Thai Navy Apologizes For Flying Into Khmer Territory

[george]

Thai Navy apologizes for flying into Khmer territory

This is the first time Thai aircraft flied into Cambodian land

Phnom Penh: -- Cambodia has received a letter of apology from the commander of a Thai airbase apologizing for a series of Thai air force flights that crossed into Cambodian territory in the past week, local media reported.

A Cambodian general told the Phnom Penh Post newspaper that the commander of Thailand's Chantaburi-Trat airbase, whom he did not name, had written that the incidents were due to bad weather affecting the navigation systems of the aircraft.

"We accepted the letter of apology by the Thai military but we have warned Thailand's airbase that we will not take responsibility for a second repeated airspace violation," General Bun Seng said .

The general said incursions usually took place over disputed areas on the border between the two nations, but said this time Thai aircraft had flown 30 kilometres inside Cambodia.

"This is the first time they have flown so far into Cambodian territory," he said.

A spokesman for the Cambodian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the government accepted the apology, but warned that subsequent incursions would "be dangerous."

Cambodia and Thailand have a longstanding dispute over their 804-kilometre common border.

In the past year several Cambodian and Thai soldiers have been killed and injured in skirmishes around Preah Vihear temple on the border in the north of Cambodia.

-- The Nation 2009-08-19

[dale8]

Hello, it is difficult to distinguish between bad weather affecting the instruments or poor judgement to incite a reaction. It is better to use a better argument for people to respect your position, and force will only make people more defensive. I do not understand what any military air excercise would be productive close to the Cambodian border other than to anger them, or maybe they want to make them fear the potential force.

[geovalin]

30 km is not a mistake. When bad weather, what do you do if you are a pilot? You stay home, first of all if you are not so brave.

It's an obvious provocation from rogue Thai soldiers.

They hope the Cambodian will reply too hastily to finally begin the war they wish.

The question is to know at which level these soldiers take their order.

I'm pretty sure this is NOT Abisith.

Are they only a handful of hotheads or is this an important faction of the army with important officers and powerful advisers at the top?

[Thai at Heart]

I got a little confused when I saw the Navy apologising for flying. I thought they had got the aircraft carrier out of mothballs.

They were just reminding the Thai govt about who really runs the country.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[geovalin]

I got a little confused when I saw the Navy apologising for flying. I thought they had got the aircraft carrier out of mothballs.

They were just reminding the Thai govt about who really runs the country.

Good post, old chap (both of us are TV members since the same 6 years! OMG!)

About the aircraft carrier, Wikipedia writes "It was delivered to Thailand in 1997. The ship is largely inactive due to a shortage of funds after the Asian financial crisis. " It means it had been used as the crisis began in 1997.

All of us know the purpose of such a purchase by Thai army.

[Bagwan]

If Navy fliers navigation is that bad, what chance have they of homing in on a el cheapo mini carrier at sea?

If it happens again why not shoot them down and then say you made an honest mistake? Worked every time for old square face. By all means reimburse Thailand, but only for the scrap value.

[Jimjim1968]

<h3 class="todayBigStory"> Thai Navy apologizes for flying into Khmer territory </h3> "This is the first time Thai aircraft flied into Cambodian land"

Can't The Nation employ at least someone who can spell? I can't recall the times I have seen such poor spelling and basic grammar errors.

[RKASA]

It would be cheaper to pay google to get those pictures.  Maybe they will even do a drive around for them and call it google trac in world park.  

[venturalaw]

30 km is not a mistake. When bad weather, what do you do if you are a pilot? You stay home, first of all if you are not so brave.

It's an obvious provocation from rogue Thai soldiers.

They hope the Cambodian will reply too hastily to finally begin the war they wish.

The question is to know at which level these soldiers take their order.

I'm pretty sure this is NOT Abisith.

Are they only a handful of hotheads or is this an important faction of the army with important officers and powerful advisers at the top?

I know nothing about this type of issue, but noticed that the news stated that ""Cambodia has received a letter of apology from the commander of a Thai airbase apologizing for a series of Thai air force flights that crossed into Cambodian territory in the past week, local media reported." Doesn't this answer the question as to whether an important faction of the army is involved?

[Scott]

There excuse sounds dodgy to me, unless they were flying a hot-air balloon.

[noahvail]

Could one of you math whizzes calculate this one out, please? If a jet is going 800 kph when it crosses the border, how long before it reaches 30 km inside Cambodia? Assuming it does take some time to turn the aircraft around at that speed, when do you estimate the pilot would have realized the error (whether it was his error or the weather's, doesn't matter for this exercise). Thanks...

[venturalaw]

There excuse sounds dodgy to me, unless they were flying a hot-air balloon.

I agree with you regarding the excuse provided, but my question is if higher ups in the Thai military were involved, would they be apologizing?

[Scott]

I am wondering what kind of weather would cause this kind of error? I don't remember any typhoon going by. And generally military planes are very, very careful when they are in border areas.

At any rate, the apology is rather mystifying. The military (anywhere) isn't usually much on acknowledging they made a mistake.

[slapout]

Could one of you math whizzes calculate this one out, please? If a jet is going 800 kph when it crosses the border, how long before it reaches 30 km inside Cambodia? Assuming it does take some time to turn the aircraft around at that speed, when do you estimate the pilot would have realized the error (whether it was his error or the weather's, doesn't matter for this exercise). Thanks...

To ask another question, do you think the same pilot at same airspeed could pull up to avoid a head on into a 2 km mountain prior to the 15 km mark? I would guess division and multipliers was not your strong point in grade school.

[noahvail]

Full points to you, slapout. Division and multipliers was not my strong point. That is exactly why I asked the question. It would have been nice of you to answer it.

[lectito]

2minutes 15 seconds.

[noahvail]

2minutes 15 seconds.

Thank you.

[Johpa]

I got a little confused when I saw the Navy apologising for flying. I thought they had got the aircraft carrier out of mothballs.

They were just reminding the Thai govt about who really runs the country.

The RTN has been the weakest branch of the Thai military since they sponsored a failed coup decades ago. There only recent success was scamming the government into buying that useless aircraft carrier and allowing the admirals to take a piece of that action into their pockets. But otherwise the Navy does not influence politics the same way that the Army does. The Royal Thai Army, nor the RTAF, would never have to issue an apology and suffer the consequent loss of face.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Johpa

[Thai at Heart]

I got a little confused when I saw the Navy apologising for flying. I thought they had got the aircraft carrier out of mothballs.

They were just reminding the Thai govt about who really runs the country.

The RTN has been the weakest branch of the Thai military since they sponsored a failed coup decades ago. There only recent success was scamming the government into buying that useless aircraft carrier and allowing the admirals to take a piece of that action into their pockets. But otherwise the Navy does not influence politics the same way that the Army does. The Royal Thai Army, nor the RTAF, would never have to issue an apology and suffer the consequent loss of face.

I wasn't meaning that the Navy was showing they were in control, more that he armed forces as a group were doing so.

I am sure, that at no point would the army be able to influence a fighter pilot and his base commander that a little bit of sabre rattling wouldn't make those in Bangkok pucker up a bit and run the country the right way.

They have been flying up and down that part of the world for the last 50 years, and as if by magic, when all the shenanagins is going on in Bangkok someone inadvertently flies into Cambodia. I don't think this was an accident. The plane may have belonged to the Navy, but it took off from a base, not from a boat, so it is not enough to say that the Navy alone was involved.

Then on a slightly different level, has Thailand ever apologised before for something like this irrespective of what part of the armed forces was at fault? There is no absolute line of control in the armed forces, they all have their cliques and agendas.

[DP25]

I got a little confused when I saw the Navy apologising for flying. I thought they had got the aircraft carrier out of mothballs.

They were just reminding the Thai govt about who really runs the country.

Good post, old chap (both of us are TV members since the same 6 years! OMG!)

About the aircraft carrier, Wikipedia writes "It was delivered to Thailand in 1997. The ship is largely inactive due to a shortage of funds after the Asian financial crisis. " It means it had been used as the crisis began in 1997.

All of us know the purpose of such a purchase by Thai army.

Wikipedia is full of it. The Thai aircraft carrier participates in naval exercises all the time, some with multiple nations involved. In the past year it has engaged in amphibious assault exercises in southern Thailand, naval exercises with a US carrier, missile tests, search and rescue exercises, etc. It is an active ship and is NOT mothballed.

Naval aircraft don't all operate from aircraft carriers anyway. The Thai navy has other vessels that can carry a helicopter that they frequently use, as well as a large number of land based aircraft used for various purposes.

[geriatrickid]

As one that is quick to criticize the Thai military leadership, I am willing to take the apology for what it was, an apology for a error in judgement on the part of the naval aviators and their base leadership. Two of the leading causes of death for many militaries are "accidents" and friendly fire. As such, I am willing to believe that some adrenalin pumped flyers screwed up. Human error. Anyone that has encountered naval aviators will note their brashness and at times cockiness. It is particularly acute in the younger pilots. I suppose some would toss in that their short stature gives them the chip on their shoulder attitude, but they are a tough group to control. They are always pushing the envelope. The same qualities that can make you want to punch them in the nose are the ones that make them good at what they do, loyal and what can keep them alive in dangerous conditions. The Thai equipment is hardly state of the art and I wouldn't be surprised if the pilots thought they were sliding along the border because that's what the navigation information told them.

The senior Thai navy leadership tends to be professional and they aren't the thugs one associates with the army. At least that's my experience in the limited contacts I have had with them. I'd even go a step further and praise the medical officers who have been nothing but helpful and cooperative in all research projects they have participated in. That's why I just can't see the Thai navy leadership giving its blessing to such a provocation. The leadership doesn't go looking for trouble. They will follow orders from the command, which is army dominated. Hence, the delicate balancing act they have.

Rather than berate the leadership for doing the right thing and recognizing an error, they should be thanked for their demonstration of real leadership by accepting that an error was made. When was the last time you saw the army doing something like that?

[aussiejosh]

Does anyone else think all abhisavit needs is a war to bring about some national unity under his government?

[Bagwan]

Wikipedia is full of it. The Thai aircraft carrier participates in naval exercises all the time, some with multiple nations involved. In the past year it has engaged in amphibious assault exercises in southern Thailand, naval exercises with a US carrier, missile tests, search and rescue exercises, etc. It is an active ship and is NOT mothballed.

Naval aircraft don't all operate from aircraft carriers anyway. The Thai navy has other vessels that can carry a helicopter that they frequently use, as well as a large number of land based aircraft used for various purposes.

No warship participates in naval exercises all the time. Self care and maintenance periods occur at about three monthly intervals, is handed over to dockyard care when serious defects occur and is dry docked at least annually to clean off the marine life that attaches itself to the hull. But that, I admit, is nitpicking.

My understanding is that Thailand purchased ten or twelve Hawker Harriers and for some time only one has been capable of operations. The rest have been bent through pilot error or hardware malfunction and several have been canabalised for spare parts. The US Marines, who adored the Harrier as it could truly provide close air support, admitted that they found it a difficult aircraft to fully control so that so many have been damaged is no great surprise. Being low in the pecking order the Thai Navy is always strapped for cash and I assume that they cannot afford a full kit of spare parts or a comprehensive education and training programme for English speaking mechanics, both mechanical and airframe. The fuel bill for such a vesel would not be cheap either.

So we have a situation where only one aircraft is capable of operating from this white elephant carrier. Given their lack of practice one has to wonder about the expertise and professionalism of the deck handling crews or of those that refuel and rearm the solitary airplane. Not much of a threat is it?

The 64 dollar question is of course to what purpose could this expensive toy be put? Which nation is Thailand ever going to war with that so that an aircraft carrier would be a useful weapon to have in the armoury? You might ask the same question regarding the submarines that Thailand - read the forces of evil corruption - wants to buy. BTW the deepest point in the Gulf of Thailand is eighty metres and the narrow and hazardous Malacca Strait even shallower. Hardy submarine country.

[ParadiseLost]

... the commander of Thailand's Chantaburi-Trat airbase, whom he did not name, had written that the incidents were due to bad weather affecting the navigation systems of the aircraft.

Windows misted up from the pot noodle on the dash...

Edited August 20, 2009 by ParadiseLost

[Oberkommando]

The 64 dollar question is of course to what purpose could this expensive toy be put? Which nation is Thailand ever going to war with that so that an aircraft carrier would be a useful weapon to have in the armoury?

It makes a great day out on open days apparently.

Just a shame foreigners are forbidden to attend.

[noithip]

No warship participates in naval exercises all the time. Self care and maintenance periods occur at about three monthly intervals, is handed over to dockyard care when serious defects occur and is dry docked at least annually to clean off the marine life that attaches itself to the hull. But that, I admit, is nitpicking.

My understanding is that Thailand purchased ten or twelve Hawker Harriers and for some time only one has been capable of operations. The rest have been bent through pilot error or hardware malfunction and several have been canabalised for spare parts. The US Marines, who adored the Harrier as it could truly provide close air support, admitted that they found it a difficult aircraft to fully control so that so many have been damaged is no great surprise. Being low in the pecking order the Thai Navy is always strapped for cash and I assume that they cannot afford a full kit of spare parts or a comprehensive education and training programme for English speaking mechanics, both mechanical and airframe. The fuel bill for such a vesel would not be cheap either.

So we have a situation where only one aircraft is capable of operating from this white elephant carrier. Given their lack of practice one has to wonder about the expertise and professionalism of the deck handling crews or of those that refuel and rearm the solitary airplane. Not much of a threat is it?

The 64 dollar question is of course to what purpose could this expensive toy be put? Which nation is Thailand ever going to war with that so that an aircraft carrier would be a useful weapon to have in the armoury? You might ask the same question regarding the submarines that Thailand - read the forces of evil corruption - wants to buy. BTW the deepest point in the Gulf of Thailand is eighty metres and the narrow and hazardous Malacca Strait even shallower. Hardy submarine country.

I found funny material regarding the submarine issue you brought up. At the moment the media is talking a lot about this guy Viktor Bout? This is a testimony of a Navy-captain from the extradition case, apperantly talking about him coming to survey Thungprong Port for the possibility for submarine launches. I thought it's quite funny having this guy coming here as an expert for the Thai Navy and getting jailed as "Merchant of Death".

Back on topic, I personally also think it is unlikely they would apologize for it if it wouldn't be a mistake.

Captain_Anurak_Prom_ngam_testimony_Eng_.pdf

[DP25]

No warship participates in naval exercises all the time.

In that context it means often, not constantly. As in, it's not mothballed, and engages in multiple exercises per year. I'm not sure where you're getting your information that only 1 of the harriers is operational, just a couple years ago they flew multiple when Spanish royalty visited. One did crash a few years ago, but there is definitely more than one plane available if was ever needed. Besides, they're 30 years old and they came with the ship, and the ship was very inexpensive anyway at under $200 million. In the future they could purchase the carrier variant of the F-35 if they decide they need jets instead of helicopters on it.

You seem to think that carriers are only used for air supremacy. The ship is currently used as a helicopter carrier, amphibious assault ship, anti submarine warfare, search and rescue ship, and disaster relief ship. It's far from a useless, and honestly was quite a good deal for the price they paid.

A quick youtube search in Thai gives this newsclip to show it active back last April (Thai military pictures and clips are quite difficult to find). It's only launching some helicopters, missiles, and troops, but it's operational and in regular use.

[321niti123]

There excuse sounds dodgy to me, unless they were flying a hot-air balloon.

Agree 100%!!!

The Article also said "a series of flights" which indicate more than one, hardly a mistake.

Stupid Navy, if they cant be calm they shouldn't be involve with politics.

If there excuse was actually true, then they would have no chance in beating the Khmers the next time there's an 'equipment failure'

[Datsun240Z]

Well Thais originate from Cambodian people, Thailand was own by what's now Cambodia. Can imagine they hate each other.

[Bagwan]

The 64 dollar question is of course to what purpose could this expensive toy be put? Which nation is Thailand ever going to war with that so that an aircraft carrier would be a useful weapon to have in the armoury?

It makes a great day out on open days apparently.

Just a shame foreigners are forbidden to attend.

Perhaps they don't want us to see the crap mess that they have made of it. I have no fears about the expertise or services provided by the laundry or the galley - but the rest of it? Plenty of room for Sepak Takraw though, but then a real Navy would play deck hockey - but not against the women's Services. Playing aginst a WRENS team was a terrifying experience.