Getting Crazy With Salt Water Pool!

[heinzi]

Hi,

i find myself dumping bags after bags of salt inside the SW pool and the indicator never goes to green. Anybody else has problems with SWPool during rain season ??? I cannot believe that i have to dump another 50kg bag of salt for 500b in the pool everytime it rained !

Do you have a SW pool, how do you keep the chlorine and salt inside for a long time ??

Thanks

Heinzi

[fred2007]

Hi,

i find myself dumping bags after bags of salt inside the SW pool and the indicator never goes to green. Anybody else has problems with SWPool during rain season ??? I cannot believe that i have to dump another 50kg bag of salt for 500b in the pool everytime it rained !

Do you have a SW pool, how do you keep the chlorine and salt inside for a long time ??

Thanks

Heinzi

I do not have a pool here but i did have back in OZ I think your cell which creates the chlorine

is damaged and you would need to replace it but you can try to clean it first

[heinzi]

Hi,

i find myself dumping bags after bags of salt inside the SW pool and the indicator never goes to green. Anybody else has problems with SWPool during rain season ??? I cannot believe that i have to dump another 50kg bag of salt for 500b in the pool everytime it rained !

Do you have a SW pool, how do you keep the chlorine and salt inside for a long time ??

Thanks

Heinzi

I do not have a pool here but i did have back in OZ I think your cell which creates the chlorine

is damaged and you would need to replace it but you can try to clean it first

Thanks for the suggest, well they exchanged this cell a few weeks ago. They argue, if the cell was broken, then it would stay in the exactly middle yellow postion and not near green.... heinz

[monty]

I too reckon there is something wrong with your chlorinator, either the controller or the cell.

It's a self cleaner so normally the cell should last very long without maintenance.

You normally only have to add salt when you lose water, i.e. when it rains and salt water overflows into the drain, or when having lots of people in the pool and a lot of splashing out requiring you to top up the pool with fresh water.

Do you regularly do a ph and chlorine test? Salt pool can have the ph go wrong which would be very though on the cell...

[samuibeachcomber]

yes agree,need to do a ph test.however if the salt chlorinater cell is salted up then you need to clean with hydrochlric acid/water mix solution.

[cdnvic]

Thailand is notorious for having very hard water. You need to check for mineral buildup on the cell at shorter intervals than what the manufacturer might suggest. Also check to make sure your alkalinity is between 80 and 120 to ensure that the water isn't corroding your equipment.

In the past year I've seen a couple of ruined salt generators who's owners had no clue about what alkalinity was.

[heinzi]

Thanks! Well i will have my guy check ph and chlorine on Tuesday when he comes and see how we can check alkalinity, not sure about that. Like i said, some 3-4 weeks ago they exchanged the cell in the sensor unit, so i maybe that is not the problem. I will have dejoyaux come back and open it up so we can take a look at the cell.

The pool is pretty salty now, i think more than it should be, and still the indicator does not move to green. I think i will order 100kg more salt just to see if it will move to green, when i put it in.

So you mean every time it rains a lot, i should add some salt like 10-20kg, check ph and chlorine? maybe add a chlorine tab also?? What about this cell, so it means once the warranty year is over i will have to pay for the new cell myself , how much is that? wow, i really chosen the SW pool to have some peace of mind and have it pretty easy, now it looks like it needs a lot attention.

Thing is dejoyaux said that the cell has to be constantly working so there should be some chlorine and salt present. Nobody is swimming now so it could also run on the minimum if i could choose, however then DJ will say later: "its your problem now, cause you let the salt and chlorine deplete, thats why the cell is broken, up to you, help yourself, your mistake.."

Warranty or followup service is a terrible thing in thailand, be it for repairs on my 2 houses or the pool.. You're greeted and complimented to the highest extend during the purchase process, once its all finished, the parties disappear from earth, and its hard to even get somebody on the phone. They just dont care about whats going on, after you paid !

Edited September 27, 2009 by heinzi

[xerostar]

<quote>Warranty or followup service is a terrible thing in thailand, be it for repairs on my 2 houses or the pool.. You're greeted and complimented to the highest extend during the purchase process, once its all finished, the parties disappear from earth, and its hard to even get somebody on the phone. They just dont care about whats going on, after you paid !

</quote>

I'll second that. I had a s/s gate made, it needed some work to finish it. Paid the money in good faith. (idiot me)

Phoned them many times, promised to come but back never showed up.

About the pool - did you ask the manufacturer what the problem could be?

http://www.compupool.com.au/product/salt_w...f_cleaning.html (they have an enquiry page)

I've had salt water pools before but got sick of adding salt and messing about with the chlorinator.

Now I have non-salt, very easy to maintain with a little chlorine powder and some soda ash - nice refreshing water too.

If it rains a lot then you do lose chemicals by dilution/overflow. Just avoid adding before it rains if you can!

[heinzi]

<quote>Warranty or followup service is a terrible thing in thailand, be it for repairs on my 2 houses or the pool.. You're greeted and complimented to the highest extend during the purchase process, once its all finished, the parties disappear from earth, and its hard to even get somebody on the phone. They just dont care about whats going on, after you paid !

</quote>

I'll second that. I had a s/s gate made, it needed some work to finish it. Paid the money in good faith. (idiot me)

Phoned them many times, promised to come but back never showed up.

About the pool - did you ask the manufacturer what the problem could be?

(they have an enquiry page)

I've had salt water pools before but got sick of adding salt and messing about with the chlorinator.

Now I have non-salt, very easy to maintain with a little chlorine powder and some soda ash - nice refreshing water too.

If it rains a lot then you do lose chemicals by dilution/overflow. Just avoid adding before it rains if you can!

Great advice, i will contact the manufacturer of this chlorinator to find out more...

Thanks all for the help

[cdnvic]

The pool is pretty salty now, i think more than it should be, and still the indicator does not move to green. I think i will order 100kg more salt just to see if it will move to green, when i put it in

Don't add more salt than is required. You are just wasting money. I would strongly suggest taking a water sample (about 1 litre) to a pool shop to be tested. Knowing exactly what state your water is in is important. 6000ppm of salt is what your own body fluids are, and is what most chlorinators work at.

As for adding salt after every rain, don't. Add salt only when your salinity drops below the level your chlorinator requires. In a lot of cases the rainfall and evaporation cancel each other out.

To help keep you sane, I strongly suggest getting a hydrometer or at least some salt test strips so that you can monitor your salt levels and take out a lot of the guess work.

[antony77]

The pool is pretty salty now, i think more than it should be, and still the indicator does not move to green. I think i will order 100kg more salt just to see if it will move to green, when i put it in

Don't add more salt than is required. You are just wasting money. I would strongly suggest taking a water sample (about 1 litre) to a pool shop to be tested. Knowing exactly what state your water is in is important. 6000ppm of salt is what your own body fluids are, and is what most chlorinators work at.

As for adding salt after every rain, don't. Add salt only when your salinity drops below the level your chlorinator requires. In a lot of cases the rainfall and evaporation cancel each other out.

To help keep you sane, I strongly suggest getting a hydrometer or at least some salt test strips so that you can monitor your salt levels and take out a lot of the guess work.

You could have too much salt in your pool which will damage your chlorinater. I add about 25kgs salt about once a year.

In this climate self cleaning cells do need manual cleaning and not worth the extra cost. Also you need to add a stabiliser,

[katabeachbum]

Too much salt, for most clorinators above 8000ppm, damages the clorinator.

Measure your clorinlevel, and as long its high enough you dont need more salt. Also measure your clorinlevel close to the eyeballs when clorinator is running, to see its higher than in the rest of the pool. Clorinator working.

Also check your ph level.

The water should taste just slightly salt, but not as salt as sea water. 5000-6000 ppm is ideal if you have a meter to measure it.

As taught me by JD pool

[Valentine]

Silly question but the photo shows the knob to be fully turned around but is it actually fully turned? You could also try a bucket test. Turn off the pump, place the cell in a bucket of water from your pool just covering the cell, turn on the salt chlorinator. If it is working you should see loads of gas & white colour in the water.

Required salt content varies depending on the brand, some 3,000 ppm, others up to 6,000 ppm. The only time self cleaning cells would need cleaning is if the water hardness in the pool is high for a long period of time. Stabiliser is a suspected carcinogen & is not needed if the salt chlorinator is configured to produce enough chlorine to allow for depletion by UVs from the sun. A good example is if you have a 100m3 pool you should be producing 400 grams of chlorine per day which should leave a chlorine residual of around 2. It is a good idea to have the system running before sunrise to build up a residual. The pump & filter should also be big enough to turn the full volume of the water over twice in an 8 to 10 hour period to minimise wear & tear, prolong the life of the equipment, & keep electricity costs down.

Salt chlorinator manufacturers usually have recommended pool sizes for a particular unit & many of the sellers follow this religiously but the recommendations are based on the assumption that stabiliser will be used.

Occasionally the pool should be superchlorinated, some salt chlorinators have this option or you can run the system for 24 hours to give it a chlorine boost or simply add some chemical chlorine. Heavy rains do throw things out of whack & extra care is needed at this time.

[cdnvic]

Stabiliser is a suspected carcinogen & is not needed if the salt chlorinator is configured to produce enough chlorine to allow for depletion by UVs from the sun

This will overwork and significantly shorten the life of your cell. I have never worked with a manufacturer who recommends this. The minute level of cyuranic acid, about 60-80ppm, (in a temperate climate you can cut that down by a third) used to stabilize the chlorine in the pool poses no risk to swimmers. Yes, in very high amounts it's a health risk, but so is every chemical in your pool in extreme amounts. There's never been any proven health effects from proper use of stabilizers. Just test your water regularly and remember that cyuranic is not consumed by the pool, and you will rarely need top-ups.

The MSDS for cyuranic acid is linked below. As you can see, it's pretty benign.

http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Cyanuric_Acid-9923614

[Valentine]

Cell life is about 9,000 hours. The OP should be able to work out if his cell has run its course or not aside from the bucket test.

[heinzi]

thanks for all your guidance and tips so far.

Basically the guy from desjoyaux told me, that because we did not fill up salt continously the last 2 month, the salt level (and the chlorine production) has dropped to zero after this time. Also as i mentioned earlier they had to take out the cell and took it with them, cause it was full of some sediment or something, they either put a new one in or they cleaned the old one, that was around 3-4 weeks ago.

Well now he said, that the pool has to be treated like it was just filled up, because of the missing salt and so, and the startup is to dump 4 bags salt inside. So, on friday we did 2 and now i ordered 3 more and today (thursday) they dumped 2 more, for 'inital treatment' as they say.

Ok, well just tested ph and chlorine, ph is 7,5 or so (it was raining the whole night) and chlorine is over 3.0 ! Indicator now shows yellow/almost edge to green.

My thought is if that chlorinator was working properly then it should now display RED area for sure! I suggested my wife to use the pool for the next weeks for the soup water, so salty it is.

You could have too much salt in your pool which will damage your chlorinater. I add about 25kgs salt about once a year.

In this climate self cleaning cells do need manual cleaning and not worth the extra cost. Also you need to add a stabiliser,

Yes, i understand, but thats what Djoyaux told me to put 4 bags now as if the pool was just filled up with tap water. 25kg once a year, that sounds quite a few, if that could work i would be happy. For stabilizer you probably mean that cyryaunic acid or similar, well i'd rather try without additional chemicals now. Right now i dont have much clue so i dont want to add some chemical when i dont know if its needed and how its used properly.

Silly question but the photo shows the knob to be fully turned around but is it actually fully turned? You could also try a bucket test. Turn off the pump, place the cell in a bucket of water from your pool just covering the cell, turn on the salt chlorinator. If it is working you should see loads of gas & white colour in the water.

Yes, the knob is fully turned, when i move it back the indicator will move into yellow more.. The cell is in the back of the DJ filtration unit, i would have to open it up and i dont want to mess now with it, cause i dont want to void the warranty and they surely are looking for a reason to tell me just that.

FYI, the pool is 9mx6m and deep 150m(9m) x 60cm (6m).

I am really unsatisfied with Dejoyaux, the pool cost 1,3m baht and later they wanted 5000bht/mth to come 2 time a week, but i found somebody for 2k/mnth. And also during construction i gave them a bit hel_l as they did not fit the surface tiles properly.. maybe that all makes them ignore me now. Their 'technicians' are a bunch of teenagers, and by now i totally doubt that they have any knowledge about saltwater pools.

Is there any company in bangkok where i can purchase phminus and salt tester, alkalinity, ph, chlorine and other things for a reasonable price?? i just bought 1L waterline cleaner for 700bht..

Thanks

Heinzi

[cdnvic]

You are probably overworking your generator by not adding a stabilizer. What is your alkalinity at now?

[heinzi]

You are probably overworking your generator by not adding a stabilizer. What is your alkalinity at now?

No idea actually, tomorrow i will drive to the Djoyaux shop and flatten the sales room with my fortuner...

[cdnvic]

Alkalinity is important to buffer your pH level and keep metal parts from corroding. When it goes way out of parameters the readings from electrical sensors are not reliable. It's simple to control with baking soda.

Rather than flatten the pool shop, drive to a bookstore and get a book on the basics of swimming pools.

The five essentials to understand are:

Free chlorine, total chlorine, and combined chlorine.

pH

Alkalinity

Calcium hardness/ dissolved solids

Cleaning

Understanding how to deal with the above will eliminate most pool related problems.

I don't want to sound harsh but most of this probably comes down to you. Had you done more research and learned how to maintain your pool this problem might have been avoided. Grab a titration kit or some test strips and find out where your chlorine, pH and alkalinity sit. Until then you are just spinning your wheels.

[chrgrims]

yes, get a book or check out troublefreepool.com. very good educational site and forum.

[bestworst]

the salt system can actually harm your equipment but this only happens because of "runaway chlorine" so watch it with this one

[cdnvic]

the salt system can actually harm your equipment but this only happens because of "runaway chlorine" so watch it with this one

Care to explain that one?

A well maintained salt pool will not harm your equipment.

[Gary A]

A friend of mine always used me as a water taster. He would ask me if I could taste any salt. If I could, he always said that was the correct amount. He could taste it too but wanted to make sure it wasn't his imagination. He thought his taste was more accurate than a salinity tester.

[katabeachbum]

A friend of mine always used me as a water taster. He would ask me if I could taste any salt. If I could, he always said that was the correct amount. He could taste it too but wanted to make sure it wasn't his imagination. He thought his taste was more accurate than a salinity tester.

a salt level tester is like 5k baht, measures in ppm. Not much compared to price of saltwaterpool.

[gilbreth]

Hi, salt water pools are close to my heart. Have you inspected the salt sensor on the inside of the cell? Also, try adjusting the chlorine output. If the salt level meter needle moves while you are adjusting betwen low and hi, then the meter is working properly. Also, inspect the output side of the salt cell (which should be in clear plastic). If the cell is working, and there is sufficient salt, the output side of the cell should show a white, cloudy output. If not, the cell is not working, and salt levels then become irrelevant [assuming sufficient salt already]. Simply tasting the water will tell you if there is salt in the water. Cells work quite well on very minimal salt levels [you do NOT need sea water]. Dont concern yourself at this point with pH, alkalinity, etc., those parameters are important, but not for chlorine production from a salt water cell. Best, Gil

Edited February 21, 2010 by gilbreth

[hockeyrick]

Never trust a dial or vu meter

Homeowners get into trouble coz they don't test the water or trust someone else to test it.

If you don't put cyanuric acid/conditioner as we call it, in ur pool, then your chlorine dissipates in 2 hrs by the uv light. simple as that, and you cell is constantly working to make chlorine.

Balance the dam_n pool or forever have headaches.

Most are cheapos and don't want to pay for chems but you have to. Or else your re-grouting every few years and ur body is taking a beating from unhealthy water!

Everybody, do yourself a favor and read this, then get a quality test kit!

http://www.deh.enr.state.nc.us/ehs/chem.htm