Buying Land In Thailand - Fraud

[Sumitr Man]

...[deleted for ease]

Actually, from what I remember of reading the law, the need for declarations also applies to "marriages" where the marriage has not been registered, i.e. where Thai and foreigner are cohabiting as partners.  I'm sure Sumitr Man could clear this up...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charles:

From my reading, Thailand does not have the concept "common law" wife or cohabitee (with all the rights that go with such) in the same way as is the case in the West.

I'd freely admit to being wrong here, but my reading is based on Sections 1457 and 1458 of the CCC and Ajarn Wimolsiri Jamnarnwej's Family Law Of Thailand.

For your ease of reference, S. 1457 & 1458 read as follows:

1457

Marriage under this Code shall be effected only on registration being made.

1458

A marriage can take place only if the man and woman agree to take each other as husband and wife, and such agreement must be declared publicly before the Registrar in order to have it recorded by the Registrar.

As cohabitees would not be legally married, I cannot see why there would be any need for the [foreign] man to sign a form saying he held no claim over the land unless he stood as guarantor and/or lender. In which case, he may need to - but not as husband, but rather as guarantor/lender he would have to say he had no claim to reimbursement himself of any loss he may incur by taking action against the property. Other than that, I think the situation would just be subject to normal Thai law.

As I say though, happy to be corrected - but I believe this to be the current position.

[pedro01]

I dont think this will work out well at all. Im sorry you put so much trust into these people. I have heard thousands of stories of farangs getting ripped of in land deals, over the years.

I dont care about this being politically correct or not, but when any foreigner buys land in Thailand, use a Foreign Broker or Lawyer to do all of the due dilligance.

In my experience 99% of foreigners who have been in the business for at least 5 years (or reputable) will tell you everything you need to know, instead of, anything you ask about, if your using a Thai.

Yes, this is Thailand and people can say what they like, but a foreigner, will save you more money and headaches, if you use the right ones.

I hope it works out for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With respect Tornado, I have come across more crooked farang 'developer wanabees' and 'land agents' than Thai one's. Selling chanots without the land even being split is one of the prime examples, Upping the owner pirce is another very widespread practice invariably done by a farang. The smooth Farang and his Thai 'lawyer' mate are some of the worst examples I have seen. Granted a lot of this has happended in Chonburi but Phuket is just as bad - at least in Chonburi the chanots when they are granted are correct and legal. Dealing with the absolute owner of the land is critical and never believe anything any intermediary be it Thai or farang says - speak it through with the owner, include it in the sale contract and be honourable. Most Thai landowners are VERY nervous of Thai and farang land agents as none of them have a good name. Build the credibility with the owner and time after time of doing it I have never come unstuck. Also very important to have a lawyer on your side that is highly regarded and LOCAL to the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai or Farang - you need to find a law firm you can trust.

Always employ your own lawyer - never use the one recommended by the person you are doing business with.

[Bobcat]

Sumitr Man - In a properly documented transaction, a Thai person/entity who holds the majority of shares in a Thai company that owns land, even where the subscription monies have been loaned to that Thai person by the foreign partner and where a preference share structure has been used to give effective control of the company owning the land to the foreign party, would not be seen to be acting as an agent of the foreigner as such term is used in Section 797 of the CCC. In a properly documented structure the Thai shareholder would have no authority, either express or implied, to act for the the foreign shareholder. I have confirmation that this position is correct by several reputable law firms as well as high-ranking officials in the Land Department.

[Sumitr Man]

Bobcat -

I totally accept what you are saying. As I may have mentioned, I'm not a lawyer, and I have no practical experience of these matters - only what I read. You on the other hand appear to have had practical experience in this matter; and as we all know, practical experience doesn't always reflect what we read

That said, if I were a Thai involved in such a structure, I may well be asking you for an indemnity against any loss I may incur...

SM

Edited March 22, 2005 by Sumitr Man

[Bobcat]

I agree with you Sumitr Man - a Thai shareholder in such a scenario may wish to ask for an indemnity - but as long as his/her/its shares are fully paid then there is no risk of liability. Under Thai law, a shareholder is only liable up to an amount equal to his/her/its unpaid capital. As long as the capital is fully paid, no problem. However, as a matter of prudence, an indemnity is a good idea - although only of any worth if the person giving the indemnity is actually worth something.

[NedKelly]

There is a lot to be said about the word 'acceptance' ........ as with 'tolerance', 'acceptance' is important. We cant just rock up and start buying up land and developing it in Thailand. I am sure that inthe future there will be some sort of 'reaction' by locals against this type of thing. The Thai laws are there for a very good reason......imagine if there was no restrictions on foreign ownership here......land would be too expensive for a majority of local and expats alike. Have a look at real estate ads from Phuket....it's a complete joke......houses going for 50,000,000 baht and so on.

If you want to buy land and live on it or develop it then do it in a sensitive way........get to know the locals and once they accept you and yo ufeel comfortable then maybe raise the subject with the local headman.......then maybe you can feel justified in procuring land in Thailand. Of course this is in an ideal world. Reality is that many people wont be doing this. But they always say that you should live where u want to buy first so you know the area.

[wishfulthinking]

uh, beeing new also in the land buying business...

my husband (Thai) just bought land (with his money) and the land office didn't ask him to do any clearance, there is nothing on his id about being married to a farang. now, for future's sake, would it be a good idea to keep quiet or not?

[stevehaigh]

uh, beeing new also in the land buying business...

my husband (Thai) just bought land (with his money) and the land office didn't ask him to do any clearance, there is nothing on his id about being married to a farang. now, for future's sake, would it be a good idea to keep quiet or not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no problem for him but be aware that you have absoutely no claim to the land under any circumstances.

[wishfulthinking]

I'm very aware of that... now I've been considering of buying this land from him, practically by leasing it by this 30+30 year thing. Reading this forum plus other stuff on the net I find it very confusing as for what happens to the lease if we get divorced or if he dies before me and the renewal...

Me and his heirs are not in good terms, to add...