Do You Run A Genuine Version Of Windows?

[tracer0]

If you are using a pirated copy of windows your system is wide open.... and WILL be compromised, no matter what firewall or anti virus software you use. Is it worth it ?

If you are using a REAL copy of windows your system is ALSO wide open.... and WILL be compromised, no matter what firewall or anti virus software you use. Is it worth it ?

Answer likely NO....

OK to be honest, if you get an original CD you can at least be partly sure nobody messed around with it but how in one case 5 keys, all real, ended up with 3 on a MS list not working AND me getting silly answers about them being pirated etc.

[tracer0]

M$ does not revoke a license in a legal sense but they can and do block re-activation of the OS, which amounts to the same!

We have an older PC which started out with legit OEM XP Pro. Over time it had hardware problems including MB, all were solved and replaced for free since under warranty, but eventually M$ no longer allowed re-activation of the OS!!! guess on what this PC is running now.

opalhort

Have you considered that if you used a copy of a real CD with your OLD serial number might have reactivated??

[tracer0]

We are wanting to but genuine versions of the following - does anyone know the best place to buy from i.e. that they really are genuine and the best price ?

Thanks

Microsoft exchange server 2003 10 users

Windows 2003 Server standard edition OEM 10 users

Windows 7 corporate license for 10 users with both XP and win 7 media

First one question :

OEM you mean you buy Hardware as well??

Ok, I can ask the question this morning but you should consider if your company can get them from the USA... There are some special offers there and from what I saw I wasn't watching them...

Also you HAVE 10 users or you want it to be usable by 10 users.

Who installs them? NOT me as I am now properly retired...

As you saw from my posts I was really annoyed by being told the 3 of 5 cd s were supposed to be faked and leaked.

They had the cd's but serials were locked up... I personally installed them and while you can extract them from systems, the guys in this office really only use their windows for proper business as far as I know!

[cdnvic]

If you are using a REAL copy of windows your system is ALSO wide open.... and WILL be compromised, no matter what firewall or anti virus software you use.

Absolutely false. I have yet to be compromised at home or at work since Windows98. People who take the needed steps to protect themselves and use their heads will more than likely be just fine. In fact out of the many infected machines I've fixed the client was always asking for it with either an un-patched system, a lousy (usually AVG) antivirus, or no firewall.

[tracer0]

All this talk of pirated Windows causing viruses and whatnot is just rubbish. The operating system (real or fake) and its working state is only governed by the user and their actions. Therefore a Windows OS (fake or real) with a virus will act the same way. Viruses do not discriminate according to whether you paid for the OS or not. Any half decent PC Technician can install a fake version of Windows that actually works. If you buy a PC with a pirated version installed by someone who does not know what they are doing then it is your fault in the end because you did not check it yourself. Sure, genuine software is obviously better than fake purely for the 'I actually paid for this' factor, but if it was not so expensive to the majority of users to buy a license then maybe more people would go genuine.

************

Partly right and wrong: there are copies around as good as the real programs but if you want something FIXED, the problems start.

************

Ian

+1

My thoughts exactly!

However, I always advise people to be wary of the software that is (pre)installed onto PCs bought or serviced in Thailand. More often than not, they'll run into problems -- especially if the operating system on the computer came from a ghost image rather than a fresh installation. My advice: Learn to setup Windows yourself or have a tech-savvy friend do it for you.

********

totally true and I always install from the good cd I have.

Its a pain though!

Last time I did it and I think I myself have to do it again soon, it took 3 days to get all those damned updates back in...

********

But, other than Windows and the like, where can one buy legal software here in Thailand. I've yet to find it...guess I'm not looking in the right places. For example, Corel Photopaint or Dreameweaver?

Yeah really...

Where the heck can one buy LEGIT software in this country? Since piracy is so rampant here, a lot of folks I know are quite hesitant to shell out their hard-earned $$ on software -- fearing it might turn out to be 'pirated'. And to be honest, I can't really blame them. If you've lived here long enough, you'd probably feel the same way.

Check the internet.... USA obviously!

[tracer0]

What's the price of a genuine windows license here? I only paid 7500 Baht for the whole computer including monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse, so I'd be loath to spend 3500 Baht on just a new OS

Cost price is about 5700 baht but remember there are end copies (real ones) of XP going around at I think something like $100.

That depends which Windows version you want, if you just want XP home, you can get a genuine for 3500 THB. And as I posted somewhere you can almost get Vista for the same now after the distributors almost halved the price this week to get rid of Vista before Windows 7 arrives.

As I mentioned somewhere I donot fix anything now except my OWN computer. Prices are collapsing but I have to ask to find out latest... real sw only.

oops one mistake: my kids have computers really bought laptops: I haven't checked them to see whats inside...

[tracer0]

If I could make a business out of fixing people's computers then I'd be very happy.

Just need customers...

I am glad someone else agrees with me. I am sick of all the press blaming pirated software when really it is the user at fault. If pirated software was really so bad then people would actually pay for real software. The fact is that pirated or not the software will install, look, run and feel the same in most cases. The company I work for once bought Symantec EndPoint from a reputable company and that came on copied media (with a stuck on label to look real).

Ian

not totally true but almost...

Most of the users, experts or not, get caught. We all have been having silly things happen with the machine...

I have, and believe me I have been using them since we had mainframes with Telex tape input and solid core...

Some things are avoidable: after windows is in: next things to install and that's before verification of serial number and internet:

install AV and firewall.

Business : its possible but there are too many farangs around doing repairs in their spare time for bar-cost...

And believe me, alcohol and computers have a problem when mixed...

[tracer0]

If you are using a REAL copy of windows your system is ALSO wide open.... and WILL be compromised, no matter what firewall or anti virus software you use.

Absolutely false. I have yet to be compromised at home or at work since Windows98. People who take the needed steps to protect themselves and use their heads will more than likely be just fine. In fact out of the many infected machines I've fixed the client was always asking for it with either an un-patched system, a lousy (usually AVG) antivirus, or no firewall.

In a way true as all it says is that in the end its the user who controls the system. What gets put in sw wise to prevent it...

But that's always the case whatever is used....

Doesn't matter if it is a real windows or a fake, the same user will get it BOTH ways. I have seen it happen too often. If you had been in sw support, some users ALWAYS get the problems...

[mattcodes]

A genuine OS is a must, you can not be sure of the integrity of install if you use a pirated copy and you can't be sure availability of updates going forward, I bet most of people here that say "what issue with updates?" etc.. dont realised they have a timer reset (check msconfig --> Startup) and a hacked WGA install or service. If you're base OS is compromised no amount of anti viruses or firewall can guarantee you going forward.

Business : its possible but there are too many farangs around doing repairs in their spare time for bar-cost...

There are too many people who dont know what they are doing doing repairs, install bad OS and no good software only to be back to square 1 a month later, for example you only have to choose any bar that has > 5 concurrent customers that are falang, and walk-in and talk about some issue you have your PC and voila you have 4 so called experts telling you do this, do that, download this... Doesnt happen in other industries..

Edited September 18, 2009 by mattcodes

[Phil Conners]

^ Sorry but that is really nonsense. It is possible to borrow a friends original installation CD and install that with a fake key. That would make it pirate software and yet it is 100% original data used. It is also easy to get the MS updates with a fake key. Don't believe the FUD.

[wolf5370]

A genuine OS is a must, you can not be sure of the integrity of install if you use a pirated copy and you can't be sure availability of updates going forward, I bet most of people here that say "what issue with updates?" etc.. dont realised they have a timer reset (check msconfig --> Startup) and a hacked WGA install or service. If you're base OS is compromised no amount of anti viruses or firewall can guarantee you going forward.

Business : its possible but there are too many farangs around doing repairs in their spare time for bar-cost...

There are too many people who dont know what they are doing doing repairs, install bad OS and no good software only to be back to square 1 a month later, for example you only have to choose any bar that has > 5 concurrent customers that are falang, and walk-in and talk about some issue you have your PC and voila you have 4 so called experts telling you do this, do that, download this... Doesnt happen in other industries..

Not sure that guys giving you advise in a pub infers they do repairs for bar money - or at all. Some of us have some very good knowledge of computers, have built are own machines from the days when it was actually hard work (jumpers et al), have worked in IT for many years (possibly several decades) that don't do it as a job, but will help some guy distraught in a pub that's been sold a line by Somchai's PC Repairs. This is a good thing, surely? You will get idiots both in and out of the field, sure, but don't knock friendly advise Thailand's expat community is built on it.

I agree about the integrity of builds though - most of these are via a ghost image and drivers for your hardware are bunged on afterwards. M$ gets to know the serial numbers, updates WGA, and wham the next update you do/SP may lock out your system.

This statement " no amount of anti viruses or firewall can guarantee you going forward" is true regardless of the the OS legitimacy though. Both are updated retrospectively, they need to discover the virus to recognise it - heuristic recognition can be a real pain as legit software (especially for developers) can be picked up - just try using something like PureBasic that compiles to executables - Antivir heuristics doesn't let the compiler run as it hates the object code! (of course you can just click Ignore each time, but its still a pain).

[wolf5370]

^ Sorry but that is really nonsense. It is possible to borrow a friends original installation CD and install that with a fake key. That would make it pirate software and yet it is 100% original data used. It is also easy to get the MS updates with a fake key. Don't believe the FUD.

Phil, there are two points there. Firstly, if you used a fake key there is a chance that it may be blocked for updates if it is well used and well known (of course you could just use your mates key too). Second, I think he was referring to the build itself rather than the software. The builds are not usually installed but copied from a ghost image. If that ghost image is floored, so is your new machine. They often play with the OS on the original machine to cripple WGA, turn off updates and add software (Office and Photoshop being the usual as well as MSN type games). A virus or back-door could also be copied over.

Sometimes the OS CD's (OEM) are locked to certain machines and will not install on other machines - and all too often now a days, therte is no CD given at all, just a hidden partition for reinstalling.

As M$ upgrades WGA, we may find that updates no longer work and we either have to cope with it or hope for a new cracked version (and hop its not some jerk putting up a trojan instead).

[Phil Conners]

^ I was referring to the statement "you can not be sure of the integrity of install if you use a pirated copy". My point was that you can if you use the original installation media (or a copy of it that you're sure wasn't compromised).

Edited September 18, 2009 by Phil Conners

[Spoonman]

I have win7 RC on my lappy and win7 RTM on my PC, am i a "pirate" ......... MEH.

[Supernova]

It's common practice in Pantip to apply generic ghost images to new or serviced PCs instead of a fresh installation. Although I strongly disapprove of this method, I can understand why they do it. Installing a ghost image isn't time-consuming, which is all that really matters (in a business sense). Less time to setup = more computers out the door, so to speak. Good for Thai business, bad for end-users. 'nuff said.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Supernova

[mattcodes]

^ I was referring to the statement "you can not be sure of the integrity of install if you use a pirated copy". My point was that you can if you use the original installation media (or a copy of it that you're sure wasn't compromised).

Fine, but at what point do you consider it pirated? Whats your next step with the media? As far I can tell Microsoft don't FreeActivationForEveryone.exe or WGADisableButUpdatesWork.exe or FixForLifeForFree.exe? Once you layer on timer activation reset or wga crack etc you're at the same position as the pirated media you're just doing it in two steps. You might be lucky in that your friends key or the one your found on google has worked but I've seen many times before that key revocation will affect your availability of udpates delivered via Windows Update, there might be a way to download all the patches free if your time is infinite though without WGA firing..

Now if you have the media and you a volume license key that is currently not blacklisted then sure, but I doubt it.

As for updates I bet they'll stop eventually

Edited September 18, 2009 by mattcodes

[Supernova]

You might be lucky in that your friends key or the one your found on google has worked but I've seen many times before that key revocation will affect your availability of udpates delivered via Windows Update, there might be a way to download all the patches free if your time is infinite though without WGA firing..

Now if you have the media and you a volume license key that is currently not blacklisted then sure, but I doubt it.

As for updates I bet they'll stop eventually

No they don't.

A revoked or blacklisted key will prevent you from accessing the Windows Update site through a web browser, but it won't stop updates from being delivered via the Automatic Updates feature within Windows -- FACT. Since no validation check is performed, a pirated copy of Windows can still obtain updates regularly through AU. To put it simply, WGA is irrelevant when it comes to Automatic Updates.

I've worked with many pirated Windows PCs over the years. You'd be surprised to learn many pirated Windows PCs are actually up-to-date with the latest fixes and patches, thanks to AU. To say WGA blocks (automatic) updates, WGA does this and that -- is a load of hogwash. All WGA does is notify the user he/she is running a non-genuine copy of Windows.

[mattcodes]

but it won't stop updates from being delivered via the Automatic Updates feature within Windows -- FACT

People who say FACT after everything are like people who do the physical quotation marks after everything, like billy conolly says its human instinct to want to snap their fingers off.. But presumably you've ran wireshack or other TCP/IP monitor to verify that no product key or hardware id combo is sent with automatic updates and thus can never be revoked as I struggle to find this FACT. I admit I havent...

FACT? Do you work for the Voile (MS)? No... Are referring to updates between major service packs, have you attempted to do an upgrade between SP1 and SP2, or SP2 and SP3? Mileage will vary, your experience might differ but I think (not FACT) that you might be being a little prematuerly naive.

I might be wrong. FACT

Edited September 18, 2009 by mattcodes

[Travel2003]

I always buy originals.

Whatever it is.

A colleague of mine bought a brand new H.Packard PC in the biggest store in Pantip Plaza last year.

When all set up and online, and he tried to update the windows, the message appeared he had a copy.

I asked him how this was possible.

He told me when he had decided to buy that particular pc, they took the machine to the back room to install the OS (Windows XP).

I just said, are you stupid???

He didnt answer as we both knew.

PS. He is actually not stupid, but he was that day.

[phetaroi]

A colleague of mine bought a brand new H.Packard PC in the biggest store in Pantip Plaza last year.

When all set up and online, and he tried to update the windows, the message appeared he had a copy.

I asked him how this was possible.

He told me when he had decided to buy that particular pc, they took the machine to the back room to install the OS (Windows XP).

I just said, are you stupid???

He didnt answer as we both knew.

PS. He is actually not stupid, but he was that day.

Okay, so around October 1 I am buying exactly that -- a desktop HP PC...one rather upscale. What should I do regarding just that...getting real Windows software installed on it.

Thanks.

[Supernova]

but it won't stop updates from being delivered via the Automatic Updates feature within Windows -- FACT

People who say FACT after everything are like people who do the physical quotation marks after everything, like billy conolly says its human instinct to want to snap their fingers off.. But presumably you've ran wireshack or other TCP/IP monitor to verify that no product key or hardware id combo is sent with automatic updates and thus can never be revoked as I struggle to find this FACT. I admit I havent...

FACT? Do you work for the Voile (MS)? No... Are referring to updates between major service packs, have you attempted to do an upgrade between SP1 and SP2, or SP2 and SP3? Mileage will vary, your experience might differ but I think (not FACT) that you might be being a little prematuerly naive.

I might be wrong. FACT

FYI - I rarely use the word "FACT" to emphasize a statement, so try relax a bit...

Your 'presumptions' about my packet sniffing habits are also incorrect. I have never used any software to monitor data that is exchanged between my PC and Microsoft update servers. I don't need to; and quite frankly, I could care less about the information being sent in the process. The fact that a pirated Windows PC is able to receive regular updates via the Automatic Updates feature speaks for itself. The updates I'm referring to aren't limited to hotfixes, but apply to rollups and service packs as well. And no, I don't think I'm being "prematurely naive" as you so politely put it.

Please read the following article. Scroll down about 1/3 of the page; the information shown there will confirm everything I've said.

Description of Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA)

[nikster]

Okay, so around October 1 I am buying exactly that -- a desktop HP PC...one rather upscale. What should I do regarding just that...getting real Windows software installed on it.

Go to a reputable store, an official HP dealer, ask them if the machine price includes Windows. If they say yes, good. If they say no, ask them if they offer a model that comes with Windows. I'd ask for a model that comes with Windows, rather than asking to add on Windows to a model that comes without - important distinction. Prices are set by the manufacturer, and in Thailand there's always some that come with Windows (genuine) and ones that come without.

Those that come without, the dealer will, in their Thai way, ensure you that they can install Windows for you and all the programs too. They're Thai. They will say yes to everything you say. But in all likelihood it won't be genuine, it will be a pirate copy.

Back when I bought an Acer laptop, I got the catalog from Acer, and there were some models that had "Windows XP Pro" or whatever listed on their features, and others that didn't. Very easy to pick one with Windows. And as I mentioned before, it really only makes a very small difference in the end price. So get your hands on an official HP catalog. Or check their thai website.

[nikster]

BTW about automatic updates and WGA - Microsoft once considered turning off AU for pirated copies, but then considered it too risky to leave so many machines out there without security fixes. They would end up with literally tens of millions of compromised machines more, and those will then go and try to infect the "genuine" machines as well (as once a computer is infected, it downloads updates and new viruses).

So it's safe to say they won't turn off AU.

What they will do though is make it more and more annoying with the WGA popups and whatnot. Microsoft has also, in the past, masqueraded updates to WGA as important security fixes. That way they can get new versions of WGA on your machine via AU, without your consent.

[Supernova]

BTW about automatic updates and WGA - Microsoft once considered turning off AU for pirated copies, but then considered it too risky to leave so many machines out there without security fixes. They would end up with literally tens of millions of compromised machines more, and those will then go and try to infect the "genuine" machines as well (as once a computer is infected, it downloads updates and new viruses).

So it's safe to say they won't turn off AU.

What they will do though is make it more and more annoying with the WGA popups and whatnot. Microsoft has also, in the past, masqueraded updates to WGA as important security fixes. That way they can get new versions of WGA on your machine via AU, without your consent.

+1

I remember reading about it and was a hot topic of discussion on many tech forums. Thanks for pointing this out.

[EffectiveAnger]

Okay, so around October 1 I am buying exactly that -- a desktop HP PC...one rather upscale. What should I do regarding just that...getting real Windows software installed on it.

Thanks.

Don't trust anything or anyone at Pantip Plaza! I've been dealing with that place for so many years and take it from me, these places/people are not to be trusted! It's one of the most aggrivating things about this country - the lack of relabilty, faith and trust in electrontics here. If I were you, I would order directly from HP. I bought from them directly years ago and had GREAT service. I trust them! If you can help it, don't buy one in Thailand. At least check out their website www.hp.com and see what is there before you shop around in Thailand. What software do you want - XP, Vista, Windows 7...? Windows 7 is not easy to get here!

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

My advice... don't buy a HP or any other brand-name machine at all. Decide for your dream-specs, then get someone whom you trust to buy the parts and build the machine for you. That way YOU decide what's in it and you get a hel_l of a lot more "bang for the buck". I regularly build "100,00 Baht computers" for 35,000 Baht and less, which incidentally come with a longer warranty as well (brand-name systems usually give you one year while home-built gives you between one year to life-time on the parts).

Then you only need to buy your favourite flavour of Windows independently - again it is your choice what goes on, XP Home to Vista Ultimate.

Best regards....

Thanh

[opalhort]

I only can second Thanh-BKK's post above!

Stay away from brand names!

Place an order with your trusted computer shop and have them assemble it. You save a lot of money and headache!

And get a much longer warranty on individual parts!

opalhort

[Naam]

I would NEVER use a copy I downloaded with Piratebay, with Emule or bought in Pantip. This simply is not fair and it is a very severe criminal act not supported by the US government!!! What bad people must this be doing such bad things. Never trust them. NEVER!!! Please format their HDs if you find them!

and if you have like me 4 PCs and a laptop on a private network pay Bill Gates five times 7,000 Baht

[bkk_mike]

Real XP (that came with the laptop), and Windows 7 evaluation on my desktop. (Admittedly it did replace the original Pantip-installed XP Pro).

The only driver issues I've had with Windows 7 relate to getting Audio drivers. i.e. I've installed it on 4 PCs (mine and the 3 kids), and had to manually download an audio driver on mine - which has the newest motherboard, and can't get the beta driver for one of the kids to work. (for the motherboard sound... - the motherboard manufacturer - Asus - doesn't have a Windows 7 driver, and the chipset manufacturers beta driver doesn't want to install, but it's the oldest motherboard of the four - Asus P4B266)

i.e. It seems like hardware that's 1-4 years old, Microsoft included drivers, but older hardware, and very new hardware, you might have sound problems. AM planning on trying an install in my laptop, but think I'll do it by putting in a new hard drive, so that I can easily switch back if it doesn't work out.

[Supernova]

Real XP (that came with the laptop), and Windows 7 evaluation on my desktop. (Admittedly it did replace the original Pantip-installed XP Pro).

The only driver issues I've had with Windows 7 relate to getting Audio drivers. i.e. I've installed it on 4 PCs (mine and the 3 kids), and had to manually download an audio driver on mine - which has the newest motherboard, and can't get the beta driver for one of the kids to work. (for the motherboard sound... - the motherboard manufacturer - Asus - doesn't have a Windows 7 driver, and the chipset manufacturers beta driver doesn't want to install, but it's the oldest motherboard of the four - Asus P4B266)

i.e. It seems like hardware that's 1-4 years old, Microsoft included drivers, but older hardware, and very new hardware, you might have sound problems. AM planning on trying an install in my laptop, but think I'll do it by putting in a new hard drive, so that I can easily switch back if it doesn't work out.

Vista drivers and in some cases, XP drivers, also work on Windows 7 x86. Nvidia audio is a good example of this. Windows 64-bit on the other hand, won't allow anything but 'digitally signed' (WHQL) drivers.