Torturing Myself Over Lenses

[neverdie]

Both the other half and I enjoy photography. I am only fairly new to it, although my old job use to involve some photography work with SLR's. The GF is a technology head and is much better than I, however we enjoy working together, the best results come with me rattling off ideas and the camera in her hands.

We have decided that we want to buy a new DSLR and have chosen the Nikon D300. I believe this is a Camera that will give her the opportunity to expand into over the next few years, although I doubt I will ever possess the ability to use it to its maxium.

We both enjoy scenery/landscape photograhy, as well as some close up work such as flowers, bugs and the like. We also occassionly like to photograph family goings on here in Thailand, as well as pets etc. We are presently planning trips to Australia and New Zealand, so we naturally want to get up and running before we do that.

I am presently torturing myself and my budget as to what lenses would suit us the most. I am currently looking at the Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm f/208G ED, which seems to be of fairly high quality & with a number of good Nikon features. Its not a cheap lense, but I'm not really too sure if theres something else I could look at, thats perhaps not so expensive, yet still a good lense.

We are also considering a Macro type lense, of which I have no real experience with and have noticed that Nikkor presently offer three new lenses between 60mm and 105mm. Naturally I would love to be able to test some of these lenses over a few days but as thats not an option, I''m not sure which way to jump.

Eventually, when I save more money, I would also like to get a wide angle or fisheye type lense, again I have no experience with these lenses.

In the past I have always used cheap ends lenses, typically 18-200mm or similar. To be honest, I don't think its going to change my photography that much to move into something a little better but I believe it will certainly benifit the gf.

I have read alot of the PINNED information here on this forum and would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for providing such wonderful information and links.

If anyone has any ideas for me regarding lense choice, I would be happy to hear from you. Thanks alot

[harrry]

The way your face moves don't you have trouble holding your camera steady?

With the lenses buy one, use it for a while to get used to it and then consider buying another based on your needs then dont try to get used to several lenses all at once.

[neverdie]

^ Thanks Harry, yes I would imagine if my face moved like that it would be very difficult to focus and get a shot away, I don't think VR is going to help much. Actually thats my biggest problem keeping a steady hand for low light work etc which is one of the reasons I was considering the Nikkor 105mm macro lense, it has VR.

[Serpico]

The D300 is getting pretty old now.

A friend just bought the D90. The exposures are coming out perfect. The colors look great.

Some D700s should be hitting the used market too. I would look for that body.

I recommended she get the 17-35 wide zoom, a 50mm f1.4. and a 105 f2.8 macro. The 105 also does portraits, street photography and more besides closeups.

If you are really into portraits, get an 85 f1.4.

That is a super kit of lenses.

[neverdie]

^ Thanks Serpico, Yes the D300 is a bit over 2 years old I think, maybe 3, depending on where you live. They also originally had a problem with the camera program and the batteries, however I believe that has all long been sorted out.

The D700 is a very very serious and expensive camera. I'm already well and truely testing my budget to look at the D700. I have looked at the D90 and considered it closely. I have read at various sites the D90 is a great camera. I feel the construction of the D300 is top quality and the seals on it ect are excellent.

Portraits are the least thing we do, so I'm not really that interested in buying a lense for soley that purpose. This is one of the reasons I thought the 24-70mm f/2.8 (just notice I made a typo in the original post) would be good and later, much later I could look at a wide angle lense, smaller than the 17-35 you are suggesting, ie 14-24 etc.

Anyway, I will most certainly look at those lenses you have suggested, naturally price is an important thing, but I am also weary of changing lenses too much, in the field, especially in some of the dusty locations we seem to find ourselves in. Thanks for your comments.

[Tingnongnoi]

the 14-24 is maybe too expensive for the amount of use it gets, maybe have a look at the Sigma 10-20 mm if you buy the D300, not if you were to go for the full frame D700

[skippybangkok]

Anyway, I will most certainly look at those lenses you have suggested, naturally price is an important thing, but I am also weary of changing lenses too much, in the field, especially in some of the dusty locations we seem to find ourselves in. Thanks for your comments.

Used to spend alot of time looking at it....... had all kinds........ but have one lens which i love - the 18-200mm with image stabilisation. Not cheap, but will do what you need indoors and out doors. No need to change lenses, and good images. This will cover your wide and other shots nicely. Great lens. I hated farting around with lens changes, but did not like bad lenses too. This jewel solved it for me

Macro....... well bugs are very skittish, cant ever imagine you getting a close up with a 60mm macro lens, unless you super glue the bug to the leaf. normally 105mm or 200mm macro lens. I have only done underwater macro, so not expert on it. Used 105mm alot, and some times 2x macro.

Thats all you need I think, unless you have special shots u wanna make ( i.e. 10.5mm close focus ) or long distance stuff.

Edited July 12, 2009 by skippybangkok

[neverdie]

^ Skippy, you talk about a 18-200mm lense, which one are you using? You refer to image stabilisation, is that Vibration reduction?

I had considered going again for a lense like this, however the aperture speeds tend to suffer, which can be an issue when taking photos in poor light. Must admit that we do alot of that around sunrise/sunset, there seems to be so much lurking around at that time.

I have been told that some of these other lenses I have been looking at will out perform the lenses like 18-200mm, both in speed and quality. I HAVE NO IDEA what kind of difference it will really make though?

Once again, wouldnt it be nice if you could test a selection of lenses for a month or so, then just go back and buy the ones you liked the most .....in a perfect world.

Thanks for your imput....are you a cannon man?

[Tywais]

Used to spend alot of time looking at it....... had all kinds........ but have one lens which i love - the 18-200mm with image stabilisation.

That's the lens I'm interested in if I go ahead with the D90. Is it this one? > Viewfindercamera.com at a surprising price of 22,900 versus most other sites quoting 31,000.

If so, do you find the minimum F3.5 a problem? I guess with a good high ISO camera it may not be except perhaps DOF.

[skippybangkok]

Ken Rockwell

(read)

He starts of with "its a miracle", followed by he replaced his old kit. I did the same, sold all my old lenses..............

I was worried about the appetures, but the VR compensates for that. I was sitting in a hotel lobby , bit darkish waiting for some one, and tried my new lens, and the 200mm fixed lens ( forgot which one, but it was a top lens, i think f2.8 ). The 18-200 VR won hands down. So dont worry about that.

My lens is already 3+ years old....maybe there are newer betterones out....... but this 18-200 is a real jewel.

Not Cannon, but from what i have read, they outperform Nikon these days. I have several nikon lenses already, so am not going to change.

[neverdie]

the 14-24 is maybe too expensive for the amount of use it gets, maybe have a look at the Sigma 10-20 mm if you buy the D300, not if you were to go for the full frame D700

Tingnongnoi,

You are very correct about that. That type of lense would be last on my list, but a Sigma 10-20mm is about 19,000 baht verses the Nikkor one at about 60,000 baht, so considering the amount of use it would get, the Sigma would be the way to go PRICE WISE, at least.

Again, I feel the D700 is out of my price range and well beyond my ability. I had a look at it the other day in Bkk and its HUGE too, feels too big for me.

[neverdie]

Ken Rockwell

(read)

He starts of with "its a miracle", followed by he replaced his old kit. I did the same, sold all my old lenses..............

I was worried about the appetures, but the VR compensates for that. I was sitting in a hotel lobby , bit darkish waiting for some one, and tried my new lens, and the 200mm fixed lens ( forgot which one, but it was a top lens, i think f2.8 ). The 18-200 VR won hands down. So dont worry about that.

My lens is already 3+ years old....maybe there are newer betterones out....... but this 18-200 is a real jewel.

Not Cannon, but from what i have read, they outperform Nikon these days. I have several nikon lenses already, so am not going to change.

I have been reading that skippy in the Nikon promotional stuff where THEY REAKON that VR on the lense allows for the equivalent of shooting at speed three stops faster. I thought it my be typical promotion type hype.

I did look at that lense you were talking about and was also told it was 31,900, so that site where its 23k is a bargin, looks like MBK.....not a copy, i hope

[neverdie]

Used to spend alot of time looking at it....... had all kinds........ but have one lens which i love - the 18-200mm with image stabilisation.

That's the lens I'm interested in if I go ahead with the D90. Is it this one? > Viewfindercamera.com at a surprising price of 22,900 versus most other sites quoting 31,000.

If so, do you find the minimum F3.5 a problem? I guess with a good high ISO camera it may not be except perhaps DOF.

Thats why I was looking at the other lenses, with F2.8.

I'm starting to wonder if that price of 22,900 is a typo, because i checked a number of shops in bkk the other day and they were all around the 32k mark for that lense.

Here is the review on that Lense Tywais, I am sure you have probably already seen it.

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/nikon_...5p6_vr_afs_n15/

Edited July 12, 2009 by neverdie

[skippybangkok]

Well, my trial was at full zoom in a corner of the lobby......... same lighting conditions, same zoom - the VR was miles better which really took me by suprise.

Price wise...... MBK has the grey market, and the proper Nikon dealer. I have had problems with warrantee with the greymarket, and these days go for the Nikon shop on 3rd floor (?) . Gives me a more comfortable feeling.

[moneyshot]

You can get the Nikkon DX18-200mm VR lens for 21,500 Baht in Pantip Plaza... http://www.digitallifethailand.com/ptshop/...?id_category=10

This shop sells only grey market camera gear... They are very professional and offer a warrantee service although you need to take it back to their shop.

I have never had a problem with a lens and feel comfortable buying from them for a much better price.

They have a D300 with the 18-200 lens for 68k

And the D90 is 29,500 body only...

;-)

[skippybangkok]

for 21 - get it.

[neverdie]

You can get the Nikkon DX18-200mm VR lens for 21,500 Baht in Pantip Plaza... http://www.digitallifethailand.com/ptshop/...?id_category=10

This shop sells only grey market camera gear... They are very professional and offer a warrantee service although you need to take it back to their shop.

I have never had a problem with a lens and feel comfortable buying from them for a much better price.

They have a D300 with the 18-200 lens for 68k

And the D90 is 29,500 body only...

;-)

Having only ever bought the real stuff from real Nikon dealers, I don't even understand what the 'Grey Market' stuff is.

If you read that review on the Nikkor 18-200, the results are fairly poor, I guess the price is right.

[moneyshot]

You can get the Nikkon DX18-200mm VR lens for 21,500 Baht in Pantip Plaza... http://www.digitallifethailand.com/ptshop/...?id_category=10

This shop sells only grey market camera gear... They are very professional and offer a warrantee service although you need to take it back to their shop.

I have never had a problem with a lens and feel comfortable buying from them for a much better price.

They have a D300 with the 18-200 lens for 68k

And the D90 is 29,500 body only...

;-)

Having only ever bought the real stuff from real Nikon dealers, I don't even understand what the 'Grey Market' stuff is.

If you read that review on the Nikkor 18-200, the results are fairly poor, I guess the price is right.

'Grey Market' just means it has slipped past customs without paying the Thai taxes... It is the exact same lens, no difference apart from you won't have a warrantee from Nikon Thailand.

I bought a Nikon D70 a few years back in Australia (ironically made in Thailand) and whilst in Thailand had a problem, I took it to the Nikon service centre on Silom and had to pay even though it should have been covered under warrantee because Nikon's warrantee is exclusive to the country you purchased the equipment in. Point is if you are travelling and have a problem don't expect it to be covered where ever you happen to be.

You should go check out that shop I mentioned and see what you think of them, they are very professional and offer a warrantee service through them. I bought a 50mm f/1.4g last month and paid about the same price as you would in the US. I'm not sure how many lens have problems that need taking back but I feel fairly comfortable buying 'grey market'.

As for the lens, Ken Rockwell has nothing but praise for the 18-200 but if you don't mind spending a bit of cash I would get the 24-70mm f/2.8 ;-)

[neverdie]

Thanks moneyshot, I've heard the term 'grey market' many times, but just assumed it had something to do with it not being original equipment.

That site you posted is all in thai, where the hel_l is that shop, I thought it was MBK, but its not, is it?

I would guess ur right about warranty, I wouldnt think lenses would be such a big warranty issue, more like camera bodies, so I guess I could consider going the better lense, grey market to save a few quid and the camera body from a Nikon Store. I saw a D300 the other day in a shop in Bkk for 52,900 & one of the online stores here have it for 52,500.

Thanks for the info & advice.

[kash]

I was worried about the appetures, but the VR compensates for that. I was sitting in a hotel lobby , bit darkish waiting for some one, and tried my new lens, and the 200mm fixed lens ( forgot which one, but it was a top lens, i think f2.8 ). The 18-200 VR won hands down. So dont worry about that.

You obviously have no clue whatsoever, you cannot compare a prime lense to a "compact camera extension lense".

[Tywais]

That site you posted is all in thai, where the hel_l is that shop, I thought it was MBK, but its not, is it?

Location information > http://www.digitallifethailand.com/ptshop/shop_001.html

Map below for Pantip:

And one for MBK:

[moneyshot]

The shop is in Pantip Plaza on the 3rd(?) floor I think... Have a look on the front page of the website down the right hand side http://www.digitallifethailand.com/ptshop/ there are some pictures of the store front... Looks like they have a few shops in Pantip.

;-)

[moneyshot]

And MBK...

Thanks Tywais :-)

[neverdie]

^^ THANKS to both of you. I will check it out this week.

My head is acheing, too much input ....its only a little head

[Bard]

Yo neverdie,

I agree that the D300 is getting old, and is probably due for a new model very soon however it's one of the best cameras you can buy so you won't regret it.

Lenses, as above buy one use it to the fullest and see where you miss more, you miss longer lens or maybe shorter. Then buy another one, when you get VR you won't go back to non-VR it is a lifesaver, absolutely brilliant.

Good luck with new camera and lens have fun...

[Tywais]

Since Kash brought up the subject of Prime lens (though a bit harshly) I added the subject to the dSLR pinned topic > Prime Lenses

[neverdie]

Since Kash brought up the subject of Prime lens (though a bit harshly) I added the subject to the dSLR pinned topic > Prime Lenses

So Tywais, Ive read that information (well most of it) & it takes me back to my original question about my current lense debarkle.

I'm still likeing the idea of my 24-70mm with the fixed apeture of 2.8. Its a few baht over 60,000, but this type of lense gets a mention in the above posted article. I still like the idea of a zoom lense, YET, perhaps I should abandon all of this and go for a good quality prime lense of 50mm, with apeture of 1.4 or something.

Is 1.4 to 2.8, considered ONE STOP on the scale?? I may have missed that when speed reading .

I may be OVER doing something here, I have never seen the gf use a flash before, she dislikes flash photography. I don't want the 18-200 zoom where the f number at zoom is going to be 5.6 or whatever & for most situations the f/2.8 of the 24-70 lense is going to be more than adequate.

Edited July 12, 2009 by neverdie

[neverdie]

Answering my own questions, interesting. It really doesnt pay to skip around articles when ur searching for particular information.

apertures of f/1.7 or f/1.8, are 1/2 stop slower than the f/1.4 lenses, but still very fast compared to a zoom. apertures of f/1.7 or f/1.8, are 1/2 stop slower than the f/1.4 lenses, but still very fast compared to a zoom.

[Tywais]

Is 1.4 to 2.8, considered ONE STOP on the scale?? I may have missed that when speed reading .

A standard F-stop sequence:

1.4 2.0 2.8 4 5.6 8 11 16 22

Each stop is 1/2 light of the previous stop. In this case going from 1.4 to 2.0 reduces light by half, then from 2.0 to 2.8 another half. Thus, going from 1.4 to 2.8 would change the amount of light by 1/4. Or conversely, from 2.8 to 1.4 will give 4 times the amount of light.

Probably more then you want to absorb at the moment > tedius explanation

[neverdie]

Tywais, Something that was mentioned earlier in relation to that lense the 18-200mm with the VR & I commented about VR allowing 3-4 f stops down....is mentioned in that article you posted above & in the pinned thread.

My lens or camera has Image Stabilization and it's worth 2 stops. What does that mean?

To be clear, it does not mean that more light comes through the lens.

What this means is that the IS will allow you to hold the camera steady at a slower shutter speed without body-motion-induced blur.