Thai Father Farang Mother Child Custody Rights

[msnok]

Hi,

I have recently split with the Father of my baby. I am an Australian and he has returned home to Thailand, being a Thai National. He was not present at the birth and has not co-signed the birth Certificate so is not included on the Australian certificate as the Father. The birth is not registered in Thailand.

Though he was absent it was the only way as he does not have the financial means to support himself in Australia. Once he calms down from the relationship break up I think that he would very much like to meet his baby. This would only be possible with my co-operation by making the trip there as he would otherwise need funding from me and guarantee for a visa. Having already had a bad experience here I don't think he would be comfortable being so reliant on me to travel here again, not that I ever left him stranded though his fear are understandable.

I am wandering though I think it unlikely what would be the dangers for me if I took the baby there of losing my child in a Thai child custody case. Or what would be my rights and obligations under Thai family law. Though he is not on the birth certificate of course it would be possible to prove that he is the father. I absolutely don't want to deny this and would by all means if it were possible have loved for him to co-sign the certificate. Though now I just need to know legal implications for worse case senario. I only want what is best for everyone but I need to also understand what would just be plane stupid in my attempts to achieve this.

[aussiebebe]

Welcome to Thai Visa Forum, sorry to hear about your situation.

If I've correctly understood your post, you have nothing to fear or be remotely worried about when bringing your baby to visit their father in Thailand. Your child has an Australian Birth Certificate, not a Thai one; your baby is yours, Australian, and there is no danger of any custody battle ensuing.

I'm sure any visit would be positive and warmly embraced by your baby's father and family over here. As you know your former partner the best; it's purely your decision about visiting, and up to you to consider what might transpire when you arrive. Put it this way, for all anyone knows, your ex may get blind-drunk and kidnap your baby in a fit of rage, but you alone are the only person to decide the possibility of that. Absolutely no need to get worried about a 'worst-case' senario, as you put it. Best of luck.

[Mario2008]

You were not married and he is not on the birth certificate. If he want to atain fathership over the child he will have to petition the Australian court. I doubt he can do that in Thailand, as the child was born in Australia. But even if he could, that would take some time.

If it is established that he is the father, which shouldn't be too difficult, than the seperate question arises about if he can get custodial rights over the child. In any Australian court that will be unlikely, since you are not living togehter and he isn't even in the country. Since the child is not living in Thailand, a doubt the Thai courts will get involved. But if they do, they are not biased and will take the intrest of the child as their prime concern.

[CWMcMurray]

Just a question to those out there "in the know", if he was the father, could prove it and the child was in Thailand; why couldn't he petition the Thai courts for custody?

If the mother and the baby are on Thai soil, then wouldn't Thai law take precedence not Australian Law?

Although I do agree that from everything that I have heard, the Thai courts really do look at the "Best Interest of the Child".

[Mario2008]

Just a question to those out there "in the know", if he was the father, could prove it and the child was in Thailand; why couldn't he petition the Thai courts for custody?

If the mother and the baby are on Thai soil, then wouldn't Thai law take precedence not Australian Law?

Although I do agree that from everything that I have heard, the Thai courts really do look at the "Best Interest of the Child".

I think you misunderstood my post. He might be able to do that, what I was pointing out was that being recognised as the father and the petition for custody are 2 different things. Petitioning the court for being recognised as the fahter doesn't automatically leads to custody.

Thai law might take precedent, but that is unlikely as the mother and child will be here only for a short time (holiday). They would have left the country before the case would become for a judge.

But ony a real lawyer familiar with family law can give the definate answer.

[venturalaw]

It's understandable that you would like the father to be involved in his child's life, however, if there is any risk in your mind as to how he may react, and said reaction may separate you from your child, then why risk it? He can come to Australia to visit. If he does not trust you, then why trust him? Protect your child at all costs.

Edited September 20, 2009 by venturalaw

[nik2]

Totally agree with this last post. I split up with my Thai husband and we have a child who was born in Thailand. My child has both UK and Thai natiionality and although I do not think in Thailand (as in most countries) they would take a child away from the mother or prevent the child going with the mother, unless there is good reason. Why risk it if you have any doubts.

I decided to leave Thailand on the basis that, when my ex did go out and get drunk with his friends I had phone callls threatening all sorts of things and talking about taking my daughter away to his family. By the way when he was sober he was the total opposite. But the thought of being in a situation where I would be nervous for the wellbeing of my daughter I decided to leave.

Another issue that concerned me, was if in Thailand I was taken ill or unable to care for my child in some way, I would not be in a position to stop him from taking her into his care and then - would there be an issue in getting my child back? I couldn't take such a change.

So think about it carefully... Like I said my ex was a great, loving and caring dad before we broke up.

[Sontaya]

Hi

Sorry to hear about your situation. I am British and my husband is Thai. We have a 7 year old son together who has both Thai and British nationality. We live in the UK. My understanding of Thai law was that a thai man would have more rights to the child than a farang woman. In fact I have even read that if my husband died my mother in law would get custody over me. I wouldn't allow my son to travel to Thailand if my husband and I ever split.

Regardless of the laws there are a lot of very sad stories in the world of fathers taking their child to their home countries and the mothers never seeing them again. Your ex might meet your child and be the best absent father he can be - fingers crossed. Just remember how stubborn Thai men are!

Best of luck

[Mario2008]

Hi

Sorry to hear about your situation. I am British and my husband is Thai. We have a 7 year old son together who has both Thai and British nationality. We live in the UK. My understanding of Thai law was that a thai man would have more rights to the child than a farang woman. In fact I have even read that if my husband died my mother in law would get custody over me. I wouldn't allow my son to travel to Thailand if my husband and I ever split.

Regardless of the laws there are a lot of very sad stories in the world of fathers taking their child to their home countries and the mothers never seeing them again. Your ex might meet your child and be the best absent father he can be - fingers crossed. Just remember how stubborn Thai men are!

Best of luck

I think you understood wrong. There is no prefference for the male under Thai law regarding custody, nor that the mother in law would get custody if the father dies.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It's understandable that you would like the father to be involved in his child's life, however, if there is any risk in your mind as to how he may react, and said reaction may separate you from your child, then why risk it? He can come to Australia to visit. If he does not trust you, then why trust him? Protect your child at all costs.

This is the advice to follow. Saving up for the fare over might keep him off the booze. Don't take avoidable risks. If the father took the child in Thailand, Thai law does not intervene in parental

custody problems. Thailand is not a signatory to the international Hague Convention relating to child abduction. You wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on. Get advice from an Australian lawyer

or Child Protection Agency.

[swain]

I would not risk it... bad blood and you not being in your native country anything could happen. I of course would let him see the child if I was in your situation but supervised and in your home country.

Edited September 29, 2009 by swain

[Sontaya]

I have looked it up and according to the international child abduction website for Thailand it states that "The parental power is exercised by the mother, when the child was born out of wedlock and has not yet been legitimated by the father according to Section 1547"

It also says "As a matter of law, foreigners are treated on an equal basis with Thai citizens in matters relating to child custody. Thai law makes no distinction between the rights of the father and mother on issues of child custody." Which I was pleased to read!

Finally it says "ENFORCEMENT OF FOREIGN ORDERS: Foreign orders are not enforced/enforceable in Thailand. Foreign citizens who travel to Thailand place themselves under the jurisdiction of Thai courts. If a taking parent chooses to remain in Thailand with a child or leave a child behind in Thailand, their Embassy cannot force either the taking parent or the Thai Government to return the child to their home country. Foreign citizens planning a trip to Thailand with dual national children should bear this in mind."

To be honest I don't think it really matters what the law says. If the worst happened and your ex took your child, legally or not you may never see them again and if you did you may never have the money to take it to court.

Best of luck