Is Multi-culturism Good For A Country?

[ClaytonSeymour]

A consequence of Multiculturalism:

Manningham man shouted racial abuse before attack

9:03am Thursday 20th August 2009

By Steve Wright »

A teenager who stabbed and slashed a passer-by in a racially motivated attack has been locked up for five years.

Amir Rehman, 18, shouted racial abuse as 51-year-old Ronald O’Connor walked to a shop for a loaf of bread, near the gates of Lister Park, Manning-ham, last December.

Leeds Crown Court was told Rehman shouted out: “Manningham belongs to Muslims. We don’t want whites. We rule Bradford. We are going to get you out.”

His frightened victim, Ronald O’Connor, tried to get in the shop, but Rehman ran up and stabbed him twice in the upper arm with a four to five-inch bladed knife.

The court heard that Rehman, of Lumb Lane, Manningham, was describ-ed as in a frenzy, “like a crazy man, out of control,” as he tried to slash Mr O’Connor’s face. The palms of Mr O’Connor’s hands were slashed as he tried to defend himself.

Prosecutor Richard Gioserano said: “Rehman was swinging at him over and over again with the knife. Mr O’Connor was in great pain and in fear, literally, of his life.”

Mr O’Connor ran into the shop. Police were called and Rehman was arrested outside.

Mr O’Connor had surgery at Bradford Royal Infirmary for a deep laceration to his palm. He also suffered lacerations to his fingers and two incisions to his upper arm with apparent nerve damage.

Mr Gioserano said Rehman attended Bradford Crown Court for a preliminary hearing of the case in March, but went straight from court to Pudsey, with two other men, Amar Farooq and Tanveer Hussain, where, later in the day, they committed a series of robberies on children on their way home from school.

Full story here: http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news...tabbing/?ref=mr

[IanForbes]

Integration is inevitable with MC.

No it's not. Parallel societies are the most likely consequence.

It depends on the race. The Indians don't integrate with anyone outside their own race and some will murder their own daughters if they try to get out of the tyranny. Muslim groups won't mingle with caucasians either... other than business. Chinese and Japanese will mix with western cultures after a generation if given the opportunity. So will blacks.

[Huey]

Why ashamed? Because in the 1970's Iran was a great country, on the verge of becoming a first world country and one of the great powers. (Hey, it's got a bigger population than the UK or France, so why not?). But now, it's just another F-ed up Muslim country, and everyone thinks that's what Iran is all about. The first thing everyone pictures is scowling, crazy Ayatollahs, fearful women scurrying around in black sheets, bearded savages waving their fists in the air and screaming "Death to America! Death to British! Death to Israel!", etc. People are stoned to death for having sex. Girls are whipped until bruised and bloody for not covering all their hair, have their lips sliced with razor blades for wearing lipstick, etc. Virgins are raped before being executed because virgins can't go to hel_l. The kind of torture that goes on there every day these last 30 years makes anything that happened at Guantanamo or Abu Graib look like a joke by comparison. It's hel_l on earth, and it's terribly embarrassing.

This world is a very strange place. That same year that Iran fell from grace and descended into hel_l, China went the opposite direction. In 30 years time, those two countries essentially traded places. Through no virtue of their own, ordinary Chinese people can feel pride today. Through no fault of our own, ordinary Persians feel horrible shame instead. Try to understand how this must feel. The way I deal with it in my own mind is to say "look - ethnicity and religion are two different things. I can't help being half-Persian. There shouldn't be any shame in that. But Iran isn't so messed-up because of ethnicity. It's messed-up because of religion, and people can change their religion. In fact, Islam isn't the original religion of Persia - it was imposed on the people by brutal invaders, just like Catholicism was forced on the indiginous peoples of Latin America. (Guess where the Catholics learned it from?) I'm against that religion because it ruined the country of my heritage, is causing untold suffering there and all around the world, and ruined the image of Persian people everywhere."

Back in the 70's, the Persian passport was a valuable, prestigious document that earned it's bearer a warm welcome almost everywhere in the world. Iran was seen as a wealthy, exotic, fascinating land; the people were considered charming, fun, intelligent and civilized. Today, it is one of the worst passports to travel with - only about 7 countries grant visa-free entry, it's very hard to get visas to other countries, and even then you'll be treated with suspicion. And rightly so. Sad. Shameful. Embarrassing. Think about it sometime.

I wouldn't be ashamed. Sins of the father etc.

My father is Fijian. His great great grandfather cut out the heart of his enemy and ate it on the battlefield to signify his victory. Barbaric. I'm not ashamed, in fact I'm proud of my ancestor's prowess. But do something like that here and now.....Hannibal Lecter! It's all relative.

I don't blame you for your bias.

Again....I wonder how many of us are indoctrinated, whether it's by the "system" or by more subtle means.

From where I stand, I suppose I am biased too. I detest the way the US bullies sovereign nations for it's own agenda, and I tend to stand up for the underdog......but if I were American, perhaps I would have a different world view.

Having experienced racial discrimination from whites and blacks, being half caste, and every time I've experienced it I have known that the racist is ignorant and fearfull, I have a perspective that makes me biased against bias .

I find it hard to tolerate intolerance.

I find it hard to be expected to live alongside people that have such a different culture to me as to be intolerable.

We are NOT all the same.Those of african origin are physically different .but of little academic brains.

[they had not even invented the wheel when whites first got to africa]

Muticulturism has the same effect as comprehensive schooling...Put all groups into one class with no effort in 'streaming' which will benefit all.

Comprehensive schooling and muticulurism brings about the same effect.An uneducateed/illiterate,easily managed working class.

Read [it is banned in England ] the chapter on 'The real reason for coloured immigration to Britain' in The Longest Hatred by Jane Birdwell.

Of notable interest is the fact that the 1920 version of Encyclopedia Brittanica has since had the chapter about the outcome of inter marriage between the portugese and the africans brought to Portugal in the 16th century removed.

Didn't you guys die off around the turn of the last century? That tired old pseudo science to some how prove other races( almost always Blacks) inferior to the white man and there for justify their bigotry.

Dude, if you hate Blacks and you think your blood makes you better than the next man because of it, just say so. But don't make up fairy tales like Black people as a whole are intellectually inferior to whites just because you have an issue. I won't even bother going into historical reference to prove you wrong as it would be liken to proving to someone that the sky is blue.

Fortunately your way of thinking is dying out by the year, and those few grumbling haters left wouldn't DARE to express their views publicly, preferring instead to hide their lies behind the anominity of a forum like this.

Am I the only one here who can see how weak and tired this is?

I am I the only one who would rather focus on a man's words & deeds and how well they match rather than the color of his skin?

And I know I'm not the only one who enjoys multiculturalism and interracial interaction, why do so many of us think that we need to look down upon someone else in order to love ourselves?

Oh yeah and,

MUTT POWER!

[4.real]

I find it hard to be expected to live alongside people that have such a different culture to me as to be intolerable.

We are NOT all the same.Those of african origin are physically different .but of little academic brains.

[they had not even invented the wheel when whites first got to africa]

Muticulturism has the same effect as comprehensive schooling...Put all groups into one class with no effort in 'streaming' which will benefit all.

Comprehensive schooling and muticulurism brings about the same effect.An uneducateed/illiterate,easily managed working class.

Read [it is banned in England ] the chapter on 'The real reason for coloured immigration to Britain' in The Longest Hatred by Jane Birdwell.

Of notable interest is the fact that the 1920 version of Encyclopedia Brittanica has since had the chapter about the outcome of inter marriage between the portugese and the africans brought to Portugal in the 16th century removed.

Didn't you guys die off around the turn of the last century? That tired old pseudo science to some how prove other races( almost always Blacks) inferior to the white man and there for justify their bigotry.

Dude, if you hate Blacks and you think your blood makes you better than the next man because of it, just say so. But don't make up fairy tales like Black people as a whole are intellectually inferior to whites just because you have an issue. I won't even bother going into historical reference to prove you wrong as it would be liken to proving to someone that the sky is blue.

Fortunately your way of thinking is dying out by the year, and those few grumbling haters left wouldn't DARE to express their views publicly, preferring instead to hide their lies behind the anominity of a forum like this.

Am I the only one here who can see how weak and tired this is?

I am I the only one who would rather focus on a man's words & deeds and how well they match rather than the color of his skin?

And I know I'm not the only one who enjoys multiculturalism and interracial interaction, why do so many of us think that we need to look down upon someone else in order to love ourselves?

Oh yeah and,

MUTT POWER!

NO. Contrary to the hopes of our governments some of us can see through the costant television that portrays those of black afican origin as being the greatest folk around.Nowadays all television has some black as the brains behind any operation..Judges of immense integrity and heads of universities and other positions where they can show their white underlings as the mindless idiots they really are..

I guess you are one of the idiots that believe the blacks of New Orleans were 'left behind' during Katrina ...And were not what they actually were...

Pack mentality thieves and looters expecting rich pickings after the electricty/police/ alaarms were down..Katrina just happened to be far worse than expected.

The black race has [and always will have] a tribal mentality.

try to educate yourself by reading 'the longest hatred' ..just the chapter on black immigration to britain may help..

[ClaytonSeymour]

Integration is inevitable with MC.

No it's not. Parallel societies are the most likely consequence.

It depends on the race. The Indians don't integrate with anyone outside their own race and some will murder their own daughters if they try to get out of the tyranny. Muslim groups won't mingle with caucasians either... other than business. Chinese and Japanese will mix with western cultures after a generation if given the opportunity. So will blacks.

With the blacks it would depend on their ancestry & religion. You must remember that certain 'black' African countries are predominantly Muslim, worryingly, the number of followers is still increasing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Africa

[scottyd]

MC is good.

It is just a shame that there are so many nuggets out there that create problems between cultures. Can't we all just get along?

[Huey]

NO. Contrary to the hopes of our governments some of us can see through the costant television that portrays those of black afican origin as being the greatest folk around.Nowadays all television has some black as the brains behind any operation..Judges of immense integrity and heads of universities and other positions where they can show their white underlings as the mindless idiots they really are..

I guess you are one of the idiots that believe the blacks of New Orleans were 'left behind' during Katrina ...And were not what they actually were...

Pack mentality thieves and looters expecting rich pickings after the electricty/police/ alaarms were down..Katrina just happened to be far worse than expected.

The black race has [and always will have] a tribal mentality.

try to educate yourself by reading 'the longest hatred' ..just the chapter on black immigration to britain may help..

I'm not sure Tribalisim in itself can be considered a wholy negative thing. However thats a conversation I may have with someone that is worth speaking to. The cowardly, scornfull, petty white angst that you spew moves you firmly out of that catagory and into one filled with like minded peasents whom would surely hold their tounge and mind their betters, than to air that garbage in mixed company. As you know full well, that your level of integrity would certainly not afford you the spine to speak a fraction of what you type in my presence.

[Huey]

MC is good.

It is just a shame that there are so many nuggets out there that create problems between cultures. Can't we all just get along?

Very well said Thats how it should be, but then you always have a hater in the bunch. Fortunetly the good expsamples go quiet while the bad instances get all the publicity.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

MC is good.

Why?

[scottyd]

Did you not read the rest of this thread? Chicken Korma is why MC is good, is it not obvious?

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Did you not read the rest of this thread? Chicken Korma is why MC is good, is it not obvious?

Yep, I sure did, it was me who mentioned chicken korma - I was trying to show the irony of the problem, but it is true. I just wondered of the guys who repeat the mantra actually have any rational basis for it or are they just repeating it because they've had it banged into them and it makes them feel 'enlightened' or something to keep on saying it.

I suspect the latter.

In my view, multiculturalism can result in a few people gaining a broader perspective of life, but not any more than one can get from multimedia these days. But also in my view, there are lots and lots of downsides.

People rarely embrace more than one culture, so inevitably there is an 'us and them' situation gets created. You can see this everyday in Thailand and every day on TV.

Different cultures do not always sit easily with each other, far from cultures enriching each other, they dilute each other.

Attempts at multiculturalism can be disastrous - look at what has happened in the UK and some other areas in Europe because of the almost mindless social engineering that has gone on. We have more racial and religious tension in the UK now than I have ever seen. This is one of the main reasons I am not living there any more. Any one who has lived in London and see young schoolkids taking on the yardie gangsta culture and values because they think it is cool to be black, uneducated and violent probably feels the same way.

I think that on the whole, attempting to impose multiculturalism on a community is a bad thing. Certainly I would have learned much more about the value of Asian cultures in from Natural Geographic than from living in Luton. Or Bradford. Watching NG would have broadened my outlook much more than travelling around the wasteland that used to be Kilburn and wondering what the hel_l happened.

'Multiculturalism' (whatever that is) fails because people are essentially mono-cultural and tribal. It has really been at attempt at social engineering, and it has failed just about everywhere, in fact I am unaware of a single country where multiculturalism has been successful and brought real benefits to the community.

Except chicken korma.

[Huey]

Did you not read the rest of this thread? Chicken Korma is why MC is good, is it not obvious?

Yep, I sure did, it was me who mentioned chicken korma - I was trying to show the irony of the problem, but it is true. I just wondered of the guys who repeat the mantra actually have any rational basis for it or are they just repeating it because they've had it banged into them and it makes them feel 'enlightened' or something to keep on saying it.

I suspect the latter.

In my view, multiculturalism can result in a few people gaining a broader perspective of life, but not any more than one can get from multimedia these days. But also in my view, there are lots and lots of downsides.

People rarely embrace more than one culture, so inevitably there is an 'us and them' situation gets created. You can see this everyday in Thailand and every day on TV.

Different cultures do not always sit easily with each other, far from cultures enriching each other, they dilute each other.

Attempts at multiculturalism can be disastrous - look at what has happened in the UK and some other areas in Europe because of the almost mindless social engineering that has gone on. We have more racial and religious tension in the UK now than I have ever seen. This is one of the main reasons I am not living there any more. Any one who has lived in London and see young schoolkids taking on the yardie gangsta culture and values because they think it is cool to be black, uneducated and violent probably feels the same way.

I think that on the whole, attempting to impose multiculturalism on a community is a bad thing. Certainly I would have learned much more about the value of Asian cultures in from Natural Geographic than from living in Luton. Or Bradford. Watching NG would have broadened my outlook much more than travelling around the wasteland that used to be Kilburn and wondering what the hel_l happened.

'Multiculturalism' (whatever that is) fails because people are essentially mono-cultural and tribal. It has really been at attempt at social engineering, and it has failed just about everywhere, in fact I am unaware of a single country where multiculturalism has been successful and brought real benefits to the community.

Except chicken korma.

Chicken Korma, and the United States of America. I know there are tons of haters out there that will bash America for whatever petty reason they can think of. However the truth of the matter remains that, America is the biggest experiment in multiculturalism and despite major atrocities committed against minorities and indigenous populations, it is a astounding success and the hands down most powerful nation ever to exist. period. With a Black man of mixed cultural linage at the helm.

As far as England is concerned I'm not from there and I'm glad. But what it sounds like from this forum is white pepole upset that the "chicken has come home to roost" (and you haven't figured out how to make Korma lol! ) You can't expect that all thouse years of oppression dished out by colonial era England would just go karmicly unasnwered for can you???

Of course not, colonists raped, pillaged, burned and exploited cultures across the globe. Now in England there is a miniscule fraction of this drama in the form of a cultural backlash from the decendants of those that were once victimised in their homes. Now they victimize their former oppressor in theirs untill one day folks learn to live with each other and form a common bond. This is Eruope's due pennance.....long over due for that matter.

As for America, karma comes around quickly, The 2008 elections where a shock to many, and would have been unthinkable during my parents generation. Yet karama comes around to balance things out for the good of us all.

Perhaps Eruope, with a longer history of such attrocities just needs more balanceing.

[Harcourt]

Did you not read the rest of this thread? Chicken Korma is why MC is good, is it not obvious?

Yep, I sure did, it was me who mentioned chicken korma - I was trying to show the irony of the problem, but it is true. I just wondered of the guys who repeat the mantra actually have any rational basis for it or are they just repeating it because they've had it banged into them and it makes them feel 'enlightened' or something to keep on saying it.

I suspect the latter.

In my view, multiculturalism can result in a few people gaining a broader perspective of life, but not any more than one can get from multimedia these days. But also in my view, there are lots and lots of downsides.

People rarely embrace more than one culture, so inevitably there is an 'us and them' situation gets created. You can see this everyday in Thailand and every day on TV.

Different cultures do not always sit easily with each other, far from cultures enriching each other, they dilute each other.

Attempts at multiculturalism can be disastrous - look at what has happened in the UK and some other areas in Europe because of the almost mindless social engineering that has gone on. We have more racial and religious tension in the UK now than I have ever seen. This is one of the main reasons I am not living there any more. Any one who has lived in London and see young schoolkids taking on the yardie gangsta culture and values because they think it is cool to be black, uneducated and violent probably feels the same way.

I think that on the whole, attempting to impose multiculturalism on a community is a bad thing. Certainly I would have learned much more about the value of Asian cultures in from Natural Geographic than from living in Luton. Or Bradford. Watching NG would have broadened my outlook much more than travelling around the wasteland that used to be Kilburn and wondering what the hel_l happened.

'Multiculturalism' (whatever that is) fails because people are essentially mono-cultural and tribal. It has really been at attempt at social engineering, and it has failed just about everywhere, in fact I am unaware of a single country where multiculturalism has been successful and brought real benefits to the community.

Except chicken korma.

Chicken Korma, and the United States of America. I know there are tons of haters out there that will bash America for whatever petty reason they can think of. However the truth of the matter remains that, America is the biggest experiment in multiculturalism and despite major atrocities committed against minorities and indigenous populations, it is a astounding success and the hands down most powerful nation ever to exist. period. With a Black man of mixed cultural linage at the helm.

As far as England is concerned I'm not from there and I'm glad. But what it sounds like from this forum is white pepole upset that the "chicken has come home to roost" (and you haven't figured out how to make Korma lol! ) You can't expect that all thouse years of oppression dished out by colonial era England would just go karmicly unasnwered for can you???

Of course not, colonists raped, pillaged, burned and exploited cultures across the globe. Now in England there is a miniscule fraction of this drama in the form of a cultural backlash from the decendants of those that were once victimised in their homes. Now they victimize their former oppressor in theirs untill one day folks learn to live with each other and form a common bond. This is Eruope's due pennance.....long over due for that matter.

As for America, karma comes around quickly, The 2008 elections where a shock to many, and would have been unthinkable during my parents generation. Yet karama comes around to balance things out for the good of us all.

Perhaps Eruope, with a longer history of such attrocities just needs more balanceing.

Although I am on the pro-MC side of this, I need to point out a couple of things I don't agree with here... Not all anti-American sentiment is for petty reasons. Lets be fair now.

Also to be fair, some anti-MC attitudes from immigrants is not a backlash of colonialism.

Otherwise, I agree.

Edited August 23, 2009 by Harcourt

[wateeseetman]

There are some very astute observations here. MC tends to fail in part because humans generally fail to identify with those other than what their genes want for successors to look like. A careful objective-seeking study in social psychology is really quite foundational for a solid undestanding here.

And it is my hope that neuroscience (and perhaps a combination of other sciences) will provide treatment for this and the other arbitrary bigotry we see.

An aside: primates-- the study of primatology: humans could look to the bonobo to see how its done

Edited August 23, 2009 by wateeseetman

[Datsun240Z]

Why is it tend to fail? Here ( NL ) it's one big MC. It's very safe, can't say when I'm walking streets of Thailand/Vietnam/Indonesia for instance.... The key is good written clear law, big fines, and hard police force to substain order in the nation.

[jubby]

Wow,

I've not read all the posts for obvious reasons.

What really surprises me about my country England is , yes , there seems to be a lot of suspision of different racial groups but there again I know a couple of afro-carabean guys who appear to be more English than I am (WASP) . I know a few Asians including muslims who greet each other in different ways, more like a brotherhood type of thing, but are none the less fine with me. OK, take the religious hatred out of the equation for a minute and then take these guys back to the country of origin or rather country of their parents Origin and they quickly realise that they are British.

On the whole the british people are very tolerant although not always politically correct.

The last time I was in England my children who are mixed-race Thai english were playing with some asian Kids and some newly arrived east european Kids in the park. Most didn't speak the same language, they just got on with what children do , play together. There was no reference to skin colour or race, they just enjoyed themselves. My Kids have no racial intolerance what-so-ever. It'll take a couple of generations but hopefully everyone will get on.

[4.real]

MC is good.

It is just a shame that there are so many nuggets out there that create problems between cultures. Can't we all just get along?

Why can't we just live our own lives as we wish..If we wish to know about other cultures we can [and do] travel..

I have no wish to live alongside people that believeI am too unclean to see their wives faces..

People that believe in frmale genitalia mutilation.

people that are used to living [happily] ten in one room.

People that keep their daughters locked up to ensure they can be forced to marry with some one from their homeland.

Peo[ple who abuse the english benefit system [benefit..good word].

and people who bring children into the world for the intentions of gaining better housing and a [to them] decent income without having to do a day's work.etc..etc..etc..

I wonder that none of you think about the 'race acts'..which has outlawed free speech against immigration...

Is the government feels that words can shape your way of thinking...Then why does it not put this fact [words] to use itself?...especially via television...

Or perhaps it does.......

[scottyd]

You aren't 4 real.

[wateeseetman]

To the America-promoter above, I feel your sentiment as a liberal-thinker, but as a social psych specialist have to say your view of the situation is too rosy. First, Obama's election is evidence for the notion that white racism is on the decline (even amongst the "conservative" bush-loving crowd). Though, the current wackiness in town hall meetings is evidence to the contrary, there will probably always be pockets of bigotry.

BUT! that's the picture in terms of white racism. NON-white racism in America and elsewhere has received little-to-no attention and goes pretty much unchecked- and may in fact be the large issue. Clustering of subcultures is quite prevalent around the states: eg. asians such as Vietnamese in soCal, Chinese and Indians in Norcal. Israeli and Latin crowds in South Florida and New York- just to name a few though there are many more examples. These groups tend to hire and go into business with each other because they trust 'their kind'; hel_l, even in the election of Obama we saw all sorts of black racist emotion and comments like, "If i vote for him, I know he'll take care of me"- and others that made it seem like black kids can only look to other blacks as role models.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

To the America-promoter above, I feel your sentiment as a liberal-thinker, but as a social psych specialist have to say your view of the situation is too rosy. First, Obama's election is evidence for the notion that white racism is on the decline (even amongst the "conservative" bush-loving crowd). Though, the current wackiness in town hall meetings is evidence to the contrary, there will probably always be pockets of bigotry.

BUT! that's the picture in terms of white racism. NON-white racism in America and elsewhere has received little-to-no attention and goes pretty much unchecked- and may in fact be the large issue. Clustering of subcultures is quite prevalent around the states: eg. asians such as Vietnamese in soCal, Chinese and Indians in Norcal. Israeli and Latin crowds in South Florida and New York- just to name a few though there are many more examples. These groups tend to hire and go into business with each other because they trust 'their kind'; hel_l, even in the election of Obama we saw all sorts of black racist emotion and comments like, "If i vote for him, I know he'll take care of me"- and others that made it seem like black kids can only look to other blacks as role models.

Quite right.

[Harcourt]

There are some very astute observations here. MC tends to fail in part because humans generally fail to identify with those other than what their genes want for successors to look like. A careful objective-seeking study in social psychology is really quite foundational for a solid undestanding here.

And it is my hope that neuroscience (and perhaps a combination of other sciences) will provide treatment for this and the other arbitrary bigotry we see.

An aside: primates-- the study of primatology: humans could look to the bonobo to see how its done

1. Genes have wants? Or are you saying humans generally want their successors to look like themselves? Often, perhaps....but generally? How many men here would be happy for Naomi Cambell, Miss Thailand 2008, or Miss Tahiti 2009 to bear his child? Quite a few, I'd bet.

2. Do you mean promiscuity and incest?

[cdnvic]

Thai stopped having Thai relevancy ages ago. Time to put it to rest.