Thai "red Shirts" Seek Royal Pardon For Thaksin

[churchill]

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Hundreds of "red-shirt" supporters of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra rallied on Friday, aiming to win more than a million signatures for a petition seeking a royal pardon for the fugitive leader.

The rally at Sanam Luang, a public square near Bangkok's Grand Palace, is expected to draw a crowd of 30,000 in a show of support for the exiled billionaire, who was sentenced in absentia last October to two years in prison for graft.

"He has faced injustice by undemocratic means. Bringing him back would make Thailand a real democratic country," said Jatuporn Prompan, a core leader of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD).

The petition calls on 81-year-old King Bhumibol Adulyadej, who is considered semi-divine in Thailand, to pardon Thaksin and allow him to return home a free man after almost three years in globe-trotting exile.

The campaign has caused outrage among royalists and political opponents, who accuse Thaksin of trying to drag the revered monarch into his personal disputes.

Bhumibol, who is the world's longest-reigning monarch, is officially "above politics" but has previously intervened during times of crisis.

The signature collection ends at midnight on Friday (1700 GMT). The UDD said it would take about a week to verify the signatures before submitting the petition to the king.

Analysts say the campaign is an attempt to show Thaksin's popularity has not waned since his removal in a 2006 coup and his subsequent graft conviction.

Critics say it is unlikely the UDD will actually submit the petition because of the implications of involving the monarchy in politics. Acts deemed offensive to the institution are punishable by up to 15 years in prison in Thailand. Continued...

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...dName=worldNews

-- Reuters 31/07/09

[beerchang]

And if they don't get what they want? Watchout people.

[churchill]

Thousands rally in Bangkok for Thaksin royal pardon

Posted: 31 July 2009 1851 hrs

BANGKOK: More than 10,000 "Red Shirt" supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra rallied Friday as organisers said that one million Thais had signed a petition asking for a royal pardon for the fugitive former premier.

The protest in Bangkok took place despite warnings from the government that a pardon could only be sought by Thaksin himself or by his relatives. Billionaire Thaksin was ousted in a military coup in 2006.

"There are more than one million people who have signed their names to support for Thaksin. I hope more and more people will show up before we close down at midnight tonight," protest leader Jatuporn Prompan told AFP.

Police said more than 10,000 people had gathered at the Sanam Luang parade ground in downtown Bangkok by late afternoon. Nearly 3,000 police were at the rally site, police commander Lieutenant General Worapong Chiewpreecha said.

Thaksin fled Thailand last August to escape a two-year jail term for corruption. His backers aim to gather the signatures to present to the country's revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, who came to power in December, on Thursday warned Thaksin's supporters against signing the petition.

"The royal pardon should be his (Thaksin's) own individual initiative or that of his family members and it's not reached that stage because Thaksin has not yet served the sentence," Abhisit told reporters.

He said that those behind the document were "manipulating innocent people."

State-owned television is to run a segment with a legal expert late Friday to remind the public that it was improper to involve the monarchy in politics.

Thaksin said in a March interview that he had written three letters to the king seeking to be allowed home.

The Red Shirts launched the campaign last month following months of sometimes violent street protests and political conflict in Thailand between supporters and foes of Thaksin.

Thaksin supporters forced the cancellation of a major Asian summit in April and then rioted for two days in Bangkok.

Twice-elected Thaksin still enjoys huge support among Thailand's poor, particularly in rural northern parts of the country, but is hated by the Bangkok-based elite.

Thaksin is currently being tried in absentia on a separate corruption charge relating to US$2.2 billion of funds that were frozen by an anti-graft body soon after the coup.

Thailand's royal family is treated with almost religious adulation and protected by strict defamation laws.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp.../446007/1/.html

[Ferwert]

"More than 10,000 people" Sneaky huh! Why not just say "more than 5 people" Just trying to plant the number 10,000 in peoples mind, instead of the 50,000 or more. I am looking at the TV broadcast of the event, and I see people as far as the eye can see. Sanam Luang is packed. "More than 10,000 people" Yeah right. It is this kind of manipulation that angers me so. And like I said in an earlier post, they will quote the police who have a vested interest in downplaying the strength of the RS, as a way to deflect charges of reporting dishonesty. They constrained themselves to one "fugitive" however.

Farangs understandably get angry when I accuse them of being pawns in the Thai agenized media, but honestly, what would ever make you question the number 10,000. Why do I harp on this numbers thing. It is very significant when measuring the power behind this citizen's movement. !0,000 may be easy to ignore, whereas the true numbers may need to be taken seriously. This diminishment campaign of the pro-democracy Red Shirts by the media is unconscionable.

I honestly had Abhisit smarter than this. Attacking this Petition surely must affect any future electoral strengthening of his. Attacking this petition is an affront to all those who participated. And that is a huge number, and is the voter pool he would need to mine in future elections if he hopes for any electoral growth. It would be so easy to show respect for this petition and these people without any fall-out to him, with some deft politicising. Unbelievable.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Ferwert

[Plus]

So, after a months of vigorous campaigning it's just one million signatures, not two, and certainly not five.

There were about 40 million votes cast in last elections.

Gives an idea of red popularity.

[Ferwert]

Elections my friend Plus...Elections will tell the tale.....I dare you and Abhisit to have an election........but elections scare you, dont they? Did you say something about pro-democracy red shirt popularity!!!!!

Edited July 31, 2009 by Ferwert

[Plus]

There will be elections, Ferwert, don't worry about it.

It's not a kind of thing you do on a dare. Unlike you or me, or reds, for that matter, Abhisit has a country to take care of.

Besides, don't you want consitution to be amended first? Reds don't accept the current, "junta", version, right?

Abhisit mentioned another problem - reds do no allow free political campaigning and resort to violence and intimidation of political opponents. That's not an environment conducive to free and fair elections.

Learn to behave yourselves like citizens first.

[Ferwert]

There will be elections, Ferwert, don't worry about it.

It's not a kind of thing you do on a dare. Unlike you or me, or reds, for that matter, Abhisit has a country to take care of.

Besides, don't you want consitution to be amended first? Reds don't accept the current, "junta", version, right?

Abhisit mentioned another problem - reds do no allow free political campaigning and resort to violence and intimidation of political opponents. That's not an environment conducive to free and fair elections.

Learn to behave yourselves like citizens first.

Aah, now I understand. And all along I thought you and Abhisit were afraid of elections and certain defeat, but you have all these other plausible reasons, and that is why....silly me!

Edited July 31, 2009 by Ferwert

[PoorSucker]

Please Ferwert.

Can't you understand that this just a move undermine the monarchy.

There cannot be a pardon on the table until he (thaksin) has served some time and regret he's actions.

This is the law!!!!

[Ferwert]

But Poorsucker, Mr. Thaksin has nothing to serve time for and nothing to regret. You need to understand that as the RS say, there were two coups, a military one and then a judicial one. One does not serve time or show remorse for being a victim of two coups.

[Insight]

But Poorsucker, Mr. Thaksin has nothing to serve time for and nothing to regret. You need to understand that as the RS say, there were two coups, a military one and then a judicial one. One does not serve time or show remorse for being a victim of two coups.

Proof of which can also be found in several cake boxes stuffed with cash given to judges.

Guilty people do not ask for pardons.

[Ferwert]

Ya gotta play the game Insight.

[Insight]

Ya gotta play the game Insight.

A game he's clearly well versed in

[jayboy]

There will be elections, Ferwert, don't worry about it.

It's not a kind of thing you do on a dare. Unlike you or me, or reds, for that matter, Abhisit has a country to take care of.

Besides, don't you want consitution to be amended first? Reds don't accept the current, "junta", version, right?

Abhisit mentioned another problem - reds do no allow free political campaigning and resort to violence and intimidation of political opponents. That's not an environment conducive to free and fair elections.

Learn to behave yourselves like citizens first.

Yeah, yeah..... all quite sensible.But when all is said and done, after the rigged constitution is fixed and the various coloured factions have promised to behave, Abhisit will have to face the Thai public in an election and for obvious reasons he will like Gordon Brown want to delay this as long as possible.Why? Because they are going to lose.But I'd better back up.At least in the UK the government and the vested interests that back it can't cheat, lie and manipulate.In Thailand however......

[animatic]

There will be elections, Ferwert, don't worry about it.

It's not a kind of thing you do on a dare. Unlike you or me, or reds, for that matter, Abhisit has a country to take care of.

Besides, don't you want consitution to be amended first? Reds don't accept the current, "junta", version, right?

Abhisit mentioned another problem - reds do no allow free political campaigning and resort to violence and intimidation of political opponents. That's not an environment conducive to free and fair elections.

Learn to behave yourselves like citizens first.

Aah, now I understand. And all along I thought you and Abhisit were afraid of elections and certain defeat, but you have all these other plausible reasons, and that is why....silly me!

Yes, not only plausible, but actual and functional.

Red Shirts ? Brown Shirts on this point not much difference in SOP.

As noted in another thread "Agenized" does not in any sense mean what you are using it for.

There was no need for a judicial coup, Thaksin was not PM anyway.

and because the laws broken were plain to see by all. EX PM by his own hand.

Just because the convicted parties, TRT et al in these cases, were politicians, doesn't mean

anything more than the will to act on prosecuting broken laws was evident,

after TRT pressure to sweep it under the rugs was removed.

Your team lost in court because the evidences were stronger than their arguments.

Edited July 31, 2009 by animatic

[sbk]

Posts of a speculative nature regarding HM the King have been removed.

Please remember the forum rules.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation and comments of a political nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

further such posts will result in more formal moderation than merely deletion.

[Artisi]

Ya gotta play the game Insight.

Thaksin, the spoilt one didn't like the rules of the game anymore so took his football and ran away crying mummy mummy - no one likes me.

Now he has to sit on the sideline sucking his thumb sniveling and watching cause his football is no longer needed for the game to continue.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Artisi

[mc2]

Abhisit mentioned another problem - reds do no allow free political campaigning and resort to violence and intimidation of political opponents.

haha, the government has to work on these areas too. eg. the recent military threats made against the red shirts ,

and the red shirt leaders (15) being tried for something that happened in 2007 : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...ried-for-mayhem

[mc2]

So, after a months of vigorous campaigning it's just one million signatures, not two, and certainly not five.

There were about 40 million votes cast in last elections.

Gives an idea of red popularity.

Well, there was 4.19 m sigs at the last count which is a massive effort, but ferwert is right - elections will tell the tale.

personally its something I would like to see happen ASAP mainly out of disdain for the so called "elite" coup-makers and out of respect for the voting public.

I don't care who wins, except that the Thai people have their say.

[Ferwert]

So, after a months of vigorous campaigning it's just one million signatures, not two, and certainly not five.

There were about 40 million votes cast in last elections.

Gives an idea of red popularity.

Well, there was 4.19 m sigs at the last count which is a massive effort, but ferwert is right - elections will tell the tale.

personally its something I would like to see happen ASAP mainly out of disdain for the so called "elite" coup-makers and out of respect for the voting public.

I don't care who wins, except that the Thai people have their say.

Amen to that MC2....I agree completely. One of the "election avoidance" reasons that are used, is that "Abhisit" has a country to run, and that an election would be a disruption. I think the bureaucracy is so powerful here in Thailand, that the country would run quite effectively during an election interegnum.

Now for some numbers folks.........Read your wonderful media misrepresenting the RS rally as having "more than 10,000", when in fact it was more than 50,000. If I didn't tell you that, who would. And you guys would think in terms of 10,000. These figures are important to get accurate, as it is a direct reflection on what size and strength of citizen movement we have here.

Another important number. My RS sources who have just returned from the rally tell me that there are a total of five million, three hundred thousand signatories on the petition (5,300,000). But I wouldn't vouch for that at the moment. We will see when the dust settles. But for Abhisit and friends to attack this phenomena, and the military to threaten these people is not smart. There are many more like-minded people who support this initiative who didn't get an opportunity to sign the petition. It is generally acknowledged that many more signatures could have been acquired in this region alone, if they had only worked harder. Some significant sized communities were not accessed. So if this 5.3M figure is correct, and you add all the ones that didn't get to sign, gives some perspective.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Ferwert

[Plus]

Nattawut announced on the stage it was 4.19 million, as MC2 said.

Still short of 20 million needed to claim the "majority".

As for disruptions to the country during elections - it's the general agreement that elections WILL disrupt the govt work, for several months.

What's worse is that after these elections to satisfy sour grape red losers and const amendments there will have to be ANOTHER election, in less than a year from now.

Get over that childish rush for a replay, elections will be there.

>>>

And I don't see how Abhisit is going to lose. Dems might not be the biggest party, but the PTP will be well short of a majority and unable to form a working coalition. Even if the manage that, they will be restricted by coalition partners in any moves to help Thaksin. They will have to GOVERN, for once, and that's not what they are there for, and they suck at it - no leader, no economic team, no plans, no policies, just talk talk talk.

[timekeeper]

"More than 10,000 people" Sneaky huh! Why not just say "more than 5 people" Just trying to plant the number 10,000 in peoples mind, instead of the 50,000 or more. I am looking at the TV broadcast of the event, and I see people as far as the eye can see. Sanam Luang is packed. "More than 10,000 people" Yeah right. It is this kind of manipulation that angers me so. And like I said in an earlier post, they will quote the police who have a vested interest in downplaying the strength of the RS, as a way to deflect charges of reporting dishonesty. They constrained themselves to one "fugitive" however.

Farangs understandably get angry when I accuse them of being pawns in the Thai agenized media, but honestly, what would ever make you question the number 10,000. Why do I harp on this numbers thing. It is very significant when measuring the power behind this citizen's movement. !0,000 may be easy to ignore, whereas the true numbers may need to be taken seriously. This diminishment campaign of the pro-democracy Red Shirts by the media is unconscionable.

I honestly had Abhisit smarter than this. Attacking this Petition surely must affect any future electoral strengthening of his. Attacking this petition is an affront to all those who participated. And that is a huge number, and is the voter pool he would need to mine in future elections if he hopes for any electoral growth. It would be so easy to show respect for this petition and these people without any fall-out to him, with some deft politicising. Unbelievable.

ok heres some numbers for you fervent:

if it was 10,000 or even 100,000 people, they are not even close to being representative of the Thai people

10 million people live in Bangkok, (who were only a bus ride away to get to this meeting, if they wanted to)

whats the % of red head support there?

same numbers for this petition, 1 million signatures from a pool of 61 million people

where the support??

even in the northern red head strongholds theres little support

in 1997 Issan had 21 million people about 35% of the Thai population

1 million signatories from 21 million?

wheres the support?

this petition is just a small percentage of red head syndrome fanatics that just can't see the wood for the trees

[rixalex]

My RS sources who have just returned from the rally tell me that there are a total of five million, three hundred thousand signatories on the petition (5,300,000). But I wouldn't vouch for that at the moment.

How will we actually ever know the true number of people that have signed the thing? Who's going to sit down to check and verify it?

Or should we just believe what the reds tell us?

[Crushdepth]

This whole pardon thing is just another way to keep Thaksin in the news. It's nearly as exciting as the 'Big Surpise'.

[h90]

"More than 10,000 people" Sneaky huh! Why not just say "more than 5 people" Just trying to plant the number 10,000 in peoples mind, instead of the 50,000 or more. I am looking at the TV broadcast of the event, and I see people as far as the eye can see. Sanam Luang is packed. "More than 10,000 people" Yeah right. It is this kind of manipulation that angers me so. And like I said in an earlier post, they will quote the police who have a vested interest in downplaying the strength of the RS, as a way to deflect charges of reporting dishonesty. They constrained themselves to one "fugitive" however.

Farangs understandably get angry when I accuse them of being pawns in the Thai agenized media, but honestly, what would ever make you question the number 10,000. Why do I harp on this numbers thing. It is very significant when measuring the power behind this citizen's movement. !0,000 may be easy to ignore, whereas the true numbers may need to be taken seriously. This diminishment campaign of the pro-democracy Red Shirts by the media is unconscionable.

I honestly had Abhisit smarter than this. Attacking this Petition surely must affect any future electoral strengthening of his. Attacking this petition is an affront to all those who participated. And that is a huge number, and is the voter pool he would need to mine in future elections if he hopes for any electoral growth. It would be so easy to show respect for this petition and these people without any fall-out to him, with some deft politicising. Unbelievable.

Old thing...PAD when they took government house you could found for the same event in the press more than 5000, up to 550.000.

No one shy for bringing complete fake numbers.

[h90]

But Poorsucker, Mr. Thaksin has nothing to serve time for and nothing to regret. You need to understand that as the RS say, there were two coups, a military one and then a judicial one. One does not serve time or show remorse for being a victim of two coups.

And there was never any corruption??? How old are you?

[dale8]

Hello, from what I understand about the law in LOS is that someone can only be considered for a pardon if they are serving time in Thailand. Thaksin was convicted and sentenced for corruption, but he has not been to prison so there is no basis for a pardon until he goes back to Thailand as frogs with wings will fly out of his bum. Cheers.

[mc2]

Hello, from what I understand about the law in LOS is that someone can only be considered for a pardon if they are serving time in Thailand. Thaksin was convicted and sentenced for corruption, but he has not been to prison so there is no basis for a pardon until he goes back to Thailand as frogs with wings will fly out of his bum. Cheers.

i assume the technicalities can be over ruled.

or perhaps a deal can be made, 1 or 2 days prison time in exchange for a pardon, for the sake of reconcilliation.

[Ferwert]

Hello, from what I understand about the law in LOS is that someone can only be considered for a pardon if they are serving time in Thailand. Thaksin was convicted and sentenced for corruption, but he has not been to prison so there is no basis for a pardon until he goes back to Thailand as frogs with wings will fly out of his bum. Cheers.

i assume the technicalities can be over ruled.

or perhaps a deal can be made, 1 or 2 days prison time in exchange for a pardon, for the sake of reconcilliation.

What an excellent point mc2.....I spoke in previous posts about this petition being a golden opportunity for "national Reconciliation". That the petition is an opportunity to do some political compromising, negotiation, mediation, or whatever. It is that, or attack it and all the people behind it, threaten them with the military.

Your point speaks to the Political compromising alternative. Being an ex-labour negotiator, let me tell you, there is much that can be done to satisfy many constituencies in this instance, without caving in totally to anyone of them. It seems to me that Abhisit and the military are choosing to be directed by constituencies that are in all likelyhood minority ones in Thailand.

This is an opportunity for Abhisit to demonstrate some statesmanship, if he has any. To treat this Petition and its' vast constituency respectfully, while allowing others to make final decisions regarding its' disposition, would burnish his image like nothing else, and would serve to grow his electoral base hugely. But it appears he doesn't have it in him, or his backers prevent him.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Ferwert

[KireB]

This country will never see any form of reconciliation if the top villans walk free.