My Wife Just Been Refused Uk Settlement Visa

[Bird on the Wire]

Having read this thread, it escapes me how it can be thought that the OP and his wife are trying to buck the system. That she entered the UK illegally is hardly down to the OP, as they appear to have met following her arrival. It seems to me that they've done the right thing by her returning to Thailand and applying for a visa to return, acknowledging her previously unlawful presence in the UK in to the bargain.

How is the OP meant to have done things differently?

[Mossfinn]

Do not use an adviser unless they are at least a level 2 OISC registered adviser. To the best of my knowledge, there are none in Thailand.

I agree with the first part and I believe you are correct with the second, however I will add you can use an advisor outside of Thailand, we live in an electronic age, use it is my advice, edit ( the last part is aimed at the OP, not you '7 )

Edited August 9, 2009 by Mossfinn

[Mossfinn]

Before I scrolled down to read the contents of this post I just had a little side bet with my ( Thai ) wife as to the reason that the refusal was made ,,,,,,,,and guess what ,,,,, yep BINGO,,,,,,WHY OH WHY so many people think somehow they can buck the system and shortcircuit what the rest of us have to go thro to do it properly. Even when the original post was made you the OP could not even face the truth and stick all the facts up. If you had done things properly in the frist place you would be together now.

And you guessed what exactly??

Lack of contact?

Or Illegal entry?

Or both??

As for the first he may be able to rectify, although it is not entirely a write off in itself, as for the second, as has been shown by four knowledgeable posters, there is reasonable room for movement, if challenged competently.

But thanks for the post Nige, it contributes suitably amongst those that are a guide to be Deep Sixed

Edited August 9, 2009 by Mossfinn

[nigelandjan]

Thanks to everyone for your replies, My wife was refused on two reasons,

1, they didnt think we had enough proof or our relationship between Oct'06- Oct'07, (We only have 1-email and 4-5 photos all texts, proof of phone calls have gone ) But i have lots of proof from Jan07- present day.

2, My wife has been in the UK before ilegally, she has also stated that she knew she was comming to the counrty ilegally but did so anyway, they have said she has shown disrespect for our imigration laws, we told them the complete truth and havent tried to hide anything, also my wife handed herself over to the authorities herself and she was not forced to leave, im hoping this helps.

Thanks again people, I will not give up until me and my wife are together. Looks like I will have to make an apeal and hire the relavent specialists. If anyone knows of a specialist who has done cases like this before, please pass on the details.

Many thanks.

Before I scrolled down to read the contents of this post I just had a little side bet with my ( Thai ) wife as to the reason that the refusal was made ,,,,,,,,and guess what ,,,,, yep BINGO,,,,,,WHY OH WHY so many people think somehow they can buck the system and shortcircuit what the rest of us have to go thro to do it properly. Even when the original post was made you the OP could not even face the truth and stick all the facts up. If you had done things properly in the frist place you would be together now.

OH yer thats afat lot of help to the guy,if your going to post try something positive,this guy is looking for advice not critisism.

When I want your advice I will let you know ,in the meantime dont waste your time on here , go and get some grammar lessons

[nigelandjan]

Before I scrolled down to read the contents of this post I just had a little side bet with my ( Thai ) wife as to the reason that the refusal was made ,,,,,,,,and guess what ,,,,, yep BINGO,,,,,,WHY OH WHY so many people think somehow they can buck the system and shortcircuit what the rest of us have to go thro to do it properly. Even when the original post was made you the OP could not even face the truth and stick all the facts up. If you had done things properly in the frist place you would be together now.

And you guessed what exactly??

Lack of contact?

Or Illegal entry?

Or both??

As for the first he may be able to rectify, although it is not entirely a write off in itself, as for the second, as has been shown by four knowledgeable posters, there is reasonable room for movement, if challenged competently.

But thanks for the post Nige, it contributes suitably amongst those that are a guide to be Deep Sixed

Guessed it was another numpty in wonderland,,,,,,,,,,look over your shoulder

[nigelandjan]

Having read this thread, it escapes me how it can be thought that the OP and his wife are trying to buck the system. That she entered the UK illegally is hardly down to the OP, as they appear to have met following her arrival. It seems to me that they've done the right thing by her returning to Thailand and applying for a visa to return, acknowledging her previously unlawful presence in the UK in to the bargain.

How is the OP meant to have done things differently?

Entering the UK illegally ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is not trying to buck the system ????????????

[7by7]

Do not use an adviser unless they are at least a level 2 OISC registered adviser. To the best of my knowledge, there are none in Thailand.

I agree with the first part and I believe you are correct with the second, however I will add you can use an advisor outside of Thailand, we live in an electronic age, use it is my advice, edit ( the last part is aimed at the OP, not you '7 )

Sorry, I should, of course, have added that there are plenty in the UK.

[Castor83]

Having read this thread, it escapes me how it can be thought that the OP and his wife are trying to buck the system. That she entered the UK illegally is hardly down to the OP, as they appear to have met following her arrival. It seems to me that they've done the right thing by her returning to Thailand and applying for a visa to return, acknowledging her previously unlawful presence in the UK in to the bargain.

How is the OP meant to have done things differently?

Entering the UK illegally ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is not trying to buck the system ????????????

I'm yet to find "bucking the system" listed as one of the reasons to refuse a settlement visa.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Do not use an adviser unless they are at least a level 2 OISC registered adviser. To the best of my knowledge, there are none in Thailand.

I agree with the first part and I believe you are correct with the second, however I will add you can use an advisor outside of Thailand, we live in an electronic age, use it is my advice, edit ( the last part is aimed at the OP, not you '7 )

Correct Moss we are at level 1 but we are looking to go to level 2 however we use Davis Khan for our level 2 work if the client requires an appeal however some do not want to listen.

[torment]

Hi there Torment .

I have read thru your post and I am sorry to hear about this for you. Like Kate said I was in the same situation as you and castor and with lots of work and patience, got Gerry Grant to overturn the decision. Only I didn't have the illegal entry involved. However I think Im right in thinking that this rule shouldn't apply when its a spouse settlement visa?? someone correct me if Im wrong on that, but I think it is the case.

If it is, then I think castor covered lots of great points in his message of what to do. You really have to become a P.I and prove your case. Get loads of documents that proves BEYOND any doubt your relationship. I went to speak to my MP and he wrote a letter for us too, although I never got any idea of if this helped us or not, I think its good to cover ALL bases.

Just stay calm and once you have all your new evidence together, write a proffesional type letter only talking about the facts of the matter, no emotional stuff. I wrote my letter very factual like a lawyer would. Fax and email everything directly to Gerrard Grant, with your APET number on every page. I did that and then sent the hard copies to Bangkok DHL from UK. It might also be an idea to get your good lady to also get evidence of your relationship from HER friends and collegues. If both of you fax and email info to Gerry Grant, it is another angle to show your both together in this.

Once you have done what you need to, dont let this go cold. If you send them info follow it up maybe a few days later with a call.

As for whether or not to appeal, well... I tried to just go the informal way of neither. A letter from me , lots of new evidence to Gerrard Grant and trying to get him to overturn it. After about 3 weeks of sending and faxing things to him, I got a message from him saying to get Miss Pingit to fill in the appeal form and fax it ASAP. It wasn't what I wanted to hear really, however, the next day he overturned the visa. I did speak with him, and he said that I could send him all the evidence in the world, but without the appeal form he cant overturn anything. so... my advice would be to get all this evidence that you can possibly think of and fax email and send it to him, and also fill in the appeal form and send it. If your case is rock solid then Im sure it will be overturned locally in Bangkok fairly quickly. To give you a time scale , it took me 6 weeks to get this overturned. It will only be a lengthy process if you CAN'T convince Gerrard Grant in Bangkok. He is the man you need to appeal to. If he's still not happy then it gets sent to a tribunual in the UK and takes ages. IF that where to happen to me, I was going to cancel the appeal, and do a new rock solid application at that point. It would be faster.

If I can help in anyway please let me know, I totally know this is a nightmare having gone thru it only a month and a half ago.

ALL THE BEST MATE !! Always look UP

Hi there, firstly sorry for my late reply, you must think me very rude, truth is i have been all over the place since i got this news and havent been my normal self, thanks alot for your input and advice, I currently have employed a very good immigration lawyer to handle my appeal, what with my wife having a bad history, illegal entrant, working illegally, i thought it must be best to have a proffesional lawyer get involved, On the original application visa we gave tons of evidence mate, photos, saved e-mails, saved msn chat, saved msn webcam pictures, birthday cards, wedding certificate, wedding pictures, phone bills, phone cards, personal cards from family to us etc etc, i really dont know what more i could have done to prove we are in a relationship and in love. I also gave them photos of my appartment, the mortgage deeds!!!! bank statements, a personal letter from my employees telling them im a good worker and will continue to have a job for the future. I done all this and more, my lawyer seems to think there getting really hard on the ilegal side of her entering the country and that is the soul reason why we was refused. He believes if handeled right, the case could be overturned, all though this could take over six months!!!!maybe longer and thats just for the court case,

My appeal has already been logged.

I think it may be to late to write to Mr Grant now, as ive already appealed. But you got your decision overturned in 6 weeks, I be so happy if that happened to us, but i believe because our case is different writing to Mr Grant wont help us also if i was to do a whole new application, nothing has changed? she entered england illegally, how does me waiting 6 months and then making a new visa application change this? all that will happen is they will come back again saying refused as your wife entered and worked in the UK illegaly> Im sure one day we will get a visa, she is my wife who i love very much, if i apply for a visa for her say twice a year, sooner or later they will have to relise this is real love and grant the visa. I pray that common sence provails and our appeal is accepted and me and my wife can live together like any other married couple .

Thanks again

[pingit]

Hey Torment

no I dont think your rude at all. you must be running around crazy physically and mentally ! I truly wish you all the best mate in getting this sorted. Im not an expert in any form of what the laws are on illegal entry, and Im sure you know the in's and out's of where you stand on this by now. I did read tho, that these illegal entry rules shouldn't apply to spouse settlement visa's? is this where you stand and how your appeal is going to be based on? I'm not going to ask what the situation was when your wife was here illegally BUT i do have experience with this too... a long time ago I went out with a thai girl in the uk who was here studying for 1 year. Around 9 months into her study she gave all her info to a lawyer to extend her visa for further study. Now, this was a while back and I had no idea about immigration. Her friend made an appointment at her lawyers for her, but actually immigration wasn't this lawyers field. He tried to do the application and things, and sent her passport away to the home office, ( or so he said he did ) , and things dragged on until her visa was about to expire. When asking him "what should I do , my visa is about to expire??" .. he said just stay here and wait for a decision. Obviously he was not the best lawyer to have dealt with this, and to cut a long story short she was then here, technically, illegally ! But it wasn't in anyway to try and cut corners or dis the system, but none the less ILLEGALLY.

months went by, and then immigration visted her at her home, and took her for an interview. I also went along to give my side of the story. Eventually they were sympathetic, but at the end of the day, she either left on her own free will, or get deported. They must have trusted her because they allowed her to go home take a few weeks to get organized and leave UK. Apon leaving I met the immigration officer at the airport, and he advised me that she has been here Illegally, regardless of why, and that the only way back in would probably be marriage. So we did get married, and in the same year she was given a settlement visa, even tho she had been here ILLEGALLY. Thats why I think that you will be ok soon, as you are now married and these rules shouldn't apply to people who are now married.

Just wanted to share that with you, so you know it is not a dead end my friend !! good luck man !!!

[7by7]

I did read tho, that these illegal entry rules shouldn't apply to spouse settlement visa's?

If an applicant previously entered the UK legally, but then overstayed then the 'overstay rules' wont apply to, among others, someone applying for settlement as a spouse.

However, as is the case with both Castor and Torment, if the person has previously entered the UK illegally then they can be refused, if there are certain aggravating factors.

See this thread for more discussion on this.

I imagine that the basis of both appeals is that the 'aggravating factors' are not sufficient for the refusal to be valid. Whether this is the case or not is for the immigration tribunal to decide.

[Electra]

Actually, illegal entry, in the context of a Para 320( 11 ) refusal, is no different to a legal entry followed by a working in breach or overstay and the principle of ' aggravating ' circumstances applies equally. The aggravating circumstances referred to in the guidance in the UKBA website is not apparently exhaustive and is ill defined as further breaches of immigration rules and the obtaining of benefits by those who are not qualified to receive them. Treatment under the NHS has been cited as an aggravating circumstance but since no such abuse is defined in the immigration rules this is an example of the UKBA, yet again, over reaching itself in order to fulfil an agenda the current government has no mandate to discharge beyond some woolly headed robustness unsupported by any legislation. In fact Para 320 ( 11 ) is a nonsense and has been administratively created to counter the affect of Human Rights legislation by introducing some notion that public policy considerations should still outweigh their obligations under it.

It is doomed to failure and rightly so but I'm sure some Immigration Judge will give it airtime for the same reason most ECOs are driven to use it.

[7by7]

What should be obvious to most people is that there is a difference between the bald statement of the rules and the guidance issued to aid the interpretation of those rules.

Obviously the guidance will be more detailed.

Whether the correct interpretation has been used in these cases is for the immigration tribunal to decide.

[iainiain101]

Obviously there is a difference between overstay and illegal entry.

Surely it is of some relevance how illegal entry was gained to the UK?

Was it oversight by a border official miss reading a visa date and allowing entry? - This could be put down to an error from both parties. (Just remembered she has admitted knowing she was entering illegally)

Was it being smuggled into the UK, or using a forged/stolen passport? - This would need some better explanation.

Just my thoughts

Iain

Edited August 18, 2009 by iainiain101

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Good luck.

[Datsun240Z]

Here we go again. The problem with you ( OP ) and your wifes application is EVIDENCE. That's what it's all about sadly. Do what the letter is told you to do. Do not apply again, until you have enough evidence. It's doesn't matter what, anything between your wife and you that is documented can be used. Further more, if you have other family ( OP ) in the U.K that can help financially, also add that paperwork. The more the better. You have to make the application some kind of bookwork. But make sure you have worked out everything.

Report the number of this letter that is given to you, in your next applyment. If you need personal help, can always p.m me.

I can sit all day at those embassies, and you can clearly see which people have dealed with the embassy before. Some come with a whole package, some with a few loose papers, hold together with a paperclip, that's mostly a failure.

[Brigante7]

Torment sorry to here the bad news and wish you very good luck.

Even if your wife has been on overstay it is surely a human rights violation to keep a family apart.

I'm sorry monkfish but you're having a laugh, aren't you? what you are saying is that if the OP's wife broke the law, then she shouldn't be punished in case her human rights are violated, is that what you are saying?

It took me 8 months to get my g/f a visa to the UK, she was denied 2 tourist visa's and so we had to go the fiance visa route, because some people can't be bothered playing by the rules and so it makes it so much harder for everybody else, I'm sorry the OP's wife has been refused a visa but maybe if she hadn't broken the law then she would stand a better chance of geting a visa.

Brigante7.

[Datsun240Z]

That's true, but she can still make it.