Cruelty-and-heartlessness

[yumidesign]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...d-heartlessness

excellent, its a shame that the powers that be in Thailand are only interested in getting their noses in the trough blinding them from any bigger picture

[simon43]

An excellent and honest article!

Simon

[ThaiPauly]

What a waste of life...so young as well

[WaiWai]

Read it this morning, too.

Good to see some opinion pieces like this appearing.

[dale8]

Hello, thank you for the link to read this opinion article. More Thai people should be outraged as to what their government does to the unfortunate and poor looking to get a better life. There must be human rights accountability for all the people given the power of authority, but this is not always the case in the LOS.

[micksterbs]

Thank you for posting that link, yumidesign. In the past, whenever I've drawn stories like this to the attention of Thai friends, wife etc, they either squirm uncomfortably or say something that implies that, as a Westerner, I'm "soft" and unaware of the underlying reasons for such behaviour; i.e. Thai authority is always right.

[midasthailand]

What a refreshingly frank assessment of Thai racism and nationalism, pity it was wasted on readers of the Bankok Post. Kind of like preaching to the converted. I would wager that the same article was not published in the Thai language dailys!

[samran]

Before we get all high and mightly, I'd remind people what these attitudes aren't merely confined to Thailand.

Australians were happy for the best part of 8 years to have boat people locked up on pacific islands or out in the middle of the desert, under detention. This went for the kids who were on those boats as well. Elections were won over who would lock up the most immigrants in the most god forsaken of places.

The 'bloody illegal migrants' attitude got so entrenched that the authorities even managed to lock up mentally ill Australian citizens, and even "deported" one back to the Philippines. Only when this happened, after 8 years, did things start to change. People have committed suicide.

I'm sure there are similar stories world wide.

As for these people, it is a crying shame, though I don't blame Thailand as much as other places. The burmese refuse to recognise them as citizens...which puts Thailand in a bind. To be sure, these guys shouldn't be locked up, and their treatment at the hands of the Navy was nothing short of murder.

But Thailand does suffer as the first real place of freedom for people from neighbouring countries and is probably concerned that 'letting them go' would have simply signalled to Burma to ship all of them here. You can be sure that he Burmese dictators would have driven them to the border until there was no one left.

Western countries could have done more as well, and could have quickly and quietly resettled these people who are refguess in their own country.

Edited August 27, 2009 by samran

[cmsally]

I think the article is putting a rascist spin on the huge worldwide problem of immigration and immigrants.

Not to disagree with the view there are rascist attitudes but it is trying to simplify the situation. These are people who are stateless and it is not wholly Thailand's problem that they are sitting in a detention camp. Throughout the world there are complex issues which lead to mass movement of people and it is difficult to place the blame at one point.

As a piece of journalism it is also rather sensationalistic, starting with the 2 deaths. As sad as it is to give up on living, at no point does it say it was the fault of the Thai authorities.

I'll go along with Samran in that there are similar situations throughout the world - are we going to place the blame for people getting killed crossing the border into US from Mexico or those camping out in Calais.

What makes the situation different?

[JR Texas]

I think the article is putting a rascist spin on the huge worldwide problem of immigration and immigrants.

Not to disagree with the view there are rascist attitudes but it is trying to simplify the situation. These are people who are stateless and it is not wholly Thailand's problem that they are sitting in a detention camp. Throughout the world there are complex issues which lead to mass movement of people and it is difficult to place the blame at one point.

As a piece of journalism it is also rather sensationalistic, starting with the 2 deaths. As sad as it is to give up on living, at no point does it say it was the fault of the Thai authorities.

I'll go along with Samran in that there are similar situations throughout the world - are we going to place the blame for people getting killed crossing the border into US from Mexico or those camping out in Calais.

What makes the situation different?

I loved the article........refreshing to see some TRUTH. These words were particularly interesting to me, especially since they came from a Thai citizen (who apparently would support the notion of xenophobia growing in Thailand):

It is not that we are inherently cruel. It is only that we are the products of racist nationalism which permeates every social institution in our society.

Yes, prejudice is human when we are still trapped in the "we/they" dichotomy driven by instinctive group preservation. But it is another matter when we let it grow into inhumanity to legitimise what is otherwise unacceptable cruelty.

We must rethink our racist nationalism.

[cmsally]

I think the article is putting a rascist spin on the huge worldwide problem of immigration and immigrants.

Not to disagree with the view there are rascist attitudes but it is trying to simplify the situation. These are people who are stateless and it is not wholly Thailand's problem that they are sitting in a detention camp. Throughout the world there are complex issues which lead to mass movement of people and it is difficult to place the blame at one point.

As a piece of journalism it is also rather sensationalistic, starting with the 2 deaths. As sad as it is to give up on living, at no point does it say it was the fault of the Thai authorities.

I'll go along with Samran in that there are similar situations throughout the world - are we going to place the blame for people getting killed crossing the border into US from Mexico or those camping out in Calais.

What makes the situation different?

I loved the article........refreshing to see some TRUTH. These words were particularly interesting to me, especially since they came from a Thai citizen (who apparently would support the notion of xenophobia growing in Thailand):

It is not that we are inherently cruel. It is only that we are the products of racist nationalism which permeates every social institution in our society.

Yes, prejudice is human when we are still trapped in the "we/they" dichotomy driven by instinctive group preservation. But it is another matter when we let it grow into inhumanity to legitimise what is otherwise unacceptable cruelty.

We must rethink our racist nationalism.

In which case K. Sanitsuda is maybe using the case as a bit of imagery to reflect a trend in Thai society.

That's an interesting possibility as I usually find her articles rather thought provoking but I found this one rather sensationalistic. Maybe you found the reason why!

[midasthailand]

Before we get all high and mightly, I'd remind people what these attitudes aren't merely confined to Thailand.

Australians were happy for the best part of 8 years to have boat people locked up on pacific islands or out in the middle of the desert, under detention. This went for the kids who were on those boats as well. Elections were won over who would lock up the most immigrants in the most god forsaken of places.

The 'bloody illegal migrants' attitude got so entrenched that the authorities even managed to lock up mentally ill Australian citizens, and even "deported" one back to the Philippines. Only when this happened, after 8 years, did things start to change. People have committed suicide.

I'm sure there are similar stories world wide.

As for these people, it is a crying shame, though I don't blame Thailand as much as other places. The burmese refuse to recognise them as citizens...which puts Thailand in a bind. To be sure, these guys shouldn't be locked up, and their treatment at the hands of the Navy was nothing short of murder.

But Thailand does suffer as the first real place of freedom for people from neighbouring countries and is probably concerned that 'letting them go' would have simply signalled to Burma to ship all of them here. You can be sure that he Burmese dictators would have driven them to the border until there was no one left.

Western countries could have done more as well, and could have quickly and quietly resettled these people who are refguess in their own country.

Samran,

whilst I agree with your sentiment that this sort of thing is happening in many places around the world, I think you a drawing a bit of a long bow comparing the plight of the Rohingas refugees in Thailand with groups of people from the middle East who had paid large sums of money to people smugglers in order to reach the promised land (otherwise known as the welfare state that is Australia). Have mistakes been made in Australian Immigration policy making? No doubt. Have people died due to appalling conditions in Nauru or Christmas Island? NO. Every country has the right to determine who can enter without the appropriate permissions and until those seeking entry on whatever grounds, can have the facts of their cases verified then they should be detained, but in humane conditions! Having visited the Immigration detention centre in Soi Suan Plu I can assure you that the conditions areless than humane.

The Rohingas as a people have been persecuted by the Military Junta in Burma, that is an undeniable fact. That they became the responsibility of Thailand after arrest is also undeniable. I don't see too many moslem countries rushing here to welcome them with open arms. In the meantime they should be kept in detention but in better conditions and with more dignity afforded them. Who pays? Isn't that what UNHCR gets the big bucks for?

[MrJohnson]

Before we get all high and mightly, I'd remind people what these attitudes aren't merely confined to Thailand.

Australians were happy for the best part of 8 years to have boat people locked up on pacific islands or out in the middle of the desert, under detention. This went for the kids who were on those boats as well. Elections were won over who would lock up the most immigrants in the most god forsaken of places.

The 'bloody illegal migrants' attitude got so entrenched that the authorities even managed to lock up mentally ill Australian citizens, and even "deported" one back to the Philippines. Only when this happened, after 8 years, did things start to change. People have committed suicide.

I'm sure there are similar stories world wide.

As for these people, it is a crying shame, though I don't blame Thailand as much as other places. The burmese refuse to recognise them as citizens...which puts Thailand in a bind. To be sure, these guys shouldn't be locked up, and their treatment at the hands of the Navy was nothing short of murder.

But Thailand does suffer as the first real place of freedom for people from neighbouring countries and is probably concerned that 'letting them go' would have simply signalled to Burma to ship all of them here. You can be sure that he Burmese dictators would have driven them to the border until there was no one left.

Western countries could have done more as well, and could have quickly and quietly resettled these people who are refguess in their own country.

all good points

[mrtoad]

Whatever way you put spin on it, the rights and wrongs - the Thai authorities still have a long way to go in the way they treat these people. Note that most of those rounded up were legal. <deleted>?

A decent article, that unfortunately wont be widely read in this country.

[samran]

Before we get all high and mightly, I'd remind people what these attitudes aren't merely confined to Thailand.

Australians were happy for the best part of 8 years to have boat people locked up on pacific islands or out in the middle of the desert, under detention. This went for the kids who were on those boats as well. Elections were won over who would lock up the most immigrants in the most god forsaken of places.

The 'bloody illegal migrants' attitude got so entrenched that the authorities even managed to lock up mentally ill Australian citizens, and even "deported" one back to the Philippines. Only when this happened, after 8 years, did things start to change. People have committed suicide.

I'm sure there are similar stories world wide.

As for these people, it is a crying shame, though I don't blame Thailand as much as other places. The burmese refuse to recognise them as citizens...which puts Thailand in a bind. To be sure, these guys shouldn't be locked up, and their treatment at the hands of the Navy was nothing short of murder.

But Thailand does suffer as the first real place of freedom for people from neighbouring countries and is probably concerned that 'letting them go' would have simply signalled to Burma to ship all of them here. You can be sure that he Burmese dictators would have driven them to the border until there was no one left.

Western countries could have done more as well, and could have quickly and quietly resettled these people who are refguess in their own country.

Samran,

whilst I agree with your sentiment that this sort of thing is happening in many places around the world, I think you a drawing a bit of a long bow comparing the plight of the Rohingas refugees in Thailand with groups of people from the middle East who had paid large sums of money to people smugglers in order to reach the promised land (otherwise known as the welfare state that is Australia). Have mistakes been made in Australian Immigration policy making? No doubt. Have people died due to appalling conditions in Nauru or Christmas Island? NO. Every country has the right to determine who can enter without the appropriate permissions and until those seeking entry on whatever grounds, can have the facts of their cases verified then they should be detained, but in humane conditions! Having visited the Immigration detention centre in Soi Suan Plu I can assure you that the conditions areless than humane.

The Rohingas as a people have been persecuted by the Military Junta in Burma, that is an undeniable fact. That they became the responsibility of Thailand after arrest is also undeniable. I don't see too many moslem countries rushing here to welcome them with open arms. In the meantime they should be kept in detention but in better conditions and with more dignity afforded them. Who pays? Isn't that what UNHCR gets the big bucks for?

Hi,

A very interesting debate could be had here...but I'm pretty snowed under at work. A couple of points:

Most, if not all, of the boat people to OZ were eventually found to be genuine refugees, either to OZ, NZ or elsewhere. Sure they paid, so did the Rohingas. Both are sad and unfortunate.

Apart from the 'Pacific Solution' there are quite a number more detention centres in OZ. You'd just have to google, but I clearly remember reading reports of abuses by the private company in charge of security, kids growing up with serious mental problems given their surroundings, numerous sucides, cases of self harm given the hopless state most found themselves in (wasn't this essentially the same as the Rohingas - they just gave up). Conditions have been identified in OZ as being pretty shitty, to be blunt.

Look, it is an all round crying shame. We are actually applying for our Burmese maid and her family, who are all Karen from Burma to move to Australia under a special humanitarian programme, given the level of discrimination they face back in Burma.

And while I'm the biggest kicker of the UN, I think the UNHCR get a pretty bad rap - they are stretched pretty thinly. They can class people as migrants, but I don't beleive they have much authority to 'house' refugees, as a country's soverignty trumps all. They can't exactly get these guys out of jail, but you are right, they could have made louder noises.

And as for Muslim solidarity? Ask a palastinian about that. their so-called brothers are happy to use them as a political football so long as it pisses of 'the west'. Who cares if they are effective prisoners....It is a fiction, a bit like Christian solidarity (none of which are something I advocate).

Edited August 27, 2009 by samran

[Travel2003]

Hello, thank you for the link to read this opinion article. More Thai people should be outraged as to what their government does to the unfortunate and poor looking to get a better life. There must be human rights accountability for all the people given the power of authority, but this is not always the case in the LOS.

I agree.

But I wonder who actually read the English (written) news papers here, and what is written in the Thai (written) news papers?

Do the majority of Thais know about this?

I seriously doubt it.

Too bad.