Settlement Visa Refusal, Paragraph 281 V

[benharris77]

Hello, my wife yesterday received notice that her settlement visa has been refused as it has been deemed that i cannot support her. I am in full time employment and we have a 4 month old daughter who is a registered uk citizen and is with her mother in south thailand. As far as I can see we fit all the criteria for the settlement visa, the only thing wrong is my bank balance. I earn £20000 a year and live and work at a college in Hampshire. With my job I have a 3 bedroom house with subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings. This has been a huge shock and I'm trying to work out my next move. I'm currentlly seeking legal advice from the Immigration advisory service but would be very grateful for advice from anybody that''s suffered a similar experience. My family and I are absolutely GUTTED

[sumrit]

Hello, my wife yesterday received notice that her settlement visa has been refused as it has been deemed that i cannot support her. I am in full time employment and we have a 4 month old daughter who is a registered uk citizen and is with her mother in south thailand. As far as I can see we fit all the criteria for the settlement visa, the only thing wrong is my bank balance. I earn £20000 a year and live and work at a college in Hampshire. With my job I have a 3 bedroom house with subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings. This has been a huge shock and I'm trying to work out my next move. I'm currentlly seeking legal advice from the Immigration advisory service but would be very grateful for advice from anybody that''s suffered a similar experience. My family and I are absolutely GUTTED

From what you've said you earn more than enough to support your family. You don't say what's wrong with you bank balance but, as an example, a friend has a 'one for all mortgage/current account' which always shows an overdraft of at least £50,000 and he didn't have any problems with his family's visas so you shouldn't be refused just for being overdrawn (he did include an explanation with the bank statements though). Did you provide full documentary evidence of your employment, income and bank details? If so maybe it's been overlooked or misinterpreted when the ECO considered the application. Fax/email the visa section expaining that you feel a mistake has been made, and why, and ask them to look again. There's also an appeals process and your wife will have received details of how to do that with the refusal. I think any appeal has to be submitted within 28 days and could take several months to complete.

One or two of the people who've posted on the 'UK Settlement' thread have had visas mistakenly refused but they've been quicky overturned when the mistake has been pointed out. Don't give up and always be polite when contacting the Embassy, even if you're seething.

Good Luck.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Hello, my wife yesterday received notice that her settlement visa has been refused as it has been deemed that i cannot support her. I am in full time employment and we have a 4 month old daughter who is a registered uk citizen and is with her mother in south thailand. As far as I can see we fit all the criteria for the settlement visa, the only thing wrong is my bank balance. I earn £20000 a year and live and work at a college in Hampshire. With my job I have a 3 bedroom house with subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings. This has been a huge shock and I'm trying to work out my next move. I'm currentlly seeking legal advice from the Immigration advisory service but would be very grateful for advice from anybody that''s suffered a similar experience. My family and I are absolutely GUTTED

The UK is very cautious about young Thai women looking to settle in England after marrying a UK subject, especially if there is an age difference (which I know should not matter but which does matter in the evaluation).

You should be able to appeal. See if there are any human rights lawyers in your neck of the woods, perhaps that angle may yield results. Also have a look and see what the European view is.

[true blue]

Hello, my wife yesterday received notice that her settlement visa has been refused as it has been deemed that i cannot support her. I am in full time employment and we have a 4 month old daughter who is a registered uk citizen and is with her mother in south thailand. As far as I can see we fit all the criteria for the settlement visa, the only thing wrong is my bank balance. I earn £20000 a year and live and work at a college in Hampshire. With my job I have a 3 bedroom house with subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings. This has been a huge shock and I'm trying to work out my next move. I'm currentlly seeking legal advice from the Immigration advisory service but would be very grateful for advice from anybody that''s suffered a similar experience. My family and I are absolutely GUTTED

The UK is very cautious about young Thai women looking to settle in England after marrying a UK subject, especially if there is an age difference (which I know should not matter but which does matter in the evaluation).

You should be able to appeal. See if there are any human rights lawyers in your neck of the woods, perhaps that angle may yield results. Also have a look and see what the European view is.

bit of the radar there arent you kbw,were does it mention age difference in op,may be u see somet that i dont ,sorry to ben for his bad news but yes pester them with new info, send bank statements wage slips and break down of outgoings fax it to them keep copies.

[7by7]

Para 281(v) says

the parties will be able to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds

It is not just a matter of what your income is, it is also a matter of what you outgoings are and how they will increase should your wife and daughter join you.

For example, a person with an income of £10Kpa who after paying for accommodation, food, utilities, servicing any debts etc has £5Kpa left probably wont fall foul of para 281(v). But a person with an income of £100Kpa who only has £500pa left after all their essential outgoings probably would.

I have also seen many posts similar to yours where the applicant and sponsor have met the requirements of para 281(v) but failed to provide sufficient evidence that they did!

Other than general comments such as above, it is impossible to make specific comments on your case without knowing exactly what the refusal notice says.

You should submit an appeal within the time limit, and include any additional evidence you may have regarding your financial situation, especially evidence that you have

subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings

Edit:

Should add that the first thing that will happen when she submits her appeal is that the Entry Clearance Manager will review the original application together with any additional evidence supplied with the appeal. If the ECM feels that the refusal was incorrect then it will be overturned. If not, then it will pass into the appeals system.

See Asylum and Immigration Tribunal.

Forget about any European or human rights issues; neither apply here.

Edited September 12, 2009 by 7by7

[CharlieB]

Hello, my wife yesterday received notice that her settlement visa has been refused as it has been deemed that i cannot support her. I am in full time employment and we have a 4 month old daughter who is a registered uk citizen and is with her mother in south thailand. As far as I can see we fit all the criteria for the settlement visa, the only thing wrong is my bank balance. I earn £20000 a year and live and work at a college in Hampshire. With my job I have a 3 bedroom house with subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings. This has been a huge shock and I'm trying to work out my next move. I'm currentlly seeking legal advice from the Immigration advisory service but would be very grateful for advice from anybody that''s suffered a similar experience. My family and I are absolutely GUTTED

What proof of your finances did you provide? 6 months worth of wage slips, 6 months worth of bank statements? Detailed breakdown of all your monthly outgoings? It may not be the fact you can't look after them financially, but more that you haven't provided enough proof that you can. At the moment, without her in the country, roughly how much a week do you have left after all outgoings?

Edited September 12, 2009 by CharlieB

[benharris77]

Thanks a lot for your comments they are much appreciated. I just received the details from my wife, I am living in my overdraft at the moment and it seems that the reason for refusal was the lack of proof that I have an overdraft facility. Hopefully when I provide proof of this they will over turn the refusal. I'm going to see a solicitor on Monday morning for some advice before I appeal. If I email or fax the visa section at the embassy are they likely to respond or is it best to submit all the documents by post?? Again thank you so much for your comments.

[benharris77]

Hello, my wife yesterday received notice that her settlement visa has been refused as it has been deemed that i cannot support her. I am in full time employment and we have a 4 month old daughter who is a registered uk citizen and is with her mother in south thailand. As far as I can see we fit all the criteria for the settlement visa, the only thing wrong is my bank balance. I earn £20000 a year and live and work at a college in Hampshire. With my job I have a 3 bedroom house with subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings. This has been a huge shock and I'm trying to work out my next move. I'm currentlly seeking legal advice from the Immigration advisory service but would be very grateful for advice from anybody that''s suffered a similar experience. My family and I are absolutely GUTTED

The UK is very cautious about young Thai women looking to settle in England after marrying a UK subject, especially if there is an age difference (which I know should not matter but which does matter in the evaluation).

You should be able to appeal. See if there are any human rights lawyers in your neck of the woods, perhaps that angle may yield results. Also have a look and see what the European view is.

bit of the radar there arent you kbw,were does it mention age difference in op,may be u see somet that i dont ,sorry to ben for his bad news but yes pester them with new info, send bank statements wage slips and break down of outgoings fax it to them keep copies.

I would like to add that we are both in our early thirties.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Hello, my wife yesterday received notice that her settlement visa has been refused as it has been deemed that i cannot support her. I am in full time employment and we have a 4 month old daughter who is a registered uk citizen and is with her mother in south thailand. As far as I can see we fit all the criteria for the settlement visa, the only thing wrong is my bank balance. I earn £20000 a year and live and work at a college in Hampshire. With my job I have a 3 bedroom house with subsidised rent, no council tax and no other significant outgoings. This has been a huge shock and I'm trying to work out my next move. I'm currentlly seeking legal advice from the Immigration advisory service but would be very grateful for advice from anybody that''s suffered a similar experience. My family and I are absolutely GUTTED

The UK is very cautious about young Thai women looking to settle in England after marrying a UK subject, especially if there is an age difference (which I know should not matter but which does matter in the evaluation).

You should be able to appeal. See if there are any human rights lawyers in your neck of the woods, perhaps that angle may yield results. Also have a look and see what the European view is.

bit of the radar there arent you kbw,were does it mention age difference in op,may be u see somet that i dont ,sorry to ben for his bad news but yes pester them with new info, send bank statements wage slips and break down of outgoings fax it to them keep copies.

Result of a conversation a while back with the Home Office. It isn't a formal regulation (what a surprise), just a factor which the appraising officer will keep in mind.

[spacebass]

Thanks a lot for your comments they are much appreciated. I just received the details from my wife, I am living in my overdraft at the moment and it seems that the reason for refusal was the lack of proof that I have an overdraft facility. Hopefully when I provide proof of this they will over turn the refusal. I'm going to see a solicitor on Monday morning for some advice before I appeal. If I email or fax the visa section at the embassy are they likely to respond or is it best to submit all the documents by post?? Again thank you so much for your comments.

I would appraise your M.P. of the situation. In fact if I was applying for any similar visa given the "Whim of the civil servant prevails", culture that certainly exists I would appraise my M.P. of the whole thing, until such culture is legislated against. You have to get outside the Home Office structure or you lose.

[FELTBOBBY]

Thanks a lot for your comments they are much appreciated. I just received the details from my wife, I am living in my overdraft at the moment and it seems that the reason for refusal was the lack of proof that I have an overdraft facility. Hopefully when I provide proof of this they will over turn the refusal. I'm going to see a solicitor on Monday morning for some advice before I appeal. If I email or fax the visa section at the embassy are they likely to respond or is it best to submit all the documents by post?? Again thank you so much for your comments.

I would appraise your M.P. of the situation. In fact if I was applying for any similar visa given the "Whim of the civil servant prevails", culture that certainly exists I would appraise my M.P. of the whole thing, until such culture is legislated against. You have to get outside the Home Office structure or you lose.

A British friend of mine had a similar problem, ( his wife being 30 years younger than himself making the issue of a settlement visa very difficult! IMHO) All their substantive submissions were in order and he was employed by the Brtish Government but a refusal notice was issued. Their appeal to the ECM proved to be futile.

He then wrote to his MP, (who was extremely helpful) and also attended a tribunal in the UK some 5 months later where the judge was so scathing of the Britsh Embassy staff in Bangkok, he wrote them a letter, accusing them of being economical with the truth and ordering them to issue a settlement visa immediately.

It may be of interest to know that Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights states that you are entitled to a family life in the UK. This especially applies if you have children. Your wife does not qualify for EHR but YOU do and you may wish to include this in any subsequent appeal. Personally i wouldn't waste money on solicitors, just do your homework and submit the appeal.

Good luck

[potter09]

It may be of interest to know that Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights states that you are entitled to a family life in the UK. This especially applies if you have children. Your wife does not qualify for EHR but YOU do and you may wish to include this in any subsequent appeal. Personally i wouldn't waste money on solicitors, just do your homework and submit the appeal.

Good luck

Article 8,ECHR does not confer an absolute right;it is a qualified right. The contracting state (UK) has the right to control of non-nationals into its territory and the UKBA is the appropriate public authority which takes decisions in this respect. In visa refusal notices,ECOs often refer(perhaps mandatory to do so now) to the possible infringemen of Article 8 right but goes on to justify their decision by citing some other section/part of the UK immigration rules which are aimed at border control.

[true blue]

Thanks a lot for your comments they are much appreciated. I just received the details from my wife, I am living in my overdraft at the moment and it seems that the reason for refusal was the lack of proof that I have an overdraft facility. Hopefully when I provide proof of this they will over turn the refusal. I'm going to see a solicitor on Monday morning for some advice before I appeal. If I email or fax the visa section at the embassy are they likely to respond or is it best to submit all the documents by post?? Again thank you so much for your comments.

I would appraise your M.P. of the situation. In fact if I was applying for any similar visa given the "Whim of the civil servant prevails", culture that certainly exists I would appraise my M.P. of the whole thing, until such culture is legislated against. You have to get outside the Home Office structure or you lose.

A British friend of mine had a similar problem, ( his wife being 30 years younger than himself making the issue of a settlement visa very difficult! IMHO) All their substantive submissions were in order and he was employed by the Brtish Government but a refusal notice was issued. Their appeal to the ECM proved to be futile.

He then wrote to his MP, (who was extremely helpful) and also attended a tribunal in the UK some 5 months later where the judge was so scathing of the Britsh Embassy staff in Bangkok, he wrote them a letter, accusing them of being economical with the truth and ordering them to issue a settlement visa immediately.

It may be of interest to know that Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights states that you are entitled to a family life in the UK. This especially applies if you have children. Your wife does not qualify for EHR but YOU do and you may wish to include this in any subsequent appeal. Personally i wouldn't waste money on solicitors, just do your homework and submit the appeal.

Good luck

my missus is nearly 35 younger than me ihad no proplem with s/v

[true blue]

2 of my friends,both in uk at the moment on s/v,have wifes over 30 years younger than them,in fact one is 40 years younger.

[7by7]

Thanks a lot for your comments they are much appreciated. I just received the details from my wife, I am living in my overdraft at the moment and it seems that the reason for refusal was the lack of proof that I have an overdraft facility. Hopefully when I provide proof of this they will over turn the refusal. I'm going to see a solicitor on Monday morning for some advice before I appeal. If I email or fax the visa section at the embassy are they likely to respond or is it best to submit all the documents by post?? Again thank you so much for your comments.

The sponsor having an overdraft is not a reason for refusal. However, that overdraft must be approved by the bank and be adequately serviced.

What evidence of your finances did you supply in the application? If it was just bank statements showing you being regularly overdrawn, then I am not surprised that she was refused on maintenance grounds.

With the appeal include the letter from your bank approving the overdraft facility and it's terms. If you no longer have this, then ask them to write you another.

Any supplementary evidence submitted with the appeal should be original documents, so post them to her.

Remember, she must lodge her appeal within 28 days of the refusal. If it is not possible for you to get the missing documents to her in time then she will have to lodge the appeal without them.

See Appeals

Can I ask those arguing about age differences to do so elsewhere. It's not relevant to Ben's situation.

[elliss]

2 of my friends,both in uk at the moment on s/v,have wifes over 30 years younger than them,in fact one is 40 years younger.

age, is not an issue ..

what is important is , your permanent residence .

if you are a house / property owner ..

[hhgz]

"...accusing them of being economical with the truth..."

Unless farang boyfriends/fiances/husbands were "economical with the truth", no thai woman would be allowed to settle outside of Thailand.

[bobrussell]

First port of call should be your MP - UKBA have a special hotline and faxline for MP's. When my wife and daughter were detained at Heathrow earlier in the summer apparently with the 'wrong' visas (another story) removal from the UK within days was replaced with 'when are they planning to go back? - that will be fine'.

MP's seem to spend a lot of time sorting out the mess made of visa application processing. This sounds as if a little pressure from the right quarter may have the desired effect without the need for a formal appeal but watch the time limit for appeals.

Others more experienced with the appeals process should advise you on that subject!

[aubutie]

Hi, I am in a similar(ish) situation, and we are currently waiting for the ILR to be returned, over the last 2 years my wife has not worked (although she has just started), I have been the only real breadwinner, during this time we have had a baby and not had recourse to public funds, other than child related, I earn a £30,000 seems a decent wage however we still spend about £500 per month more than I earn. this has all but done away with all my savings, The other thing that I did that might have a bearing is that I sent details of an Insurance policy with its current surrender value, a resonably large amount - but this issue does worry me

[potter09]

Hi, I am in a similar(ish) situation, and we are currently waiting for the ILR to be returned, over the last 2 years my wife has not worked (although she has just started), I have been the only real breadwinner, during this time we have had a baby and not had recourse to public funds, other than child related, I earn a £30,000 seems a decent wage however we still spend about £500 per month more than I earn. this has all but done away with all my savings, The other thing that I did that might have a bearing is that I sent details of an Insurance policy with its current surrender value, a resonably large amount - but this issue does worry me

It has been demonstrated that your wife (& child) has already lived in the UK without recourse to public funds and presumably also have an unblemished immigration record. Earnings of £30k;surely,that's well above the average earning level in the UK and should be sufficient for a family of three. Overdraft? Millions use/need the same to survive and why should the UKBA worry about that?;that's your personal choice--in fact, they're not bothererd and will not apply a higher test on people who apply for ILR or settlement visa. Indeed,an existing insurance policy(with a surrender value) is considered a savings/asset which can be readily utilised if needed, so that too is counted as your 'spending power'. I really do not think there's anything to worry here.

[benharris77]

I'm currently using the Immigration Advisory Service. I was advised to use them by a Solicitor friend (sort of friend). As I qualify for legal aid I get a free service. They were very confident and almost as disbelieving as to the fact that the visa had been refused based on me not producing proof that i have an overdraft facility on my bank account. They obviously paid no attention to the 6 months of bank statements. Also it seems they didn't pick up on the fact that my rent is taken directly from my salary as I live on site at an agricultural college, this is very clearly shown on my wage slips. Also my disposable income each month is well within what is acceptable to support my wife. So hopefully the refusal will be overturned within the next few weeks, otherwise its a tribunal which could take months. I would reccomend the I.A.S. Although my wife isn't here yet they made me feel confident of a positive outcome.

www.iasuk.org

[7by7]

They were very confident and almost as disbelieving as to the fact that the visa had been refused based on me not producing proof that i have an overdraft facility on my bank account. They obviously paid no attention to the 6 months of bank statements.........Also my disposable income each month is well within what is acceptable to support my wife.

As said before, having an overdraft is no bar to satisfying the maintenance requirements, provided that overdraft is approved by your bank and being properly serviced. But you have to show the ECO that it is. From your previous posts it appears that all you provided were your bank statements which merely show the overdraft. If you are overdrawn every month without the overdraft being agreed by the bank, how can you have any disposable income at all, let alone enough to support your wife?

ECOs are not mind readers and can only base their decisions on the evidence provided.

hopefully the refusal will be overturned within the next few weeks

Now that you have provided the complete evidence, hopefully this will be the case. Good luck.