435 Bangkok Schools To Close July 15-19

[leebeeUK]

I'm teaching in Chiang Mai and we've got 4+ unconfirmed cases of the flu in our school... steady increase of teachers and students wearing masks... not the soft cotton ones you see on the street, but (hopefully) better surgical ones distributed medically. Still, some teachers - and obviously the general public - seem to think its all a bit of a joke, something you see on TV: 'I'm not scared, hahaha' seems to be a prevailing thought! And then they don't understand why Thailand is the worst affected Asian country.. anything to protect, I'd have thought, even if only a little, has to be of benefit, especially as it seems to have been pretty ruthless on those with a previous 'weakness', whatever age, eg, the 30 year old 'obese' guy who sadly died a few days ago...

[connel707]

Shame the Thai Government didn't spent more time and energy sorting out the road toll !!!!!

what has a private toll, got to do with the flu outbreak,,,trust a Kiwi to think about a few baht...!!!!!

[Scott]

I think gunnyd is correct when he says "But I get the feeling that politicians are running this circus, not medical professionals." Doing something is quite different from doing something right. Politicians are interested in their image first. For many, constituents are pretty low on the priority list.

The gov't can close any place they want to, but it should be based on facts about transmission. I would be interested in the % of cases that have been caught at tutorial schools or internet shops. My guess is they don't have a clue and haven't made an attempt to trace transmissions. Politically, these are simply easy and 'soft' targets. Owners aren't politically powerful.

Closing the BMA schools. I have no idea if it's a good idea or not, but I am suspicious that if it is based on something significant then that closure should be extended to all schools.

This needs monitoring and guidance from trained medical professionals, not the clowns in the circus.

[ironhut]

As G.Bush and his OMS' friends said: You gotta get Tamilflu, massively and quickly.

The problem is Tamiflu is an uneffective drug with a lot of secondary effects that belongs to Gilead Science, a company owned by ..... Dick Cheney!

Got it ?

what?

why do people continue to insist on bashing bush (cheney in this case) with biased suggestive nonsense in thaivisa posts?

go away.

[Ga-gai]

As G.Bush and his OMS' friends said: You gotta get Tamilflu, massively and quickly.

The problem is Tamiflu is an uneffective drug with a lot of secondary effects that belongs to Gilead Science, a company owned by ..... Dick Cheney!

Got it ?

Same with aspartame, the sweetening that also works as rat poison. The substance got approved as a food additive just because the company made their own tests and "proved" that it was safe for humans. It will also work fine for killing rats, which independent researches have proved. So who own the company that makes aspartame? Well... It's the good old Donald Rumsfeld.

Donald was the Secretary of Defense under President Gerald Ford from 1975 to 1977, and the 21st Secretary of Defense under President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2006.

No wonder that aspartame got approved then...

I'll can see some kind of pattern betweens the Bush family's way of running private businesses while being in political position and how Thaksin ran his private business at the same time being the priminister. Didn't those two know each other btw? The only difference is the the later one wasn't cautious enough to get away with it.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Ga-gai

[baht&sold]

PM rules out draconian measures to contain H1N1 spread

BANGKOK, July 15 (TNA) – Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Tuesday affirmed the government would not yet take draconian measures to contain the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic.

Speaking after the Cabinet meeting, he said his government would not yet impose such exceedingly harsh measures as temporary closure of schools and entertainment places and suspension of social activities as part of efforts to fight the spread of the new virus strain.

Instead, it would place a great emphasis on screening and giving care to H1N1 flu patients.

The government will rely upon the diligence and ethics of Thailand's medical professionals, public officials and citizens to respond to the challenge of the pandemic without officially closing such a range of public places.

“Should schoolchildren and personnel in state agencies and private companies become ill from the H1N1 influenza, they can leave without having to submit a sick leave and a medical certificate.

“We will rather keep watch on patients because we have the view the proposed closure of schools and entertainment places is not a key solution to the problem. It can neither guarantee the schoolchildren or personnel will stay home,” said the premier.

Article Link

[hhiser]

<br />

Why are they in a panic? Those who died have their previous diseases other than H1N1. <br /><br />There are more deaths with other diseases in other countries, such as dengue fever.

<br /><br />The main concern about this one is the kill ratio that it currently appears to have. Common Flu is far more widespread for the moment, and therefore appears to kill a lot more, and like Dengue fever therefore appears to be of greater concern. The thing is that it seems that more people that catch this one are dying (some stats have it as high as 5% whilst common flu is below 1%). Therefore preventing the spread (or attempting too) is a rational step. The WHO are saying that its too late to prevent it though, so it does seem like this is a reaction after the horse has not only bolted, but has made it to the next field, mated, raised a championship winning foal and is now off to glue factory.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

What are you talking about? If you are saying swine flu mortality is 5% you should really read te stats availbale from the WHO (# deaths/# of cases)*100%= (429/94512)*100%~0.45% worldwide from last report 6 July. Thailand (7/2076)*100%~ 0.33% from the same reporting period.

If on the other hand you are referring to dengue fever here is a small blurb from the Wiki:

In Singapore, there are 4,000–5,000 reported cases of dengue fever or dengue haemorrhagic fever every year. In the year 2004, there were seven deaths from dengue shock syndrome[17].

So if we take 4,000 as the number of cases, then (7/4000)*100%~ 0.175%

So the question remains where will this kids go? Stay at home? Go to the nearest internet cafe? Big C, Lotus (Tesco for the Anglos), Carrefour? We shall see!

[webfact]

<br />

Why are they in a panic? Those who died have their previous diseases other than H1N1. <br /><br />There are more deaths with other diseases in other countries, such as dengue fever.

<br /><br />The main concern about this one is the kill ratio that it currently appears to have. Common Flu is far more widespread for the moment, and therefore appears to kill a lot more, and like Dengue fever therefore appears to be of greater concern. The thing is that it seems that more people that catch this one are dying (some stats have it as high as 5% whilst common flu is below 1%). Therefore preventing the spread (or attempting too) is a rational step. The WHO are saying that its too late to prevent it though, so it does seem like this is a reaction after the horse has not only bolted, but has made it to the next field, mated, raised a championship winning foal and is now off to glue factory.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

What are you talking about? If you are saying swine flu mortality is 5% you should really read te stats availbale from the WHO (# deaths/# of cases)*100%= (429/94512)*100%~0.45% worldwide from last report 6 July. Thailand (7/2076)*100%~ 0.33% from the same reporting period.

If on the other hand you are referring to dengue fever here is a small blurb from the Wiki:

In Singapore, there are 4,000–5,000 reported cases of dengue fever or dengue haemorrhagic fever every year. In the year 2004, there were seven deaths from dengue shock syndrome[17].

So if we take 4,000 as the number of cases, then (7/4000)*100%~ 0.175%

So the question remains where will this kids go? Stay at home? Go to the nearest internet cafe? Big C, Lotus (Tesco for the Anglos), Carrefour? We shall see!

my bet - internet cafe!

[baht&sold]

BMA closes schools to halt flu

Abhisit opposed, saying kids will gather in malls

Bangkok Post July 15, 2009

City Hall has ordered the temporary closure of its schools despite scepticism from the cabinet that the measure will curb the spread of A (H1N1) flu.

Students atWat MahantharamSchool in Bangkok’s Phra Nakhon district walk past a notice announcing the school’s closure from today to Sunday. It is one of more than 400 schools under the BangkokMetropolitan Administration’s supervision ordered closed for a clean-up to curb the spread of influenza type-A (H1N1). APICHART JINAKUL

All 435 schools, as well as 200 daycare centres and 13 vocational training centres run by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), will be shut from today to Sunday. But schools in Bangkok and other provinces run by the Education Ministry will remain open.

The BMA's decision came after the flu death toll reached 24 and Bangkok topped other provinces in the number of type-A (H1N1) infections.

BMA spokesman Taradol Piempongsant said the closure of BMA-run education facilities was essential to stopping the virus spreading in the capital.

The BMA plans to distribute 2 million face masks to city residents and it will encourage Bangkokians to wear the protective gear in public areas, whether or not they have the disease.

"This is the best prevention measure," Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra said.

Bangkok MPs and councillors will be asked to distribute 10,000 face masks to constituents by the end of this week.

City Hall's decision to close schools went against the cabinet resolution which vetoed proposals to close schools nationwide and call an early end to the current semester. It said the measure would not stop the flu's spread.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said after the cabinet meeting he did not think school closures would end virus transmission among children who would likely hang out in other crowded places such as online game shops and shopping malls when they were off school.

"The most effective way to curb infections is keeping sick people at home," the prime minister said.

Speaking on a special programme on the A (H1N1) outbreak broadcast live on government-run Channel 11 last night, Mr Abhisit did not rule out the possibility of ordering a nationwide closure of schools and other public places at some future date.

"But such measures will be implemented only when the situation is right. Over-reacting will do more harm than good," he said.

Mr Abhisit said the government is focusing on screening and improving treatment for very ill flu patients.

But Public Health Minister Witthaya Kaewparadai backed the BMA's decision to close the schools, saying that flu response measures should be considered at a local level as the outbreak's severity was different from place to place.

"It's unreasonable to close every school in the country when the outbreak is particularly serious in big cities, including Bangkok. Local administration organisations should come up with measures that suit the situation," he said.

Article Continues

[madi]

THERE IS no PANIC or closing of schools in Europe, North and South America, Africa, Australia, or in the rest of Asia.

So what is up with Thailand?

I am watching sporting events all over the world and I see no one wearing useless stuff over their faces. Schools are still open.

I am not saying that this flue outbreak is not serious but I am saying that Thailand seems to be in a panic.

Could it be that the government is using this flue outbreak to keep large groups from forming?

It is a convenient excuse.

But anyway--I hope the outbreak does not get bad.

Looks to me that it will certainly destroy what little is left of the Thai tourist business if it were to become a REAL outbreak.

I bet a lot of foreigners are considering leaving the land of smiles.

Good idea

[baht&sold]

THERE IS no PANIC or closing of schools in Europe, North and South America, Africa, Australia, or in the rest of Asia.

So what is up with Thailand?

What's up with the panic in Thailand? The panic is in great part a result of the concerted effort by Mr Thaksin's proxy Puea Thai spokespersons plus their proxies the reds all whipping up flu-fear frenzy the past few weeks all in the 'hopes' of creating further instability, killing off what's left of tourism, further harming the economy and scaring the wits out of unwitting Thais- and apparently some Expats who should know better (except those who agree with this strategy and in which case are probably enjoying this). All in an effort to cynically take advantage of a political 'opportunity'. Bloody well done at that.

[leebeeUK]

Fact is, Thailand is the worst affected Asian country. And its mainly because the govt isn't actually really doing anything but throw a few masks and close a few schools to look like they're on to it!!! Most of the people aren't in panic, beacause its just not the Thai way... they'll worry if someone in their family gets it seriously!! "I am not scared" I've already been told by a laughingly smug Thai teacher and that seems to be the consensus... if you're concerned then you're a wus!! &lt;deleted&gt;?? Fear has nothing to do with it and people saying the only pandemic is hysteria don't know what the word means!! It isn't about severity, just that it can spread to anywhere... which cannot be doubted... it can also kill... which cannot be doubted... (albeit most likely if you're already not in good shape!!)... I don't know what effective preventative measures really are, but they obviously aren't happening here... but a bit of perspective is in order... it's real and worth protecting yourself and against transmission to others... the operative (and largely missing) word is aforethought, methinks!!

[AnaisNin]

Thai government can bully schools, but not shopping malls (including cinemas).

Mark is right. Student will hand out in malls instead, because parents are off working. So, instead of confining the virus in school, it will now spread to the general public at a faster rate.

This is just my view, and I am sure many will disagree.

[toptuan]

This has all been a shameful display of competition for attention between the media and the WHO since it began. Now all levels of Thai government want to get into the act -- first they talk about closing the borders -- now they want to close the schools in BKK. More publicity -- MORE PANIC !

Who will panic? Only the great, unwashed masses....

[baht&sold]

Fact is, Thailand is the worst affected Asian country.

And its mainly because the govt isn't actually really doing anything but throw a few masks and close a few schools to look like they're on to it!!!

Fact 1: That's simply nonsense. Please post the reported statistics from Laos, Burma and Cambodia- just for starters! Regardless, the fatality rate in Thailand is on par with the rest of the planet (ie; same as regular flu).

Fact 2: The Thai Govt HAS been issuing constant statements via the Health Ministry for WEEKS, advising proper hygiene and other precautions. Unfortunately this has been lost in the NOISE, with reds surrounding hospitals in the N/NE and Puea Thai spokespersons 'helpfully' whipping up irrational flu-fear, along with the local media (and websites) SCREAMING 'breaking news' seemingly every 5 minutes in a flu ratings bonanza!

It's extremely unfortunate the Thai Govt has been left with little choice but to WASTE limited time and resources on PACIFYING a public 'opportunistically' whipped into IRRATIONAL flu-fear by some, at the EXPENSE of those at greatest risk. Limited resources are better focused on high-risk groups, NOT on 'pacifying' Thais (or especially Expats, who SHOULD be better informed!)

[bungy007]

I think gunnyd is correct when he says "But I get the feeling that politicians are running this circus, not medical professionals." Doing something is quite different from doing something right. Politicians are interested in their image first. For many, constituents are pretty low on the priority list.

The gov't can close any place they want to, but it should be based on facts about transmission. I would be interested in the % of cases that have been caught at tutorial schools or internet shops. My guess is they don't have a clue and haven't made an attempt to trace transmissions. Politically, these are simply easy and 'soft' targets. Owners aren't politically powerful.

Closing the BMA schools. I have no idea if it's a good idea or not, but I am suspicious that if it is based on something significant then that closure should be extended to all schools.

This needs monitoring and guidance from trained medical professionals, not the clowns in the circus.

Agreed. It's just a knee-jerk reaction without any hard data to back up such a general rationale. Though it is fair to say that schools won't be punished financially as the students have already paid their fees, the tutorial schools do have committments to meet such as salaries, rent, electricity etc. Thus such decisions to close them without any hard data to justify individual closures is irresponsible, to say the least

[rajuismythainame]

very good step by thai govt....

[webfact]

very good step by thai govt....

you mean to close a few schools in Bangkok?

[bungy007]

very good step by thai govt....

... a haphazardous approach is better than nothing, you mean?

Edited July 15, 2009 by bungy007

[MaiChai]

My kids school is still open. My kids school has much higher educated teachers than the government norm (they have to have higher grade passes to get the job, in return they get more money, cleverer children and less kids to teach). This is just a load of hype. What don't they close down shopping malls, bus/train stations, cancel public transport, and close anything else where lots of people meet? This is just government wanting to show they are doing something.

If you fancy catching H1N1, I recon the most likely place you can get it is Platinum Mall in Patunam Lets close the airports too and ban foreigners from coming into Thailand too.

[Scott]

Well, it's good to see the anti-Taksin crowd is out. He's now even responsible for the A(H1N1) flu. A very, very powerful person indeed!.

[Pawpcorn]

Fact is, Thailand is the worst affected Asian country. And its mainly because the govt isn't actually really doing anything but throw a few masks and close a few schools to look like they're on to it!!! Most of the people aren't in panic, beacause its just not the Thai way... they'll worry if someone in their family gets it seriously!! "I am not scared" I've already been told by a laughingly smug Thai teacher and that seems to be the consensus... if you're concerned then you're a wus!! &lt;deleted&gt;?? Fear has nothing to do with it and people saying the only pandemic is hysteria don't know what the word means!! It isn't about severity, just that it can spread to anywhere... which cannot be doubted... it can also kill... which cannot be doubted... (albeit most likely if you're already not in good shape!!)... I don't know what effective preventative measures really are, but they obviously aren't happening here... but a bit of perspective is in order... it's real and worth protecting yourself and against transmission to others... the operative (and largely missing) word is aforethought, methinks!!

I think you've made an intelligent post; As a farang teacher here in Thailand, I come in contact with around 800 students of all ages, every week, from children to adults. I don't want to have too casual ("What, me worry?") approach to this, nor a panicked response, either... and much less, desire to be the "tail of the dog" to some possible political fear mongers. I mean, what intelligent self-aware person wants to be duped by manipulation???

I WILL say that it scares the crap out of me to sit in a tiny private instruction room, three feet away from a young adult student who is sneezing and coughing... why they just won't stay home (or why their parents won't keep them home) is beyond me. So far, I've done this maskless, but I think I should probably change my approach to this, you think? AND maybe offer a disposable mask to my affected student.

Prior to the publicity about this situation, I did TWICE catch the flu, a few months back, so God knows what it was at the time, or if I'm at least partially immunized, at this point in time. The conversations about the dangers of the developed flu innoculations have scared me away from being inoculated for the flu, during my adult life. My approach has been that I'd rather catch the real thing, yearly, to develop the natural immunities... and perhaps take a course of antibiotics, if needed, a number of days into the ordeal, to help curb the secondary infections of sinuses, throat and lungs, that are so diabilitating.

I personally seek to maintain a balanced position, given the best available information.

The fact that there is a Google map showing world wide infection and death rates was posted earlier, but this has been relocated to http://flutracker.rhizalabs.com/

It is accurate as to July 13, two days ago, at this moment. What an amazing ability to see actual (reported(!)) cases and deaths from H1N1 around the world!!!

And it IS interesting to see that Thailand DOES rate significantly higher than any other Asian country.

I captured two screen shots which I think TV readers may find interesting:

Asian infections / deaths:

World statistics for past 30 days:

In any case, tomorrow morning, I'm off to Cha Am, to enjoy a miniature day and a half vacation, courtesy of the BMA! Cheers!

[Thai at Heart]

At my children's school they are taking the temperature of the kids every morning. If they are running an apparent high temperature, home they go. My son got sent home this morning and is running around enjoying his free holiday. However, yesterday in his class one girl pitched coughing and spluttering and straight home she went. So better to be safe than sorry.

I don't think they could do this in a large govt school, but parents must stop sending their kids to school coughing and spluttering.

Admittedly it is a small private school, but they are trying.

[Old Man River]

At my children's school they are taking the temperature of the kids every morning. If they are running an apparent high temperature, home they go. My son got sent home this morning and is running around enjoying his free holiday. However, yesterday in his class one girl pitched coughing and spluttering and straight home she went. So better to be safe than sorry.

I don't think they could do this in a large govt school, but parents must stop sending their kids to school coughing and spluttering.

Admittedly it is a small private school, but they are trying.

You realize you are agreeing with Abhisit who said "The most effective way to curb infections is keeping sick people at home."

[baht&sold]

And it IS interesting to see that Thailand DOES rate significantly higher than any other Asian country

Don't suppose Thailand has been a tad more forthright in regional reporting than others?

Indonesia: Population approx 240 million = 70 cases/ 1 death (??)

India: Population approx 1.5 billion = 111 cases / 5 deaths (??)

Burma: Population approx 55 million = 1 case / 0 deaths (??)

Cambodia: Population approx 7 million = 4 cases / 0 deaths (??)

Laos: Population approx 7 million = 3 cases / 0 deaths (??)

Benchmark:

Canada: Population approx 34 million = 9,700 cases (as of today) / 41 deaths

Thailand: Population approx 64 million = 4973 cases / 24 deaths

It's little wonder Thailand has a higher death rate than Canada, given almost double population,

very poor health care and likely a higher proportion of people with underlying medical conditions.

(declaring 30 baht healthcare to all and ignoring a crippled system does not make one a 'Dr')

-As an aside, one wonders why more teachers don't simply send sick kids home as suggested by the PM?

Also, if people are so concerned, is it safe to travel even to the corner store given the the flu IS everywhere?

(or is it more sensible to take common sense precautions and get on with one's life;)

ER, Scott, best cover your eyes, don't want you to have kittens reading some of this...

unfortunate 'your' Dr Thaksin and Health Minister Chalerm aren't in charge, surely all would be resolved - just like magic!

ala: 'No 70% fatality bird flu here' and 'No toxic chinese baby milk here' experts (of denial;)

Edited July 15, 2009 by baht&sold

[webfact]

Just came home from a walk... and have something to report.

I live in the Sathorn area not far from some so called "elite schools". Guess these are private schools and colleges.

Business as usual with the daily traffic jam caused by parents waiting to pick up their children... Nothing has changed!

Now I ask myself are these kids more protected or in more danger than the pupils in the 435 closed schools?

Edited July 15, 2009 by webfact

[Thai at Heart]

At my children's school they are taking the temperature of the kids every morning. If they are running an apparent high temperature, home they go. My son got sent home this morning and is running around enjoying his free holiday. However, yesterday in his class one girl pitched coughing and spluttering and straight home she went. So better to be safe than sorry.

I don't think they could do this in a large govt school, but parents must stop sending their kids to school coughing and spluttering.

Admittedly it is a small private school, but they are trying.

You realize you are agreeing with Abhisit who said "The most effective way to curb infections is keeping sick people at home."

Ummmm. In what situation would anyone recommend that if you are sick you shouldn't stay at home global pandemic or not? Closing the schools completely is a different issue. I doubt it will have a big effect.

But, having spoken to many teachers, they get exceedingly frustrated when kids come to school when they are obviously sick and proceed to make the entire class sick. I have had numerous discussions with teachers at my kid's school and friends of mine who are teachers and they have been pulling their hair out about it for years.

School is not a babysitter, and I whilst it is inevitable that kids/all of us get sick from time to time, why would anyone particularly in the current or any other situation think that the correct thing to do is to go and cough and splutter all over your classmates or colleagues?

[Old Man River]

At my children's school they are taking the temperature of the kids every morning. If they are running an apparent high temperature, home they go. My son got sent home this morning and is running around enjoying his free holiday. However, yesterday in his class one girl pitched coughing and spluttering and straight home she went. So better to be safe than sorry.

I don't think they could do this in a large govt school, but parents must stop sending their kids to school coughing and spluttering.

Admittedly it is a small private school, but they are trying.

You realize you are agreeing with Abhisit who said "The most effective way to curb infections is keeping sick people at home."

Ummmm. In what situation would anyone recommend that if you are sick you shouldn't stay at home global pandemic or not? Closing the schools completely is a different issue. I doubt it will have a big effect.

But, having spoken to many teachers, they get exceedingly frustrated when kids come to school when they are obviously sick and proceed to make the entire class sick. I have had numerous discussions with teachers at my kid's school and friends of mine who are teachers and they have been pulling their hair out about it for years.

School is not a babysitter, and I whilst it is inevitable that kids/all of us get sick from time to time, why would anyone particularly in the current or any other situation think that the correct thing to do is to go and cough and splutter all over your classmates or colleagues?

Sorry. The comment was made "tongue in cheek."

[sunsetlover]

Most of this, if not all of this, would have been avoided if the US had closed its border with Mexico, and the US and Canada banned all flights to and from Mexico, in the VERY FIRST days. ALL of the early reported cases in the US and Canada were of kids vacationing in Mexico and bringing the virus back to their schools. Also, why close the border? Hate to put it bluntly, but most Mexicans travel to the US, not Guatemala!

Once the virus spread in the US and Canada, it was impossible to control it. Almost all the FIRST new cases in the third world are from Americans/Canadians traveling and from locals coming back from the US and Canada.

It's a chain reaction, it had to be cut at the source, it wasn't. Reasons? political. The US played "politically correct" with Mexico.

[swiss kiwi]

does this apply to universities as well or only schools?

Yes, I'm wondering if it applies to private schools as well?

There is a lot more to this swine flu epidemic than we are being told via the mainstream media. Google 'Jane Burgermeister' to find out more.