The Greening Of Chiang Mai – The Sustainable Compromise

[tourismtiger]

The Greening of Chiang Mai – The Sustainable Compromise

Shane K Beary, has been a resident of, and actively engaged in tourism in Chiang Mai since 1986.

He has long argued that in terms of tourism, the city has consistently designed the wrong products, for the wrong markets. In so doing it has denied itself the opportunity that was (and perhaps still is) within its grasp. That of becoming both a world class sustainable city and a model 'responsible tourism' destination.

He claims that by relying more on our USP's (unique selling points) and working with, not against, the environement, we can improve the revenues from tourism, and at the same time use that revenue to fund alternative - green based - revenue stream development that will reduce the 'high risk' dependence we have on tourism revenues.

As is the trend in global politics and development nowadays views tend to be so polarized that it is difficult to establish consensus. I invite the mayoral candidates and others to review and comment on the attached proposal. It offers the first few steps towards a solution in the development of a sustainable future for Chiang Mai and its people.

I also ask all those who wish the best for Chiang Mai, to submit their thoughts and on suggestions for inclusion in our "Future Trends Study".

The study has been designed to provide the elected leaders with the background detail they will need to evaluate in order to make well informed and visionary decisions regarding the future of the city. It is their responsibility to ensure that we benefit from, as opposed to suffer, as a result of the rapid social and environmental changes that are happening in our world today

1. Establishing the Thaa Phae River Market & Festival Area.

2. The transformation of the Mae Kha Canal into permanent Walking Street.

3. The greening of downtown Chiang Mai.

As the online forums on the URL's provided in the proposal are not yet active, and I wanted this document in the public domain whilst the mayoral election is being contested, I ask that you request a copy of the proposal in PDF format from me by sending me a PM.

Having reviewed it, you may then email me your responses, suggestions to the same address. Your input is much appreciated and will be added to the survey document that will be submitted to the next mayor.

Regards,

Shane K Beary

Track of the Tiger TRD

(the Tourism Resources Development Company)

Edited September 28, 2009 by tourismtiger

[sassienie]

As for the greening of downtown Chiang Mai, this will never be successful until new environmental laws are introduced and enforced.

For example: banning the dumping of waste on vacant lands and field areas, imposing the banning of rubbish burning and laws working for more consideration to the destruction of wildlife environments and the protection of species, including trees and plants.

None of this can be done without the full cooperation of the authorities, including councils and the police.

[femi fan]

A bit sad to see this thread plummeting!

I will do the pm to you, but one immediate comment comes to mind and i think it's a good one because solving the problem will lead to increased awareness for the public, leading to other positive benefits for chiang mai's environment and society. The problem i'm talking about is waste disposal.

Like in western countries, set up a proper waste disposal plant out of town somewhere. People drive there and basically dump their unwanted items, and their rubbish, in the appropriate places so that recycling can occur too. It's always sad to see such a beautiful country blighted by the ugly rubbish that citizens dump everywhere. I'm sure a lot of the time they dump stuff from the vehicles simply because they don't know what else to do with it. Any cyclist or train fan will testify to the horrible amounts of countryside covered with litter and rubbish and plastic and so on.

Proper waste collection is a necessity too, not just for some parts of the town. And where are the bins in downtown chiang mai?

By tackling the whole waste problem (and there MUST be plenty of money in the provincial coffers), not only do we get a greener cleaner environment, but people become more aware of their need to take care of THEIR environment, not just the bit of it that his their home. That awareness would then extend to nature in general.

Anybody seen those older thai movies, from the 60s and 70s with footage in bangkok? What a green city it was in those days! Do we want chiang mai to follow this pattern of replacing green with concrete and all the increased waste that comes with this uncontrolled urbanisation?

I really think that tackling the waste problem in this town is doable, within the financial resources of local government, and the right place to start in educating all people who live here to think beyond their own homes.

[Chunkton]

Chiang Mai could be converted into a beautiful city with features that would draw more tourists as a Thai "must see" destination rather than an itinerary "add on" and actually get bodies in those empty hotel rooms. It has everything going for it with a sound and innovative long term plan. Sadly it will never happen, I really don't think I need to even spell out why. Enjoy it now before it gets unlivable.

[Sparkles]

As for the greening of downtown Chiang Mai, this will never be successful until new environmental laws are introduced and enforced.

For example: banning the dumping of waste on vacant lands and field areas, imposing the banning of rubbish burning and laws working for more consideration to the destruction of wildlife environments and the protection of species, including trees and plants.

None of this can be done without the full cooperation of the authorities, including councils and the police.

Agree with you 100%. Nothing will be achieved UNTIl the authorities have the will to act as one. I see ,amongst other things,monumental traffic problems for CM in the future as it is encircled by a river and mountains,narrow roads, and a sub standard public transport system . We were following a smoke belching songteaw this morning,we could hardly breathe, and you ask yourself how vehicles like this are still allowed to be on the road ? and we all know the answer to that. Chiang mai must lay down the platform now if it is to remain a pleasant place to live and encourage people to visit .Has anyone in Chiang Mai have the vision to accomplish this , please step forward and act.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Sorry, but what is he actually proposing?

Paving over Mae Kha canal?? That worked out real well for Bangkok, resulting in a water management nightmare and annual flooding. If you pave over Mae Kha Canal then you may get into trouble at those times of the year that a lot of water must flow through it.. (It's of course obvoious that it needs cleaning up; it's an open sewer)

And then: Thapae River Market? That sounds like Yet Another Artificial Floating Market, please say it aint so. Chiang Mai does not need artificial attractions, and in terms of market, there's a REAL market right there on the river (Ton Lamyai / Kad Luang / Talad Warorot)

Greening: Sure, can never have too much greenery around. It's already quite good for Asia though.

[daoyai]

Maybe the idea of the river market is not floating but to use the land near the governors residence as a park and as this is T.land vendor area? The covering of the Mae Ka is just wrong, that should be cleaned and the pollution sources stopped (in my dreams) then the paths along the sides can be a nice cool shady place to stroll. Walking should be encouraged by eliminating the obsticles and dangers on the sidewalks,(pavements) and providing more stop light controlled crossings and overpass bridges. These are rather simple beginnings but probably beyond the abilities or priorities of the local beurocracy.

[Ulysses G.]

Anyone who does not provide trash containers and routinely puts phone booths in the middle of the sidewalk is hopeless as far as I am concerned.

[noise]

A bit sad to see this thread plummeting!

I really think that tackling the waste problem in this town is doable, within the financial resources of local government, and the right place to start in educating all people who live here to think beyond their own homes.

Why is this thread plummeting? I started to reply earlier but decided not to make the effort as I don't think expats can think of anything the Thais can't and/or haven't already have thought of. Plus there are so many ways to improve the city without any expenditure of capital funds/tax dollars that need to be taken first. Anything of the nature of trying to recreate San Antonio's River Walk (famed San Antonio, Texas, tourist spot) probably could not be funded for too many years to make it worth while to try to come up with grand and glorious schemes now. At least for me.

RE Trash: I have regularly watch the trash collection on a crowded street downtown and in my moo baan: I see the collectors immediately opening bags and segregating the trash as they pick it up. That leads me to believe that they are doing some recycling back at the collection point. So I think the need and and the impetus to deal with the mounting trash problem is there, it is just as femi fan says, it needs more work (as in every other country).

Edited September 30, 2009 by noise

[mccw]

I concure with the thoughts on the need for propper waste management.

Also the enforcing of emssions limmits on the filthy trucks and songteaws, not just handing out fines but follow up, maybe even impounding vehicals and only releasing them once the owner has payed for the work to be done and it is done.

How about a park and ride scheeme. People can park in any of the big shopping centres/ supermarkets out of town and take a cheap bus in to the centre. Make the old city area completely pedestrianised except for tuk tuks and maybe songteaws. Have permanent walking street markets, perhapse leading off from tappae gate side.

Clean up the canals and rivers and make nice walk ways allong there banks.

More walking tours like hollond.

More green always nice.

Stop building flashy malls and other buildings messing up the ambience.

Restrict chain stores, restaurants and coffee shops to the shopping centres. None allowed between Nimmenhiem road and ping river!

Create a region wide task force to stamp out burning. Or give police a bonus for every fire starter they catch, night in jail and fine for land owners.

Include chiang mai on "amazing thailand" promotions, sweeping shots for forest covered mountains, waterfalls and historic temples; plenty of nice things here already dont need any gimicks (grand sale), flash (ugly modern buildings)or <deleted> like the night safari.

Dont advetise the night bazzar as a main attraction! so many other things to do

Is there a reason there are no noodle stalls or lao tables by the ping river? both sides should have nice wide walking pavements with eating and cotching areas, with some shadey places so can enjoy for most of the day time too.

[daoyai]

On my soi, I pay 20baht per month for garbage collection and there is also a guy that comes around to pick up recyclables. Littering is an education issue. Providing trash cans is a "no-brainer".

[Ulysses G.]

Restrict chain stores, restaurants and coffee shops to the shopping centres. None allowed between Nimmenhiem road and ping river!

Yes, we need many more internet shops, massage parlors and crummy little mom and pop grocery stores with nothing worth buying inside.

[tourismtiger]

Perhaps those who have commented so far would care to review the proposal more carefully.

It is based on the understanding that the environmental problems facing Chiang Mai – or anywhere else - will only ever be resolved by two things; Education & Financial Incentive.

The former takes time – a generation or more - and can only be expedited by the latter, which generally requires an innovative approach.

The business model that underlies the River Market proposal is private sector funded and is one that provides funds (from toll gate revenue share) to a coalition of civic groups.

This 3BL approach provides them the funding that they would then be able to implement 'educational programmes , primarily for the young' that are so desperately needed but for which public funding is not available.

Right now, whilst the tourism industry is really hurting for business we have the perfect opportunity to incorporate 'green solutions' into any proposal aimed at bringing about a recovery for the tourism industry.

The big (and small) business owners have the political clout to press for such solutions, and will do so if they see the potential for financial returns.

What colour is a Trojan horse – is it black, brown, white – or could it be green?

The San Antonio boardwalk is perhaps Texas's biggest single tourism revenue generator. There are literally hundreds of examples worldwide where cities have used their rivers to their financial advantage.

Ban Thaa – was the name of the village in the Wat Ket area – a focal point – where goods transported by pack pony caravans from Yunnan and Moulmein were loaded onto, or taken off the scorpion tail boats that travelled the river. The project does have has strong historical roots, and is designed to promote and celebrate the Lan Na culture.

The Mae Kha Canal is a canal in name only. It has been an open and stagnant sewer for over 100 years. If one is looking for examples of canals/sewers that have been filled in and have then made a valuable contribution to their cities, try Fleet Street, London.

Those who are concerned about the pollution, garbage collection, cheap tourist attractions etc., should ask themselves, how we are going to address those issues without relying on government funds? Pointing out the flaws we all know about will not help, we need solutions. I've shown you mine, now show me yours…………………..

Tourism Tiger

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Tell us more about your organization and management staff. What are your resources? your current backers?

Theoretically I think there are many things that could be done to improve and transform CM without damaging the culture etc.

The biggest hurdle I see is the corruption that underpins nearly everything in Thailand. Will the heavy hitters behind the scenes who control things allow someone else to take the initiative. I would be curious to hear how your organization can possibly get anything done without giving it over to those who could get it done. Once they control it then its back to the same old promises without results.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It's hard to comment in detail without knowing the full text of the proposal, hence the questions.

So I take it it's not a floating market that you propose but pretty much the Sunday Walking Street market but then located on the river banks? (The *EXCELLENT* Sunday market that's currently free and works very well? ) You'd need to provide parking somewhere in that area, but that can be solved of course.

For the Mae Kha Canal, an issue could be that absolutely everything next to it is completely hideous.. ugly shacks, etc. Paving it over could be the easy part compared to developing things that people would actually want to walk past.

Stop building flashy malls and other buildings messing up the ambience.

Restrict chain stores, restaurants and coffee shops to the shopping centres. None allowed between Nimmenhiem road and ping river!

Regulations are already in place that would prevent a flashy mall being built in the old town area. There's nothing wrong with flashy malls in the right places, i.e. on the ring roads.

I also don't see the need to restrict chain stores in any way; and: what's a chain store? No more Wawi Coffee outlets? Perhaps a law on hideous signage and bill boards would make sense though; allow any store (we're not living under communism after all) but don't put any big Golden Arches out on the street in the town area.

[getgoin]

I have long thought that rebuilding the wall around the old city would be a fantastic attraction that would make Chiang Mai a must go destination.

[anonymouse]

I have long thought that rebuilding the wall around the old city would be a fantastic attraction that would make Chiang Mai a must go destination.

Agreed on this one, it would really put Chiang Mai on the map and could generate a good income on opening up parts of the wall for tourists to walk along for a fee.

At the end of the day it's all about quick cash though, if they have the choice of building another hotel on a piece of land or a nice green family park we know what's going to happen

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Now that's a good idea.. The gates of course were rebuilt, but the whole wall could be rebuilt as well. You would lose the pavements on the inside most likely though.

[miltonbentley]

Rebuilding the wall is an excellent idea. If it is built wide enough people could walk along the top. There are many nice trees along the moat which could provide nice shade points of interest.

In terms of plants in public places I think the municipality actually does very well and this should be acknowledged. There are plenty around the moat. on all the central reservations on the city's highways and in plenty of other places. There is however always room for more and householders and businesses could all improve the environment simply by planting more.

Improving the environment does not have to solely rely on giant government plans and expensive mega projects - things can improve considerably by communities and individuals just trying that little bit harder.

[tourismtiger]

Rebuilding the wall is an excellent idea. If it is built wide enough people could walk along the top. There are many nice trees along the moat which could provide nice shade points of interest.

In terms of plants in public places I think the municipality actually does very well and this should be acknowledged. There are plenty around the moat. on all the central reservations on the city's highways and in plenty of other places. There is however always room for more and householders and businesses could all improve the environment simply by planting more.

Improving the environment does not have to solely rely on giant government plans and expensive mega projects - things can improve considerably by communities and individuals just trying that little bit harder.

[daoyai]

Yes, the Mae Kha is a canal in name only as it is actually a stream, and a flowing one so NOT stagnant. Very polluted, for sure, should be the first environmental priority as flowing water sources can be rehabbed by stopping the sewage, not covering it over. CM doesn;t need another road, covering streams is to admit defeat.

Edited October 1, 2009 by daoyai

[PeaceBlondie]

Who solves this problem? Thais, farang or both? Govt., NGO's, citizens, corporations, all?

[tourismtiger]

Project Funding - The proposed Thaa Phae River Market is made up of scorpion tailed barges and walkways, one barge and one walkway being a unit of investment that can be owned by an individual owner. As it is a barge (boat) and not a property there is no law prohibiting foreign ownership.

The invstment cost although not finalised is expected to Baht 5.0 to 7.0 million per unit, so you can do your own ROI projections from there.

The real value for the Chiang Mai Tourism Industry (hotels and tours) lies in the increase in tourism volume such a project will bring to the city, the promotion it gives to the Lan Na Culture as a USP, and the subsequent increase in downtown property values in which the major decision makers are so heavily invested.

Corruption - Those who live on immoral earnings are suffering along with the rest of us now. They would welcome anything that brings an increase in tourism.

If a project like the one proposed brings about a major increase in tourism their old revenue streams - the quasi legal businesses- will thrive and pay them more money.

If the proposed river market project is set up to ensure fewer direct opportunities for graft, works within the law, and shares profits with a coalition of civic groups it has a far better chance of minimising leakage through graft than does a business operating on the edge of the law. At the same time it will provide the civic groups funding (otherwise not available) to fund education on the evils of corruption.

The Mae Kha Canal - does not flow, it has not done so for years. Ask John Shaw he did a lot of research on it.

As a walking street it would be covered over by a frame on which greenery (creepers etc.) would grow, absorbing carbon and producing oxygen. The same frame also blocks off any unsightly views, and gives vendors an opportunity to minmise their exposure to corruption.

The canal as a stream to walk along, the city wall around the moat as a scenic stroll,or a park area near the river.

Please ask yourself - (a) How much will people pay to use these attractions? (b)How much will they cost to build? © What therefore will the ROI be? Are those who proposed them willing to fund them?

I like the wall idea and it is typical of projects that could be funded by revenue share from 3BL based businesses - like the proposed river market & walking street.

[tourismtiger]

Two extra points.

1. There is no reason why proper sewage pipes could not be placed in the vanal bed before it was covered over, provided the sewage could be piped to a treatment area.

2. The vendors as legitimate owners/leaseholders of their 4 - 6 sq.m sales outlets would be far less exposed to corruption than they are at present, and more easily subjected to rules and regulations regarding waste management, pollution etc.

[daoyai]

This is a parody right?

[Donnyboy]

Anyone who does not provide trash containers and routinely puts phone booths in the middle of the sidewalk is hopeless as far as I am concerned.

as well as the electrical poles, boxes, exposed wires, that hang down at head level

[cmsally]

Briefly - I think this to a certain extent misses the point as do a lot of things that arise as projects etc.

Chiang Mai was/is to a certain extent popular as an entity in itself. It has a lot of shopping/attractions, but for many people the attraction is in the city itself.

This boils down as being the responsibility of existing residents and the city authorities.

Surely a better idea would be for stricter planning - including building design.

How about tax incentives for people who have traditional style housing and a certain ratio of greenery?

With all these extra proposed projects, lets just suppose they attract a massive inflow into downtown areas. You know what happens next. People start sectioning land to build shophouses and building small shacks everywhere to rent out.

Just as an example of bad planning. It is in the pipeline to remove electrical wires/poles etc from the main Tapae Rd.

Well personally I don't regard Tapae Rd as particularly beautiful.

So what happens - all the wiring is now moved over to the sois off Tapae Rd. Well actually the sois are more scenic in most cases, but now you will just have to peer through the extra wiring to see things.

This is just one example of the non planning , so when you hear the subject of a wire free Tapae Rd (only one road) brought up you may like to point this one out.

[tourismtiger]

No, a parody is what you have in terms of management of the Mae Kha Canal at present - No less than 5 government departments who have deliberted the problem for 210 years.

[tourismtiger]

No my friend - a parody is where the 5 different government departments that oversee various aspects of the Mae Kha Canal cannot provide a viable solution after 210 years of deliberation.

A parody - is where people believe corruption or anythying else in Thailand can be eradicated or changed by introducing laws that will not be enforced, or solutions that pay off too far down the road. You need a carrot and a stick, not either or.

If you find the concept of the social business model a fantasy, sit down and chat to that nice man Mr Yunus at the Grameen Bank.

[noise]

Tell us more about your organization and management staff. What are your resources? your current backers?

Theoretically I think there are many things that could be done to improve and transform CM without damaging the culture etc.

The biggest hurdle I see is the corruption that underpins nearly everything in Thailand. Will the heavy hitters behind the scenes who control things allow someone else to take the initiative. I would be curious to hear how your organization can possibly get anything done without giving it over to those who could get it done. Once they control it then its back to the same old promises without results.

tourismtiger

I have to tag on to Cobra's post and questions (and go back to my earlier reply). I read all your subsequent posts and still do not see any details on the what/who/why/when/how for your organization and request for inputs.

Without real details, I might as well propose a sky train over each of the 3 ring roads with connecting ones running east and west with stops every 2 km inside ring road #3. And no parking for private cars inside the super highway (ring #1) that do not belong to residents. And no encroachment on sidewalks by cars (i.e., parking), push cart vendors, store owners.

You said: "Please ask yourself - (a) How much will people pay to use these attractions? (b)How much will they cost to build? What therefore will the ROI be? Are those who proposed them willing to fund them? "

Again, the what/who/why/when/how make all the difference here. Are trying to run a poll to see if people will pay to go to your personal project? Not knowing who/what you are, what you are really offering (if anything) I will say no one will pay to go. No one would pay to go to the walking street (you are not going to be able to recreate BKK's floating market tourist spot in CNX where people do pay to take the boat tour).

Could the city, over 10-20-30 years, get a significant increase in tourist and convention dollars if some grand Ping River bank scene was created? Maybe, but that is a different issue. And where would CNX get the tax revenue to pay for it? Why the answer is obvious, implement a 1%-2% VAT for everything sold in CNX, goods and services (massage 130 baht/hr + 2% VAT). A nice new VAT should do wonders for tourism and the convention business.

Ok, I am being somewhat unkind with my sarcasm, but I think it kind of shows I, at least, think you just threw out a question that is not really framed such that you will get the response you want. So far I have no idea what that really is.

'nuff said from me.