My Wife's Miscarriage

[EndofDays]

It was a child for me too. I will give her all the support that I can. Part of me believes I should have raced to Thailand, not actually race because it would take me a week to get from here to there. But my wife is so adamant that I stay here and finish work. My regular vacation time is in September and she wants me to wait then to come see her. She even said she is the boss now. I always kidded to her that she was the boss when dealing with buying things because it is your money and now she says she is the boss and for me to stay here and just come see her when I go on vacation. It will be an unusual meeting as I am apprehensive of how to act or if she will act differently. She will probably be her bubbly self.

Oddly, this post reminded me of when my father passed. I visited him for the final time in the morning and the last thing he told me was that I was not to return to the funeral because I needed to be with "your kids" (I was a school principal) because "they need you. It's your purpose in life." He made me promise that, even though I strenuously objected. After extracting the promise, he told me he would pass as soon as I got home...a 6.5 hour drive. There's actually a lot more to the spooky side of this story, but suffice it to say that I arrived home at 6:00 p.m. He passed at 6:01.

I was criticized...well, condemned might be a better word...by some family members. But, do you break a promise you make someone on their death bed? I don't think so. And so I went to school on the day of his funeral...which wasn't easy...and then went to the Catholic Church (his faith and once mine) that evening.

After several years of reviewing the situation, I still think I did the right thing. I followed his wishes. I had to let go of my own desire to do what I wanted, and do what my father wanted me to do.

It seems in your posts that your wife is sincere in her wishes of how to handle the situation. Assuming that she is, I believe you should let go of the control and fulfill her wishes.

My best wishes for both of you.

That does sound a little spooky. Yes, she wants to prove, maybe to herself, that she can be the boss so I will follow her wishes. It is still hard for me becuase I am so used to being in control of things and from here I am totally NOT in control. I am sorry about your dad but he seems to have been very wise near the end.

[EndofDays]

for what its worth: miscarriages are not caused by a woman picking things up or carrying things unless they have been identified as having previous problems. thats why most women work in the fields or wherever they work until they give birth including me and all my women friends.

there is no real reason that u would have had to accompany your wife at five months pregnancy to go anywhere, since most women are not that large or cumbersome at that stage either.

no one really knows all the reasons for miscarriage, but often it is because of some defect in the fetus; hormonal problems, or other things that the doctors didnt see or werent noticed.

i was told when i almost lost my second child (when he was a two month old fetus) that it wouldnt matter if i stayed in bed rest or not, if i miscarried it would happen anyway, they suggested bed rest to help psychologically in that i would feel i was doing everything possible to prevent the miscarriage (i was in early pregnancy and the 'egg' had disengaged and moved in my womb. M. my son was happily stubborn and stuck around. but it easily could have gone the other way. )

there is no such thing as If only...., u couldnt be with her, she had to travel, end of story. now u have to help her and most of all help your self... if your wife is devout buddhist she will turn to the monks/wat on her own, and probably try to handle most of it on her own. also, dont underestimate the power of female family and friends (miscarriage is more common that u think just women dont discuss it with men, we discuss it with each other.)

the thai buddhists that i know DO see the unborn child as a person not as a sort of non entity. they do count them as children that just didnt make it out. so when discussing children, this baby will be included. (thai women friends all seemed to discuss their miscarriages using luk khon and not somthing more neutral. my husband's mother apparently miscarried and counts them among those of her children : 5 living children, three more died from diseases, two were miscarried. so remember that for your wife, this was indeed a child and not just a fetus.

as for your own feelings, well, i am not a man so cant help u there.

but in israel most folks here always say to wait a short time , and then retry as soon as possible barring other medical problems and advice from doctors. thai women dont like doctors (gyn ob, that is) so not sure how your wife is with that.

remember too that she will be going thru the usual hormonal changes that occur as if she gave regular full term birth; so hormones together with the loss of the child will be difficult.

sorry for your loss

bina

israel

The kicker was that I was going to tell my family in America about our child, that Bum was 5 mos pregnant on that very same dam_n day. I almost did it the day before but I wanted to wait to make sure my wife was in Thailand. So now they will never know as I have chosen not to tell them about the situation. There is no need for them to feel and go through any of this as well. Her side of the family was there for it but my side will reamain blisfully oblivious to it all. I envy them in that. Now, when we try again I'm not sure I should tell them right off the bat or tell them as we get closer to a "due" date. I'm sorry for your loss as well.

[bina]

first, i didnt , fortunately , lose my baby, he remained to full term after ins and outs and lots of ultrasounds, to be followed by my third child...

but was in what was called bed rest due to an 'almost'....

second, i think that it may be a mistake to not let your parents know about the miscarriage because at some point in time u might or your wife might mention something, or u might be more 'worried, concerned, and a bit over protective' of your wife the next pregnancy and they wont have a clue as to why; and when u will be aggravated by their asking u questions as to why the overprotection, u will either have to lie or tell them, and thye will be hurt that u didnt say in the beginning. u can tell them it happened, u dont have to go into all the details of how and where; just say it happend, your wife is being taken care of, she is upset as are u, but u hope that in the future there will be an other chance and it will make full term u will consult the doctors etc etc etc...

as for telling your parents , here in israel most of us wait til the third month since most natural miscarriages (10% chance every time to miscarry in a healthy young woman with no medical problems that are know about) occur up til the third month... as two of mine at my late age (now, with thai husband) have happened. its not traumactic but expected, at my age 47... apart form hormone treatments and stuff, this is my body's way of saying 'too late'. my mother would have a heart attack if i told her she's gonna be a grandmother again, and ive had three kids so, not a tragic problem for us...

just my thoughts, but in trying to spare people from pain, sometimes u cause more, later... these things happen, they wont blame u since they know u were at work, its not like u were off galavanting on some men's only fishing trip while wife had to move house by her self or something like that. i think u are overestimating their reactions. your mother was a mother, she knows woman's problems/pregancies , dont underestimate their ability to deal.

bina

israel

[EndofDays]

first, i didnt , fortunately , lose my baby, he remained to full term after ins and outs and lots of ultrasounds, to be followed by my third child...

but was in what was called bed rest due to an 'almost'....

second, i think that it may be a mistake to not let your parents know about the miscarriage because at some point in time u might or your wife might mention something, or u might be more 'worried, concerned, and a bit over protective' of your wife the next pregnancy and they wont have a clue as to why; and when u will be aggravated by their asking u questions as to why the overprotection, u will either have to lie or tell them, and thye will be hurt that u didnt say in the beginning. u can tell them it happened, u dont have to go into all the details of how and where; just say it happend, your wife is being taken care of, she is upset as are u, but u hope that in the future there will be an other chance and it will make full term u will consult the doctors etc etc etc...

as for telling your parents , here in israel most of us wait til the third month since most natural miscarriages (10% chance every time to miscarry in a healthy young woman with no medical problems that are know about) occur up til the third month... as two of mine at my late age (now, with thai husband) have happened. its not traumactic but expected, at my age 47... apart form hormone treatments and stuff, this is my body's way of saying 'too late'. my mother would have a heart attack if i told her she's gonna be a grandmother again, and ive had three kids so, not a tragic problem for us...

just my thoughts, but in trying to spare people from pain, sometimes u cause more, later... these things happen, they wont blame u since they know u were at work, its not like u were off galavanting on some men's only fishing trip while wife had to move house by her self or something like that. i think u are overestimating their reactions. your mother was a mother, she knows woman's problems/pregancies , dont underestimate their ability to deal.

bina

israel

That is something to think about. My wife made me promise that I would not tell my family. I will talk it over more with her when I visit her in September.

[a99az]

I am sure that we all here feel for you both, be strong for your wife the 8 weeks will pass quickly.

[Oscheck]

Hi Endofdays,

I wish you and your wife, love and happiness, to come over this tragic loss. When we get a blow in the face we tend to react and blame ourselves or others. Just cherish the nice feeling you had... That's all the baby needed, cherishing. When s/he got that, s/he left. Now, s/he was wanted, that was enough for him/her to settle the score, to be wanted...

When I met my wife, she had a red gold altar normally used to put on a Buddha, hanging on the side of her wardrobe. Clothes were hanging on it, she had cars, airplanes, puppets and other stuff that kids want, for her boy. When we went shopping she occasionally bought something for him. Not lost in a miscarriage, but taken from her after one year, by the father. And later he got a place together with the grandfather and grandmother of the house as a boy puppet, to receive merits through flowers, essence, water, and more gifts. It also gives a special feeling to Buddha days to merit him. Celebrating his birthday. He is still here, although we got our new boy, but just standing there at the moment, no more special merits. Standing at the side but maybe one day we'll meet him, but probably not. The gifts get new purposes, for her cousin, children visiting her, people we meet, children in the neighbourhood. Although he's not my boy, and I never met him, he's still here, to be cherished, sometimes that's all they want...

Chok dee

[EndofDays]

Hi Endofdays,

I wish you and your wife, love and happiness, to come over this tragic loss. When we get a blow in the face we tend to react and blame ourselves or others. Just cherish the nice feeling you had... That's all the baby needed, cherishing. When s/he got that, s/he left. Now, s/he was wanted, that was enough for him/her to settle the score, to be wanted...

When I met my wife, she had a red gold altar normally used to put on a Buddha, hanging on the side of her wardrobe. Clothes were hanging on it, she had cars, airplanes, puppets and other stuff that kids want, for her boy. When we went shopping she occasionally bought something for him. Not lost in a miscarriage, but taken from her after one year, by the father. And later he got a place together with the grandfather and grandmother of the house as a boy puppet, to receive merits through flowers, essence, water, and more gifts. It also gives a special feeling to Buddha days to merit him. Celebrating his birthday. He is still here, although we got our new boy, but just standing there at the moment, no more special merits. Standing at the side but maybe one day we'll meet him, but probably not. The gifts get new purposes, for her cousin, children visiting her, people we meet, children in the neighbourhood. Although he's not my boy, and I never met him, he's still here, to be cherished, sometimes that's all they want...

Chok dee

I haven't asked my wife if she has gone to the temple yet, I'm sure she has, but I don't want to upset her. She is just now getting to walk and I have to tell her to take it slow. She is trying to get things ready for the house we are renting. My concern is for how she will deal with it and not try to blame herself. I like what you said in your first paragraph and I hope that it was something like it. I'm a pretty cynical guy at times but I hope the baby went to a better place.

[EndofDays]

I am sure that we all here feel for you both, be strong for your wife the 8 weeks will pass quickly.

I'm lucky that time does feel to pass quickly here. All I do, is work, workout, eat and sleep but time does seem to fly. I wish that we got more time off from work but whoever wrote out contract screwed that all to heck.

[sabaijai]

I have nothing to add on the Buddhist side of things except to say I agree that Thai Buddhist meritmaking rituals do help some people cope with grief.

On a personal note, I wish you all the best in dealing with this sad event and moving on to happier events.

Neverdie, your image is safe with us

[EndofDays]

I have nothing to add on the Buddhist side of things except to say I agree that Thai Buddhist meritmaking rituals do help some people cope with grief.

On a personal note, I wish you all the best in dealing with this sad event and moving on to happier events.

Neverdie, your image is safe with us

Thanks for that note. I agree on NeverDie....if anybody asks about you, NeverDie, I will tell them you are a Hard-Born-Son-of-a-Buiscuit Eater whos only advice to me was to just "walk it off". Thanks everybody for thier sentiment. This is not something I will easily get over as I tend to dwell on things alot, especially over here where there isn't much to do but "dwell". I don't want to forget, actually, if that makes any sense. I want to think about everything I was going to teach the baby to do and how to be a good person. I want to think of those memories that now will never happen.

[geriatrickid]

Perhaps you may wish to consider a different approach than the karma aspect, to consider this as a vital part of life, unrelated to specific karma.

What I mean is that this event is a normal part of a woman's existence and comes with our form of reproduction. I do not mean to be flippant or disrespectful, but one of the downsides of how we reproduce is that miscarriage is an intrinsic part of the way we are made, and there is nothing one can do to change our biology. That's why I don't think any individual's karma can come into play.

Technically, almost almost half of of all pregnancies end up as miscarriages. In most cases the woman is unaware of the event, because the miscarriage happens very early in the pregnancy. Should a woman have any worse karma because she had the event occur later in the term than in the first few days or weeks? Because she is aware of it, should she feel more guilty than if she was not? Obviously, it is more traumatic for a woman, late in the term, but if one wishes to consider "blame" then one can be blamed just as equally if it happened in the first week. And yet, one wouldn't even consider the issue if it was in the first week.

What I'm trying to say, and I hope it hasn't come off as insensitive, is that karma, blame or anything else has no bearing on this. That doesn't mean someone won't have those emotions, just that if the process is understood, then the guilty feelings can be managed, because no should have to carry that kind of emotional burden.

In most cases with "normal" pegnancies, no one knows why a woman miscarries, just that it can be spontaneous. However, what we do know is that the miscarriage can act to save the woman's life. If the body isn't ready to carry through with a pregnancy or there is an auto immune response or stress on the vital organs, the miscarriage can happen. No amount of bed rest can change that. Is it bad karma if the event acts to save a person's life?

I've had a few of these events in my family and amongst friends and I have seen the wide range of the sad acceptance to the blaming and guilt. Your views sound alot like my cousin and she pulled her husband through one of these events. It was a painful couple of months, but they talked it out.

[phetaroi]

Perhaps you may wish to consider a different approach than the karma aspect, to consider this as a vital part of life, unrelated to specific karma.

...

What I'm trying to say, and I hope it hasn't come off as insensitive, is that karma, blame or anything else has no bearing on this. That doesn't mean someone won't have those emotions, just that if the process is understood, then the guilty feelings can be managed, because no should have to carry that kind of emotional burden.

The problem I have with your post is that it seems to ask people to simply discard their belief system. If you are Buddhist and believe in Karma (as I do...at least generally), you can't simply say, "Well I'll feel better if I dump this belief system."

[camerata]

As I understand it, "guilt" has no part in classical Buddhism. If you do something wrong and earn some demerit, you simply do your best to make sure you never do it again and you try to increase your store of merit. This also makes you feel better, as I have found from my own experience, i.e. it's an effective psychological tool. For Thais, it's even more effective because most of them see merit/karma as something you can change on a day to day basis. If you have "bad luck" today, you can make merit to "top up" your good karma and have good luck tomorrow.

In the case of a miscarriage, assuming the wife wasn't bungee jumping at 8 months, there shouldn't be any guilt - just grief at the loss of a child. Same with the husband. Karma is cause and effect. Classical Buddhism would say the grief of the wife and husband is a result of something bad they did in the past (probably a past life). It's like a debt that had to be paid. The short life of the unborn child would also be a result of something it did in a past life. However, in karmic terms, this seems like a slap on the wrist compared to an aeon in a hel_l-realm and most likely (my guess is) the child will immediately be reborn somewhere else in the world. In terms of material cause and effect, some set of biological/physical circumstances caused the miscarriage. There is no one to blame - not God, the world, or anyone else.

The reason non-Buddhists find karma unfair is because we don't remember what it was we did wrong in a former life. But not remembering doesn't mean we are not responsible. If we get smashed out of our mind on drugs or alcohol and kill someone but remember nothing about it (remember Sid Vicious waking up to find Nancy Spungen with a knife in her stomach?), we'd still accept the responsibility - a good reason for keeping the 5th Precept, IMO.

[clausewitz]

. Classical Buddhism would say the grief of the wife and husband is a result of something bad they did in the past (probably a past life). It's like a debt that had to be paid. The short life of the unborn child would also be a result of something it did in a past life.

Basically correct what cam says. However grief arises during the javana processs and is therefore not kammic result. It is something that is due to misunderstanding or attachment.

[camerata]

I guess it depends on what one considers to be the fruit of kamma. I use Ven. Payutto's definition:

1. The inner, mental level: the results kamma has within the mind itself, in the form of accumulated tendencies, both skillful and unskillful, and the quality of the mind, its experiences of happiness, suffering, and so on.

[EndofDays]

Perhaps you may wish to consider a different approach than the karma aspect, to consider this as a vital part of life, unrelated to specific karma.

What I mean is that this event is a normal part of a woman's existence and comes with our form of reproduction. I do not mean to be flippant or disrespectful, but one of the downsides of how we reproduce is that miscarriage is an intrinsic part of the way we are made, and there is nothing one can do to change our biology. That's why I don't think any individual's karma can come into play.

Technically, almost almost half of of all pregnancies end up as miscarriages. In most cases the woman is unaware of the event, because the miscarriage happens very early in the pregnancy. Should a woman have any worse karma because she had the event occur later in the term than in the first few days or weeks? Because she is aware of it, should she feel more guilty than if she was not? Obviously, it is more traumatic for a woman, late in the term, but if one wishes to consider "blame" then one can be blamed just as equally if it happened in the first week. And yet, one wouldn't even consider the issue if it was in the first week.

What I'm trying to say, and I hope it hasn't come off as insensitive, is that karma, blame or anything else has no bearing on this. That doesn't mean someone won't have those emotions, just that if the process is understood, then the guilty feelings can be managed, because no should have to carry that kind of emotional burden.

In most cases with "normal" pegnancies, no one knows why a woman miscarries, just that it can be spontaneous. However, what we do know is that the miscarriage can act to save the woman's life. If the body isn't ready to carry through with a pregnancy or there is an auto immune response or stress on the vital organs, the miscarriage can happen. No amount of bed rest can change that. Is it bad karma if the event acts to save a person's life?

I've had a few of these events in my family and amongst friends and I have seen the wide range of the sad acceptance to the blaming and guilt. Your views sound alot like my cousin and she pulled her husband through one of these events. It was a painful couple of months, but they talked it out.

I take the blame because, in my mind, I am the protector and should have been there. That is my cross to bare. What I don't want is for my wife to think that it was bad karma that cause the miscarriage and that is why I would rather have her blame me than herself. It is something we both will live with but we will get through it and I think we will be stronger for it.

[EndofDays]

As I understand it, "guilt" has no part in classical Buddhism. If you do something wrong and earn some demerit, you simply do your best to make sure you never do it again and you try to increase your store of merit. This also makes you feel better, as I have found from my own experience, i.e. it's an effective psychological tool. For Thais, it's even more effective because most of them see merit/karma as something you can change on a day to day basis. If you have "bad luck" today, you can make merit to "top up" your good karma and have good luck tomorrow.

In the case of a miscarriage, assuming the wife wasn't bungee jumping at 8 months, there shouldn't be any guilt - just grief at the loss of a child. Same with the husband. Karma is cause and effect. Classical Buddhism would say the grief of the wife and husband is a result of something bad they did in the past (probably a past life). It's like a debt that had to be paid. The short life of the unborn child would also be a result of something it did in a past life. However, in karmic terms, this seems like a slap on the wrist compared to an aeon in a hel_l-realm and most likely (my guess is) the child will immediately be reborn somewhere else in the world. In terms of material cause and effect, some set of biological/physical circumstances caused the miscarriage. There is no one to blame - not God, the world, or anyone else.

The reason non-Buddhists find karma unfair is because we don't remember what it was we did wrong in a former life. But not remembering doesn't mean we are not responsible. If we get smashed out of our mind on drugs or alcohol and kill someone but remember nothing about it (remember Sid Vicious waking up to find Nancy Spungen with a knife in her stomach?), we'd still accept the responsibility - a good reason for keeping the 5th Precept, IMO.

I believe in cause and effect but for what I have done. I was a soldeir and fought and war and "destroyed, neutralized or suppressed the enemy" but that is what a sodleir does. It was my duty and I fought an enemy in a face-to-face confrontation, so to speak. I am not sure if I want to ask my wife why she think she lost the baby. I have told her that it is not her fault and that it is a part of life and don't waste time trying to find a boogey man.

[EndofDays]

I guess it depends on what one considers to be the fruit of kamma. I use Ven. Payutto's definition:

1. The inner, mental level: the results kamma has within the mind itself, in the form of accumulated tendencies, both skillful and unskillful, and the quality of the mind, its experiences of happiness, suffering, and so on.

Way beyond me, people. I'm sure my wife would understand it. I am more of the "heathen" variety.

Edited July 30, 2009 by EndofDays

[camerata]

Way beyond me, people. I'm sure my wife would understand it. I am more of the "heathen" variety.

No worries. That was an answer to clausiwitz' post.

I have told her that it is not her fault and that it is a part of life and don't waste time trying to find a boogey man.

I'm sure your wife is distressed about this but I doubt she is feeling guilty (I don't think you have actually said she is feeling guilty) or trying to find someone to blame (as we Westerners tend to). In my experience, Thais just don't feel guilt about things as much as Westerners and the reason is they know bad things happen because of karma. That actually makes misfortune easier to bear. I doubt your wife will be feeling guilty because of some bad thing she might have done in a past life that resulted in a miscarriage. Most of the time we just can't see how karma works so there's no point in worrying about it. But a visit to the temple and some merit-making will definitely make her feel better. It will also help having family members around her, and I'm sure she appreciates your support even though you can't be there with her just yet.

[geriatrickid]

The problem I have with your post is that it seems to ask people to simply discard their belief system. If you are Buddhist and believe in Karma (as I do...at least generally), you can't simply say, "Well I'll feel better if I dump this belief system."

I'm not asking anyone to discard or dump their belief system. What I am offering is that an application to a specific event may not be appropriate if one understands what the mechanism of the event is. 2 aspects are lost in the discussion;

1. A miscarriage can be a lifesaving event. The human body and its chemistry is still the great unknown. Often the body will respond with what seems to be a great tragedy on the surface, but what can be a greater service when considered as part of the whole. Who knows what the outcome of the final event would have been. Many women die in childbirth and a miscarriage is considered by many reproductive health practioners to be an event whereby a woman's body acts to save itself. Tragic in the short term, but beneficial in the longterm. If one wants to say it was bad karma for the miscarriage, one can also say it was good karma if it meant that the woman survived. This could very well be a balanced event, couldn't it?

2. If we know that in a given population that certain events will happen, I do not understand how one can consider that luck or karma or fate has any bearing on the situation. We know that approx. 50-60% of newborns come down with jaundice. It is an accepted fact that people of east asian descent are a high risk group and their population skews the total population results upwards. If a child of east asian ancestory manifests jaundice, it is part of the reproductive cycle. That's just the way it is. This is why newborns have their bilirubin levels tested.

The logic is the same for the miscarriage. If one accepts that 50% of pregnancy events result in miscarriage (starting from the time of fertilization), then miscarriage is a known event and is part of the reproductive process. We know that the likelihood is greatest in the 1st few days of fertilization with it tapering to approx. 15% in the last trimester. If these were truly beyond our abilities to understand, we would not be able to predict their likelihood and in many cases intervene, would we? Our weakness is our inability to predict when it will occur. That weakness is due to our lack of knowledge about the biological process. If, in 10 years we can predict when these miscarriage events will occur and intervene to prevent them, does that change the concept? I believe your position is focused on the outcome: the negative outcome, when really the entire process must be considered.

Years ago, when a child was born with a heart defect it usually died. Now we can undertake heart surgery while the the fetus is developing. The event subsequent to the heart surgery ends with a positive outcome. If one one wished to apply absolutes, it would still be considered a negative event.

The individual event cannot be considered on its own because it part of a large event or if you will, life cycle. What happens as part of a childbirth event is a product of the way we were made as human beings. It is a part of our existence and our make up. An individual manifestation of the human mechanism is only a reflection of what we are as humans. If someone wishes to ascribe a label to a miscarriage event, then I suggest the issue should be placed on our physical design, because miscarriages are part of our natural existence. This is how we were made.

I don't think my views are in conflict with Camerata's interpretation. Obviously, not in agreement, but not in disagreement. A parallel.

[EndofDays]

Way beyond me, people. I'm sure my wife would understand it. I am more of the "heathen" variety.

No worries. That was an answer to clausiwitz' post.

I have told her that it is not her fault and that it is a part of life and don't waste time trying to find a boogey man.

I'm sure your wife is distressed about this but I doubt she is feeling guilty (I don't think you have actually said she is feeling guilty) or trying to find someone to blame (as we Westerners tend to). In my experience, Thais just don't feel guilt about things as much as Westerners and the reason is they know bad things happen because of karma. That actually makes misfortune easier to bear. I doubt your wife will be feeling guilty because of some bad thing she might have done in a past life that resulted in a miscarriage. Most of the time we just can't see how karma works so there's no point in worrying about it. But a visit to the temple and some merit-making will definitely make her feel better. It will also help having family members around her, and I'm sure she appreciates your support even though you can't be there with her just yet.

I will give her all the support that I can. I am just so used to "going into action" and "taking care of the problem". I felt hobbibly helpless and powerless. But maybe I can make sure that she will be taken care of it she is ever in that kind of situation again. I am making sure that she is getting the best Health Care insurance plan that I can get her in Thailand and that should all be taken care of by next week.

[visible]

The world will be directed by the law of Kamma.

[neverdie]

Endofdays,

Visible is a TROLL Poster and the best sort to ignore.

Visible, why don't you go play in the traffic, your post is thoughtless & isnt going to help EOD or his wife one bit, now wake up to yourself

[visible]

Endofdays,

Visible is a TROLL Poster and the best sort to ignore.

Visible, why don't you go play in the traffic, your post is thoughtless & isnt going to help EOD or his wife one bit, now wake up to yourself

You always remain your angry mind.

The real Buddhist is not hold the scripture, observance or ritual, any formulation but it depends on practicing way leadig to the complete cessation of suffering.

I do not angry you because the Buddha said one should win bitterness by unbitterness.

Edited August 11, 2009 by visible

[camerata]

Visible is a TROLL Poster and the best sort to ignore.

Visible, why don't you go play in the traffic, your post is thoughtless & isnt going to help EOD or his wife one bit, now wake up to yourself

Quit the name-calling and lighten up a bit. The OP came to the Buddhist forum to ask about the Buddhist perspective on his situation. Specifically, he asked, "I guess my question is, will wife see this loss as something to do with karma on my part or her part?" Any answer regarding karma is right on topic. Buddhists see everything as related to karma, whether you believe in it or not.

[EndofDays]

I want to thank everyone for their input. Recently, my wife went to the temple five mornngs in a row for baby. I assume to make merit. I think it helped her and that is all that I care about. I will be leaving to see her in about a month and maybe we will try again. Again, thanks to everyone.