Thailand Rejects Clinton Call To Expel Burma From Asean

[george]

Thailand rejects Clinton call to expel Burma from Asean

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- Thailand Prime Minisiter Abhisit Vejjajiva has rejected a demand by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for Asean to expel Burma from the regional association over its treatment of Dawn Aung San Suu Kyi.

Mr Abhisit said Asean would not be able to force the Burmese government to release the detained pro-democracy leader and said neither Thailand or Asean had the authority to intervene in Burma’s internal issues.

The comments by Mr Abhisit, who also occupies the rotating Asean chair, followed a call by Clinton during the closing of the 42nd Asean ministers meeting for the regional body to take action to force Suu Kyi’s release.

Mr Abhisit said he understood that while the US Secretary of State was simply restating the US Government’s position on democracy, there were insufficient reasons for Asean to suspend Burma’s membership.

According to the PM, Asean shared the same ideology towards democracy as the West, but expelling Burma would only isolate the country more.

He said that while Burma had decided to continue it’s legal process against Suu Kyi, it might use the opportunity (the Asean summit and trial of Suu Kyi) to reconsider its relationship with Asean and the world.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-07-25

[bhakta]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

Edited July 25, 2009 by bhakta

[animatic]

If I remember her words of last week she said she was :

'not TELLING ASEAN to expel Burma,

but that it might not be inappropriate to do so,

but that it was ASEANS business.'

Not quite as bluntly stated as this article implies.

Edited July 25, 2009 by animatic

[hammered]

Interesting that action is demanded against undemocratic Burma while the elected president of Honduras overthrown in a coup is chided when he tries to return home.

Doubt any of this is about democracy really

[zzaa09]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

Well, that's one way to look at it. In reality, she's about as concerned with the real Burma as the PM might be. Politics.

[bdenner]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

100% Agree

Get back to the US and sort your own internal issues out and keep out of other peoples and nations business.

[ferguston]

Pussy foot Thailand.

Has Thailand ever criticised Myanmar ?

Happy to berate Cambodia over the disputed border.

When it comes to a larger, more powerful neighbour Myanmar. Keep quiet.

[Bolo]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

He is standing up against the rest of the world that wants her freed. Simple. Don't hate the messenger

[svenivan]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

He is standing up against the rest of the world that wants her freed. Simple. Don't hate the messenger

Why doesn´t mrs Clinton go home to US and tell all american companies that today have business in Burma to get out first?

They are making billions from their business in Burma and give the military dictatorship in Burma a good part of it!

[steelepulse]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

He is standing up against the rest of the world that wants her freed. Simple. Don't hate the messenger

Why doesn´t mrs Clinton go home to US and tell all american companies that today have business in Burma to get out first?

They are making billions from their business in Burma and give the military dictatorship in Burma a good part of it!

What businesses from the US are making billions?  Please enlighten us that don't know these companies.

[jayboy]

Interesting that action is demanded against undemocratic Burma while the elected president of Honduras overthrown in a coup is chided when he tries to return home.

Doubt any of this is about democracy really

I thought the Americans have given support to to the overthrown president of Honduras.Obama certainly condemned the coup.

[Publicus]

I'm no lawyer but let's get the basic facts of the case down first.

Prez Zalaya of Honduras tried to amend the constitution so that he could seek a second term in office. His term is to expire at the end of this year, the election of a successor in November.

The Supreme Court said the Constitution of Honduras is explicit that no president could ever seek a second term under any circumstances.

Zalaya announced a national vote, a referendum to get the view of the electorate.

Simultaneously, the Congress voted to remove Zalaya from office, appointed a successor and arrested and deported Zalaya. The successor prez is from the Congress and constitutionally the next in line to succeed the prez in any emergency.

So here we are.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Publicus

[hammered]

Interesting that action is demanded against undemocratic Burma while the elected president of Honduras overthrown in a coup is chided when he tries to return home.

Doubt any of this is about democracy really

I thought the Americans have given support to to the overthrown president of Honduras.Obama certainly condemned the coup.

The US stopped short of calling it a coup actually. That would have meant certain sanctions kicking in. Today H. Clinton condemned the attempt by Pres. Zelaya to return.

Obama condemned the military action and gave vocal support to Zelaya but made sure the Junta wouldnt suffer.

[hammered]

I'm no lawyer but let's get the basic facts of the case down first.

Prez Zalaya of Honduras tried to amend the constitution so that he could seek a second term in office. His term is to expire at the end of this year, the election of a successor in November.

The Supreme Court said the Constitution of Honduras is explicit that no president could ever seek a second term under any circumstances.

Zalaya announced a national vote, a referendum to get the view of the electorate.

Simultaneously, the Congress voted to remove Zalaya from office, appointed a successor and arrested and deported Zalaya. The successor prez is from the Congress and constitutionally the next in line to succeed the prez in any emergency.

So here we are.

The New government of Honduras is unique in that it is the only government in the world not recognized by a single other country. Even those Russian bits of Georgia are more recognized.

Anyway intially I started this as an example about the dubious nature of actions being for democracy and it is now getting well off topic, so better leave it there I guess

[Publicus]

Interesting that action is demanded against undemocratic Burma while the elected president of Honduras overthrown in a coup is chided when he tries to return home.

Doubt any of this is about democracy really

I thought the Americans have given support to to the overthrown president of Honduras.Obama certainly condemned the coup.

The US stopped short of calling it a coup actually. That would have meant certain sanctions kicking in. Today H. Clinton condemned the attempt by Pres. Zelaya to return.

Obama condemned the military action and gave vocal support to Zelaya but made sure the Junta wouldnt suffer.

What Junta?? There isn't any Junta. The constitutional successor from the Congress has been voted by the Congress to be the new president. The army is in the barracks. What Junta?

Sec Clinton is presenting the views of Prez Obama. She presents and articulates the foreign policy positions of the US Government.

Sec Clinton said Zalaya's actions today at the Honduran border are "reckless". The US Government is not opposed to Zalay's return nor has it tried to prevent his return. Negotiations continue to be led by the respected Costa Rican Prez Arias. Meanwhile Zalaya is acting like Thaksin.

And we are getting afield from the topic. It's just a nuisance to see sloppy opinions being thrown around and about.

[animatic]

I'm no lawyer but let's get the basic facts of the case down first.

Prez Zalaya of Honduras tried to amend the constitution so that he could seek a second term in office. His term is to expire at the end of this year, the election of a successor in November.

The Supreme Court said the Constitution of Honduras is explicit that no president could ever seek a second term under any circumstances.

Zalaya announced a national vote, a referendum to get the view of the electorate.

Simultaneously, the Congress voted to remove Zalaya from office, appointed a successor and arrested and deported Zalaya. The successor prez is from the Congress and constitutionally the next in line to succeed the prez in any emergency.

So here we are.

This is tantamount to an impeachment ,and trial in the senate, to remove the head of state

for repeated attempts to circumvent the constitution for his own ends.

And why it has not been labled a coup.

The guy had plenty of warnings he ignored from the OTHER 2 parts of the checks and balances.

In the end he wanted what he wanted and they had to move on him.

I suspect this is a quite close analogy to why Care Taker Prime Minister Thaksin was removed from office.

the difference being there was no parliament installed at the time of Thaksin's removal as Temp PM.

Thaksin had/has a long a sordid history of making clear moves to circumvent the checks and balances

and co-opt as much of the system as he could for his own gains.

Edited July 25, 2009 by animatic

[Ayutthaya69]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

1-0 THAILAND Thanks Mister Abhisit to said no to Miss Clinton go back USA

He is standing up against the rest of the world that wants her freed. Simple. Don't hate the messenger

Why doesn´t mrs Clinton go home to US and tell all american companies that today have business in Burma to get out first?

They are making billions from their business in Burma and give the military dictatorship in Burma a good part of it!

[Groongthep]

Talk about putting spin on a topic. This thread's title and many responses that refer to Clinton's "demands" that ASEAN expell Burma from the organisation just don't reflect what she really said.

Here is a transcript of her interview with the Nation's Sutichai Yoon

Sutichai: Talking about Burma, if Aung Sang Suu Kyi is not released would you be sorry to see Burma kicked out of ASEAN?

Clinton: "Well that's up to ASEAN."

Clinton continues: "I think that it would be an appropriate policy change to consider because other countries in ASEAN, despite whatever happen in other countries they are up and down or they all have problems, they have made steady progress in democracy, human rights and economic prosperity that is broadly shared and that hasn't happened in Burma.

Now there's great debate that goes on, can you influence the Burmesse military junta more by exchanging ideas and engaging with them or sanctions and trying to get their attention or removing them from the organization... It's a fair debate. I have discussion with leaders in the region, who have advocated at both sides of the debate.

But you put your fingers on particularly painful issue for me personally as well as for my country. We admire Aung Sang Suu Kyi. I think that the sacrifice she has made for her people, people of Burma, are admirable... and really demonstrates that one person can make difference by standing up for the rights to determine your own future and your country. And I regret deeply that the unfortunate incidence that she has nothing to do with has surged an excuse for her to be put on trial and put in the prison. And yes we would like to see her release."

IMHO it's quite a stretch to consider this statement as any kind of "demand".

[photojourn]

Thanks Groongthep, but the Thaivisa story wasn't drawn from the Clinton/Sutichai interview. What Clinton said in one interview and what she said in others, or during her address to the Asean delegates can, and in fact are, two different things.

Main Entry: demand

Synonyms: abuse, appeal, apply, arrogate, badger, beg, beseech, besiege, bid, challenge, charge, cite, claim, clamor for, coerce, command, compel, constrain, counterclaim, direct, dun, enjoin, entreat, exact, expect, force, hit, hit up, impetrate, implore, importune, inquire, insist on, interrogate, knock, nag, necessitate, oblige, order, pester, petition, postulate, pray, press, question, request, require, requisition, solicit, stipulate, sue for, summon, supplicate, tax, urge, whistle for

Thanks for reading the news though

[Chunkton]

Interesting that action is demanded against undemocratic Burma while the elected president of Honduras overthrown in a coup is chided when he tries to return home.

Doubt any of this is about democracy really

No it is about co-operative regimes. Long sad history of overthrowing perceived unfriendly governments south of the border.

[caf]

If I remember her words of last week she said she was :

'not TELLING ASEAN to expel Burma,

but that it might not be inappropriate to do so,

but that it was ASEANS business.'

Not quite as bluntly stated as this article implies.

Correct

She was right to make the point but she knows the reality. Sabres are used to rattle not kill

[caf]

Thanks Groongthep, but the Thaivisa story wasn't drawn from the Clinton/Sutichai interview. What Clinton said in one interview and what she said in others, or during her address to the Asean delegates can, and in fact are, two different things.

Main Entry: demand

Synonyms: abuse, appeal, apply, arrogate, badger, beg, beseech, besiege, bid, challenge, charge, cite, claim, clamor for, coerce, command, compel, constrain, counterclaim, direct, dun, enjoin, entreat, exact, expect, force, hit, hit up, impetrate, implore, importune, inquire, insist on, interrogate, knock, nag, necessitate, oblige, order, pester, petition, postulate, pray, press, question, request, require, requisition, solicit, stipulate, sue for, summon, supplicate, tax, urge, whistle for

Thanks for reading the news though

Thanks for giving everyone an English lesson but where is this supposed other interview where she demanded something?

[EndofDays]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

He is standing up against the rest of the world that wants her freed. Simple. Don't hate the messenger

Why doesn´t mrs Clinton go home to US and tell all american companies that today have business in Burma to get out first?

They are making billions from their business in Burma and give the military dictatorship in Burma a good part of it!

U.S. business? Which ones? Are you sure? Are you sure there isn't a ban on U.S. companies doing business in Burma? Are you sure? Or do you just hate us?

[venturalaw]

I am pleased to see the Prime Minister stand-up to Mrs. Clinton and tell her to keep her nose out of the Asean business.

He is standing up against the rest of the world that wants her freed. Simple. Don't hate the messenger

Why doesn´t mrs Clinton go home to US and tell all american companies that today have business in Burma to get out first?

They are making billions from their business in Burma and give the military dictatorship in Burma a good part of it!

You have some link establishing evidence of what you are saying, or is it just BS from someone who hates America?

[Publicus]

South Africa couldn't get rid of aparthied and free Nelson Mandella from prison until the US Congress enacted laws prohibiting US businesses operating in S Africa.

These posts about supposed US corporations in Burma are the same old sh*t from the same old slingers. Too cliched and lazy to look it up.

[Netfan]

US businesses are banned from doing business with the Burmese govt. And why shouldn't the US Secy of state put a little pressure on ASEAN to take some action? Thailand will never do anything - too much trade and too many politicos having connections there. Should the world just shrug their shoulders and say "forget her, its a Burmese internal issue"?

[infernalman7]

Well, Thailand apparently is gaining from Burma being like this at its current state. If Burma has become a democratic country, imagine how it would affect this region. More competition on everything to all ASEAN countries.

[geriatrickid]

I believe Sec. Clinton's statements have been twisted out of context. However, she did hit a sore point with the Thais. Is it a secret that the flow of money in to and out of Myanmar goes through Thailand based companies? Suspending Myanmar from ASEA would interfere with the profits wouldn't it?

The statements by some people in here accusing American companies, aided by the US government, of investing in Myanmar are false and inaccurate. The two toughest positions on sanctions in the world are those effected by the USA and Canada.

Unlike the United States and Canada, the European Union does not have financial sanctions against the Myanmar regime. The USA has sought to enforce sanctions by telling the US branches of EU based companies not to use USA based or associated facilities to invest. (Now we know why Canada has similar rules to the USA ) Well, surprise, surprise, certain EU countries have circumvented the rules by using companies located in countries like Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapore. One of the largest vehicles for moving money in and out has been the insurance industry. There have been multiple reports put out that reveal the disgusting and reprehensible conduct of various financial conglomorates, particularly those that have syndicates underwriting for Lloyds. Lloyds comes under the UK government's authority.

What is one supposed to think when statements like this are made:

23-July-2008: "Unless there are official UN sanctions in place, Lloyd's does not instruct the market where it can and cannot write business. We do not make public comments on the politics or economic policies of national or international bodies."

Additional key culprits are Japanese insurers using their Lloyds based syndicates. The syndicates involved are significant and they have been named and shamed in various well respected insurance publications.

On a positive note, many of the world's largest insurers and financial conglomerates have been encouraged to take the high road. Again it is the Germans that took the lead on this with Munich Re and Allianz out in front. Even the Swiss insurers are clean with Zurich and Swiss Re avoiding Myanmar. Industry opportunists like ING, AIU (xAIG) and the major US insurance brokers are also clean. However, it is the UK based brokers and their Lloyds partners that have alot to answer for, hiding behind Thai hub operations and Thai partners and Bermuda operations. Of course the Thais aren't going to do anything to interfere with this cash cow. The real culprits here I think are the people that one would expect to be onside in this matter: The Labour government in the UK. It has failed to introduce economic regulations or oversee its financial services. Rather odd. Perhaps Mr. Abhisits time in the UK allowed him to better understand the financial interests of the English financiers.

*Clarification - Scotland is clean on this as no Scottish financial institutions (e.g. AVIVA) are implicated.

[Rinrada]

Clarification - Scotland is clean on this as no Scottish financial institutions (e.g. AVIVA) are implicated

SORRY........and suggest wite tae Eck Salmon in the big Hoose and object...........am still waiting...

From The Burma DIRTY List of companies....

even the Jocks ...".Jokes" enjoy playing with these SOBs

Ben Line Agencies

Ben Line Agencies is a Scottish shipping line with offices in Burma.

It operates a range of port services for companies exporting cargo from Burma.

Ben Line is owned by EGT Holdings.

William Thomson,Chairman

Ben Line Agencies

Suite 7, Bonnington Bond

2 Anderson Place

Edinburgh EH6 5NP

UK

Fax: +44 (0)131 557 4742

Email: [email protected]

[geriatrickid]

The reference to the Ben Line (as held by egt holdings) should be put in context. My comments were in reference to an industry segment. More importantly, the Ben Line is nominally Scottish as it is for all intents and purposes an Asian based company and managed in each region. Sort of like Triumph moving its HQ to Switzerland from Germany. The Ben Line is not under the jurisdiction of Scotland and if any rules or regulations applied they would be UK/EU. Please note too that BL hasn't been in the container shipping business since 1992 and acts exclusively as a shipping agency. The Myanmar office is small and my understanding is that all key decisions are taken in the large Bangkok office. Ben Line Agencies BLA presently has offices in China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. BLA is managed exclusively in Asia.

One aspect of JVs and local investment holdings is that they are subject to local management and owner interest decisions. It is therefore unfair to consider this to be a "Scottish" company.