Rousing Welcome For Pm

[Chaimai]

This is a battle for one-person-one vote Democracy (Red Shirts) and the elitist PAD with their appointive process, disenfranchising huge swaths of the population because they didn't vote correctly. This holier-than-thou focus on vote buying is the red herring to eliminate voting altogether. I would suggest that one-person-one-vote electoral processes become an inalienable right of all citizens, and vote-buying be criminalized - applicable to the 'seller' and 'the buyer'.

FERWERT

This is a very assertive statement. Can you provide the evidence or manifesto reference for eliminating voting altogether.

[jayboy]

Now is the the time of the street gang politcally

There has been a lot of selective and often sanctimonious outrage expressed about violence on the streets.Very few however are inclined to condemn however the thuggish activities of the side they do not generally favour politically.Sparing your blushes you seem to be one of those few who is genuinely evenhanded.

I would like to make a couple of points, in some ways contradictory but still pertinent.

1.The level of political violence has in fact been remarkably low given the tensions in Thai society.This reflects well on the leadership of the various factions and indeed on the security forces, particularly the police and on Thaksin,Samak, Somchai and Abhisit.Zealots will bare their fangs at this and make preposterous comments about PAD vigilantes or Red Songkran revolutionaries but it's the simple truth.I sense that following 1973,1976 and more recently Suchinda's crimes that Thais shrink from any repetition, and more generally there's more common sense and reasonableness around than many would credit

2.Historically political change has often come about through the willingness of young people to come out on to the streets in the knowledge they might expect violence from the authorities (and if one is truthful being prepared to inflict it).

Edited July 13, 2009 by jayboy

[Chaimai]

As far as Mr. Thaksin being sunk...dont count on it. "The Petition" has now exceeded 1 million signatures and is growing by leaps and bounds.

FERWERT

I wonder how many people it took to make 1m signatures

[justanothercybertosser]

Blue and red are no different.

Red and Blue are quite different, and incomparable to both Red and Yellow.

There are two "grown" movements that have wide support under different sectors of the population - the PAD and the Red Shirts. Both have naturally support by political parties, individual politicians and members of the security forces, and have their own guard units.

Blue though is a purely artificial militia, directly founded by the government coalition, no political ideology or manifesto whatsoever, and is solely used to fight and/or intimidate the Red Shirts, and to do the government's dirty work with (not so) plausible deniability. There is neither a mass movement, nor any following whatsoever under Blue.

[emancipationthailand]

........................

Just on the TV .... for the massive sales of the newest Govt's bonds that flying off like mad. ... Surprisingly, around Burirum which was visited by Aphisit, none of the banks were able to sale a single Govt's bond!

BTW, my felling is that the sentiment for the huge portion of Thai people now goes (underground), farangs' fundamental on thai politics can't be cured. So, me and whole lots of Thai DO NOT APPRECIATED YOUR PRESENSE HERE.

[hammered]

Blue and red are no different.

Red and Blue are quite different, and incomparable to both Red and Yellow.

There are two "grown" movements that have wide support under different sectors of the population - the PAD and the Red Shirts. Both have naturally support by political parties, individual politicians and members of the security forces, and have their own guard units.

Blue though is a purely artificial militia, directly founded by the government coalition, no political ideology or manifesto whatsoever, and is solely used to fight and/or intimidate the Red Shirts, and to do the government's dirty work with (not so) plausible deniability. There is neither a mass movement, nor any following whatsoever under Blue.

That is very similar to the early days of the pro-Thaksin group, before they were officially UDD or red, when they just attacked government of the days opponents. They have been around a while and have developed somewhat. Blue are relatively new and it is not possible to say whether or how they will develop but they remain exactly comparable to the 2005-6 pro-Thaksin groups in purpose.

Yellow developed slightly differently starting as an outside parlaiment group and they grafted the violent side on a bit later whereas blue and the pro-Thaksin groups developed when their poltical masters were in power and they needed some strong arm support.

[sriracha john]

So, me and whole lots of Thai DO NOT APPRECIATED YOUR PRESENSE HERE.

start a petition and let us know... once it gets to the trendy million signatures...

[justanothercybertosser]

Blue and red are no different.

Red and Blue are quite different, and incomparable to both Red and Yellow.

There are two "grown" movements that have wide support under different sectors of the population - the PAD and the Red Shirts. Both have naturally support by political parties, individual politicians and members of the security forces, and have their own guard units.

Blue though is a purely artificial militia, directly founded by the government coalition, no political ideology or manifesto whatsoever, and is solely used to fight and/or intimidate the Red Shirts, and to do the government's dirty work with (not so) plausible deniability. There is neither a mass movement, nor any following whatsoever under Blue.

That is very similar to the early days of the pro-Thaksin group, before they were officially UDD or red, when they just attacked government of the days opponents. They have been around a while and have developed somewhat. Blue are relatively new and it is not possible to say whether or how they will develop but they remain exactly comparable to the 2005-6 pro-Thaksin groups in purpose.

Yellow developed slightly differently starting as an outside parlaiment group and they grafted the violent side on a bit later whereas blue and the pro-Thaksin groups developed when their poltical masters were in power and they needed some strong arm support.

Just because there are some parallels in their potential for violence there are more aspects that are completely different. In early organizations such as the caravan of the poor you have had very strong grass roots involvement. Even some sectors of the Assembly of the Poor were part of the Caravan of the Poor. Which did cause frictions in the People's movement.

Unfortunately at the day only the incident at the Nation was reported in the medias, but almost nothing was said about the simple farmers and their families that took part in the caravan of the poor, and what motivated them.

Of course in any grass roots organization in Thailand you will have involvement by politicians and vested interests. And potential for violence is always just around the corner. The Blue Shirts though have no grassroots element whatsoever - they are a pure government organized militia. They do not hold public meetings, they have no political message whatsoever - they are hired man for one single purpose only - to disrupt Red Shirt protests, and to disappear from again from the public eye until they reappear.

The Blue Shirts are completely different from both mainstream Red Shirts and mainstream PAD.

[hammered]

Blue and red are no different.

Red and Blue are quite different, and incomparable to both Red and Yellow.

There are two "grown" movements that have wide support under different sectors of the population - the PAD and the Red Shirts. Both have naturally support by political parties, individual politicians and members of the security forces, and have their own guard units.

Blue though is a purely artificial militia, directly founded by the government coalition, no political ideology or manifesto whatsoever, and is solely used to fight and/or intimidate the Red Shirts, and to do the government's dirty work with (not so) plausible deniability. There is neither a mass movement, nor any following whatsoever under Blue.

That is very similar to the early days of the pro-Thaksin group, before they were officially UDD or red, when they just attacked government of the days opponents. They have been around a while and have developed somewhat. Blue are relatively new and it is not possible to say whether or how they will develop but they remain exactly comparable to the 2005-6 pro-Thaksin groups in purpose.

Yellow developed slightly differently starting as an outside parlaiment group and they grafted the violent side on a bit later whereas blue and the pro-Thaksin groups developed when their poltical masters were in power and they needed some strong arm support.

Just because there are some parallels in their potential for violence there are more aspects that are completely different. In early organizations such as the caravan of the poor you have had very strong grass roots involvement. Even some sectors of the Assembly of the Poor were part of the Caravan of the Poor. Which did cause frictions in the People's movement.

Unfortunately at the day only the incident at the Nation was reported in the medias, but almost nothing was said about the simple farmers and their families that took part in the caravan of the poor, and what motivated them.

Of course in any grass roots organization in Thailand you will have involvement by politicians and vested interests. And potential for violence is always just around the corner. The Blue Shirts though have no grassroots element whatsoever - they are a pure government organized militia. They do not hold public meetings, they have no political message whatsoever - they are hired man for one single purpose only - to disrupt Red Shirt protests, and to disappear from again from the public eye until they reappear.

The Blue Shirts are completely different from both mainstream Red Shirts and mainstream PAD.

In that they are exactly the same as the groups Thaksin's government put together to attack the early PAD. They had no poltical agenda but were created to fight. To this day these elements are still within the now UDD/red shirts. The yellow shirts later grafted their own hoodlum element on.

The blue shirts are an exact replica of the attack groups TRT created to intimidate the PAD back in the day. The caravan of the poor were not the violent side but people who came/were brought (dependiong on point of view) to just sit and demonstrate. The attack groups and the caravan of the poor were different things in those days. Newin or the Dems could also bring or call on their own peaceful poor demonstrators if they wanted. Actually the Dems seem to refrain from demonstration stuff completely. Back in 2005 they called a rally and then cancelled it to avoid clashes, but I dont doubt they too could deliver a huge demonstration if they wanted as they have grassroots support in certain regions too. Newin also in his TRT days showed he could create both violent and peaceful groups when needed. He was instrumental in things like the attack groups, caravan of the poor, establishment of UDD and of gathering certain underprivileged groups in Bangkok. Admittedly though Newin's support is pretty much tied to lower Isaan Khmer speaking areas and cant match that of Thaksin and his allies.

At the end of the day though violence is violence and whoever is committing it and in what name it needs to be condemned whatever coliour shirt they wear.

I dont see much difference even today between blue shirts and say LCM51 who are a turf based reactionary and thugish and indeed murderous gang on the red side. I'm sure some of the yellow guard units are also similar. Condemn it all.

[wolf5370]

........................

Just on the TV .... for the massive sales of the newest Govt's bonds that flying off like mad. ... Surprisingly, around Burirum which was visited by Aphisit, none of the banks were able to sale a single Govt's bond!

BTW, my felling is that the sentiment for the huge portion of Thai people now goes (underground), farangs' fundamental on thai politics can't be cured. So, me and whole lots of Thai DO NOT APPRECIATED YOUR PRESENSE HERE.

Mmmm, you spelt your PM's name wrong by the way. It seems to me there is little 'fundamentalism' in the 'farang' chat here - mostly dismissing and debating the Thai fundamentalists.

I presume you mean PRESENCE as in being here (though many on this forum actually are not 'here' in Thailand) as opposed to PRESENSE. Or do you really mean you do not appreciate us thinking before the fact?

Fundamentalism most assuredly can be 'cured' - we call it education. Without us 'outsiders' and Thais together, discussing and comparing, how do you expect to get any reasonable handle on curing said fundamentalism. Without seeing what else is on offer - or where a historical perspective outside of your borders can provide clues as to the outcome of political decision and direction here, etc, how do you educate yourselves? Watching YouTube videos from disgruntled politicians on the run, perhaps? Yep, that's going to be unbiased isn't it.

I would suggest the 'me and whole lot of Thai' is either those that enjoy the bliss of being ignorant and uneducated, or have an agenda where they wish 'you and a whole lot of Thais' to remain that way.

As many of us love this country, and because we do not have the baggage of political allegiances, we would like the best possible outcome for the country - to know and understand how that can be achieved, we need to discuss and debate - if you want to learn (as we all are by contributing too), then contribute and debate with us as an intellect. If you want to stay ignorant and anti-social, then stick to your YouTube vids and equally biased Thai news papers and get the h3ck out of this forum.

Cheers and hope to talk again with respect and understanding - you can do it, its in your culture!

Edited July 13, 2009 by wolf5370

[animatic]

Love the bit on the BKK Post article about demanding an apology to the residents of Buri Ram from the Red Shirts

Yes, that made my day when I read that in the paper!

[LomSak27]

He reiterated that the government had a plan to press ahead with several projects including the health care scheme for the public and the elderly, as well as improvements on the public health system and local health units, which would be targeted in the next three years

Amazing how quickly the Democrats have embraced "populist politics". Like him or loath him, Thaksin changed the face of thai politics.

[AnaisNin]

Rousing welcome by some 3,000 police and 500 blue shirts?

[reallyok]

........................

Just on the TV .... for the massive sales of the newest Govt's bonds that flying off like mad. ... Surprisingly, around Burirum which was visited by Aphisit, none of the banks were able to sale a single Govt's bond!

BTW, my felling is that the sentiment for the huge portion of Thai people now goes (underground), farangs' fundamental on thai politics can't be cured. So, me and whole lots of Thai DO NOT APPRECIATED YOUR PRESENSE HERE.

So how do you feel about your ENGLISH born / ENGLISH educated Thai pretender PM ? or are you having a "Bob each way" as they say in England ?