Sondhi Convicted For Libel

[brahmburgers]

hel_l, last night some congressman called Obama a liar while giving a speech to a joint session of Congress about his health care proposals. Do you think he will go to jail? These remarks made in the heat of political battles are common place. Only in Thailand would someone go to jail in a libel case. Usually these things are civil matters with civil judgements. They are not criminal matters. This kind of criminal judicial proceeding only serves to stop unwanted dialogue. Making this a criminal offense is not healthy in a "democracy" but then Thailand is far from being democratic.

Interesting that you mention the States in comparison. I enjoy reading the monologues of American 'Late Night' type comedians. There are no holds barred - they say the craziest things. Even scatalogical (bowel movements) humor is tolerated, without the targeted individuals slapping lawsuits every which way. At worst, there was a dust-up by Sarah Palin because of a lousy joke about her daughter - but still no lawsuit. You'll notice that the freest countries (mostly western), can tolerate poking fun at prominent individuals. In sharp contrast, the most oppressive countries (Burma, N.Korea, China, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc) cannot tolerate even a hint of non-flattering comments about individuals in their juntas. Thailand is somewhere in-between.

Though press freedom is somewhat open in Thailand (it's appreciated that such things as letters to the Editor are relatively open), individual Thai big-shots need to learn to roll with the rhetoric, and not get so quickly offended, angry and lawsuit driven.

Edited September 11, 2009 by brahmburgers

[MiG16]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

1) agree

2) he did not get jail time for the airport or government house... I think that most posters calling for Yellow's to serve time is in regards to their actions NOT words...

I think it might also be worth looking at who the libel was against

and remember, SOndhi has had other more grave libel type against him.

Do you mean this? He did kick the wrong toes!>>>

Wikipedia >>> "Allegations against the Sarasin family On 27 April 2007, Sondhi claimed on his "Yam Fao Phaendin" (Guard of the Land) TV program that an amendment to the anti-corruption law passed by the National Legislative Assembly had been "stuck" for a month after being submitted for royal endorsement, and suggested the "delay" could be due to family ties between Arsa Sarasin (King Bhumibol's Principal Private Secretary) and Pong Sarasin (his eldest brother, a major shareholder in a company that Sondhi accused of acting as a nominee in the sale of Shin Corporation to Temasek Holdings).

<<< It appears that was a case of Group 2 lese majeste. [[[The second group is insult or defamation against state officials or the Court. Insulting officials (Section 136) carries a penalty of imprisonment for up to one year or a fine of up to 20,000 baht, or both. Insulting the Court or the judge (Section 198) presiding over a case carries a penalty of imprisonment for four to seven years, or a fine of 2,000 to 14,000 baht, or both.]]]]

Sondhi was also taken off the 'air' in 2005 for inappropriate references to the monarchy.

I wasnt quite referring to the above case

he said a lot of things in his public gatherings amongst his followers. most of it was aired either on the national TV, or later on his own ASTV channel. it amazed to a lot of Thais who were not avid followers of ASTV how the authorities let such things be said. at some point I suppose the authorities had to be seen that they were doing something

(I say his avid followers, as I have seen people upcountry who watch his programs - its almost like a cult. like an addiction. they lose all sense of reasoning, and overlook even the most obvious sense of decency. Sondhi can say anything, no matter how outrageous, and no one even questions its appropriateness).

so they half heartedly talked about charging him with Lese Majeste, but announced that "in the interest of national harmony" the charge was being dropped.

I have my views on that reasoning, but not really ideal to discuss that. and it is not exactly related to this particular case of libel suit against him. so will leave it here

[Plus]

"Harsh words" and jokes are different from libel, from shouting deliberate lies meant to mislead the audience.

Sondhi and his fellow PAD speakers have never been sued for jokes or harsh language, and god knows, they dished out their share.

Pridiyathorn, I believe, sued for a specific accusation, details of which are a bit hazy in my head at the moment.

[geriatrickid]

I do not think it appropriate that Sondhi be incarcerated on this charge.

There are several excellent explanations given by others, so I'll just agree with them.

He's been tossed under the bus. Seems to me that he scares the heck out of the people he once served. By getting rid of him they achieved 2 things;

i) Removal of a loose cannon

ii) The offering up of a sacrificial lamb so that those that remain behind the scenes pulling strings can show the public, that even PAD bigwigs will be brought to justice (despite this having nothing to do with his acts aside from the libel).

Has justice really been served? I don't think so. I doubt this guy will ever set foot in a prison cell for this libel conviction. Looks to me like this is all for show.

Edited September 11, 2009 by geriatrickid

[Plus]

so they half heartedly talked about charging him with Lese Majeste, but announced that "in the interest of national harmony" the charge was being dropped.

Are you talking about the case where Sondhi waved VCD with Darunee speech and retell the story in his own words? It would be silly to sue him for that, but legally you are liable for repeating LM offenses even if your point is to condemn their content.

[Briggsy]

Sentenced to prison - judge even specifies the sentence is not suspended - out on bail. I know the Thai legal system allows this but it seems more of a cop out way to put pressure on wealthy and/or powerful people rather than the due process of the law.

[Plus]

Has justice really ben served? I don't think so. I doubt this guy is never going to set foot in a prison cell for this conviction. Looks to me like this is all for show.

Well, Pridiyathorn had his reputation restored, or at least he got what he wanted.

As for Sondhi - the point is not to jail him, the point is to stop him from repeating the same offense again and again.

That's my view of how the justice should be served in this case.

[mca]

In about 10 European countries, it is now a crime to orally state or write that the jewish holocaust did not occurr. People have been sentenced and sent to prison for denying the halocaust in some of these countries. These laws is being pushed by jewish groups in other countries such as the Neatherlands and the USA also. Talk about not having freedom-of speech. Count your blessings in Thailand. Thailand has many freedoms not found in other "democracies". Many countries are far worse... and others are getting worse by the day!

Yep. Thailand that bastion of free speech where when you post a video clip rather than getting a fine or a suspended sentence of 6 months you go to prison for 10 years.

[Thai at Heart]

Has justice really ben served? I don't think so. I doubt this guy is never going to set foot in a prison cell for this conviction. Looks to me like this is all for show.

Well, Pridiyathorn had his reputation restored, or at least he got what he wanted.

As for Sondhi - the point is not to jail him, the point is to stop him from repeating the same offense again and again.

That's my view of how the justice should be served in this case.

Wouldn't a conviction prevent him from becoming an MP?

Now that's a hidden bonus for the longer term.

[MiG16]

so they half heartedly talked about charging him with Lese Majeste, but announced that "in the interest of national harmony" the charge was being dropped.

Are you talking about the case where Sondhi waved VCD with Darunee speech and retell the story in his own words? It would be silly to sue him for that, but legally you are liable for repeating LM offenses even if your point is to condemn their content.

no. but forum rules and the law of the country prohibits me from repeating the things he said. but lets just say they more than bothered on Lese Majeste

[khaowong1]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

Insane?

Double those sentences, no triple, tenfold even!!

Thai politicians might even start thinking about what to say before opening their mouth. ;-P

come on, get serious... thinking is not a Thai option... there was an article in the paper recently, about a visiting professor giving a talk, (a Thai professor) who was shunned by the university for actually stating, that Thai people and especially Thai students are not allowed or required to think... and after living here for 3 1/2 years, I would have to agree with him... Thinking, wow, it must be a farang concept....

[Ricardo]

First; one has to say that this court has had no sanction from the people via the ballot box , and therefore has no place in a democratic society.

A court can only produce fair or acceptable justice, if people vote for the judges, isn't that a bit extreme ? I hadn't realised, reform of Thailand's entire justice-system, was a part of the PTP or Red-Shirts' manifesto ? Thaksin's own lawyers would appear to approve of the current system, or why would they reward it, with 'lunch-boxes' !

I myself would regard it as progress, when people from both sides of the divide, can be convicted and sentenced by the courts, although I agree that financial-penalties and loss-of-face apologies might be more appropriate rewards, for this particular crime.

[spidermike007]

This seems like the minimum sentence that should have been imposed on the man primarily responsible for the airport fiasco.

He served to blacken Thailand's image around the world. He disrupted Thai society, and he showed a tremendous lack of

loyalty to the King and the government. I did not like that administration either. Few people did. But, what he did with the

airport was wrong, and some punishment is deserved for it. Thailand is still suffering now, and unlike the predictions of

some very ignorant pundits at the time, it will take years for the country to recover from this heinous act. Of course, the

equally preposterous acts committed by the equally ignorant red shirts in April were of no help, and equally treacherous in

their degree of harm to the country. Now, if only we can get someone bold in the government to start tackling the corruption

that is further crippling this poor country.

[TAWP]

Plus>> How about dealing with it like grownups do in other countries?

Like China, Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Brunei, North Korea, Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Somalia, Malaysia, Tajikistan, Singapore, Indonesia, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Egypt, Niger, Algeria, Oman, both Yemens, Kazakhstan, Libya, Mali, Chad, Mauritania, Qatar, Bahrain, Azerbaijan, U.A.E., Belarus, etc.

Which country's punishment would you choose TAWP? And would you choose prison, public whipping/flogging, dismemberment of an appendage, stoning to death or death by hanging, firing squad, or beheading?

I assume grownups (adults) are in control of the countrys listed above... and not children.

I was ofcourse referring to some of our countries back home. Sorry for not being overly clear and writing 'not any backwards countries included' or the likes.

If those are the countries you want Thailand to aim for....well...

I think we can do better.

[TAWP]

First; one has to say that this court has had no sanction from the people via the ballot box , and therefore has no place in a democratic society.

/.../

The courts here are never controlled via the ballot box.

But don't let that disturb your propaganda speech.

[ianh68]

1) Jail for libel is insane (no-matter who it is)

2) Atleast now some posters lose their ammo that no yellow has any prison sentence set against them.

1) agree

2) he did not get jail time for the airport or government house... I think that most posters calling for Yellow's to serve time is in regards to their actions NOT words...

Right on. Do not fall for TAWP's red herring.

[ThNiner]

Anyone who suggests that the PAD mass will be mobilized to help Sondhi stay out of jail, is so out of the loop of what the PAD movement is all about. Let me just say that average folks who generally support the PAD's causes are considerably different than the ones that are being hoodwinked by the sqaure head. This really goes to show how much (or little) some on here really know about the fundamental differences between the reds and the yellows.

PAD to riot for Sondhi's freedom!? Not in a million years.

[Plus]

so they half heartedly talked about charging him with Lese Majeste, but announced that "in the interest of national harmony" the charge was being dropped.

Are you talking about the case where Sondhi waved VCD with Darunee speech and retell the story in his own words? It would be silly to sue him for that, but legally you are liable for repeating LM offenses even if your point is to condemn their content.

no. but forum rules and the law of the country prohibits me from repeating the things he said. but lets just say they more than bothered on Lese Majeste

You don't need to repeat anything, just tell which case you had in mind.

I remember two others related to LM - one about Thaksin presiding over Royal ceremony at the Temple of Emerald Buddha, and another about Thaksin appointing acting Supreme Patriarch.

...

I don't think Sondhi ever wanted to be an MP - he's got the business to take care of, and, technically, conviction alone doesn't disqualify him, only if he spends any time in jail.

[mulliganstew]

In about 10 European countries, it is now a crime to orally state or write that the jewish holocaust did not occurr. People have been sentenced and sent to prison for denying the halocaust in some of these countries. These laws is being pushed by jewish groups in other countries such as the Neatherlands and the USA also. Talk about not having freedom-of speech. Count your blessings in Thailand. Thailand has many freedoms not found in other "democracies". Many countries are far worse... and others are getting worse by the day!

Yep. Thailand that bastion of free speech where when you post a video clip rather than getting a fine or a suspended sentence of 6 months you go to prison for 10 years.

Perhaps they should have just identified him to the general public and then set him free and allowed the overwhelming majority of Thais deal with him by way of street justice. I'm sure the public at large would have enjoyed the opportunity.

[moskito]

In about 10 European countries, it is now a crime to orally state or write that the jewish holocaust did not occurr. People have been sentenced and sent to prison for denying the halocaust in some of these countries. These laws is being pushed by jewish groups in other countries such as the Neatherlands and the USA also. Talk about not having freedom-of speech. Count your blessings in Thailand. Thailand has many freedoms not found in other "democracies". Many countries are far worse... and others are getting worse by the day!

TRUE, ...and there was a german lawyer (horst mahler) sentenced to jail for 6 month because he doubt the 9/11 case and let everybody know that HE thought it was a rocket fired from a plane which hit the WTC and Pentagon first.....FREE SPEECH in western countries?? .....its fine as long as it goes with the mass media.

As far as I remember its not easy to shut up a guy like Sondhi, even if they throw him in a dark hole somewhere, Taksin tried it once and what they get back in return was PAD

btw, is the Party which rule Thailand in the moment demoratically elected? ....or havn`t they told before whats happend after they come to power? Thailand is not a democratic country, some members here obviously forget this.

[Frezie]

The use of criminal defamation laws can be regarded a criminal offence against freedom of expression in and of itself. Unfortunately, criminal defamation laws also still exist in 17 states of the US and are being actively used there in respect of alleged Internet offences. The Uk's criminal defamation and sedition laws are still on the statute books too, although I think it is nearly 100 years since a prison sentence has been handed down for the offence there. Edward VII, as crown prince, set an example in the UK with his famous "publish and be damned" comment indicating that he would ignore lurid newspaper stories about his rakish lifestyle and would not file libel charges against newspapers or writers. Ghana is ahead of the US, UK and Thailand, having abolished its criminal and sedition laws in 2001. Nothing will change in Thailand for the foreseeable future because politicians like these laws (never expecting to fall victim themselves, even though many do) and this issue impinges on related parts of the Penal Code where reform is not up for discussion.

Sorry to be pedantic but Ed VII was Prince of Wales - we don't have a Crown Prince. He was a bit of a lad though wasn't he?

[webfact]

Sondhi fails to overturn libel verdict but jail term cut

By The Nation

The Court of Appeals on Friday confirmed the lower court's verdict finding media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul guilty of defaming former deputy communication minister Phutham Wechayachai.

The appellate review cited no prior record as ground for sentence reduction. Sondhi's jail term was cut from two years to six months. His fine of Bt200,000 was not covered by the leniency.

The case is expected to go to the Supreme Court for a final review.

It was a second legal setback for Sondhi. On Thursday he was convicted for defamation against former deputy prime minister Pridiyathorn Devakula. He was penalised with two-year imprisonment.

He was released on bail pending the appellate review.

In both cases for defaming Phumtham and Pridiyathorn, the courts found Sondhi guilty because he could not substantiate his remarks.

In defaming Phumtham, Sondhi portrayed him as an ex-communist campaigning to offend the monarchy.

-- The Nation 2009/09/11

[ThNiner]

^ That was another libel case against Sondhi that has already been rulled earlier.

[animatic]

First; one has to say that this court has had no sanction from the people via the ballot box , and therefore has no place in a democratic society.

Having said that, the judicial system is of Sondhi's own creation and he has been more than happy to see it used on his opponents.

Therefore it is appropriate in his case that he his tried by his own justice.

Hoisted by his own petard.

A victim of his own type justice.

A reaper of his own sowing.

As luck would have it a unit is presently available , on a two year term, so can be immediately occupied.

And the fate of its occupant can be in keeping with the fate of its would-be occupant, as diatribed here on tv.

Sondi's circle will no doubt widen , when introduced his new friends.

Now an appeal is mentioned, which hopefully will be in keeping with "Sondi's Law" , and increase the sentance to 10 years,

Bang..

Next please..

His own creation???

Now that comment's gone round the corner into twilight zone territory.

[clausewitz]

First; one has to say that this court has had no sanction from the people via the ballot box , and therefore has no place in a democratic society.

/.../

The courts here are never controlled via the ballot box.

But don't let that disturb your propaganda speech.

In fact some of the judges at the top of the judiciary were appointed by the coup appointed government and were openly opposed to Thasin before and after the coup.\Even the committee that brought charges against Thaksin were set up by coup leaders and were leaders in the hate campaign against him. Politics and the judicairy are unfortunately interwined in thailand.

Consider

Banjerd Singkaneti (Thai: บรรเจิด สิงคะเนติ) is Assistant Professor of Law at Thammasat University and was a noted critic of Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Education and early career

Banjerd completed an LL.B. from Ramkhamhaeng University, an LL.M. in public law from Thammasat University and a Magister Legum (LL.M.) Doktors der Rechte (Dr.jur.) from Ruhr-Universität Bochum in Germany. Banjerd returned to Thailand after completing his studies in Germany to teach administrative law and constitutional law at Thammasat University.

Criticism of Thaksin Shinawatra

Banjerd was a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, a group active in 2006 in attempting to bring down the government of Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.[2] He famously criticized Thaksin as being worse than Adolf Hitler.

“ What makes Mr. Thaksin different from Adolf Hitler was that Hitler did not do things for his own benefit. Hitler killed Jews but he did several things for his country. He was more useful for the country than Mr Thaksin was. ”

The Embassy of Israel protested in a letter to the Bangkok Post, the English-language newspaper which had published Banjerd's statement.

After the coup

After the Thai military overthrew the government of Thaksin in a coup, the junta appointed Banjerd to the Asset Exemination Committee investigating corruption allegations against Thaksin and to the Constitution Drafting Committee drafting a new permanent constitution.

During the drafting process, he rejected western-style democracy in favor of traditional social customs. “I personally believe in social structure and administration through traditions and customs that we once had in small communities. It’s more real than western-style democracy because people rule by themselves.

[clausewitz]

the fact that Sondhi was convicted in this case was only because he is seen to be ungrateful to the people who set him up. His libel against thaksin and anyone allied to thaksin is extreme but overlooked.

[ThNiner]

His libel against thaksin and anyone allied to thaksin is extreme but overlooked.

Funny typical flatout lies from the red sympathizers. Both libel cases of which Sondhi have been found guilty were against people who associated with Thaksin. The one in this thread, Sondhi accused Pridiyathorn of helping Thaksin in three main cases (which I'm too lazy to write out right now.) The other case which webfact has just posted was against Phumtham who was a key TRT member.

Can you bother checking your facts before posting such drivel please?

[ThNiner]

It's actually been stated in the OP:

Pridiyathorn argued that Sondhi had smeared him by linking him to the old power clique, a reference to the ousted government led by ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Sondhi made his news commentary that Pridiyathorn was trying to whitewash the wrongdoing committed by the ousted government.

And clausewitz still had the cheek to post this BS:

His libel against thaksin and anyone allied to thaksin is extreme but overlooked.

:sigh: ... :yawn:

[Samuian]

Anyone who suggests that the PAD mass will be mobilized to help Sondhi stay out of jail, is so out of the loop of what the PAD movement is all about. Let me just say that average folks who generally support the PAD's causes are considerably different than the ones that are being hoodwinked by the sqaure head. This really goes to show how much (or little) some on here really know about the fundamental differences between the reds and the yellows.

PAD to riot for Sondhi's freedom!? Not in a million years.

My thoughts since the debate began....

[bunuel]

He should of been done for insurrection after the airport damage.

Hear, hear! As usual, inscrutable Thai government/judiciary reveals Thai obsession with appearances rather than reality!