Karoke VCDs As A Learning Tool?

[desi]

It might increase literacy, though. (Thailand claims a literacy rate in the high 90s, but I think they have a low standard of what constitutes literacy. Functional literacy and reading comprehension, must be much, much lower.)

That's what I was thinking. And I also don't believe the high 90's. Not from what I've seen personally (I'm always bugging someone with Thai script).

Even if I remember the last few words I had been reading, it can be difficult to quickly find my place in a large piece of text, and jump back in. (Although since I have a visual memory, often I will remember what area on the physical page I had been looking at, which helps.) I do think that the lack of word spaces, and the lack of sentence boundary markers (like the full stop in English), definitely contribute to this difficulty.

I wonder if Thais mention the same problem, as they must be bothered by it too? When I read an English book I can quickly find wherever I left off. Not so with Thai.

But I don't believe I can chunk whole phrases like in English. And I also still find that the surest way for me to avoid getting tripped up or lost is to read aloud, whether truly aloud or simply a mumble under my breath. It's just easier for me that way.

I'm way behind you so not only do I read aloud, but there are times when I run my fingers along the text to keep my place.

Being able to chunk (in my opinion) is a major plus for all readers. Especially poor readers. So Thai readers could benefit.

[philo]

Thai uses gaps as boundary markers.

Yes and no. Gaps do mark sentence boundaries, but they also mark many other things, so there's no ambiguous sentence boundary. Indeed, there's no exact equivalent to the English sentence. Gaps mark the same things that would be marked by the English full stop, comma, semicolon, dash, and so forth. On top of that, gaps are also placed around proper names and other special use words. Gaps are also conventionally placed after the symbols ฯ and ๆ, even in mid-sentence (though usage is very inconsistent on this point). Yet another thing to make it hard to know when the sentences really begin and end.

Was I the only one who read desi's link Spacing in the Thai Language?

[DavidHouston]

Thai uses gaps as boundary markers.

Yes and no. Gaps do mark sentence boundaries, but they also mark many other things, so there's no ambiguous sentence boundary. Indeed, there's no exact equivalent to the English sentence. Gaps mark the same things that would be marked by the English full stop, comma, semicolon, dash, and so forth. On top of that, gaps are also placed around proper names and other special use words. Gaps are also conventionally placed after the symbols ฯ and ๆ, even in mid-sentence (though usage is very inconsistent on this point). Yet another thing to make it hard to know when the sentences really begin and end.

Was I the only one who read desi's link Spacing in the Thai Language?

Philo,

You might also wish to download and read the original authoritative source for Bryan's article:

http://www.royin.go.th/th/profile/index.ph...;SystemMenuIDS=

Edited September 5, 2009 by DavidHouston

[philo]

Thanks, DH, but this one too heavy for me. I am just a dilletante who once had romantic thoughts about going 'native' here.

Whe it gets serious, I give up ...

[Rikker]

Richard W, I know this is getting too esoteric for most, but I wanted to correct my earlier incorrect statement. angkhandiao (ฯ) appears in various forms in the Sukhothai inscriptions, but only the single ฯ is found more than a time or two:

ฯะะะ

ฯะ

ฯ๐ฯ

ฯ ฯ ฯ

ฯ

These range from the late 14th century to the end of the Sukhothai period. The majority of Sukhothai inscriptions do not appear to use these symbols, however (based on the transcriptions I have).

khomut appears only once that I've found in the Sukhothai corpus, in a mixed Khmer/Thai inscription dating from 1525.

I still have no idea when they fell *out* of use, either.

Okay, sorry about that sidetrack.

[SoftWater]

From the very highest level of learning to the lowest - my son's first reader at อนุบาล ๑ starts with

อา พา ตา มา นา

and ends with

อาพาตามานา

I dont' know what, if anything can be concluded from that, but just to answer the question raised earlier about the modern school books.

Personally, and I hate to be a spoiler here - I know most of you are far more proficient and experienced readers of Thai than I am - I don't find the lack of spacing at all an issue (at least not consciously). I enjoy the exotic difference of reading Thai not only in its extremely aesthetically-pleasing script but also in the fact that it is (mostly) spaceless.

What does irritate me is being corrected by my Thai teacher for using spacing inappropriately in writing. Either sometimes she would correct me for using a space where I shouldn't, or for not using one when I should. I never did suss out what, if any, rule I was supposed to apply. The best I could do was to notice that certain patterns often had spacing such as the word คือ always appeared with a space on either side in our course texts as did เช่น and เป็ืนต้น. The relative pronoun ซ่ึง always had a space before but not afterwards , and of course the abbreviator and repeater symbols as mentioned above (sorry, forgot their formal Thai names) have a space after but not before. I'm sure there were others, but they slip my mind at the minute.

Edited September 5, 2009 by SoftWater