Should I Call This Racism

[henryalleman]

When people talked and wrote about racism towards foreigners of European origin I always denied it, and called it pure fantasy. But yesterday I was confronted it by myself

Here my story.

Yesterday afternoon I was making a small tour around Pakkret folowing the banks of the Chappaya river. I saw an billboard about Suan Thip restaurant. Always interresting to discover new places I decided to take a look, and indeed it was a very nice resraurant located in a beautifill park with several inner and open air privat rooms and dinner was cooked on the table. Its seems rather exclusive. I noticed that besides the restaurant there was an appartement building also located in the park with a river view but is was as usual blocked by security.

When I approached the security and asked him some where I could have some informatio about the place to rent or buy an appartment.

He told me bluntly that no foreigners were allowed to live there. I asked him why, did they disliked or hate foreigners. He did not even replied. I'm not the kind of man who give up very easy so I keep on trying to get some reaction from him(in a very polite way) At last some other boy runned into the building and came back with some brochure. .

The minimum size of one appartment was 330 square meter the maximum was 530 square meter.

Buying price was upto 45 million Baht for a 530 square appartment

So I presume they are very exclusive appartments for the realy Hi-So Thais and that they don't want foreigners in their present.

Came back home and asked my general to take a look with me. The moment she saw the entrance and the restaurant she knew that the restaurant and appartments belong to the Kitikachorn family and she refused to go even one step further because Kitikachorn was responsible for the brutal oppression of the student rebellion in 1974 where even a tank deliberatly run over a 13 year old boy who was trying to block the tank by laying in front of it. I think the older expats amongst us will recall the TV footage about the massacre of the students.

Also my Thai family who are Bangkokians and living in the area did'nt know this place or restaurant so it must be realy very exclusive. Also they were not amused by the blatant racism towards me.

So I can only conclude the real Upperclass in this country like to keep us out of there life.

I would like to emphazise that I was dressed polite(as always) and don't drive an old pick-up truck.

I just tell this story because I never expected to have this experience, and in fact I was schocked by it.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I am sorry you had the experience, but it isn;t that uncommon these days, Thai hi-so are often truly obnoxious and horrid excuses for people, and I speak from experience having once been married to one.

Thaksin's fault no doubt. Blame him

[Bakeman]

Every country has these places. Bottom line......DONT GO THERE........LOL

[Soutpeel]

Every country has these places. Bottom line......DONT GO THERE........LOL

Yeap...the world over...is it "racist" ? proberly...is it unique to Thailand...no way...

[Soutpeel]

I am sorry you had the experience, but it isn;t that uncommon these days, Thai hi-so are often truly obnoxious and horrid excuses for people, and I speak from experience having once been married to one.

Thaksin's fault no doubt. Blame him

I wonder if hi-so Cambodians/Vietnamese/Loations are just as bad,because i wouldnt be caught dead with a thai hi-so,truly obnoxious people,who ARE very racist.

I have to say they are not like true lovely thai people,as most are wonderful beautiful natural people,must be all that chinese blood in them

And who is being racist now....pot kettle black...

[GarryP]

Statusist?

[Soutpeel]

Statusist?

....closer to the truth...

[samran]

you had a good post there until you came up with the generalisation that all hi-so's are xenaphobic. In my experience it is the opposite. But there you go....

But you are right in a sense when it comes to property, many, many owners will not let to Indians, Koreans, Japanese, White people, depending on what bad experience they may have had with a particular tenant in the past.

[CarlBkk]

Henry, I would persue it for the sake of knowing the reason. You only spoke to the monkey, now contact the management office or whoever is in charge of lets. Bluff it and make out you want to meet to view an apartment and see what response you get and if it confirms your initial suspicions. If there are "none available" a quick search of Google should bring up if any are for sale/rent with agencies or on websites and have your wife call to see if they really are still available at this time.

The Thai hi-so are strange folk. On one hand they try to emulate the West with their phrases, education, holidays and materialism (but go tackily overboard) and on the other shun people who have less money and who are in any way different. The fakeness of these people when they meet each other is unbelievable and very wearing, as are their morals and ethics (treatment of maids, shopworkers and paramount desire to marry or befriend those with wealth above anything else).

Just yesterday there was a show on TV with a very rich Tomboy (40-something) in her palatial home with try-too-hard-to-look-like-Dynasty furnishings showing round the reporter while smooching her actress girlfriend. The girlfriend was absolutely stunning and no doubt not poor herself, but it was plainly obvious that because of this Tomboy's inherited wealth the actress was suddenly able to become lesbian for a while. With no shame as to her intentions. The tomboy openly said she liked to buy her girlfriends a car of their choice, in this case a BMW. The actress and so many like her are hardly different from the stereotypical sick buffalo girl, only that they are more beautiful and slightly less blatant...but for some unknown reason are not looked down on in society while a prostitute is. It's nearly accepted as normal because it's so common.

The normal and middle class Thais know that the rich or hi-so Thais will marry for more money than they have if possible, and when it fails will get a string of new partners based on the same criteria. No lessons learnt, it was the same two hundred years ago.

[anothertorres]

those dudes hate everyone. it's not just you.

[Soutpeel]

The Thai hi-so are strange folk. On one hand they try to emulate the West with their phrases, education, holidays and materialism (but go tackily overboard) and on the other shun people who have less money and who are in any way different. The fakeness of these people when they meet each other is unbelievable and very wearing, as are their morals and ethics (treatment of maids, shopworkers and paramount desire to marry or befriend those with wealth above anything else).

So what you are saying is their behaviour is similar to the Hollywood "Hi-So's" in California or the British aristocracy ??....

[Oberkommando]

you had a good post there until you came up with the generalisation that all hi-so's are xenaphobic. In my experience it is the opposite. But there you go....

But you are an Asian are you not?

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Henry, I would persue it for the sake of knowing the reason. You only spoke to the monkey, now contact the management office or whoever is in charge of lets. Bluff it and make out you want to meet to view an apartment and see what response you get and if it confirms your initial suspicions. If there are "none available" a quick search of Google should bring up if any are for sale/rent with agencies or on websites and have your wife call to see if they really are still available at this time.

The Thai hi-so are strange folk. On one hand they try to emulate the West with their phrases, education, holidays and materialism (but go tackily overboard) and on the other shun people who have less money and who are in any way different. The fakeness of these people when they meet each other is unbelievable and very wearing, as are their morals and ethics (treatment of maids, shopworkers and paramount desire to marry or befriend those with wealth above anything else).

Just yesterday there was a show on TV with a very rich Tomboy (40-something) in her palatial home with try-too-hard-to-look-like-Dynasty furnishings showing round the reporter while smooching her actress girlfriend. The girlfriend was absolutely stunning and no doubt not poor herself, but it was plainly obvious that because of this Tomboy's inherited wealth the actress was suddenly able to become lesbian for a while. With no shame as to her intentions. The tomboy openly said she liked to buy her girlfriends a car of their choice, in this case a BMW. The actress and so many like her are hardly different from the stereotypical sick buffalo girl, only that they are more beautiful and slightly less blatant...but for some unknown reason are not looked down on in society while a prostitute is. It's nearly accepted as normal because it's so common.

The normal and middle class Thais know that the rich or hi-so Thais will marry for more money than they have if possible, and when it fails will get a string of new partners based on the same criteria. No lessons learnt, it was the same two hundred years ago.

So true.

[CarlBkk]

The Thai hi-so are strange folk. On one hand they try to emulate the West with their phrases, education, holidays and materialism (but go tackily overboard) and on the other shun people who have less money and who are in any way different. The fakeness of these people when they meet each other is unbelievable and very wearing, as are their morals and ethics (treatment of maids, shopworkers and paramount desire to marry or befriend those with wealth above anything else).

So what you are saying is their behaviour is similar to the Hollywood "Hi-So's" in California or the British aristocracy ??....

Yes it is, but on a much wider, cruder and more acceptable scale.

[Tywais]

But you are right in a sense when it comes to property, many, many owners will not let to Indians, Koreans, Japanese, White people, depending on what bad experience they may have had with a particular tenant in the past.

And some won't rent to Thais, so not exactly racist - exclusivists would be more accurate.

[givenall]

Every country has these places. Bottom line......DONT GO THERE........LOL

Yeap...the world over...is it "racist" ? proberly...is it unique to Thailand...no way...

On the surface everyone pretend that they are not racist, but in fact if given chance everyone wants and will keep the best for themselves, from foreigners or their own national. Just say f..k them

Plus I have a lot better use for my 40+million bath than living next to snobs

Edited September 21, 2009 by givenall

[JUDAS]

Hey, maybe nothing more than the security guard not liking whitey

[samran]

you had a good post there until you came up with the generalisation that all hi-so's are xenaphobic. In my experience it is the opposite. But there you go....

But you are an Asian are you not?

I'm 50/50, but if you were to look at me, you wouldn't pick me as Asian, Spanish maybe. And just to confirm which genes run dominant in my family, you can take a look at the picture below. My daughter is the only Thai citizen in the photo. I'll give you a hint, she's not the one on the left or the right.

nb..not to say that racism doesn't exist here...it does. But in my experience westerners are treated the best of the bunch here, and are more favoured here than most Thai's. But then again, as proven by the brains trust on TV, despite being here 10 years, I seem to live in a different Thailand to the rest of you...

But you are right in a sense when it comes to property, many, many owners will not let to Indians, Koreans, Japanese, White people, depending on what bad experience they may have had with a particular tenant in the past.

And some won't rent to Thais, so not exactly racist - exclusivists would be more accurate.

very true. My main experience in renting here has been that if I ring and speak in Thai to the land lord I'm told the property is taken. Ring back and speak in English, the property is mysteriously available again.

If they aren't sure, they'll ask how much money you earn, where you work etc.

Pretty much the same with hotels. Many places, especially up markets ones, flat out used to not have Thai guests. Fortunately competition, and economic downturn has (mainly) seen the end to that.

Edited September 21, 2009 by samran

[Travel2003]

I dont think it is racism.

Discrimination maybe.

Some people only like to play "with their own", and I think that is up to them.

Just as the "Japanese only" clubs one find many places (even outside Japan).

Discrimination, but not racism.

One pub/restaurant in Sukhumvit, where I go once in a while, has always a lady at the entrance, to greet the customers.

When someone looking like arab or Indian approaches, she always say, sorry this is a private club.

That I believe is racism.

Bad, but again, up to them.

[onnut]

I rented an apartment on Soi PiPat on Convent in Silom, the owner was a Thai Lady and she was a very nice Hi-So women. I remember her husband was relate to Thai royalty in someway. anyway, they would not let or rent to Thai nationals. only white folk lived there and a few Japs. so they are not all racist against foreigners.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I rented an apartment on Soi PiPat on Convent in Silom, the owner was a Thai Lady and she was a very nice Hi-So women. I remember her husband was relate to Thai royalty in someway. anyway, they would not let or rent to Thai nationals. only white folk lived there and a few Japs. so they are not all racist against foreigners.

Still racist though. Just not against foreigners.

[jcon]

terday there was a show on TV with a very rich Tomboy (40-something) in her palatial home with try-too-hard-to-look-like-Dynasty furnishings showing round the reporter while smooching her actress girlfriend. The girlfriend was absolutely stunning and no doubt not poor herself, but it was plainly obvious that because of this Tomboy's inherited wealth the actress was suddenly able to become lesbian for a while. With no shame as to her intentions. The tomboy openly said she liked to buy her girlfriends a car of their choice, in this case a BMW.

Who was the actress?

Edited September 21, 2009 by jcon

[henryalleman]

But you are right in a sense when it comes to property, many, many owners will not let to Indians, Koreans, Japanese, White people, depending on what bad experience they may have had with a particular tenant in the past.

And some won't rent to Thais, so not exactly racist - exclusivists would be more accurate.

Sorry to say but you are correct, my landlady don't rent to Thai people and her estate agent who own also a few appartments is the same. Both of them are Chinese landlady from Hongkong, the estate agent is Cheachiew.

[henryalleman]

Henry, I would persue it for the sake of knowing the reason. You only spoke to the monkey, now contact the management office or whoever is in charge of lets. Bluff it and make out you want to meet to view an apartment and see what response you get and if it confirms your initial suspicions. If there are "none available" a quick search of Google should bring up if any are for sale/rent with agencies or on websites and have your wife call to see if they really are still available at this time.

I would persue and go the bottom of it, but my general would not like it at all, for the reasons I mentioned above. And if you know my general you would not commit insubortination also LOL

[onnut]

Just yesterday there was a show on TV with a very rich Tomboy (40-something) in her palatial home with try-too-hard-to-look-like-Dynasty furnishings showing round the reporter while smooching her actress girlfriend. The girlfriend was absolutely stunning and no doubt not poor herself, but it was plainly obvious that because of this Tomboy's inherited wealth the actress was suddenly able to become lesbian for a while.

I do not believe anyone would or could become gay just because they wanted to be with a wealthy lover. this actress must already have some gay feelings before she met the tomboy. if she was that sexy then she could easily meet a wealthy bloke.

I want an Aston Martin but I would never take it from behind just so I could have one. would any of you lot? I doubt it, and if you did then you must already have gay feelings.

[richard_smith237]

IF you had 45 MB I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with you buying property, additionally, if there were any units for rent and you were prepared to pay the rental then I'm sure that would also be acceptable.

Is it possible that this was just the security guard being typically dumb and lazy by simply saying that foreigners cannot own the apartments there because that was the easiest and quickest way to answer your questions ?

i.e. The security guard knows its an expensive place and assumes 99.9% of people can't afford it, as he works there, his status is increased by proxy and he was perhaps attempting to flex his muscles and dispose of someone disturbing is mental slumber.

I've seen this occur a lot, even at my own apartment when I try to drive in past new security after being away for a few weeks / month.

Security often overstep the mark and attempt to show off their perceived power at any opportunity.

[miatai]

When people talked and wrote about racism towards foreigners of European origin I always denied it, and called it pure fantasy. But yesterday I was confronted it by myself

Here my story.

Yesterday afternoon I was making a small tour around Pakkret folowing the banks of the Chappaya river. I saw an billboard about Suan Thip restaurant. Always interresting to discover new places I decided to take a look, and indeed it was a very nice resraurant located in a beautifill park with several inner and open air privat rooms and dinner was cooked on the table. Its seems rather exclusive. I noticed that besides the restaurant there was an appartement building also located in the park with a river view but is was as usual blocked by security.

When I approached the security and asked him some where I could have some informatio about the place to rent or buy an appartment.

He told me bluntly that no foreigners were allowed to live there. I asked him why, did they disliked or hate foreigners. He did not even replied. I'm not the kind of man who give up very easy so I keep on trying to get some reaction from him(in a very polite way) At last some other boy runned into the building and came back with some brochure. .

The minimum size of one appartment was 330 square meter the maximum was 530 square meter.

Buying price was upto 45 million Baht for a 530 square appartment

So I presume they are very exclusive appartments for the realy Hi-So Thais and that they don't want foreigners in their present.

Came back home and asked my general to take a look with me. The moment she saw the entrance and the restaurant she knew that the restaurant and appartments belong to the Kitikachorn family and she refused to go even one step further because Kitikachorn was responsible for the brutal oppression of the student rebellion in 1974 where even a tank deliberatly run over a 13 year old boy who was trying to block the tank by laying in front of it. I think the older expats amongst us will recall the TV footage about the massacre of the students.

Also my Thai family who are Bangkokians and living in the area did'nt know this place or restaurant so it must be realy very exclusive. Also they were not amused by the blatant racism towards me.

So I can only conclude the real Upperclass in this country like to keep us out of there life.

I would like to emphazise that I was dressed polite(as always) and don't drive an old pick-up truck.

I just tell this story because I never expected to have this experience, and in fact I was schocked by it.

racism????

consider this.

babara streisand, the very rich "the way we were" /"a star is born" actress tried moving into a manhattan neighborhood once and the whole neighborhood went berserk because she was a jew.

the israeli embassy tried setting up shop next to the canadian embassy in a neighboring country and the canadian embassy moved out and was quoted as saying the israelis posed a threat to the canadians because the former was the target of terrorists.

a non-local canadian bought an expensive house in the upperty ottawa neighborhood and come the canadian national day, decided to hang the canadian flag in full view of all her locally born canadian neighbors.

guess what?

a neighbor called up to say true blue blood canadians don't do that - hang the nation's maple leaf for the world to see come national day - a la carte canadien style.

are these semblances or attributes of racism??????

Edited September 21, 2009 by miatai

[senshusband]

I can understand your feelings possibly being hurt because you might not be welcomed there. It bites. But just know that it one less place you have to worry about visiting. I myself live in the US 50-75% of the time. I can understand the owners of the establishment in that I have a big problem with illegal immigrants. This includes everyone that comes to this country "uninvited" and pitches tent. I think it is wrong and therefore I won't give the time of day to an illegal or a squatter. That's just me. I hear about how I am wrong in doing this everyday from my friends and occasionally my wife. I believe that anyone that has a business should be able to refuse service to whomever they wish. If a person has an establishment they should be able to run how they choose. That is what I call Freedom Of Choice.

But if I had eating or living facilities I would welcome you. I have no prejudices in Thailand.

[Travel2003]

Just yesterday there was a show on TV with a very rich Tomboy (40-something) in her palatial home with try-too-hard-to-look-like-Dynasty furnishings showing round the reporter while smooching her actress girlfriend. The girlfriend was absolutely stunning and no doubt not poor herself, but it was plainly obvious that because of this Tomboy's inherited wealth the actress was suddenly able to become lesbian for a while.

I do not believe anyone would or could become gay just because they wanted to be with a wealthy lover. this actress must already have some gay feelings before she met the tomboy. if she was that sexy then she could easily meet a wealthy bloke.

I want an Aston Martin but I would never take it from behind just so I could have one. would any of you lot? I doubt it, and if you did then you must already have gay feelings.

Saw it as well, as my wife called me over to the tv to see it. Especially the brass plated elevator in the house.

My (Thai) wife said it was not a Tom, but a Hi-So guy. He inherited most of his money from his parents.

The huge flatscreen tv was bought for 5 million Bt.

Yes the lady was a younger actress.

[miatai]

When people talked and wrote about racism towards foreigners of European origin I always denied it, and called it pure fantasy. But yesterday I was confronted it by myself

Here my story.

Yesterday afternoon I was making a small tour around Pakkret folowing the banks of the Chappaya river. I saw an billboard about Suan Thip restaurant. Always interresting to discover new places I decided to take a look, and indeed it was a very nice resraurant located in a beautifill park with several inner and open air privat rooms and dinner was cooked on the table. Its seems rather exclusive. I noticed that besides the restaurant there was an appartement building also located in the park with a river view but is was as usual blocked by security.

When I approached the security and asked him some where I could have some informatio about the place to rent or buy an appartment.

He told me bluntly that no foreigners were allowed to live there. I asked him why, did they disliked or hate foreigners. He did not even replied. I'm not the kind of man who give up very easy so I keep on trying to get some reaction from him(in a very polite way) At last some other boy runned into the building and came back with some brochure. .

The minimum size of one appartment was 330 square meter the maximum was 530 square meter.

Buying price was upto 45 million Baht for a 530 square appartment

So I presume they are very exclusive appartments for the realy Hi-So Thais and that they don't want foreigners in their present.

Came back home and asked my general to take a look with me. The moment she saw the entrance and the restaurant she knew that the restaurant and appartments belong to the Kitikachorn family and she refused to go even one step further because Kitikachorn was responsible for the brutal oppression of the student rebellion in 1974 where even a tank deliberatly run over a 13 year old boy who was trying to block the tank by laying in front of it. I think the older expats amongst us will recall the TV footage about the massacre of the students.

Also my Thai family who are Bangkokians and living in the area did'nt know this place or restaurant so it must be realy very exclusive. Also they were not amused by the blatant racism towards me.

So I can only conclude the real Upperclass in this country like to keep us out of there life.

I would like to emphazise that I was dressed polite(as always) and don't drive an old pick-up truck.

I just tell this story because I never expected to have this experience, and in fact I was schocked by it.

during his first winter as an exchange scholar, an african student at a bus stop was freezing in a western country small township in the suburbs where the winter temperatures falls far below the -20 degree celsius. .

a bus came along and when the driver saw the black student, instead of stopping for him who was waving frantically alone at the bus-stop for the driver to stop for him,the student, the bus driver decided to step it up on his pedal and speeded away as if the student did not exist.

this was witnessed by no one except the student himself who later on in life, went on home to his country to become a minister in his own country.

was it racism he suffered in the hands of the bus driver?????

was it so hard to see a black human being poised against all the glistening white snow??????

or was he too sensitive????