Massive Fee Hikes For Work Permits Mooted

[Shazza]

Mmmmmm.... if it goes to 6,000 baht then mine will cost me two week's pay and it's 300 NZ dollars... our money's not so great... and there are heaps of people here who need work permits to do voluntary work so that's pretty hard on them.... sad...

[fred2007]

Bring on the "I can't believe it - I'm moving to another country" crowd again.

So what if it goes up to 6,000 baht, that's still only around £100.00. Is a £50.00 (3000.00) a year rise for the right to live and work legally in a country really enough to make you leave Thailand? I spend twice that on a good night out - if it bothers you that much then your in the wrong country to start with, get yourselves off to Somalia, it's cheaper than Thailand apparently...

Bring on the "look how much money I've got" crowd.

Oh, here he is! Didn't take long.

If you're spending 12k on a good night out in Thailand you've seriously lost your mind....and are being taken for a ride....

I agree How can you spend 12 k's in a day or so I work my bloody ass of for 20 k's a month not every body has a cushy job I work for thai wages

Er - get a better job? And don't begrudge others what they have when you have no idea what they had to do to get it.

So I have no Idea? I worked all my life had a factory and then moved here for family reasons

and I lost most of it if not all and I still work now. I am getting sick and tired of you wanna be thais putting other people down just wait for your turn and if you still on TV.com let me know how you are surviving

[Footloose1949]

Lets see:

They don't like us living here

We can't own land here

They really don't want us working here

They'd just as soon tourists stay a few days but spend lots and lots of money

So what about seeing things the other way round ....?

Don't want/need Farangs retiring here, who can't afford to do so in their own country and perceive Thailand as a cheap retirement option.

Farangs want housing, that the vast majority of Thai's can't afford.

Farang companies want to send and spend any profits they make outside the country, and just see (Like Nike etc!) Thailand as a source of cheap labour, and a way of boosting their parent companies profits.

If the US and European economies were the same as Thailand's, and Thailand had theirs, the US would act the same way that the Thai government does.

We Farangs (for I am one!) want all the benefits of our developed nations in Thailand, but don't want the expense that goes with it. In short, many Farangs are the 'cheapskates' that sometimes we overhear Thais suggesting we are!!!

[pkspeaker]

Student Loans! Do you know how much US T-bills Thailand buys every year? either do I but it's ALOT; The US borrows money from Thailand, this developing country is lending the USA money even though countries like this and China are very concerned about the reliability of this investment; they are helping the US to sustain it's standard of living against their better judgment.

Personally, I think the workpermits here should be atleast 10,000B a year; the purpose of this is to encourage employers to hire Thai people, I see many Thai people here pushing carts or working in very low paying jobs like 7,000 or 5,000B a month; even less .. Thai people can be educated enough to do most of the jobs that foreigners here do, many companies here hire foreigners just to hire foreigners when they should be helping Thai people with upward mobility in the standard of living, higher standard of living means better consumer base and a stronger economy.. particularly in tech jobs; in any Thai rural village there will be some naturally strong math students--anyone of those people can be trained in programing or hi-tech work-but the government needs to help get the education to the poor people.

And I would do anything to stay here in Thailand and not have to go back to crappy America, I see many people here posting how lousy it's getting over there.. even if the WP fee is 10,000B it's still way cheaper to live here and you should be thrilled that you even have a WP.. the housing and transportation in the US is expensive and poor, for what i pay here for a gorgeous place I would live in a slum in California - it's fair weather makes that even worse and rents go through the roof as many Americans want to live there but places like Tuscon arizona ain't no picnic either, cheaper but lower paying jobs..

I think for those in nice expat jobs, working for a big company, this means squat. For those in poorer paid professions, such as teaching, it could be a problem.

Regardless, it is a cynical tax raising opportunity by a government whose finances are under strain.

Well, as an American Citizen, whose taxes went to pay for the "forgiven loans" of Thai students during the 1997 financial crisis, I sorta expected that we Americans would get lots of freebies in exchange if we had a financial crisis, like 16% unemployment and 40,000,000 people on food stamps.

Needless to say, I am disappointed.

Also, these roads they are building everywhere, are they free? They are far superior to the USA. Anybody been to Esarn lately?

What about the retrofitting of the power lines and those wonderful high tech power poles that N. America has never conceived. Seriously superior stuff ! And, I bet it's not free either.

I think this shows how much they are losing in payoffs and cheating and "free" "fruit to be peeled" money.

Personally, I wish you guys would stop using that word "farang" it upsets me. Why should a fruit to be peeled, call himself a fruit to be peeled? It cannot mean a westerner (living in the western part of the united states), or a stretched derivation "from the united states," nor can it mean "caucasia" . a mythical land inclusive of Eastern China, nor can it mean a person with curly hair. So what can it mean except "fruit to be peeled?" G. U. A. V. A.

Taxes are a good thing, that is what Hillary and The one like, and raising taxes will make Hillary and The one proud of them.

[diks]

You are being fleeced if you are paying 12,000 baht for a night out in Thailand. You are in Thailand. LMAO. Wow, you had a good time even when you did not go "Hi-So".

Incredible and very impressive you are.

My point simply was that I enjoy both expensive and inexpensive entertainment. I'm not quite sure where your sarcasm is coming from, you sound like a very bitter kind of guy.

Also, it depends on your definination of getting fleeced. If you think that two people going to one of the top restuarants in Asia (possibly in the World) and spending 12K including pre drinks a good couple of hours at a quality club afterwards is expensive, then that's your opinion. However, your sarcasm tells me that you probably don't have the ability to do so. In reality spending 10-15K on a high end night out in one of Asia's capitol cities is still roughly half what it would cost you in Europe for this level of quality, and is in many ways more enjoyable.

And before you say "I don't need to spend that much to have a good time", that is exacly what I was saying above.

Tom.

Hmm, have not managed to spend that much here in CM, Thailand but have not had any problem in NA or Europe. And often times the meals were better here.

[NHJ]

work permit is very expensive in thailand, it's 250 baht in belgium...

[Mercury]

Does anyone remember the massive increase in fees for residency ? Wasn't that something like an increase from 6,000 to 190,000 or thereabouts ? My bottom figures could be wrong for sure but I'd appreciate some correction. However, if someone raised work permit fees to say 50,000 then it would be considerable, particularly for the educational fraternity.

[stao]

I pay for my own work permit and i wasnt really happy shelling out 3000. If i have to shell out 7 or 10,000 thats almost a weeks salary.

Thailand does all it can to make life difficult for foreigners to live here, buy a home and stay here.

Winging or not, Im going to Vietnam. The visa thing there is certainly more difficult, but otherwise they are doing everything they can to get foreigners and their money to come and stay.

When I first came to Thailand (1968) it was a totally different place. I went through SCUBA training in Pattaya (US Army) and remember Pattaya as have 2 bamboo bars on either side of the "Spirit Tree" where walking street is now, a US Military Special Services R & R camp at the North end of the beach where the fancy hotel is now and... Not much else in between.

It was really cheap :-) As I remember a plate of fried rice, a couple of BBQed shrimp and a beer Sing was only about 35 Baht and... The "natural resource" of Pattaya was about 25 Baht for a quickee...

My how things change.

[barry]

lets see:

they don't like us living here

we can't own land here

they really don't want us working here

and they'd just as soon tourists stay a few days but spend lots and lots of money

I need a hug...I'm not feeling much love right now

I've lived here for 10 years......wife,house, kids, land, etc......

and the only thing that appears constant is this perrennial whining by expats....... Whiners, pls leave and give it a rest....

so boring.......

B

I still need a hug

[Geekfreaklover]

I still think that if you don't like it just go home.

[SomchaiCNX]

I'm still in KL to apply for a new Non-Immigrant B Visa, but they want to give me only a visa for three Months.

This is the second time already. First In Penang and now in KL. I have a one year work permit valid until 13 march 2010.

I cannot follow the law anymore. First you get only a work permit for three Months and you will get a one year Non-Immigrant B visa .

They changed the law beginning this year and they give you now one year work permit. This is not related to the visa anymore.

The counsellor told me that my work permit is only valid for 6 Months and that was not enough to give me a one year Non-Immigrant B. Are they getting insane?

I live already for 11 years in Thailand and I had never any problems with my visa neither with my work permit.

Sins my one year Non-Immigrant B visa expired in March 2009 , I get every time only 3 Months.

I told her, You know what! Give me a tourist visa for 2 Months and I go to make an extension for one Month . This visa cost me nothing, so what should I pay? And I renew my work permit when I'm back and take some vacation.

Eleven years in Thailand, work permit, pay taxes, 4 years own house, baby, married , Thai licenses, but they don't give any shit?

I get sick from Thai Government.

They changed it a couple years ago.

A solution for you is quite simple and available.(IMHO)

You should ask for a Non-Immigrant O (3 months is ok) (Marriage to a Thai)

Before the end of the 3-months you will request a 1 year extension at the immigration near you.

400.000 baht in your own account (for the last 3 months) or all the paperwork from your WP that you make more than 400.000 baht a year. (Prepare both)

If you are apply with a B, your 1-year visa will expire when your WP is not valid anymore or you lose your job. But if you apply for a 1-year extension with an O you can use your income from your workpermit at the immigration and you will also be able to stay if your WP is not valid anymore.

Even with a 3 month Non-Immigrant B you can apply for a 01 year extension at your local immigration office, no need to leave the country to get another visa.

As mentoned above I would go for the Non-Immigrant O.

If you have to leave the country arrange a re-entry permit or you will lose your 1 year extension.

If you stay in the country don't forget to go to the immigration every 90 days.

That's all.

[barry]

Lets see:

They don't like us living here

We can't own land here

They really don't want us working here

They'd just as soon tourists stay a few days but spend lots and lots of money

So what about seeing things the other way round ....?

Don't want/need Farangs retiring here, who can't afford to do so in their own country and perceive Thailand as a cheap retirement option.

Farangs want housing, that the vast majority of Thai's can't afford.

Farang companies want to send and spend any profits they make outside the country, and just see (Like Nike etc!) Thailand as a source of cheap labour, and a way of boosting their parent companies profits.

If the US and European economies were the same as Thailand's, and Thailand had theirs, the US would act the same way that the Thai government

We Farangs (for I am one!) want all the benefits of our developed nations in Thailand, but don't want the expense that goes with it. In short, many Farangs are the 'cheapskates' that sometimes we overhear Thais suggesting we are!!!

If they don't start treating us better, I'm going to hold my breath

[barry]

I still think that if you don't like it just go home.

This is home

[JatujakShopper]

lets see:

they don't like us living here

we can't own land here

they really don't want us working here

and they'd just as soon tourists stay a few days but spend lots and lots of money

I need a hug...I'm not feeling much love right now

*Gives barry a hug* (In a chaste and fraternal sort of way). I feel your pain, brother.

[Mercury]

Also, hiking any fees is not going to get any more illegal workers to register and pay taxes is it ? The WP fees themselves are not the real issue but rather the associated fees. Running a company in the UK for one year costs the equivalent of about 3 hours pay on minimum wage (approx £20 being 3 * 6ph). The equivalent in Thailand is far far greater than Bt100 or less the same 3 hour equivalent (Bt200 per day / 8 hours * 3).

If they want people to register and pay taxes, make it affordable to the small businessman. Are there more "illegals" than WPs ?

[jasreeve17]

Posters #135 and #138 have some 'unusual' veiws... Thailand does not give work permits out willy nilly, thus the idea that 'unwanted foreign devils' are given work permits to rape the poor people of Thailand is laughable.

*1: As for training up a Thai that currently earns 5,000 to 8,000 baht p/m to perform the same job at the same level as a foreign work permit holder (I smell a young idealist)... in an ideal world with the money spent on education then maybe that'd be a realistic goal within a few decades, but it's far from the reality today.

At the university I work for we employ 3 foreigners. The university pays for their work permit and visa (around 7,000 baht p/y), but in our little faculty that's quite an expense which the board have previously considered stopping. I spoke today to a Thai colleague who was worried that the faculty couldn't afford to pay for a heavily increased visa and work permit; they'd need to ask the teachers to pay. So, the conversation will go:

"Hello, prospective employee, we'd like you to start on Monday. Your first duty is to fork out 15,000 baht (or whatever the new costs will be) to the ministry of employment and immigration office... Hold on, where are you going?"

"I'm off to work at the private Uni who will pay for my work permit. Bye." - Oh, aren't we back to *1?

I'd also like to comment on some of the posters who are saying things like: If you can't pay it then go home. I spend 12,000 baht in an evening... These comments are plain silly and immature. I too (like many folk on this forum) used to work out of London with a massive salary; spending thousands on a night meant nothing to my cash flow. But, these increased prices are for folk with work permits in Thailand who fall broadly into a few categories:

1) Expat jobs with non-Thai companies - the companies will pay for the visas, it's a non-issue.

2) People working for themself - it's a relatively small expense, it's close to a non-issue.

3) Skilled workers who are vital to Thailand's development and earn a large salary - it's a non-issue and a small group.

4) Skilled workers who are vital to Thailand's development, but aren't on big salaries - a significant problem and a significantly sized group.

Group 4 will suffer the most which will hinder the very development that posters #135 and #138 are dreaming of.

[prighas]

Another 100% increase in WP fees will surely induce me to leave this country. I've lived and worked here for over 10 years, married to a Thai spouse for over six years, and have a baby on the way, and I still have to go and report myself every 90 days at the immigration office as if I'm some kind of fugitive. I have a PhD and have worked as a missionary as well as am working on a project with the government for the last 3 years. I've been supportive of my parents-in-law and have continuously financially contributed to their well-fare and to their spouses well-fare.

This has become too unfair and unjust. Not only will I leave this place for good, I will discourage all my other missionary friends from coming here as well because this has become too burdensome.

What about your family?

My wife has not even lived a whole year in my country and I have already helped her acquire a passport of my same nationality. We will then have to move out altogether. I've been thinking about this for quite some time and every time the Thai government does something to make it even harder for me to stay here, my urge to leave this place grows stronger.

[Geekfreaklover]

I still think that if you don't like it just go home.

This is home

It was written in jest. Yet I agree.

My work permit expires in December and I doubt I will be renewing it.

Christmas in England sounds rather nice. Turkey, roaring fire and a nice bottle of red wine.

[jasreeve17]

I still think that if you don't like it just go home.

This is home

It was written in jest. Yet I agree.

My work permit expires in December and I doubt I will be renewing it.

Christmas in England sounds rather nice. Turkey, roaring fire and a nice bottle of red wine.

Yum; Turkey, roast potatoes and Guiness cold.

BTW; recent changes inthow the work permit links to the visa are confusing me too...

Edited September 1, 2009 by jasreeve17

[cmdream]

It wouldn't surprise me if they started auctions for citizenship soon.

We have to admit the Thais are quite smart when it comes to these things. They know that the 'if you don't like it go home card' can be played at anytime. How long before the bluff is called? -The way I see it is that they have the expat situation well under control. Bless em.

Keen observation, spot on. When you've got them by the short hairs etc.

[prighas]

Another 100% increase in WP fees will surely induce me to leave this country. I've lived and worked here for over 10 years, married to a Thai spouse for over six years, and have a baby on the way, and I still have to go and report myself every 90 days at the immigration office as if I'm some kind of fugitive. I have a PhD and have worked as a missionary as well as am working on a project with the government for the last 3 years. I've been supportive of my parents-in-law and have continuously financially contributed to their well-fare and to their spouses well-fare.

This has become too unfair and unjust. Not only will I leave this place for good, I will discourage all my other missionary friends from coming here as well because this has become too burdensome.

LMAO at the whining in this thread.

I think people have become too long in the tooth here in Thailand. I've been here 13 years and I think it's a hoot.

If you are settled here and have family & kids the idea of going through the pain and cost because of an additional few thousand baht a year is retarded. Get a grip for heaven's sake.

As for reporting to immigration every 90 days. You do not have to do that yourself. I haven't done that for years.

As for working as a missionary - is that really relevant to the conversation ? Or are you after an award ? Perhaps a free work permit for trying to turn happy Buddhists into miserable Mormons...

First, I do not expect any award for working as a missionary. If I had, I would not have come to Thailand in the first place. It was my own choice. I only think the immigration office should consider applications for stay in Thailand on a case by case basis. I'm not a Mormon by the way - so I don't know how you arrived at this conclusion.

Second, if you have a representative at your company who can declare your address in Thailand every 90 days, I don't. Any advice for how I can process this in other ways is appreciated.

Third, a few additional thousand baht for our family is really worth additional effort. Perhaps it's not for you so please do not be critical.

Lastly, I wrote this reply because I just wanted to express how I thought given that might make me feel better. So please do not accuse others negatively.

[rexall]

I still think that if you don't like it just go home.

Tue 1 Sep 09, 8:10 pm

These frequent "Thailand, love it or leave it!" type comments are irrational. I have lived in Hawaii and five Asian countries, China three times, Singapore twice, and Thailand for the past ten years. I have visited several more countries. I have NEVER been in a place that I loved 100%, including my home country, the U.S. I seriously doubt that there is any place that I would or could love absolutely everything about unconditionally.

Sorry!!! I guess I will just have to stay here and continue to feel free to express an opinion about things if I want to.

Aloha,

Rex

[wilsongbrown]

It wouldn't surprise me if they started auctions for citizenship soon.

We have to admit the Thais are quite smart when it comes to these things. They know that the 'if you don't like it go home card' can be played at anytime. How long before the bluff is called? -The way I see it is that they have the expat situation well under control. Bless em.

Lol - couldn't agree more. This country is dirt cheap to live in compared to most other countries where the members of this forum used to live - yes things are going up here and to me that's not a bad thing as long as it doesn't hurt the local population.

I love this country and nearly all that sail with her, when I see double pricing it makes me laugh not angry, they know that in general we have more money than them and act appropiately. Just like in the UK if your on benefits you pay less for certain things like prescriptions, one price does not fit every person/situation.

Your ignorance is breathtaking. What on earth are you talking about 'things going up isn't bad as long as it doesn't hurt the local population'?! A kilo of rice doubling overnight will effect everyone, or do the Thais get to pay the same price as before? As to your 'laughing at double pricing', and that 'in general we have more money than them', you're obviously impervious to any notion of justice and have never been to Phuket.

And haha, oh, forgive me, 'Just like in the UK if your (sic) on benefits you pay less for certain things like prescriptions'. So it's okay if you're sick then, but not if you're hungry, cold, making do with threadbare clothing and your sole entertainment is a night in front of 'the telly' with a bottle of White Lightning.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Lite Beer
Flame and profanity deleted. Lite Beer.

[barry]

Thanks for the "hug"

Let us never forget, one and all, that this is a FORUM

disagreements are necessary...without dissent there would be no reason to have this outlet

[MaiChai]

I think the point about employing a foreigner rather than a local is that the foreigner has some expertise that a company wants that is difficult to find in a local. If they increase the price, then companies will seriously think about whether they want to employ a foreigner or local. The local skill level is now much higher than it was 5 or 10 years ago so some companies may be able to use a local rather than foreigner. I think this is what this is about. Now obviously its unfair to the English teachers, and thus I suspect the schools will need to pass the cost on to their customers. For those who are using it as a loophole to do something else, like being a director of a company that owns a house, well you obviously aint a real expat, so I guess you will need to pay more every year.

For me I gave up working in Asia. The salary is so low that its not worth it (unless you can get an expat package). I am quite happy sitting around entertaining myself for part of the year, while the other part of the year I return to my home country and work. I like the balance, remain a citizen in my home country, and am not trying to kid myself that I am a citizen here (which the Thai government makes very clear I am not). Alot of foreigners have failed making business here; for the few that have succeeded, I take my hat off to you.

[Geekfreaklover]

I still think that if you don't like it just go home.

Tue 1 Sep 09, 8:10 pm

These frequent "Thailand, love it or leave it!" type comments are irrational. I have lived in Hawaii and five Asian countries, China three times, Singapore twice, and Thailand for the past ten years. I have visited several more countries. I have NEVER been in a place that I loved 100%, including my home country, the U.S. I seriously doubt that there is any place that I would or could love absolutely everything about unconditionally.

Sorry!!! I guess I will just have to stay here and continue to feel free to express an opinion about things if I want to.

Aloha,

Rex

Rex,

Is it fair to say that the majority of the 'love it or leave it' brigade have either just discovered the kingdom with rosy tints on or/and on a pension from their motherland, thus being quite-happy-thank-you-very-much-whats-a-work-permit?-you-mean-farang-people-actually-work-in-Thailand- brigade?

For the rest of us, it is really tough making a living in the current economic climate. And a hike in work permit application prices could, in my situation, result in seven Thais losing their jobs.

It's not the price hike, it's the message that it puts across.

GFL.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[plaaduk]

This is another in what has become a long string of actions by this government to encourage foreigners to leave. Visas are more difficult, working permits are more carefully monitored, fees have gone up, and so on. It seems to me to be a fairly clear attempt to minimize interference to this governments increasingly strong-armed political operations. They have only to learn from the neighbors to the east, north and west, that one way to deal with 'meddlesome' foreigners and all their shouting about justice, democracy and human rights, is to just rid the country of them.

The idea that Thailand is a Democracy has always been laughable, but now any pretense is gone. This current government ignored the constitution (as it stood), took over the government by force, outlawed the opposition, outlawed media that prints unflattering portraits, and forbids public assembly of opposition groups. Sounds to me like the classic pattern of totalitarian regimes everywhere. When are those elections coming? Ha.

As for investment, they have clearly thrown their lot in with the Chinese and not the west. I suppose I don't blame them. The U. S. is not going to defend Thailand or even look out for its interests. America is waist deep in its own problems and in any case, always looks toward Europe rather than Asia. They will regret that, but try to tell that to anyone in America.

When the economy is bad, and jobs are hard to come by,the Government has to think of its citizens first.If foreigners possess skills that the locals do not have,such foreigners will surely be retained.If at all there is an increase in work permit fees,the

company employing them or bringing them in ,would absorb that increase.That is standard operating procedure for all governments.

A casual survey in Chiangmai would show that foreigners are operating cybercafes,

selling books in second hand book shops,and probably some other small businesses

which Thais can do too. Can you blame the Government from restricting employment of foreigners to safeguard the interest of the natives? After all these foreigners came in as tourists and stayed on.

Even in the USA or Europe, Asians do work which the natives do not want to do!If at all they wish to work there legally they would have to acquire official approval and obtain the required visa before they can enter the country!They do not rant and rave that YSA or Europe is not democratic.They understand the requirements of the law.

[AleG]

Lets see:

They don't like us living here

We can't own land here

They really don't want us working here

They'd just as soon tourists stay a few days but spend lots and lots of money

So what about seeing things the other way round ....?

Don't want/need Farangs retiring here, who can't afford to do so in their own country and perceive Thailand as a cheap retirement option.

Farangs want housing, that the vast majority of Thai's can't afford.

Farang companies want to send and spend any profits they make outside the country, and just see (Like Nike etc!) Thailand as a source of cheap labour, and a way of boosting their parent companies profits.

If the US and European economies were the same as Thailand's, and Thailand had theirs, the US would act the same way that the Thai government does.

We Farangs (for I am one!) want all the benefits of our developed nations in Thailand, but don't want the expense that goes with it. In short, many Farangs are the 'cheapskates' that sometimes we overhear Thais suggesting we are!!!

That's a big brush you have there, some of us actually bring money into the country with our work.

[PeaceBlondie]

For retirees, it's a moot point.

[Dakhar]

Thailand is a location with a very screwed up infrastructure, a place where I would venture to say most of it's citizens do not pay taxes. So Thialand taxes the holly mess out of any venue that they have a semi decent documentation/structure and control over.

Example, customs.... Taxing items comming in to the country is fairly easy to do, so they go full bore after that.... easy money.

Then you have the work permits, highly documented, the system & structure is already there.... easily taxed....

So "POOF" they raise the tax. Besides, what is "whitey" going to do about it.... Vote?

Cazy place this land is