Is Multi-culturism Good For A Country?

[Harcourt]

MC is great for a country - the diversity of thought and approach can lead to intelligent solutions of problems.

Australia is a country of migrants, our aborigines would have preferred that there had been no migrants.

The first white settlers had a policy of excluding people of colour (any colour including white ffrom the wrong country!) via the white Australia policy, then we let in Italians and Greeks.

The Italians and Greeks want Australia now to exclude the people of Asia, forgetting that one of Australia's most famous cooks, Kylie Kwong, is 7th generation Australian/Chinese and is thus more Aussie than they are.

The great foods, art and culture that our waves of migrants have brought with them makes Australia so special today.

I agree with you 100%....romantically. But the reality is that Australia does not have a history of racial tolerance or acceptance, not even in recent history (like last week...ever been to Cabramata or Redfern, Sydney?)....some parts of Australia anyway, have their red-neck or refusal to integrate populations...but certainly not all of that wonderful sunburnt country.

[Harcourt]

Well after living in the US (california) for 12 years I can attest to the fact that multiculturalism appears to be a failure here. The U.S. was originally designed to be a melting pot where everyone would become "American" first and speak a common language. There are many Latinos here who simply don't want to make the effort to learn english and reside in Spanish speaking communities. They also pledge allegiance to Mexico first and the U.S. second. In fact when the Mexican national soccer team played the U.S. at the Colisseum most Latinos were cheering for the Mexican team and urine bags, bottles, etc. were thrown at the U.S. team. Rather ironic how people leave their country because it is not desirable to stay then support it instead of the country that has brought them opportunity and rights. This is true for many other minorities. Not taking a swipe at anyone just the facts.

Yeah....thats a part of it too....it's not all the blame of the host country's xenophobes. There is reverse xenophobia too (silly expression, but you know what I mean....). They are the minority but treat their adoptive countrymen as the outsiders.

[Travel2003]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

Why is that?

I dont say that you are wrong, but I wonder why you just establish the fact that it is good for human beings in general.

Smaller countries like, Norway, Finland, etc, have not exactly been over run with immigrants in the past.

I cant say these countries have suffered or lost out because of this.

[Harcourt]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

Why is that?

I dont say that you are wrong, but I wonder why you just establish the fact that it is good for human beings in general.

Smaller countries like, Norway, Finland, etc, have not exactly been over run with immigrants in the past.

I cant say these countries have suffered or lost out because of this.

Genetic diversity.....in the long run of evolution, it's a winner.

Pooling of knowledge.

Conglomeration of philosophies.

Others could add to this list.

[cdnvic]

Is multi-culturism good for a country and can it actually work? I don't see too much of it in Thailand because most of the country is Buddhist, and other cultures seem to be scattered in tiny groups. There are certainly lots of Europeans, Aussies and North Americans who take Thai national spouses, but they just sort of blend in wherever they locate. About the only hotspot in Thailand is in the very southern end of the penninsula with the turmoil between the Islamic groups and either Christians or Thai Buddhists.

I know in Canada we are supposed to be a multi-culture country with an English speaking bias, but what I see more of is little groups all keeping separate from each other. My sister in London tells me it's the same in England. Depending on the location I can be a foreigner in my own country. I see bigotry and bias everywhere, but it's more the "New Canadiens" that perpetrate it. Many French speaking Canadians REALLY don't like the English speaking Canadians and that goes back to the 1700s, The Japanese Canadians don't integrate with the Chinese Canadians, Muslims and people from India won't integrate with any other group no matter how long they stay in Canada or how many generations pass, and First Nations people keep entirely to themselves. It's quite noticeable in Islamic communities within our cities as well.

You seem to swallow every stereotype that comes your way.

I don't know what kind of sad personal world you live in, but you need to start looking at life differently.

[Travel2003]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

Why is that?

I dont say that you are wrong, but I wonder why you just establish the fact that it is good for human beings in general.

Smaller countries like, Norway, Finland, etc, have not exactly been over run with immigrants in the past.

I cant say these countries have suffered or lost out because of this.

Genetic diversity.....in the long run of evolution, it's a winner.

Pooling of knowledge.

Conglomeration of philosophies.

Others could add to this list.

So in other words, you mean that the mentioned countries then suffer, and will soon degenerate, become more stupid, etc, ?

I guess the genetic thing will have an impact, after 3000 years, so i agree with that one.

[StevieH]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

Why is that?

I dont say that you are wrong, but I wonder why you just establish the fact that it is good for human beings in general.

Smaller countries like, Norway, Finland, etc, have not exactly been over run with immigrants in the past.

I cant say these countries have suffered or lost out because of this.

Genetic diversity.....in the long run of evolution, it's a winner.

Pooling of knowledge.

Conglomeration of philosophies.

Others could add to this list.

indeed. not to mention economic stimulation. it just improves cultures by default and helps humanity as a species to continually evolve, which is a good thing. always has been.

[hhgz]

"Is multi-culturism good for a country and can it actually work? "

Yes, of course. I'm sure you can find something that isn't 100% perfect, and that can be used to support racism, and nationalism.

[Harcourt]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

Why is that?

I dont say that you are wrong, but I wonder why you just establish the fact that it is good for human beings in general.

Smaller countries like, Norway, Finland, etc, have not exactly been over run with immigrants in the past.

I cant say these countries have suffered or lost out because of this.

Genetic diversity.....in the long run of evolution, it's a winner.

Pooling of knowledge.

Conglomeration of philosophies.

Others could add to this list.

So in other words, you mean that the mentioned countries then suffer, and will soon degenerate, become more stupid, etc, ?

I guess the genetic thing will have an impact, after 3000 years, so i agree with that one.

Theoretically, yes.

But I accept your point:....Iceland is perhaps the most genetically isolated place on the planet, and they are not known to be imbeciles or cretins......perhaps some scandinavian genes account for this. Other geneticly isolated populations have degenerated or become extinct.

More to the point though is that the theory of evolution would fall apart if there was not "survival of the fittest" to weed out undesirable genes. Genetic diversity is the only way to pool all the best genes.

Ian...did you deliberately craft this thread so as to broach the eugenics debate??? You sly devil you.

[Thakkar]

"Is multiculturalism a good thing?"

Wrong question. In a globalizing world with income and skills disparities, colonial vestiges, easy and cheap travel and a host of other trends, multiculturalism is inevitable. The real question is: how do we make it work?

It's fine and even good if new immigrants want to retain their culture, and, in any case, it's their inalienable right if that's what they want. Things go wrong when trying to retain one's culture is done through blind exclusion of other cultures from one's lives. That's why the term coined was "multiculturalism" and not "Cultural Ghettoism". Things also go wrong when immigrants are in any way forced or hurried or harried into integrating.

Transporting culture is a tricky business. Immigrants practice culture and tradition that is frozen in time. I've met Kenyan Indians whose 'Indian' way of life is far removed from their counterparts in the 'home' communities in India. In India, the practices grew, mutated, evolved and changed. The cousins in Kenya were still practicing what their ancestors had brought to Kenya generations ago. Inflexibility will eventually lead to atrophy, but in the meantime could do damage.

[Travel2003]

quote]

Why is that?

I dont say that you are wrong, but I wonder why you just establish the fact that it is good for human beings in general.

Smaller countries like, Norway, Finland, etc, have not exactly been over run with immigrants in the past.

I cant say these countries have suffered or lost out because of this.

Genetic diversity.....in the long run of evolution, it's a winner.

Pooling of knowledge.

Conglomeration of philosophies.

Others could add to this list.

So in other words, you mean that the mentioned countries then suffer, and will soon degenerate, become more stupid, etc, ?

I guess the genetic thing will have an impact, after 3000 years, so i agree with that one.

Theoretically, yes.

But I accept your point:....Iceland is perhaps the most genetically isolated place on the planet, and they are not known to be imbeciles or cretins......perhaps some scandinavian genes account for this. Other geneticly isolated populations have degenerated or become extinct.

More to the point though is that the theory of evolution would fall apart if there was not "survival of the fittest" to weed out undesirable genes. Genetic diversity is the only way to pool all the best genes.

Just for the record.

I do not disagree with any of you guys here.

Just trying to make a debate, which enrichens (how do one spell that word?) me.

But I do strongly believe that by creating isolated (and sometimes gettoes) communities of immigrants, will do no good for a country.

So how about Thailand?

What good have we done here?

I guess most of us have brought some money in to the country.

But what impact do the money and ourself make here?

[Harcourt]

"Is multiculturalism a good thing?"

Wrong question. In a globalizing world with income and skills disparities, colonial vestiges, easy and cheap travel and a host of other trends, multiculturalism is inevitable. The real question is: how do we make it work?

It's fine and even good if new immigrants want to retain their culture, and, in any case, it's their inalienable right if that's what they want. Things go wrong when trying to retain one's culture is done through blind exclusion of other cultures from one's lives. That's why the term coined was "multiculturalism" and not "Cultural Ghettoism". Things also go wrong when immigrants are in any way forced or hurried or harried into integrating.

Transporting culture is a tricky business. Immigrants practice culture and tradition that is frozen in time. I've met Kenyan Indians whose 'Indian' way of life is far removed from their counterparts in the 'home' communities in India. In India, the practices grew, mutated, evolved and changed. The cousins in Kenya were still practicing what their ancestors had brought to Kenya generations ago. Inflexibility will eventually lead to atrophy, but in the meantime could do damage.

Excellent points. But it's not the wrong question because the inevitability of it could come too late. It IS desirable, therefore we should remove the barriers to it...and we can't remove the barriers until the opponants of it see reason.

Deal with the philosophies of the xenophobes by asking the question.

[IanForbes]

You seem to swallow every stereotype that comes your way.

I don't know what kind of sad personal world you live in, but you need to start looking at life differently.

I don't swallow ANY sterotype. I try to start interesting discussions, and on this topic I seem to have succeeded. There are many interesting replies on both sides of the debate. For a change, nobody is being personally nasty and the replies substantiate their own point of view.

I don't live in any sad personal world. I like or dislike people individually on how they treat me and others around them. I've met some of the most horribly bigoted people in the USA and Canada, and some of the most loving and caring individuals as well.

Canada is a wonderful caring country who tries to rectify many past mistakes by being overly sensitive to race, religion and cultural problems. Unfortunately, I've seen many ethnic groups use the race card to substantiate their own bigoted actions and perpetuate problems to the detriment of their own group.

I can see the good and the bad in every system. Certainly the Latin American problem in the western USA is something that nobody seems able to address. Throwing good money after bad is not the answer. Neither is it an answer to the First Nations problem we have in western Canada. I've seen a HUGE proliferation in Indo-Canadian gangs in the lower mainland outside Vancouver BC. There have been dozens of murders already this year in an area that never used to have any crime at all.

I believe that MC is something that EVERYONE should strive for, but it can't just come from one segment of the society.

In Thailand I never feel like I'm not wanted. I'm always treated well. That is more than I can say for a few places in Canada.

Edited July 30, 2009 by IanForbes

[Thakkar]

"Is multiculturalism a good thing?"

Wrong question. In a globalizing world with income and skills disparities, colonial vestiges, easy and cheap travel and a host of other trends, multiculturalism is inevitable. The real question is: how do we make it work?

It's fine and even good if new immigrants want to retain their culture, and, in any case, it's their inalienable right if that's what they want. Things go wrong when trying to retain one's culture is done through blind exclusion of other cultures from one's lives. That's why the term coined was "multiculturalism" and not "Cultural Ghettoism". Things also go wrong when immigrants are in any way forced or hurried or harried into integrating.

Transporting culture is a tricky business. Immigrants practice culture and tradition that is frozen in time. I've met Kenyan Indians whose 'Indian' way of life is far removed from their counterparts in the 'home' communities in India. In India, the practices grew, mutated, evolved and changed. The cousins in Kenya were still practicing what their ancestors had brought to Kenya generations ago. Inflexibility will eventually lead to atrophy, but in the meantime could do damage.

Excellent points. But it's not the wrong question because the inevitability of it could come too late. It IS desirable, therefore we should remove the barriers to it...and we can't remove the barriers until the opponants of it see reason.

Deal with the philosophies of the xenophobes by asking the question.

The inevitable is already here. Countries like France, with millions of muslim immigrants and many other ethnic minorities are already face to face with this inevitability. It's too late, divisive and distracting to ask whether what's already happened is good or bad. Asking the question implies that, if the answer is 'no', the situation can be reversed/halted—and that isn't going to happen. Multiculturalism is an irreversible, persistent progression in a rapidly shrinking world.

Even within countries, cities like Bombay are a cauldron of ethnicity, religion and language, exploding periodically in violence fueled by distrust, hatred, competition for resources and the maneuverings of mafia-like politicians. In the midst of this the only and urgent debate should be: multiculturalism is a fact of life—how do we make it work, how do we mitigate tensions, how do we extract the positives and where do individuals, families and communities turn to on a daily basis for honest, unbiased answers and interventions to smooth out the 'little disturbances of life' so that things don't get out of hand?

I have no argument with you on whether multiculturalism is a good thing. But I think that debating the point gives legitimacy to xenophobes, just as debating 'intelligent design' gives proponents of that silliness the veneer of scientific legitimacy. I have grown up dealing with xenophobes. They don't care whether multiculturalism is a good thing or not; they don't care whether immigrants contribute to society; they don't care that homogeneity, even if it were possible, would impoverish their own lives and the lives of their children. Such people will always find something to hate. Debating them assumes they have a philosophy worthy of debate. All they have is hate of the other, any 'other' will do.

By the way, I think that both immigrants as well as their hosts have a lot of issues to work through.

[samran]

Here we go again…

A thread where white people sitting in their white ghetto’s in Patters and Nana complain about immigrants not mixing in their home countries.

Oh yeah, I forgot, they like Thai Chicks, so therefore aren’t racist and ‘da man’ here in Thailand won’t let them mix. Sorry, yep, someone else’s fault

[zzaa09]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

Sociological convention/textbook stuff.

[Livinginexile]

Most of the second world war stuff has been forgotten... other than as a historical note.

Says who? I suppose it depends on what nationality you are, but there again, there are some people that don't have much to remember anyway

Yeah sez who Ian? I find some of your comments highly offensive.

Gee some twadle comes out of this guys mouth

And what pray tell are Indo-Canadians?

[zzaa09]

Is multi-culturism good for a country and can it actually work?

How long is a piece of string? A hot topic with no possibility of a conclusion, but an interesting one at that.

I was going to say that it is too early to say but cross culture has been going on for Centuries.

Globalisation in recent decades has played a huge part I think in integrating cultures, however that's not really any different from what's occured historically.

As to whether it's a good thing, depends on who you ask.

Depends on who you ask. This is usually how we find and accept historical content. Others perspective, opinions, and theories. Historiography tends to be modified ethocentrically, as there isn't a truth.

[zzaa09]

One of the best countries I ever lived in was japn(10 years) . It is just nicer to live - even for guests like myself- in a country where multiculturalism doesn't exist.

Funny how in the west we are brainwashed into thinking that MC is a good thing. I wonder why the man does that?

If you might imbibe into some very careful subjective study, you'll find the reason why Westerners are easily maniputated and conditioned regarding social science disciplines. It's written in our DNA, for the most part. Even the ideals of cultural diffisionism {throughout historical studies} are making a comeback into the mainstream thought.

[sanmiguellight]

Unlimited immigration of low and unskilled people from Africa, Carribbean, and India/Pakistan over the last 50 years has proven to have been an absolute disaster for England hence why many are looking to leave, as a white male it is not safe for me to go to so many areas even during daylight hours where certain races have congregated.

And anyone who says the 3 million generally hardworking East Europeans and Polish who have come to the UK in the last 8/9 years is beneficial to the average Brit is not even worth reasoning with, this quite clearly has brought down wages of Brits, and taken away jobs we have always filled and as there was already a housing shortage has meant a further squeeze on the available property hence further price rises.

However immigration of wealthy folk willing to invest in businesses and highly skilled workers is a good thing for any country aswell as immigration of Spouses IMHO.

Id be sure if there was ever a referendum on immigration the people would vote for the latter and against the former types of immigration ive described.

Edited July 30, 2009 by sanmiguellight

[zzaa09]

Unlimited immigration of low and unskilled people from Africa, Carribbean, and India/Pakistan over the last 50 years has proven to have been an absolute disaster for England hence why many are looking to leave.

And anyone who says the 3 million generally hardworking East Europeans and Polish coming to the UK in the last 8/9 years is beneficial to the average Brit is not even worth reasoning with, this quite clearly has brought down wages of Brits, and taken away jobs we have always filled and as there was already a housing shortage has meant a further squeeze on the available property hence further price rises.

However immigration of wealthy folk willing to invest in businesses and highly skilled workers is a good thing for any country aswell as immigration of Spouses IMHO.

Imperial historic kharma.....

[sanmiguellight]

Imperial historic kharma.....

The words of a pure liberal more then likely North American.

Im no imperialist i dont believe in overbearing governance, but the British Empire whilst obviously wasnt lilly white wasnt the evil empire folk such as yourself like to make out it was.

[Thakkar]

Unlimited immigration of low and unskilled people from Africa, Carribbean, and India/Pakistan over the last 50 years has proven to have been an absolute disaster for England hence why many are looking to leave.

And anyone who says the 3 million generally hardworking East Europeans and Polish coming to the UK in the last 8/9 years is beneficial to the average Brit is not even worth reasoning with, this quite clearly has brought down wages of Brits, and taken away jobs we have always filled and as there was already a housing shortage has meant a further squeeze on the available property hence further price rises.

However immigration of wealthy folk willing to invest in businesses and highly skilled workers is a good thing for any country aswell as immigration of Spouses IMHO.

Imperial historic kharma.....

Or, as someone else (can't remember who) said when asked why he and his kind were in the UK: "We are here because you were there."

[zzaa09]

Imperial historic kharma.....

The words of a pure liberal more then likely North American.

Im no imperialist i dont believe in overbearing governance, but the British Empire whilst obviously wasnt lilly white wasnt the evil empire folk such as yourself like to make out it was.

Assumptions vacant of intelligence. Typically disconnected.....

[Geekfreaklover]

Unlimited immigration of low and unskilled people from Africa, Carribbean, and India/Pakistan over the last 50 years has proven to have been an absolute disaster for England hence why many are looking to leave, as a white male it is not safe for me to go to so many areas even during daylight hours where certain races have congregated.

And anyone who says the 3 million generally hardworking East Europeans and Polish who have come to the UK in the last 8/9 years is beneficial to the average Brit is not even worth reasoning with, this quite clearly has brought down wages of Brits, and taken away jobs we have always filled and as there was already a housing shortage has meant a further squeeze on the available property hence further price rises.

However immigration of wealthy folk willing to invest in businesses and highly skilled workers is a good thing for any country aswell as immigration of Spouses IMHO.

Id be sure if there was ever a referendum on immigration the people would vote for the latter and against the former types of immigration ive described.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Chunkton]

Multiculturalism as a concept can work, although the term itself is a misnomer. When immigrants go to a new country with a desire to adopt that culture and integrate it works very well. This is how it should be and why it has worked in the past, eg USA.

The real problem is stupid culture raping PC, where the whacko chardonnay sipping lefties decide that the country has to adopt the cultures of those immigrating. Then anything supporting the original culture is suddenly "rascist" as it may go against the old cultures of new arrivals. That then leads to every new arrival group demanding that their old ways are accepted in the new culture regardless of how at odds it may be. So immediately the glue that binds all is removed and factionalism begins dividing the home country into segmented competing failed old world cultures.

Like many ideas it gets torpedoed by well wishing people that don't have the vaguest notion of what they are doing but are conviced they are right. Of course you couldn't even say this back home where rational argument is all but outlawed.

As to Luk Krumg, I see none in government, the public service, the army, the police, the boardrooms. You are kidding yourself if you belive your kids will thrive in Thailand if they can't act or strum a guitar. Get them back to the west for university, I doubt many will come back here. My child does learn music for all that, obviously speaks Thai and English but will soon start Chinese. I am hoping the triple language will get a good job back home if gets a western degree later.

[Thakkar]

snip... When immigrants go to a new country with a desire to adopt that culture and integrate it works very well. This is how it should be and why it has worked in the past, eg USA.

The real problem is stupid culture raping PC, where the whacko chardonnay sipping lefties decide that the country has to adopt the cultures of those immigrating. ..snip

Just as you cannot move to a new environ and insist you must remain the same, the place that receives you cannot expect not to be changed by your presence. All sides need to adapt, accept and, to a certain degree, embrace. In this process, a new richness is born to the benefit of all.

I chug beer as well as sip chardonnay, though not in tandem.

[sanmiguellight]

Unlimited immigration of low and unskilled people from Africa, Carribbean, and India/Pakistan over the last 50 years has proven to have been an absolute disaster for England hence why many are looking to leave, as a white male it is not safe for me to go to so many areas even during daylight hours where certain races have congregated.

And anyone who says the 3 million generally hardworking East Europeans and Polish who have come to the UK in the last 8/9 years is beneficial to the average Brit is not even worth reasoning with, this quite clearly has brought down wages of Brits, and taken away jobs we have always filled and as there was already a housing shortage has meant a further squeeze on the available property hence further price rises.

However immigration of wealthy folk willing to invest in businesses and highly skilled workers is a good thing for any country aswell as immigration of Spouses IMHO.

Id be sure if there was ever a referendum on immigration the people would vote for the latter and against the former types of immigration ive described.

Good to see the PC crowd playing the racism card, as predictable as ever ...... can you honestly say Multiculturism is working in the UK? And give some examples instead of the usual youre racist drivel.

Edited July 30, 2009 by sanmiguellight

[Geekfreaklover]

Unlimited immigration of low and unskilled people from Africa, Carribbean, and India/Pakistan over the last 50 years has proven to have been an absolute disaster for England hence why many are looking to leave, as a white male it is not safe for me to go to so many areas even during daylight hours where certain races have congregated.

And anyone who says the 3 million generally hardworking East Europeans and Polish who have come to the UK in the last 8/9 years is beneficial to the average Brit is not even worth reasoning with, this quite clearly has brought down wages of Brits, and taken away jobs we have always filled and as there was already a housing shortage has meant a further squeeze on the available property hence further price rises.

However immigration of wealthy folk willing to invest in businesses and highly skilled workers is a good thing for any country aswell as immigration of Spouses IMHO.

Id be sure if there was ever a referendum on immigration the people would vote for the latter and against the former types of immigration ive described.

Good to see the PC crowd playing the racism card, as predictable as ever ...... can you honestly say Multiculturism is working in the UK? And give some examples instead of the usual youre racist drivel.

I haven't been back for extended time in years. But I'll give you one example - the NHS - it simply wouldn't have worked without imported foreign labour.

What ammuses me is the same people complaining about their visa regulations living in Thailand and in the next breath complaining that there home country is letting too many foriegners in.

[RoastLamb]

Unlimited immigration of low and unskilled people from Africa, Carribbean, and India/Pakistan over the last 50 years has proven to have been an absolute disaster for England hence why many are looking to leave, as a white male it is not safe for me to go to so many areas even during daylight hours where certain races have congregated.

And anyone who says the 3 million generally hardworking East Europeans and Polish who have come to the UK in the last 8/9 years is beneficial to the average Brit is not even worth reasoning with, this quite clearly has brought down wages of Brits, and taken away jobs we have always filled and as there was already a housing shortage has meant a further squeeze on the available property hence further price rises.

However immigration of wealthy folk willing to invest in businesses and highly skilled workers is a good thing for any country aswell as immigration of Spouses IMHO.

Id be sure if there was ever a referendum on immigration the people would vote for the latter and against the former types of immigration ive described.

Good to see the PC crowd playing the racism card, as predictable as ever ...... can you honestly say Multiculturism is working in the UK? And give some examples instead of the usual youre racist drivel.

I haven't been back for extended time in years. But I'll give you one example - the NHS - it simply wouldn't have worked without imported foreign labour.

What ammuses me is the same people complaining about their visa regulations living in Thailand and in the next breath complaining that there home country is letting too many foriegners in.

I don't think anyone has an issue with bringing in skilled labour from abroad to help out with shortages in important areas. The problem lies in tha fact that England seems to have opened its doors to anybody... anybody at all, skilled or unskilled, makes no difference, just come here and we will look after you.

I live in a grim midlands city where white people are in the minority and I walk around and see many different nationalities speaking many different languages, often dressed badly, sometimes drinking, generally behaving like unemployed louts. Why were they let in? What are they bringing to the country?

The other day I was walking to the gym and was wearing my England football shirt (I like it because it hides the sweatmarks) and a black woman stared at my shirt as i passed her and then she actually looked me in the eye and shook her head, as if she was disgraced to see someone being so openly racist. I was absolutely gobsmacked. It was at that point that i started to make serious plans to leave and never return.

English cities aren't far from ruin. The countyside and suburban areas are holding out, but inner city residential areas... they've gone, they have the most horrible atmosphere, as if a civil war could break out at any minute... and what decides who is on which side? Well, race, of course.