Electronic Level Control For Tank

[Beardog]

I picked up a electronic level control for our 2000 liter water tank. It has a multiple purpose. 1 for delivering water to the inlet in the tank & the other is to all the hose bibs for irrigation around the 2 rai. The house has a separate system from the tank to the 2 houses.

I found a way to get the pump to work as well as the electric float valve -but it is messy as I had to sting a female & split into a male & an open set of wires to got to the electric float mechanism & run a defeat relay to shut off the electronic level controller. would a piggyback plug work? Or would this just shut off the pump until demanded. I think I would need a check valve on the inlet to the tank & remove the float ball as well on the mechanical setup. It would be difficult to hook up a control panel as it is outdoors & making the system somewhat waterproof is needed.

Presently it is hooked up by a 1" valve on -off once a week. Is there an easy way to hook this up I am overlooking?

I know in the U.S. I could just pick up cords & make this work easily & have it waterproof. But this is LOS & no hab nothing.

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elkangorito]

My comments/questions in blue.

I picked up a electronic level control for our 2000 liter water tank. It has a multiple purpose. 1 for delivering water to the inlet in the tank & the other is to all the hose bibs for irrigation around the 2 rai. The house has a separate system from the tank to the 2 houses.

I found a way to get the pump to work as well as the electric float valve -but it is messy as I had to sting a female & split into a male & an open set of wires to got to the electric float mechanism & run a defeat relay to shut off the electronic level controller.

Male & female what? Are you talking about 220v plugs & sockets? Defeat relay?

Can you supply the name & part number for this device? Does it come with instructions? Where did you buy it?

would a piggyback plug work? Or would this just shut off the pump until demanded. I think I would need a check valve on the inlet to the tank & remove the float ball as well on the mechanical setup. It would be difficult to hook up a control panel as it is outdoors & making the system somewhat waterproof is needed.

Presently it is hooked up by a 1" valve on -off once a week. Is there an easy way to hook this up I am overlooking?

I know in the U.S. I could just pick up cords & make this work easily & have it waterproof. But this is LOS & no hab nothing.

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beardog, since it's virtually to imagine what you have & how you have set it up, it's not possible to give any sort of answer (apart from guessing).

Can you supply some photos?

[Beardog]

Here is a diagram of the setup.

[Beardog]

Diagram: Mac 3 electronic level controller. 220 volts. the y adapter setup is to keep the pump hot while the water fill up function is on. the switch bypass is to stop the flow to the inlet to tank so it will power the sprinkler system.

[elkangorito]

I'm sorry Beardog, your diagram doesn't help me much.

Which level controller do you have?

a] Elettrosonda Q.

b] Elettrosonda EV.

c] Elettrosonda DB.

d] Elettrosonde Z8-Z11.

[Beardog]

Hi Elkangorito,

It does not list any of those names here is a link to their site. It is under Mac 3 (not equipped with piggyback plug)

Thanks for the help.

http://www.mac3.it/english/english.htm

[elkangorito]

This is the site that I used to quote the types of units available.

I can't do anything without knowing the exact type of controller that you are using. It must be on the website somewhere. Since you said "level controller", that is what I looked for.

Is it one of these?

Key. Mac3. Small.

Electromechanical level regulators.

Sentinel.

Alarm with and without output relay.

Agma22.

Level regulator with magnetic hook-up.

Reka2000.

Capacitive level controllers.

[Beardog]

Mac3 Electromechanical level regulators. It was an Italian site. 3x1 cable.

Thanks again

Barry

[elkangorito]

Now that we know that your "level controller" is not electronic (it is a simple float switch), we can move forward.

Please tell me, in "step-by-step" form, what you want this float switch to do.

Also, what is a "bib"?

Edited September 28, 2009 by elkangorito

[Beardog]

The float setup is to fill the tank when it is half full - so it doesn't kick the primary pump on every time we flush the toilet. The second pump takes the water from the tank to the house, so we really do not want both pumps on all the time. A hose bib is just an outlet - which I have about 14 outlets for irrigation. I have a 3rd pump but it is a monster pump & is costly to operate, so I separated the water distribution to many legs at full pressure to achieve 10 minutes a zone. All I want the float to do is kick on at the 1/2 way point & fill the tank & be able to defeat it so we can use the primary pump for watering. I think I need to heat up the pump with another leg to get it to work as the float cut off switch shuts off power to the pump.

[elkangorito]

Correct me if I am wrong.

You have 3 pumps.

One pump fills the tank. Another pump is for the house (a small pressure pump). The third pump is large & waters many things with some sort of device that limits it's operating time to 10 minutes.

Am I correct so far?

[Beardog]

2 pumps only. I don't want to use the 3rd as it is a very industrial pump & I would have to open every sprinkler & hope the connections held. So it is one pump to take the water from the well & deliver it to the tank & take care of the irrigation needs of the property. the other one just goes from the tank to the 2 houses.

Thanks for hanging in there !

[elkangorito]

2 pumps only. I don't want to use the 3rd as it is a very industrial pump & I would have to open every sprinkler & hope the connections held. So it is one pump to take the water from the well & deliver it to the tank & take care of the irrigation needs of the property. the other one just goes from the tank to the 2 houses.

Thanks for hanging in there !

With regard to the bolded & underlined part of the above, this pump fills the tank & is also responsible for some irrigation. Am I correct so far?

[Beardog]

Correct

[elkangorito]

So, you want this irrigation/tank filling pump & the house "pressure" pump to operate by the float switch? Correct or not?

In other words, if the float switch says "low level", you want the well pump to "kick in" & the house pump plus irrigation to be disabled until the float switch says "I'm full...you can operate"?

Edited September 28, 2009 by elkangorito

[Beardog]

Actually the house pump is isolated & has no bearing on the float setup as all it does is carry water from the tank to the house -which is not involved with the float setup. the float set up needs to come on at the 1/2 way empty stage & fill the tank, but the pump also has to still service the irrigation.

[elkangorito]

Let's call the house pressure pump, Pump 1 (P1) & the tank fill/irrigation pump, Pump 2 (P2).

Ok. I can understand P1 not being included in this arrangement.

So now, P2 has to fill the tank when the tank is low (according to the float switch) & not irrigate at the same time as it is filling the tank. Is this correct?

[Beardog]

Actually the other way around . P2 needs priority over the filling of the tank. The filling of the tank needs to cease function when the irrigation is running to provide the correct pressure & restart by a switch manually or automaticaly. I know this would be too much to hope for without an adequate control box.

[elkangorito]

To my way of thinking, P2 needs to be available only when the tank is full. If you allow P2 to operate with a less than full tank (float switch is defeated), the pump may run dry, which can cause many problems.

[Beardog]

Which leads to the original dilemma of not having P1 & P2 going at the same time each time we use water in the house. I did find a way to give power full time to the pump & also have it fire up the float setup But thought it would cause serious problems as well. I am good with plumbing but not great with electrics. does this sound like I would be a lot better off once a week turning on the 1" shutoff valve to the tank & forgetting about having it automatic. The setup with the 2 pumps runs fine the way it is. I am not sure what would happen if I bypassed the float setup with a redundant plug directly to the pump. I know with water it either works or doesn't. Electricity you get a whole lot more POOF when you screw the pooch.

[elkangorito]

Beardog, this is very simple.

I think you need this:

1] P2 fills the tank but does not irrigate at the same time.

2] When the tank is full, P2 is allowed to irrigate.

Does this sound correct? Please bear in mind that it is NOT a good idea to have P2 irrigating all the time since it will not be able to irrigate unless the tank has water in it (P2 also fills the tank). The tank can't have water in it while P2 is irrigating, unless you want reduced water flow to your irrigation & tank filling. If this is the case, you will need a pump to accommodate your needs so that irrigation flow & tank filling can occur at the same time.

[Beardog]

I kind of figured this.

I think I will go with the manually turn it on & off once a week with the existing PVC valve & save the Grundafos CS pump for when I am working 7+ rai. It eats up a lot of watts compared to the 300 Mitsubishi at 13 intervals of 10 minutes each. Plus to I am using plastic line & the big pump likes big pipes. Thank you so much for the help. I know it can be done but it would probably burn something out or the house down. That 2 & I just had both pumps fixed by Mitsubishi.

Thanks again for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least my expense is nothing compared to Jflundy's air con

Edited September 28, 2009 by Beardog

[elkangorito]

What you are asking for can be done quite simply & with not much cost. Just tell me how often you wish to irrigate (providing the tank is full).

[Beardog]

Do they make a valve that opens electrically off the float valve? The times we irrigate is usually in the morning Early or preferably in the night. The water depends on the time of year. Right now not much water is needed 2 months from now probably every day. If the float switch didn't cut off the pump altogether I could get it to work. That is why I thought a piggyback plug might work. But I am still not sure if the piggyback plug would do the same as wiring the float direct.

[elkangorito]

What you are suggesting will not work.

Now that you have told me how you want things to work, I can make a diagram for you. This diagram will only indicate function & not equipment size. Equipment size is very important since you want it to be reliable & not fail.

Give me a day or 2 to make this diagram.

[Beardog]

Thank you very much. I am enjoying learning a little about the way electrics work. I will check back & give you a couple days. Thanks for taking the time. & I agree about Thai sweating of copper. sometimes OK & sometimes not so crafty!

[elkangorito]

I have attached the function diagram at the bottom of this post.

I guess it won't be as cheap as I thought.

Your other option is to have 4 stopcocks (hand operated valves). You can still use the float switch to control the pump.

Beardog_pump_arrangement.pdf

[Beardog]

Thanks Elkangorito.

I figured as such. It would almost be cheaper to put in another pump or use the 50 baht 1" PVC on off valve once a week. As it seems I would still need to shut something off anyway.

Thanks for the diagram I will save for my water controls files. Thanks for the help!

[David006]

Hi guys ..not to interupt this amazing conflab but..I have a tank and I want it to fill automatically qwhen it gets down to about 25% full from our well. How do these switches work /install ?? What do you ask for in the store? Did not know you could buy such an animal...

Are they the same as an auto bilge pump in a boat ( float or anode detection) ?Where/how do you install them in a plastic 2000 litre tank . electrics are not an issue for me.

thanks guys

david

[elkangorito]

In the attachment below, look for the A94 float switch. On the last page of the attachment, there is a wiring diagram. This is not a DIY job as this kind of float switch cannot directly switch a motor on & off. Even float switches that are designed to switch motors on & off can only be used with small motors (no greater than about 1.5kW).

float_switch.pdf