Massive Fee Hikes For Work Permits Mooted

[Garret]

I guess the legal fee's these visa/work permit companys charge will go up as well....just for the time I save I have allways used the same guy....This year he went to charge me an additional 2000b for his time saving help...I told him that if he did it I would no longer be giving him my buisness......

Rather than see how Thailand can generate income fairly for itself the powers that be try and squeeze the resources that they have left....Us

[Neeranam]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Maybe the government is dropping a hint there...

Don't all schools pay for the WP for teachers? When I was a teacher for over 10 years all of them did.

[CaptainNemo]

Basically Thailand is saying: We don't like foreigners, so we will fine you for being here.

Surely "Thailand" is saying we don't like skint/tight foreigners?

I remember when I first visited Akanay/SEAsia years ago, read and followed all the guide books about haggling and that as many do... it was only after spending more time there chatting with locals when I overhead local Khmers and Thais in places mumbling things along the lines of "stingy so and so farangs..."; it made me reflect upon why was I haggling much less well-off people than myself down to peanuts just because I could (i.e. they were so desperate to make the sale that they'd sigh and concede). It's not big or clever to force a skint subsistence farmer to knock his 5 baht profit off his bag of fruit just so you can big yourself up about your bargaining skills.

It seems to me to be fairly legitimate for the government to want to make life a little less comfy for those whose presence doesn't necessarily add much to the general financial well-being of the indigenous population; and indirectly attract more spendy farangs by changing the image of the type of farang who sojourns in the place?

I think too many people take the place for granted... it's still one of the best value places in the world to spend your time, warts and all.

(I'm far from loaded myself... perhaps that helps me empathise with "Somchai the plumber"?).

Edited September 1, 2009 by CaptainNemo

[pedro01]

Another 100% increase in WP fees will surely induce me to leave this country. I've lived and worked here for over 10 years, married to a Thai spouse for over six years, and have a baby on the way, and I still have to go and report myself every 90 days at the immigration office as if I'm some kind of fugitive. I have a PhD and have worked as a missionary as well as am working on a project with the government for the last 3 years. I've been supportive of my parents-in-law and have continuously financially contributed to their well-fare and to their spouses well-fare.

This has become too unfair and unjust. Not only will I leave this place for good, I will discourage all my other missionary friends from coming here as well because this has become too burdensome.

LMAO at the whining in this thread.

I think people have become too long in the tooth here in Thailand. I've been here 13 years and I think it's a hoot.

If you are settled here and have family & kids the idea of going through the pain and cost because of an additional few thousand baht a year is retarded. Get a grip for heaven's sake.

As for reporting to immigration every 90 days. You do not have to do that yourself. I haven't done that for years.

As for working as a missionary - is that really relevant to the conversation ? Or are you after an award ? Perhaps a free work permit for trying to turn happy Buddhists into miserable Mormons...

[Maestro]

Off-topic and nonsensical posts about excrements, monkeys, a bat, Kenny, Thailand Elite Card, use of English, Fred Flintstone, drug dealers, a post consisting only of quoted text, and the replies to them have been deleted.

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Maestro

[asiawatcher]

If an employers of an expat pays it - who cares? If an employee (expat) has to pay then it is simply a condition of being in Thailand - Tum Jai Pom/Khun. Why is this such a hassle? Teachers included, most schools will pay it so no issue. Mountains from mole hills.

I worked for Chiangmai University for four years, in three faculties simultaneously, and when the WP fees were increased in 2002, the university rejigged the lesson schedules from a cycle of 45 minute lessons per hour to single 1 hour 45 minute lessons per 2 hours. This did not mean an extra 15 minutes pay per 2 hours, because the pay was based on the clock hour regardless of the minutes taught. So they got 15 minutes extra work for no pay increase.

When the Visas increased from 500 Baht to 1900 Baht, they pulled in a non-English speaker from immigration to explain it all to us foreign ajarns (nice consideration that) and a lot of us asked if with the double increase, the university was going to either increase salaries or cover the fees. A lot of us got sacked for even raising the question.

Therefore Asiawatcher, if CMU, one of the five largest universities in the country (18,000 students per year last time I checked) will not pay the Visa and WP fees, what makes you think private schools will do so when every penny of profit goes into the owner's pocket?

Hmmm?

Dearest Foggy Bottom - time to change universities! lol

[stiggy]

Have to agree with the its not a big deal crowd on this !

We have 5 westerners on permits so yup it will cost us some money and obviously we dont like any rise on fixed costs.

A business we had in UK got charged 700 pounds to change 3 lightbulbs in a warehouse ! reason government legislation and HSE required scaffolding and a host of other BS safety measures , a forklift and ten mins would of done the job. Im happy to do business here as its not that crazy yet.

But seriously if you own a small business that cannot support this rise ,then you really should look at a different business plan.

[Tywais]

Therefore Asiawatcher, if CMU, one of the five largest universities in the country (18,000 students per year last time I checked) will not pay the Visa and WP fees, what makes you think private schools will do so when every penny of profit goes into the owner's pocket?

Guess you had a stingy department. I've been working at CMU for 15+ years and they have always paid both WP fees and immigration fees regardless of the increases. That goes for all the foreign colleagues I know also.

[edgarfriendly]

i think its a shame that some of the thickest people ive ever met are working in the teaching industry.

however, ive also noticed that the less that is actually given to the country in benefits , the higher the ex-pats salary is.

IE- if ur in the business of exploitation, ur welcomed and exploited.

If ur in the business of 'edumbacation' your really not wanted by those that make the rules, its that simple.

no money to be wasted = no value, unless ur willing to 'work' for shit money(exploited)

i think the educated locals are more at risk of being 'unwanted' than we'll ever genuinely be. cos were just scapegoats, the educated locals actually pose a threat to tyranny.

the 'united' expats, do not.

ef

ef

[loong]

Have to agree with the its not a big deal crowd on this !

We have 5 westerners on permits so yup it will cost us some money and obviously we dont like any rise on fixed costs.

A business we had in UK got charged 700 pounds to change 3 lightbulbs in a warehouse ! reason government legislation and HSE required scaffolding and a host of other BS safety measures , a forklift and ten mins would of done the job. Im happy to do business here as its not that crazy yet.

But seriously if you own a small business that cannot support this rise ,then you really should look at a different business plan.

Off topic, I know, but I have to agree with you re the HSE in the UK. I did a job in the UK that was closed down by the HSE because I was on a roof doing a half hour job without scaffolding or handrail. I would have been prosecuted if I had carried on. I asked the HSE officer if the scaffolders required scaffolding to protect them while they were erecting the scaffolding. He had no answer!

[delboygoeslarge]

In New Zealand they are not renewing work visas due to the recession and the unemployment rate (8%). so if your visa runs out and there is a Kiwi that can do the job then you are going home, like it or not. i guess being able to buy a renewal for a few thousand Baht isn't so bad - in comparison.

[cochran]

I don't think that raising this fee to 6k annually is too much, but...

I work for a large MNC and we have a high number of expats on payroll here. While this increase in and of itself is not monumental, it is an incremental increase for each person, all of whom are on full expat packages with the company. Many of us who are enjoying our lives here and would really like to stay on and make this a permanent home may be forced with some quite difficult choices. Our company will be pushing to strictly limit the number of expats in the region. Its not just because of this fee, but it all adds up over time.

I know we're not invaluable to life in Thailand. We're not going to solve this country's problems, just like we personally haven't solved all the issues in our various home countries before coming here. If we all went home tomorrow, Thailand would be just fine. All I'm saying is, I like it here and would like to stay, and it would be great if the bureaucracy could make it easier, and be more encouraging.

All in all, I challenge you to have the same quality of life in UK or USA for the same price you can do it here.

[bendshead]

The idea that the teacher should be paying work permit and visa fees is ridiculous, and if you're a teacher worth spit, you already know it's not difficult to get schools to pay permit and visas fees for you. Even the dregs, with some unity and backbone, can come together and get this paid for by their schools.

Unity, people.

[Einstein]

I'm still in KL to apply for a new Non-Immigrant B Visa, but they want to give me only a visa for three Months.

This is the second time already. First In Penang and now in KL. I have a one year work permit valid until 13 march 2010.

I cannot follow the law anymore. First you get only a work permit for three Months and you will get a one year Non-Immigrant B visa .

They changed the law beginning this year and they give you now one year work permit. This is not related to the visa anymore.

The counsellor told me that my work permit is only valid for 6 Months and that was not enough to give me a one year Non-Immigrant B. Are they getting insane?

I live already for 11 years in Thailand and I had never any problems with my visa neither with my work permit.

Sins my one year Non-Immigrant B visa expired in March 2009 , I get every time only 3 Months.

I told her, You know what! Give me a tourist visa for 2 Months and I go to make an extension for one Month . This visa cost me nothing, so what should I pay? And I renew my work permit when I'm back and take some vacation.

Eleven years in Thailand, work permit, pay taxes, 4 years own house, baby, married , Thai licenses, but they don't give any shit?

I get sick from Thai Government.

[MUYTHAI]

Bring on the "I can't believe it - I'm moving to another country" crowd again.

So what if it goes up to 6,000 baht, that's still only around £100.00. Is a £50.00 (3000.00) a year rise for the right to live and work legally in a country really enough to make you leave Thailand? I spend twice that on a good night out - if it bothers you that much then your in the wrong country to start with, get yourselves off to Somalia, it's cheaper than Thailand apparently...

Bring on the "look how much money I've got" crowd.

Oh, here he is! Didn't take long.

If you're spending 12k on a good night out in Thailand you've seriously lost your mind....and are being taken for a ride....

I can't help feeling you're being a little cynical here.

I don't think it matters if people can afford to pay it or if you're one of those who vent their frustration on this by saying their leaving. I think the key point here is that it is a raise and a significant one at that. If people don't push back then it will just go up again and again with little regard for the average Farang because "they can afford it" right!?.....these little digs do imho slowly erode Thailand's appeal, after all this is by no means the first dig at Frangs in last few months alone.

I do agree however that 12k a night out is a little keen, unless of course you went to Patpong, then I'm sure you could get fleeced for that in a matter of minutes.

Spending 12K on a night in Bangers IS NOT difficult, imported beer her is around 200 baht a pint, good meal in a good resturant with wine will set you back at least 5-10K for you and the missus, then there's the pre drinks, onto a club etc...

It's definately not something I do every night, but once a month or so it's nice to go high end and stop worrying about the cost of things and just enjoy the quality of what you are buying. Last night I went to a Thai restuarant and had dinner with friends, we had a seafood feast with lots of beer and the bill was just over 500 baht each. Had a cracking time, just as good as when you "go hi-so".

My point is that a potential 3000 baht increase is nothing in the scheme of things. Or if it is for the person reading this (it's not directed at anyone on this forum in particular), as has been said above it could be time to retrain into something that pays a little better. That is precisely what I did 10 years ago.

Tom.

You are being fleeced if you are paying 12,000 baht for a night out in Thailand. You are in Thailand. LMAO. Wow, you had a good time even when you did not go "Hi-So".

Incredible and very impressive you are.

[jc14all]

Desperate times usually causes desperate thinking which leads to desperate measures. Face it many foreigners working in Thailand made a desperate decision to leave their country to work in Thailand for a little more financial posture that relieved the pressure they were feeling in their own country's economy. The economic crunch is triggering a basic survival need in countries all over the world. Think this is crazy we ain't seen nothing yet. There is an old saying that rings true..."the two best places in the world are the place you're on your way to, and the place you just left."

Edited September 1, 2009 by jc14all

[Brewsta]

lets see:

they don't like us living here

we can't own land here

they really don't want us working here

and they'd just as soon tourists stay a few days but spend lots and lots of money

I need a hug...I'm not feeling much love right now

I've lived here for 10 years......wife,house, kids, land, etc......

and the only thing that appears constant is this perrennial whining by expats....... Whiners, pls leave and give it a rest....

so boring.......

B

[chameleon1977]

Bring on the "I can't believe it - I'm moving to another country" crowd again.

So what if it goes up to 6,000 baht, that's still only around £100.00. Is a £50.00 (3000.00) a year rise for the right to live and work legally in a country really enough to make you leave Thailand? I spend twice that on a good night out - if it bothers you that much then your in the wrong country to start with, get yourselves off to Somalia, it's cheaper than Thailand apparently...

Bring on the "look how much money I've got" crowd.

Oh, here he is! Didn't take long.

If you're spending 12k on a good night out in Thailand you've seriously lost your mind....and are being taken for a ride....

I can't help feeling you're being a little cynical here.

I don't think it matters if people can afford to pay it or if you're one of those who vent their frustration on this by saying their leaving. I think the key point here is that it is a raise and a significant one at that. If people don't push back then it will just go up again and again with little regard for the average Farang because "they can afford it" right!?.....these little digs do imho slowly erode Thailand's appeal, after all this is by no means the first dig at Frangs in last few months alone.

I do agree however that 12k a night out is a little keen, unless of course you went to Patpong, then I'm sure you could get fleeced for that in a matter of minutes.

Spending 12K on a night in Bangers IS NOT difficult, imported beer her is around 200 baht a pint, good meal in a good resturant with wine will set you back at least 5-10K for you and the missus, then there's the pre drinks, onto a club etc...

It's definately not something I do every night, but once a month or so it's nice to go high end and stop worrying about the cost of things and just enjoy the quality of what you are buying. Last night I went to a Thai restuarant and had dinner with friends, we had a seafood feast with lots of beer and the bill was just over 500 baht each. Had a cracking time, just as good as when you "go hi-so".

My point is that a potential 3000 baht increase is nothing in the scheme of things. Or if it is for the person reading this (it's not directed at anyone on this forum in particular), as has been said above it could be time to retrain into something that pays a little better. That is precisely what I did 10 years ago.

Tom.

When you mentioned the wine I was right with ya. I too like a decent bottle of Red and even in Tesco/Lotus or Big C this will set ya back let alone a decent restuarant. Not sure I'd be thirsty enough to pay 6k for a bottle though. Back on topic, I don't think the 3k increase is a lot but any increase should be resited if you ask me. Like one person said, it will only increase the number of people working the land of smile illegally and not paying taxes.

Edited September 1, 2009 by chameleon1977

[CaptainNemo]

GREAT! Go ahead and tell "them" what they want to hear. I love being here and love the Thai people. I am warmly received and treated well by almost every Thai I meet. HOWEVER, it is evident that the Yellow Shirts (euphemism for the 5% of those whose families have be in power for 100's of years and have everything), fear change. Exposure to Westerners bodes change. People that sit on the top of the heap already and don't want to share their pie usually do NOT want change. So, no, "they" don't like foreigners and would be happy if we all left. A cosmopolitan current adds color, cultural expansion and new ideas to society -- change. In case you haven't notice, the people ARE smiling, but THIS government does not like foreigners and has no interest in making life easy for them.

I thought most of the rich ones were Chinese immigrants anyway? I wonder whether it's a case of one generation of immigrants feeling threatened by another (seeing as though we're all in the sweeping generalisations phase of the thread! )

[wrecker]

Crocodile tears are shed by the expat community. A hike of 100% wow..... Any idea how much you have to pay in certain Western countries for the renewal of a permit. It is in the many of thousands Euros. The idea behind allowing people to work is that they posses a skill that is rare or valuable. 99% of the work permits are issued here to teachers and people in the entertaining business I suppose. I can't imagine that any expat who is making a 100,000 dollars or up are complaining.

[Dodobird]

The increased of wp fee will eventually pass on to the consumers. So who suffer most....Thais not farangs

[Maestro]

An off-topic post about "the Yellow Shirts" and modification of part of the quoted text has been deleted.

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Maestro

[brahmburgers]

For native English speakers who want to teach in Thailand - the Thai gov't should pay them Bt.10,000 annual incentive fee.

Thailand needs all the native English speaking English teachers it can get. Even a less-adept English teacher (whose native language is English) is better than a Thai person who teaches English.

Thailand is behind the curve when it comes to the average Thai's skill at speaking English. I've met several Burmese border touts dressed in rags who speak better English than Thai University English teachers I've conversed with. I jest not.

Granted, the work permit issue affects more than English teachers, but I'd venture that English teachers account for over half those affected.

Would a Belgian want to learn Thai from an Italian? I think not. She'd rather learn from a Thai, if one was available.

A decent handle of English is essential for nearly any young Thai who wants to progress in tomorrow's world, whether they choose education, science, politics, diplomacy, computer, tourism, manufacturing, .....you name it.

Upping the work permit fee is about the dumbest thing Thai bureaucrats can do. It effectively sends the message: "We're comfortable being third world with a fractured democracy, and even though we're majorly dependent on tourism and resident farang for outside revenue, we'd rather close our eyes and ears and face inward. THaksin stupidly declared, 'the UN is not my father.' Now Thai leaders take it one step further and declare, 'We no want together with progress. We ok be we same same. Where you go? You Mister, come visit short time, you to spend big money before leave you."

[farmer floyd]

This year Florida is 2 billion in the hole and the local police in my area Brookville are making speed traps all over. Waldo Fl is famous for this rated no 1 speed trap in USA by AAA.

I got a 331.00 ticket for speeding in school zone at 7:00 am no lights saying school at all, He said tell the judge, a friend just got a $190.00 for 11 mph over, these fines were 35.00 3 years ago. I got a turn on red ticket, in Pattaya cost me $6.00 LOVE Thailand. haha

I dont feel sorry for a 3000 baht increase to live and work in Thailand. Feel lucky you dont live

in Florida. cost $10,000.00 impact fee to just build a house 2000.00 more for permits. what does one cost in Thailand ?? USA is going down the drain, wait till they hear about Thailand, most people are stuck in debt or just not adventuresome. Keep up the fight. Be there in 3 months.

[Maestro]

An off-topic post about speeding fines and building permit fees in Florida, USA has been deleted.

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Maestro

[fred2007]

Bring on the "I can't believe it - I'm moving to another country" crowd again.

So what if it goes up to 6,000 baht, that's still only around £100.00. Is a £50.00 (3000.00) a year rise for the right to live and work legally in a country really enough to make you leave Thailand? I spend twice that on a good night out - if it bothers you that much then your in the wrong country to start with, get yourselves off to Somalia, it's cheaper than Thailand apparently...

Bring on the "look how much money I've got" crowd.

Oh, here he is! Didn't take long.

If you're spending 12k on a good night out in Thailand you've seriously lost your mind....and are being taken for a ride....

I agree How can you spend 12 k's in a day or so I work my bloody ass of for 20 k's a month not every body has a cushy job I work for thai wages

[ppmacready]

Bring on the "I can't believe it - I'm moving to another country" crowd again.

So what if it goes up to 6,000 baht, that's still only around £100.00. Is a £50.00 (3000.00) a year rise for the right to live and work legally in a country really enough to make you leave Thailand? I spend twice that on a good night out - if it bothers you that much then your in the wrong country to start with, get yourselves off to Somalia, it's cheaper than Thailand apparently...

Bring on the "look how much money I've got" crowd.

Oh, here he is! Didn't take long.

If you're spending 12k on a good night out in Thailand you've seriously lost your mind....and are being taken for a ride....

But what a wonderful ride!

[JR Texas]

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

yes, typical government behaviour (everywhere). First they figure out expenses and set taxes accordingly. Never the other way around.

Since first joinng this Web site I have been amazed at just how much everyone moans. And then moans more again and again. To many of you are sounding so miserable and fed up here. Price Hikes for Work Permits. Can't live well as a teacher etc etc. Well may I suggest if the grass is so green elsewhere go, perhaps just go home to your own Country. Help your fellow Country men. Especially perhaps the ones who did not get a chance to travel. So go, because Thailand offers you one fabulous thing, there is no requirement for an exis visa. I suggest all you unhappy people hurry up to the airport and make sure you book a flight before all the others in the mass exodus. But if you decide to stay on stop moaning.

I agree, everyone that doesn't like Thailand - JUST GO HOME!!!!!

Surprised no one thought of that idea before.

JUST GO HOME...........that actually might make a good slogan for TAT.

[Maestro]

A post with modification of the format of part of the quoted text has been deleted for being in violation of forum rule No. 29. Everybody, please don't do this.

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Maestro

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted for replying to the person not the issue. Please play the ball, not the person and keep it civil in your comments. There is no need to get personal.