Where Is A Good Thai Language School In Pattaya ?

[SoftWater]

In the vain hope that we might avoid a Walen Nuclear Attack, I'd like to offer a few observations on Meg's post from both a teacher's and a language learner's perspective (I've been teaching for ten years, and learning Thai for about half that).

Situational language learning (the sort Meg describes as how to say 'my name is...', I'm from...' 'I'd like two glasses of beer'...etc) gives students short term satisfaction, but if your aim is to be proficient in a language, it is actually a pretty inefficient way to learn. If you spend 3 months learning fixed phrases you will be able to use them pretty confidently for sure. What you won't be able to do is get much past that on your own. You are like a machine with a fixed program, and the limits of both your ability to speak and understand are fixed by the phrases you have learned. Since in real life people do not respond with the same pattern that you learned in a classroom, you will often be able to start a conversation and then have no resources to take it any further.

On the other hand, if you start learning a language from the very beginning by learning the basic building blocks, you may start slower, but you will be able to say and respond far better and in many more conversational situations. From Meg's description, and from what I know of the Callan method, Walen takes this second approach, and for that they are to be commended.

Although I have no wish to 'pick' at Meg, and I respect her opinions, I'd like to just make the observation that however good her Thai is now, after 7 months at ProLanguage, that ability is heavily built on her several years of experience with the Thai language beforehand, where many of the elements that now make her so 'fluent' were put in place. Unless I misunderstood her post, Meg says she could already understand most of the news on Thai television before she went to either Walen or ProLanguage; that, in my view, is a pretty advanced level of comprehension. Whatever she has learned since then - again, as I think she says herself - is less vocab and structure (which she appears to have acquired prior to Walen) and more confidence and pronunciation. Her situation, though common and not that different from my own, may not be the same as most people who are new to the Thai language and looking for a school for the first time with long-term proficiency in mind.

Of more concern to me, if I were a prospective student, would be Meg's perceptions of how she and others felt at the two schools. Fear, embarrassment, and frustration are all common experiences of learning a new language, and the most dangerous enemies of motivation, continuing study and success. Part of what a good school or teacher does is find ways for students to acquire and practice their new language while ameliorating these as much as possible. From what Meg says, it appears that ProLanguage use common (and common sense) activities embedded in their lessons to help students get over, ignore, or defeat these natural emotional responses. That, to get us finally back to the question asked in the OP, is one sign of a good school - in Pattaya or anywhere else.

Softwater

(p.s. Sorry, a personal - ie., anecdotal - observation: Every Japanese 'foreigner' in Thailand I have met can speak Thai remarkably well; they had all been to school for periods considerably shorter than any Western foreigner I have met with a similar ability. I don't know if there is some symmetery between their language and Thai that makes it easy to learn (as there obviously is with Khmer and Lao), but unless you are a Japanese student, I wouldn't take Meg's example of the remarkable progress of her Japanese friend as indicative of what you might achieve if you're a Westerner)

Edited October 4, 2009 by SoftWater

[kriswillems]

Pro language was the best language school I went to in Pattaya, for the simple reason all others where really bad.

90% of the language schools in Pattaya don't have any books or only have a beginners book. Their teachers are people that can speak English but have not much experience teaching Thai.

The good points of Pro Language Pattaya are:

- They have many books and many levels, so if you plan to study long this school is a good option.

- Their books have a nice, easy to read layout.

- The teacher I got had a really good pronunciation and she actively listened to me and corrected my pronunciation. Of all schools I went to, the schools in BKK included, the teacher at Pro language Pattaya was the best teacher if it comes to teaching how to pronounce Thai.

- The rooms are clean, quiet, and the airco works.

The bad points were:

- The book contained to little information on Thai sentence structure.

- The book was not very thick, so I finished the book before the course was finished. After that we switched to free talking, which I don't like.

- The book had many mistakes

I think the language schools in BKK with a union based teaching method are better than pro language, therefore I moved (back) to BKK. I like to be pushed to my limit. The teacher doesn't need to be kind or fun. My teacher is Bangkok was an older lady. She was the director of the school and she went very fast, so pushed me to my limit. The teacher at pro language was too kind for me, she didn't go fast enough.

Edited October 4, 2009 by kriswillems

[smint]

Thanks Meg, and Softwater for the very useful responses.

Just a question, Meg, you are talking about Pattaya branches for both Pro and Walen right?

Anyway, I am just thinking both methods have its pros and cons and are not suited to every nationality or every type of learner. I am sure the owners will now come to the defence of their school now.

But anyway, my opinion of Thai language learning (in my short stay here, so pardon me if I'm wrong) is that Asians, particularly Japanese, might tend to learn faster than farangs, meaning, Westerners. There are many similar words in Thai and Japanese, as well as Thai and Chinese, and Thai and many various Chinese dialects.

I believe it is the same as other Asian languages as well, as they come from the same language families, or are "close" language families. There are also no spaces in other "script" languages like Chinese and Japanese, which makes things easier for Asian learners. And then there are the tones in these languages which they will be able to cope better than Westerners.

To be fair to Walen, I think different school cater to different needs. Pro Language might give "instant satisfaction", so to speak, as you can see the results immediately, while Walen can be extremely frustrating at first, particularly to Western learners who are unfamiliar with tonal languages as well as complex characters as an 'alphabet'. (But no, I'm not against Pro as I believe the method used and the games are extremely good as well.)

Perhaps something Walen could improve on is to "educate" customers and students looking to pick up Thai here on its method, clearly and succintly. Walen's method is definitely a different, unique method, and not everyone believes in it, and not everyone can adapt to it. Best to let the consumer decide before they walk out, slam the table in frustration as it's not for them. Macwalen, do you not think it will be better to explain things before asking people to fork out a few thousand baht, or tens of thousands of baht and then find out it's not for them?

They will definitely be very frustrated, and the first place they will vent their anger might be here, which has, erm... tens of thousands of pageviews. And the resulting fiasco in-house as well as online will not be good for the morale of the teachers and other students, no?

I believe many students are baffled and walk out in frustration because they do not understand and appreciate the methods, and it does not help when the teachers don't speak English that fluently, to add to their frustration and anger. (You can't prevent students from looking down on the teachers if they speak bad English, because the students there paid good money to the school, and many are farangs who speak excellent English, thus it has to be subject to scrutiny and come under criticism if the teachers' English isn't good and can't explain that well.)

I believe if Walen expects students to jump right into page 80 even when they first sign up, then they have to at least give a call to the student a week or two before to get them to finish learning the consonants, by themselves, and not soak through the whole lesson and only absorbing 3% of it. And please, tell the students what page they are starting on.

But for Walen's method, perhaps it is just like how a child learns when they're young, they don't learn much basic conversation in school, but learn the alphabet through names of animals and objects, and slowly start to learn words which might not even be used in everyday life! Think buffalo, yacht, Chinese junk, pot lid, elephant... Walen doesn't teach these but it teaches some basic sentence structures and repeats it again and again, although it might not be commonly used on the street. But the child picks up everyday conversation from home and elsewhere on the street.

For me, I believe that you don't necessarily have to go to school to learn basic conversation, just do some homework yourself and then open up your mind, speak to people on the streets, or in the office, or in the factory, or whatever field you work in - then you are applying the language skills yourself, learning how to form sentences yourself, adapting what you learnt to your own situation and this is true learning. And then these two elements will just go hand in hand and fit perfectly... One thing I'm sure is you can't possibly learn a language without doing your own homework, and the more you do, the more rewards you get. It will better complement your studies in whatever school you go to. Well perhaps I might be wrong but this is my humble opinion here after my short stay in Thailand

Edited October 4, 2009 by smint

[MacWalen]

A lot of interesting observations, I will disappoint you dear Softwater , there will be no nuclear attack. There are some statements that are not correct but those are opinions and people are entitled to their opinions. Meg, thanks for your posts. Let me know if you would like to continue on book 2, we have more options now. Well written and informative posts. Perhaps there is also some issues I did not know about. I encourage all Walen students to communicate with the school we we can address any issues that bother you.

As I stated before we aim at 100% customer satisfaction but it is rather impossible, all Walen can do is to do our best.

I enjoyed all posts, thanks.

Walen School - it it bothers you it bothers us.

www.thaiwalen.com

[MacWalen]

Macwalen, you didn't answer my questions.

Are the 180 hours spread over 14 months or 12 months?

I always thought it was that 180/hours per year is the minimum amount of hours a school should organize the offer to be able the offer non-immigrant-ED visas to a student.

In case you teach 180 hours during 1 year I guess you use a schedule similar to this:

time 0: enter Thailand with ED visa

time 80 days: first extension

time 160 days:second extension

time 240 days: third extension

time 330 days: fourth extension, valid until 420 days = 14 month

... so you let the student apply for a 3 months extension, while the student has only 1 month of study time left ....

That sounds very much like a visa business to me although it might be only the edge of what is legally possible.

I am only guessing here, because you didn't answer my question.

I will not follow your calculations as we advise our students what to do and how to do. 24,960 Baht for 14 months for 180 lessons. What exactly is there to explain?

Respectfully, Walen School

[pluto_manibo]

Thanks Meg for the informative post!

[kriswillems]

Macwalen, you didn't answer my questions.

Are the 180 hours spread over 14 months or 12 months?

I will not follow your calculations as we advise our students what to do and how to do. 24,960 Baht for 14 months for 180 lessons. What exactly is there to explain?

Respectfully, Walen School

My question was (third time now): are the 180 lesson spread over 12 months or 14 months?

The reason I ask this question is because you talked about 14 months visa assistance, not about 14 months lessons.

I hope questions about the legality of your ED-visa don't disturb you. I think most of your students want to get their visa in a legal way.

Edited October 5, 2009 by kriswillems

[SoftWater]

I don't suppose Kris or anyone else happens to have checked out and compared ProLanguage in both BKK and Pattaya have they?

The reason I ask is because from what Kris says, PL in Pattaya doesn't sound very suitable for me, but what Rionoir says elsewhere on this forum (i.e., that PL BKK is similar to Chula but less intense) sounds like just what I need. Surely its the same material in both branches??

I know, I know,...I should get my a*se down there and take a look myself!

Edited October 6, 2009 by SoftWater

[MacWalen]

Kris, everything is fine, don't worry. We are ED visa specialists. You can talk about our way of teaching but about ED visas I am an expert, if you want to be our customer, please come and Walen will take good care of you.

Walen School - need a visa? Think Walen

www.thaiwalen.com

[pattaya_girl]

Macwalen - are the 180 lesson spread over 12 months or 14 months?

I would also like to know just out of curiosity.

[smint]

We are ED visa specialists. You can talk about our way of teaching but about ED visas I am an expert...

Uh-oh. The thread says "Where is a Good Thai Language School in Pattaya"... So I'm just wondering, does the school focus more on teaching or visa applications? Would be relevant to this thread too... And would the visas thing affect the quality of teaching or the visa issues are separate from the teachers? Just wondering, thanks.

[MacWalen]

Yes, I agree, this thread is getting of the topic not by my making.

[pattaya_girl]

So, you won't answer?

Your answer might be helpful to people deciding which School to use.

[puuchai299]

We are ED visa specialists. You can talk about our way of teaching but about ED visas I am an expert...

So does this mean its ok to talk about your way of teaching?but ED visa experts don't like to join in talk about visas and share there expertise? Very simple question seems to be being asked the most is How does your course run over the 14 month period,i'm no ED visa expert but McWalen is,so is this Walen language school or Walen SECRET academy?

[pattaya_girl]

It is a simple question asked by a few people, that just needs a simple answer !!!

Its a simple as that.

[kriswillems]

Macwalen,

If you can't answer or systematically refuse to answer (for some mysterious reason) a simple question like over how many months the 180 lessons are spread, why would you expect anyone to come to study at your school?

(PS. I know why you can't answer this question on a public forum).

Edited October 6, 2009 by kriswillems

[MacWalen]

Walen school will not mind if you take your course over the period of 14 months, but if it is not too much trouble we would prefer if you could finish your course in 12 months.

We are flexible at Walen. In every case you will get good service both in relation to learning Thai as well as with the ED visa assistance.

Walen School - flexible approach

www.thaiwalen.com

[kriswillems]

Great, and if I take the 180 hours over 14 months, I still can get a ED visa right?

[MacWalen]

We would prefer in 12 months, but if you cannot make it within that period of time then 14 months will be OK too. Of course ED visa assistance will be provided.

Edited October 6, 2009 by macwalen

[pattaya_girl]

Macwalen, Thankyou for your answer.

If someone pays for 180 hours over a period of 14 months, how many hours will it be per week?

[MacWalen]

Macwalen, Thankyou for your answer.

If someone pays for 180 hours over a period of 14 months, how many hours will it be per week?

The same as now, at least 4 lessons a week plus homework.

Edited October 6, 2009 by macwalen

[puuchai299]

So if someone joins your courses,would it be a requirement to have homework?if so what exactly would the homework involve?do you have a set requirement for homework?

[pattaya_girl]

Hi, thank you for your reply.

So that is equal to around 4 hours per week?

Please correct me if I am wrong but that would work out to a period of 45 weeks, which is even under 1 year, so how would it be spread out over 14 months?

[smint]

On the topic of homework.. I would like to know how much time commitment for homework (or other learning) is required off-class? Thank you and cheers.

[kriswillems]

Hi, thank you for your reply.

So that is equal to around 4 hours per week?

Please correct me if I am wrong but that would work out to a period of 45 weeks, which is even under 1 year, so how would it be spread out over 14 months?

Also don't get it....

[SoftWater]

Hi, thank you for your reply.

So that is equal to around 4 hours per week?

Please correct me if I am wrong but that would work out to a period of 45 weeks, which is even under 1 year, so how would it be spread out over 14 months?

Also don't get it....

I suspect that what macwalen means is that you can study 180 hours or 45 weeks spread out over 14 months (but they prefer 12 months), so lots of long holidays and one way or another (extension or whatnot), you will be allowed to legally stay in Thailand for 14 months. For this service, you will be charged 24k+ baht by Walen. Oh, and you have to pay for the textbook, too, if I read it properly. (Beach trips and what not during your 7 to 15 week holiday periods are at your own expense!).

Is that an accurate summary?

Edited October 7, 2009 by SoftWater

[MacWalen]

Hi, thank you for your reply.

So that is equal to around 4 hours per week?

Please correct me if I am wrong but that would work out to a period of 45 weeks, which is even under 1 year, so how would it be spread out over 14 months?

Also don't get it....

I suspect that what macwalen means is that you can study 180 hours or 45 weeks spread out over 14 months (but they prefer 12 months), so lots of long holidays and one way or another (extension or whatnot), you will be allowed to legally stay in Thailand for 14 months. For this service, you will be charged 24k+ baht by Walen. Oh, and you have to pay for the textbook, too, if I read it properly. (Beach trips and what not during your 7 to 15 week holiday periods are at your own expense!).

Is that an accurate summary?

Yes, it is. It is a legitimate way of learning Thai and a legitimate way of obtaining visa.

[anothertorres]

this thread is weird. anyway, i like my school because i like my teacher. i take lessons to learn thai, no need for visa. go out and meet your potential teachers, visit all the schools, i think they all offer at least an hour free with the next available teacher. find someone that fits your style. tell them right off the bat. i said listen, i need to know how to talk to the locals. i don't care about talking to royalty but, i'll learn the words. but what i requested (directly to my teacher, very important) was i need to find a balance between being able to watch the news and being able to talk to my friends.

in the end, it's all about listening skills. anyone can memorize words and tones. it's as simple as deciding to actually do it and stick to it. what becomes most important is how well you can listen and understand. you'll long know how to answer or respond by the time you're at a decent listening and comprehending capacity.

then again, if you're like those jokers who go to school and learn next to nothing than what is already available for free on the internet, then find the cheapest place possible.

and lastly... there is nothing more rewarding than seeing your own progression as time goes by. and nothing is more powerful at convincing yourself to keep at it. speaking thai is just as much a challenge as say playing a video game. when you're good enough, go to a bar and buy a girl a couple drinks. 60baht a drink and you've got a night of local lessons. works for women too, i'm sure

Edited October 7, 2009 by anothertorres