will get someone else to hurt you.

This is not the movies where the good guy wins and if you are right, you get justice in the end. Weigh your options of staying safe by staying out of it, or risking everything for the sake of your macho ego. Welcome to the real world, not the litigious, virtual world of western movies.

[imaneggspurt]

Sorry, but as soon as the gun was fired, the OP and family were endangered and he had an obligation to protect his family. What's he supposed to do? Wait until the bullet comes through the window and then go look for the slug, find it if it's embedded in his wife's skull, dig it out with a knife, and then return it to the shooter with a nice smile and dutiful wai?

Yeh you are right he should have grabbed the garden hose and ran out to defend his wife and kids and property. You brainless idiot.

Lets look at the odds for a minute, What is safer he runs out to fight, gets shot, wife and kid run out to see if dad is ok they get shot OR a stray bullet from his gun which was not pointed at the house entering through his house window and hitting a family member who are asleep in the bed or even on the ground having heard shots. I know which one i would bet on.

He would have far better have protected his family when he heard shots fired by staying in doors and moving his family to a safer location in the house rather than run outside to confront the gunman.

The logic of some Thai Visa members is just nuts. I am hoping that most of the nonsense that is posted is done so under the influence. Otherwise I don't blame the Thai's for being xenophobic if they read this crap.

Spot on, for some until they are on the receiving end of a crazy thai situation it dosent exist, ..a situation like this can turn your whole life around in a second and i for one with a 7 year old will not compromise our safety by trying to be john wayne or the lone ranger .yes actually i have witnessed first hand someone shot for "getting involved " in a situation,.he didnt get thanked, but he did get 7 weeks in hospital,ive said this before but it fell on deaf ears i feel, safety first, not baravery,.and dont even think of going down the route of getting armed,..have you heard about the farang that went went to war with a thai and lived ?.no? ,nor me,.

[gpdjohn]

Move your kids or other's inside your house away from the side where his house is.

Have them sleep on the floor down and away from the windows. Make sure the walls are thick enough that a bullet will not go through.

Keep the lights off at night in the rooms that face his house. That way you will not be a target.

[Mosha]

Whatever you do do not make him lose face. A big no no. Otherwise the gun shots could be even close than you like. As for his wife going to the police, forget it.

A few months back we had a retired hitman living nearby. He had run from Surat Thani. Around Songkhran a strange car was seen cruising near his home. The guy was drinking with friends. He was followed home and has he got through the front door someone came up behind him. Shot him 3 times in the back, rolled him over and put one in his head. His wife dashed out of the bedroom. Saw the masked gun man, he pushed her back in the bedroom. "Stay out of it (said her name), it's none of your business." She recognised the voice as being a local police man. As for the locals, they locked their doors and stayed low, until the coast was clear. The widow has done nothing, because fear is wonderful at keeping peoples mouths shut.

[ThaiBasil]

I haven't read all replies but here is some advice:

- try see if you can do something against it with the wole community instead of just by yourself

- as it is a gated residence with guards, see if the management can do something? More security guards? Extra surveillance, video camera's?

- I belive it is possible for police to come in there every day. I used to stay in a place where 2 cops on a motorbike came to check every day where they had to sign a paper confirming they have been there, not sure if it was requested or because something has happened there before, but still this could help. Maybe the management can pay a little extra for the cops to come every day?

- step away from the whole situation for a while as you and your wife argueing about it as well now (if I understood your comment correctly). Just take a holiday for a week or two.

- try figuring out if the wife of the guy wants to take legal action against her husband. Someone must convince her to do so, cause (I am not sure about laws, but it sounds logical to me) if she does want to do something about it, your whole community can join against him.

- if you and your wife have a kid, I would definately move if nothing can be done against him

- make sure your own house is safe enough for guys like him to stay out

[oldsparrow]

Thanks Kurnell, appreciated. It's obviously not that easy to just sell up and move. I sure those of you who own a house understand. It would be great to hear if anyone has an idea on exactly what laws have been broken by his actions? I would have thought there were some very strict laws about firing a gun in public, and pointing a loaded weapon at someone.

Offences:

1. Firing firearm in public without appropriate course

2. Attempt murder

3. Detain a person against his/her will with the threat of weapon

4. The gun should be checked if it is registered on his name or not?

If he is charged he can be kept locked up for a few days before he can get a leave permit on bail of around 200K B.

PS: He may have more than one gun and two arms...

Edited July 10, 2009 by oldsparrow