Doi Suthep

[wolf5370]

Wierd. I had some family come up from BKK last weekend and they wanted to go to Doi Suthep (tried my hardest to get them to go to Walking St Market - but nope). Its been many years since I went to the temple (rather than whizzing by on my way north).

Usually I walk up the stairs, but we had small kids, so did the lift. 20B per person - 50 for the Farrang! I told them I'm a local and got a 20 B ticket - but then the woman at the lift would not allow me on and I had to swap it out for the 50B one.

I am sure the last time I used the lift it was free (about 10 years ago I think) - for everyone - after all its a temple and we are likely to be giving up there anyway. It rather peed me off given that I was with 15 Thais and they knew I wasn't a tourist (indeed am local!).

Usually I would leave a donation - a few hundred baht or so - but for their 30B con, they lost my donation. I wonder how many other people feel this way and how much it actually costs the temple! Its not as if they hide it - in great big letter on the glass at the kiosk it say foreigner 30B extra.

[Donnyboy]

30B con wouldnt get me upset, but i guess its the principle. Im sure if you had your Thai drivers license you can get local price

I love the walk up and down

[CMDR]

Please do not get upset but I think most of farang who live here do not pat tax, do they?

Just a 20-30 baht extra for the local to spend to maintain all the facilities at temple and national parks, is quite reasonable.

[Maejo Man]

They always used to charge for the lift, but it was 10 baht across the board. Then they had a few fatalities, and people too to walking instead. Now they have all new lift equipment, but I still choose to walk.

Then at the top of the stairs there is a wonderful sign that states "foreigners this way to pay for entry" Then another in Thai that says Thais go straight ahead, entry free.

When I was up there last month with some Thai friends from Bangkok, I just walked straight ahead.

[Loaded]

Then at the top of the stairs there is a wonderful sign that states "foreigners this way to pay for entry" Then another in Thai that says Thais go straight ahead, entry free.

When I was up there last month with some Thai friends from Bangkok, I just walked straight ahead.

I have probably spent more time meditating in Thai temples than most Thais and the shouts of Thai tour guides at the top of the steps "hey you farang" accompanied with a stupid grin pointing at the sign and the direction for me to follow to pay an entrance fee to enter the temple really annoys me. It's only in English as well. No sign in Japanese, Korean or Chinese.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Loaded

[brommers]

Please do not get upset but I think most of farang who live here do not pat tax, do they?

Just a 20-30 baht extra for the local to spend to maintain all the facilities at temple and national parks, is quite reasonable.

Some might not pay Income Tax but everyone pays VAT. Dual pricing is just a form of racial discrimination & is odious.

[britmaveric]

protest with your legs and walk up.

[rohitsuk]

Please do not get upset but I think most of farang who live here do not pat tax, do they?

Just a 20-30 baht extra for the local to spend to maintain all the facilities at temple and national parks, is quite reasonable.

Fair point CMDR but a lot of Thai people do not pay taxes either and yes I am thinking of a certain former PM from around these 'ere parts. ! But sound advice, don't get upset because do you know how much it costs to visit St, Paul's Cathedral in London ? Well it's not Baht 50 that's for sure, several pounds and they are just as happy to rob their fellow countrymen as farangs. Now what was it Jesus said to the money changers in the temple ? Oh yes......"den of thieves".

We do not pay local taxes either because there are none and no Council Tax or National Insurance, unless you are working. I do not know who pays the chaps who empty my bins (every other day) or change the street lights when they blow or tidy the jungle when it encroaches on the roads but it is definitely not me.

I have never thought it racist, that's much too complex. It is just financial opportunism plain and simple - yes the old Ogre of Greed rearing its ugly head. So let us accept CMDR's advice and don't get upset but meditate instead upon how much cheaper a + Baht 30 charge is than a Baht 300 donation ! Whoops, the old Ogre again.

Swings and roundabouts, yes balance dear friends balance is needed for both and if it wasn't like that, it wouldn't be like this so on balance, it must surely suit us or we would be long gone, would't we ?

Edited September 14, 2009 by rohitsuk

[KevinHunt]

Wierd. I had some family come up from BKK last weekend and they wanted to go to Doi Suthep (tried my hardest to get them to go to Walking St Market - but nope). Its been many years since I went to the temple (rather than whizzing by on my way north).

Usually I walk up the stairs, but we had small kids, so did the lift. 20B per person - 50 for the Farrang! I told them I'm a local and got a 20 B ticket - but then the woman at the lift would not allow me on and I had to swap it out for the 50B one.

I am sure the last time I used the lift it was free (about 10 years ago I think) - for everyone - after all its a temple and we are likely to be giving up there anyway. It rather peed me off given that I was with 15 Thais and they knew I wasn't a tourist (indeed am local!).

Usually I would leave a donation - a few hundred baht or so - but for their 30B con, they lost my donation. I wonder how many other people feel this way and how much it actually costs the temple! Its not as if they hide it - in great big letter on the glass at the kiosk it say foreigner 30B extra.

What was weird? That your family from Bangkok wanted to go to one of the most important temples in Chiang Mai rather than go shopping?

Have you really been here for many years - 10 or more? If so why are you bothered about 30 baht entrance fee to Chiang Mai's most important temple? I'm amazed that after so long staying here you still refer to the fee as a 'con', and the dual-pricing issue still burns inside you. You haven't learnt much in 10 years, it seems.

Why do you normally leave a few hundred baht donation? Obviously not for 'merit'. What did you achieve by not donating? Something to do with principles? Now that is weird.

What did your family from Bangkok make of all this, I wonder.

[Loaded]

protest with your legs and walk up.

The sign that's written only in English that tells farang to buy a ticket to enter is at the top of the stairs. IE you have walked up.

[Loaded]

What was weird? That your family from Bangkok wanted to go to one of the most important temples in Chiang Mai rather than go shopping?

Have you really been here for many years - 10 or more? If so why are you bothered about 30 baht entrance fee to Chiang Mai's most important temple? I'm amazed that after so long staying here you still refer to the fee as a 'con', and the dual-pricing issue still burns inside you. You haven't learnt much in 10 years, it seems.

Why do you normally leave a few hundred baht donation? Obviously not for 'merit'. What did you achieve by not donating? Something to do with principles? Now that is weird.

What did your family from Bangkok make of all this, I wonder.

^ winner by a long way of the most worthless contribution to the board 2009.

Well done Kevin. A free bottle of water is waiting you at a decent pub.

[getgoin]

My problem is that I never notice any sort of duel pricing. I usually get the bill and if it was 30 Baht I wouldn't give it a second look. I guess I should be more careful with my satang, it adds up.

This forum has batted around the duel pricing time and time again. While it may be somewhat blatant at someplace like Doi Suthep and Fabrique it is also prevalent in everything that a foreigner does from buying a used car, to getting something done on the house, to taking a taxi across town. If duel pricing is going to bother you than you probably won't be comfortable in any developing country. It is going on when you buy hashish in Turkey and coffee in Ethiopia. In Hawaii they routinely offer a local's price for someone with a Hawaii driver's license.

Thai people often come into tourist oriented restaurants and ask for the Thai discount.

I have always been amazed at the amount of time that I will spend in the market haggling over 5 or 10 Baht. It's part of the life and the culture here and the best way to get through it is to accept it, to bargain your day away or to walk away.

Years ago, when I first started coming to Thailand, I used to obsess over what I spent and how much I could have saved if I had bargained more. Now, I try to get the best deal that I can, I rarely if ever pay a deposit on work to be done and I try not to worry about the 30 Baht.

[caf]

Wierd. I had some family come up from BKK last weekend and they wanted to go to Doi Suthep (tried my hardest to get them to go to Walking St Market - but nope). Its been many years since I went to the temple (rather than whizzing by on my way north).

Usually I walk up the stairs, but we had small kids, so did the lift. 20B per person - 50 for the Farrang! I told them I'm a local and got a 20 B ticket - but then the woman at the lift would not allow me on and I had to swap it out for the 50B one.

I am sure the last time I used the lift it was free (about 10 years ago I think) - for everyone - after all its a temple and we are likely to be giving up there anyway. It rather peed me off given that I was with 15 Thais and they knew I wasn't a tourist (indeed am local!).

Usually I would leave a donation - a few hundred baht or so - but for their 30B con, they lost my donation. I wonder how many other people feel this way and how much it actually costs the temple! Its not as if they hide it - in great big letter on the glass at the kiosk it say foreigner 30B extra.

What was weird? That your family from Bangkok wanted to go to one of the most important temples in Chiang Mai rather than go shopping?

Have you really been here for many years - 10 or more? If so why are you bothered about 30 baht entrance fee to Chiang Mai's most important temple? I'm amazed that after so long staying here you still refer to the fee as a 'con', and the dual-pricing issue still burns inside you. You haven't learnt much in 10 years, it seems.

Why do you normally leave a few hundred baht donation? Obviously not for 'merit'. What did you achieve by not donating? Something to do with principles? Now that is weird.

What did your family from Bangkok make of all this, I wonder.

Oh dear, Kevin. Had a bad day, have you. Don't over-react in the early hours of the morning. This is only a forum. To stay calm just repeat the mantra " free water, free water..." several times and that sap of anger will surely pass.

[hmficc]

Wierd. I had some family come up from BKK last weekend and they wanted to go to Doi Suthep (tried my hardest to get them to go to Walking St Market - but nope). Its been many years since I went to the temple (rather than whizzing by on my way north).

Usually I walk up the stairs, but we had small kids, so did the lift. 20B per person - 50 for the Farrang! I told them I'm a local and got a 20 B ticket - but then the woman at the lift would not allow me on and I had to swap it out for the 50B one.

I am sure the last time I used the lift it was free (about 10 years ago I think) - for everyone - after all its a temple and we are likely to be giving up there anyway. It rather peed me off given that I was with 15 Thais and they knew I wasn't a tourist (indeed am local!).

Usually I would leave a donation - a few hundred baht or so - but for their 30B con, they lost my donation. I wonder how many other people feel this way and how much it actually costs the temple! Its not as if they hide it - in great big letter on the glass at the kiosk it say foreigner 30B extra.

Get over it. You are not "local" -you live here and never will be. I am fed up with this kind of cry baby thread. Their country, their Doi, their rules. A little Thailand acceptance will make you happy. You come to gwak- they to worship. Be gracious in making your small DONATION to this country you seem to use but have no right to be in. You are here at Thai sufferance. It sounds as if you wished to be loved, not just tollateted.

[vagabond48]

In the past, I would usually visit the temple when I rode my bicycle up. Since I love climbing stairs, I had no problem to continue my exercise up to the temple. I usually went to the meditation center, for a little quiet. When making my right, if I was asked about paying the entrance fee, I simply said vippassa (meditation) and ignored any further calls to pay and continued on.

[Ulysses G.]

Double pricing is a great excuse not to bother with visiting any of Thailand's somewhat dubious attractions. When they come up with something like the Smithsonian Institute or The Louvre, I might bother getting upset about it.

[Donnyboy]

looks like the OP could do with our special tee shirt

[KevinHunt]

Wierd. I had some family come up from BKK last weekend and they wanted to go to Doi Suthep (tried my hardest to get them to go to Walking St Market - but nope). Its been many years since I went to the temple (rather than whizzing by on my way north).

Usually I walk up the stairs, but we had small kids, so did the lift. 20B per person - 50 for the Farrang! I told them I'm a local and got a 20 B ticket - but then the woman at the lift would not allow me on and I had to swap it out for the 50B one.

I am sure the last time I used the lift it was free (about 10 years ago I think) - for everyone - after all its a temple and we are likely to be giving up there anyway. It rather peed me off given that I was with 15 Thais and they knew I wasn't a tourist (indeed am local!).

Usually I would leave a donation - a few hundred baht or so - but for their 30B con, they lost my donation. I wonder how many other people feel this way and how much it actually costs the temple! Its not as if they hide it - in great big letter on the glass at the kiosk it say foreigner 30B extra.

What was weird? That your family from Bangkok wanted to go to one of the most important temples in Chiang Mai rather than go shopping?

Have you really been here for many years - 10 or more? If so why are you bothered about 30 baht entrance fee to Chiang Mai's most important temple? I'm amazed that after so long staying here you still refer to the fee as a 'con', and the dual-pricing issue still burns inside you. You haven't learnt much in 10 years, it seems.

Why do you normally leave a few hundred baht donation? Obviously not for 'merit'. What did you achieve by not donating? Something to do with principles? Now that is weird.

What did your family from Bangkok make of all this, I wonder.

Oh dear, Kevin. Had a bad day, have you. Don't over-react in the early hours of the morning. This is only a forum. To stay calm just repeat the mantra " free water, free water..." several times and that sap of anger will surely pass.

I had a very nice day thank you, except for the fact that I somehow managed to whack myself on the head with my tennis racket whilst trying to play a curving shot at the body!! Second time this year, as it happens!! That was the first time I lost a set by a Knock Out!!

My post was in no way angry I think maybe you just read it as such. I don't even get angry when Liverpool lose so why should I get angry at peoples over-reaction to being 'conned'?

The fact that Wolfy has been here for so long and still gets bothered about 30 baht and thinks he's being conned merely amuses me. He should have been enjoying the visist of his family rather than getting all un-necessary, don't you think?

Edited September 15, 2009 by KevinHunt

[KevinHunt]

What was weird? That your family from Bangkok wanted to go to one of the most important temples in Chiang Mai rather than go shopping?

Have you really been here for many years - 10 or more? If so why are you bothered about 30 baht entrance fee to Chiang Mai's most important temple? I'm amazed that after so long staying here you still refer to the fee as a 'con', and the dual-pricing issue still burns inside you. You haven't learnt much in 10 years, it seems.

Why do you normally leave a few hundred baht donation? Obviously not for 'merit'. What did you achieve by not donating? Something to do with principles? Now that is weird.

What did your family from Bangkok make of all this, I wonder.

Winner by a long way of the most worthless contribution to the board 2009.

Well done Kevin. A free bottle of water is waiting you at a decent pub.

I wouldn't go so far as to say his post was worthless!! A bit harsh.

You could be onto something here though. Maybe we could have awards for the forum, with prizes given out at the annual party. I'll donate a whole case to cover the many different categories. To be fair to everyone else, I won't take my prizes. 

[wolf5370]

looks like the OP could do with our special tee shirt

Yep - I want one

[wolf5370]

Wierd. I had some family come up from BKK last weekend and they wanted to go to Doi Suthep (tried my hardest to get them to go to Walking St Market - but nope). Its been many years since I went to the temple (rather than whizzing by on my way north).

Usually I walk up the stairs, but we had small kids, so did the lift. 20B per person - 50 for the Farrang! I told them I'm a local and got a 20 B ticket - but then the woman at the lift would not allow me on and I had to swap it out for the 50B one.

I am sure the last time I used the lift it was free (about 10 years ago I think) - for everyone - after all its a temple and we are likely to be giving up there anyway. It rather peed me off given that I was with 15 Thais and they knew I wasn't a tourist (indeed am local!).

Usually I would leave a donation - a few hundred baht or so - but for their 30B con, they lost my donation. I wonder how many other people feel this way and how much it actually costs the temple! Its not as if they hide it - in great big letter on the glass at the kiosk it say foreigner 30B extra.

What was weird? That your family from Bangkok wanted to go to one of the most important temples in Chiang Mai rather than go shopping?

Have you really been here for many years - 10 or more? If so why are you bothered about 30 baht entrance fee to Chiang Mai's most important temple? I'm amazed that after so long staying here you still refer to the fee as a 'con', and the dual-pricing issue still burns inside you. You haven't learnt much in 10 years, it seems.

Why do you normally leave a few hundred baht donation? Obviously not for 'merit'. What did you achieve by not donating? Something to do with principles? Now that is weird.

What did your family from Bangkok make of all this, I wonder.

Oh dear, Kevin. Had a bad day, have you. Don't over-react in the early hours of the morning. This is only a forum. To stay calm just repeat the mantra " free water, free water..." several times and that sap of anger will surely pass.

I had a very nice day thank you, except for the fact that I somehow managed to whack myself on the head with my tennis racket whilst trying to play a curving shot at the body!! Second time this year, as it happens!! That was the first time I lost a set by a Knock Out!!

My post was in no way angry I think maybe you just read it as such. I don't even get angry when Liverpool lose so why should I get angry at peoples over-reaction to being 'conned'?

The fact that Wolfy has been here for so long and still gets bothered about 30 baht and thinks he's being conned merely amuses me. He should have been enjoying the visist of his family rather than getting all un-necessary, don't you think?

OK....I said weird because I did think it was wierd to charge this way at a religious site - was I angry, no, more amused. Did I think it was a con, Hel_l yes and I always will. Why do I give a donation, no not for merit (to give money in expectation of merit would be a contradiction) I give the donation to help with the running costs etc - for the monks etc. Donations should be optional. In fact I truly believe that if the put a big box with the words 'Donations - please give generously' they will get better responses both monetarily and attitude. As they had forced me to pay a donation, there seemed little point in giving again - their mistake (again, this is what I meant by weird - I just though it would be obvious, but maybe some people need spoon feeding).

Dual pricing doesn't 'burn' inside me, but it does get on my tits and irritates me - and it is a con (even if 'their rules' calls it something different and you don't care about being ripped off). I also never said I have lived here for ten years, this was a assumption made by you - for all you know I could have visited Thailand twice at a ten year interval! Neither is true, and neither is relevant.

As to my family, they were pissed off by it - and many of us who spend time with Thais and go places with them find that the Thais are very often embarrassed and angry by dual pricing too.

I expect it at national parks and entertainments (zoo etc), I don't like it, but I accept it - I just don't think religious places of worship should charge and certainly shouldn't be in the farrang-rip-off game.

Someone mentioned St Paul's Cathedral - I just Googled it - they have very high ticket prices (and its not worth it! - been there several times before they charged). I also think this is abhorrent and think they should be ashamed of themselves - I can understand charging for events or for galleries (museum/art gallery/etc) but not for entry to the church (Cathedral) itself. Just as despicable IMO.

[KevinHunt]

If I go to a Thai temple I go as a tourist and not as a worshipper.Similarly, if I go to Liverpool cathedral I go as a tourist, despite the fact that I am a native of that fine city. Worshippers at either place are not required to pay an entrance fee, and indeed some people here mentioned that if you were to tell them that you were visiting a temple to meditate I'm sure you wouldn't have to pay. If I am a tourist at most places of interest I expect to pay something to help towards it's upkeep.

I imagine that your family see going to Wat Phrathat Doi Suthep as a sort of pilgrimage and as such aren't required to pay. The majority of worshippers will be making some contribution to the upkeep of the temple either by purchasing joss-stick, candles etc or by making voluntary donations. Many asians from other countries would be going for religious purposes too.

Other than interview everyone that enters, it is possibly easier to put a polite notice asking for a minimal fee. Something along the lines of 'foreigners 30 baht' or to include it in the price of the 'lift'. It would be nice to think that a fee isn't required, as most people should be quite willing to make a voluntary donation, but the evidence suggests that that isn't the case.

That's how I see it. 'Rip off' and 'con' shouldn't be words you associate with religious sites. They are administered by holy people after all. Holier than me, for sure.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it seems entirely plausible that Thai's just don't want to encourage non Asian looking foreigners to visit and be seen in their precious temples. I would imagine it ruins the appearance and experience for them the same way it affects other xenophobic and racist cultures and subgroups around the world.

The thing that annoys me most is that the fruit lady outside on the street(doi suthep) will try to ignore foreigners who aren't properly dressed even when they are just cycling past temple. Give it a rest fruit Nazi's.

[KevinHunt]

it seems entirely plausible that Thai's just don't want to encourage non Asian looking foreigners to visit and be seen in their precious temples. I would imagine it ruins the appearance and experience for them the same way it affects other xenophobic and racist cultures and subgroups around the world.

The thing that annoys me most is that the fruit lady outside on the street(doi suthep) will try to ignore foreigners who aren't properly dressed even when they are just cycling past temple. Give it a rest fruit Nazi's.

Wow!! That's worth a free bottle of water, or possibly a case. You just won all categories of the annual TV Chaing Mai awards. Well done.

I'm with the fruit lady. I think that I too would want to ignore a foreigner that's just cycled up Doi Suthep.

Glad to see that you are not racist or xenophobic.

Edited September 15, 2009 by KevinHunt

[wolf5370]

If I go to a Thai temple I go as a tourist and not as a worshipper.Similarly, if I go to Liverpool cathedral I go as a tourist, despite the fact that I am a native of that fine city. Worshippers at either place are not required to pay an entrance fee, and indeed some people here mentioned that if you were to tell them that you were visiting a temple to meditate I'm sure you wouldn't have to pay. If I am a tourist at most places of interest I expect to pay something to help towards it's upkeep.

I imagine that your family see going to Wat Phrathat Doi Suthep as a sort of pilgrimage and as such aren't required to pay. The majority of worshippers will be making some contribution to the upkeep of the temple either by purchasing joss-stick, candles etc or by making voluntary donations. Many asians from other countries would be going for religious purposes too.

Other than interview everyone that enters, it is possibly easier to put a polite notice asking for a minimal fee. Something along the lines of 'foreigners 30 baht' or to include it in the price of the 'lift'. It would be nice to think that a fee isn't required, as most people should be quite willing to make a voluntary donation, but the evidence suggests that that isn't the case.

That's how I see it. 'Rip off' and 'con' shouldn't be words you associate with religious sites. They are administered by holy people after all. Holier than me, for sure.

Well, I went to worship too - I bought Joss-Sticks, gold leaf and candles and a lotus flower (in fact I bought 4 lots of them and my family a further 6). I was not given an option of saying 'meditation' as I was at the lift door and was refused entry to the lift with my 20B ticket. If I had walked up, which I would have done if it not for the fact that the little kids can't make it, then I suppose I could have pushed into the Thai gateway saying it over my shoulder. I disagree with what you say "most people should be quite willing to make a voluntary donation, but the evidence suggests that that isn't the case" because I believe they are - and most people there are buying the joss-stick et al, even if they are not actually praying. I do agree with "'Rip off' and 'con' shouldn't be words you associate with religious sites" which is my point exactly. Anyway, you are still missing the point of my post, it is not a personal issue I am trying to discuss, but a conceptual one. I don't give a rats arse about 30B, I care that a religious site is descriminating for the sole reason of milking the farrang cash-cow.

If the sign said 'Non worshippers please leave a donation: expected minimum 30B' then fine, I guess - but they don't. They are not an entertainment site, they are a religious place of worship and as you said yourself a place of pilgrimage. They are deciding on the colour of the skin (Japanese, Chinese, Filipinos, etc - all go for 20B) - I had two Asian American's in front of me, they spoke no Thai at the kiosk and got 20B tickets - at the life they were chatting quite loudly in American voices, Did they get refused entry? Nope.

[Thailand]

it seems entirely plausible that Thai's just don't want to encourage non Asian looking foreigners to visit and be seen in their precious temples. I would imagine it ruins the appearance and experience for them the same way it affects other xenophobic and racist cultures and subgroups around the world.

The thing that annoys me most is that the fruit lady outside on the street(doi suthep) will try to ignore foreigners who aren't properly dressed even when they are just cycling past temple. Give it a rest fruit Nazi's.

Have you ever considered you may be in the wrong country?

[KevinHunt]

If you started out with the assumption that this is a holy site and the people administering it are holy people with high principles, you might not be using words like 'con', 'rip off', 'racist' or 'milking the farang cash-cow'. Try not assuming the worst. They may possibly be holier than you. There's a thought!!

[wolf5370]

If you started out with the assumption that this is a holy site and the people administering it are holy people with high principles, you might not be using words like 'con', 'rip off', 'racist' or 'milking the farang cash-cow'. Try not assuming the worst. They may possibly be holier than you. There's a thought!!

OK, Kev, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, there is just no point in a discussion on a list of words (some not even in my post I might add) plucked at random from a post whilst completely ignoring the context of their use of the meaning of the content. May you be lucky enough to always believe that 'higher beings' are welcome to your cash simply because they demand it.

[Puwa]

I always thought that temple was cheesy, despite its fame and great location. Like most points of interest, it has degenerated into an amusement park/ flea market/ fast-food stand.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it seems entirely plausible that Thai's just don't want to encourage non Asian looking foreigners to visit and be seen in their precious temples. I would imagine it ruins the appearance and experience for them the same way it affects other xenophobic and racist cultures and subgroups around the world.

The thing that annoys me most is that the fruit lady outside on the street(doi suthep) will try to ignore foreigners who aren't properly dressed even when they are just cycling past temple. Give it a rest fruit Nazi's.

Have you ever considered you may be in the wrong country?

wrong country for what? getting temple admission discounts or snappy fruit cart service? or were you thinking of something else?