Transfering Money For Land Purchase

[sinkorswim]

i have just purchased land in mae jo just outside chiang mai.

i have signed everything and have all leases in place however i have had to comeback to the uk before everthing is finalised.

my question is this

i have signed all papers for the land, lease and purchase agreement (land is being purchased in my girlfriends name with me leasing from her for 30 + 30 years) and my lawyer has told me to transfer the money needed to finalise everything into his bank account 4 days before it is needed.

has anyone done this before and is it safe?

can i trust the lawyer to make sure everything is tied up properly, and to make sure that my lease agreement is entered on the land title on the day of purchase?

they made a small mistake on the purchase agreement which ended up costing me 30,000baht. so i am a bit wary.

cheers

[taxexile]

they made a small mistake on the purchase agreement which ended up costing me 30,000baht. so i am a bit wary.

THEY made a SMALL mistake , but it cost YOU 30,000 !!!

can i trust the lawyer ?

is the pope a jew.??

[ArtfulD]

While I cant answer your Q I was wondering about the 30 + 30 year lease, is it set in stone that you can renew the lease for a further 30 years or is it to be negotiated again at the end of the current 30? I was just wondering how it worked. While your leasing from your GF I was wondering how it would be from a third party.

[suegha]

Usually I would answer 'no problem' as this is something I have done myself. As long as it's a reputable law firm I'd have no problem. However, 30,000 mistake! That makes me a little weary. I suppose how much the total is may have a bearing...

Best of luck

เสือ

[Khun Jean]

If you AND your girlfriend have no bankaccoiunt have no bankaccount than you can use mine. I am really trustworthy so no ploblem.

Seriously, why should it be transfered to the laywer first? I would transfer the money to your girlfriend. As she is the one who does the actual purchase. If she doen't have an account set one up, takes a few hours. Then transfer it from her account to the seller of the land's account. This way the money is traceable and can be used as evidence that she paid for it. The amount you transfered to your girlfriend will be the money you have to pay for the lease, describe it as such.

I am not a lawyer, put i would do it this way, gives you a litle more control. If it is on the laywers backaccount who is stopping him to take it and disapear in the jungle.

[sinkorswim]

If you AND your girlfriend have no bankaccoiunt have no bankaccount than you can use mine. I am really trustworthy so no ploblem.

Seriously, why should it be transfered to the laywer first? I would transfer the money to your girlfriend. As she is the one who does the actual purchase. If she doen't have an account set one up, takes a few hours. Then transfer it from her account to the seller of the land's account. This way the money is traceable and can be used as evidence that she paid for it. The amount you transfered to your girlfriend will be the money you have to pay for the lease, describe it as such.

I am not a lawyer, put i would do it this way, gives you a litle more control. If it is on the laywers backaccount who is stopping him to take it and disapear in the jungle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeh but can i trust my girlfriend!!! maybe she would be of quicker than a working girls knickers

the amount owed is 400,000. the lawfirm i am using is a well know one that comes recommended by many people. the mistake was small it just that thai's being thai realised the could screw me for more money.

i either had to pay the 30,000 or lose 100 square meters from my land. (there was 1 number missing from the purchase agreement)

the greedy people did want another 120,000 but i told them where they could stick there land and that soon brought the price down.

if this does'nt work then Khun Jean send me your bank account details and i will send you the cash. im sure that way everything will be fine.

[sinkorswim]

While I cant answer your Q I was wondering about the 30 + 30 year lease, is it set in stone that you can renew the lease for a further 30 years or is it to be negotiated again at the end of the current 30?  I was just wondering how it worked.  While your leasing from your GF I was wondering how it would be from a third party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have a clause written in the lease stateing if the lease is not renewed at the end of the 30 years i am to be compensated 10,000,000 baht rising each year with inflation. this is also the case if the lease is broken.

i am also lead to belive that when i bulid a house on the land and register it in my name then the land cannot be sold without me being compensated for the full market value of the house therefore effectivley giving me ownership of the land.

really who knows what might happen i could lose the lot next week.

THIS IS THAILAND.

[ArtfulD]

While I cant answer your Q I was wondering about the 30 + 30 year lease, is it set in stone that you can renew the lease for a further 30 years or is it to be negotiated again at the end of the current 30?  I was just wondering how it worked.  While your leasing from your GF I was wondering how it would be from a third party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have a clause written in the lease stateing if the lease is not renewed at the end of the 30 years i am to be compensated 10,000,000 baht rising each year with inflation. this is also the case if the lease is broken.

i am also lead to belive that when i bulid a house on the land and register it in my name then the land cannot be sold without me being compensated for the full market value of the house therefore effectivley giving me ownership of the land.

really who knows what might happen i could lose the lot next week.

THIS IS THAILAND.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, ok well I find the clauses reasuring then, Im glad you can write something like that up. Yeh I appreicate This Is Thailand, but from what I read/see many other countries in the world can be just as dodgy unless your a citizen...The Spanish land grabs spring to mind, as well as the uncertainties of Eastern Europe property markets that so many people are buying into currently. Its in a countrys interest tho not to scare off foreign investors.

Thanks.

[Khun Jean]

I thought you were a bit wary, but you sound very sure of yourself.

Why bother to ask a question and then disregard everything. You want to experience everything by your self?

That compensation you wrote in the contract is worthless. The maximum contract length is 30 years period. OR did a lawyer tel you it was ok. The same one that made a little mistake costing you 30.000 baht is now making a mistake costing your land in 30 years. Ah well it is only 400.000 baht, so why bother at all.

One thing you said right. This is Thaland. I only think you don't know what it actually means!

Good luck.

[sinkorswim]

I thought you were a bit wary, but you sound very sure of yourself.

Why bother to ask a question and then disregard everything. You want to experience everything by your self?

That compensation you wrote in the contract is worthless. The maximum contract length is 30 years period. OR did a lawyer tel you it was ok. The same one that made a little mistake costing you 30.000 baht is now making a mistake costing your land in 30 years. Ah well it is only 400.000 baht, so why bother at all.

One thing you said right. This is Thaland. I only think you don't know what it actually means!

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the only question i asked was transfering money to my lawyer. i was just answering another post about the lease.

if anyone has a better way to buy land i am all ears.

i am not sure about anything with regards to buying land, but from the research i have done there is no other way to buy land. (correct me if i am wrong).

also it has been proven that if you sign and pay for 30 + 30 years lease then if the lease is not renewed then you can take the person to court.

this has been tried and tested in the thai courts.

one question i would like to ask is, if the other person has disappeared in 30 yearsand does not come to the land office to renew the lease what happens to the land.

cheers

[Sumitr Man]

For what it's worth, my .02c worth:

1. to the best of my knowledge, Thailand does not have solictors' accounting rules in the same manner as England has. Thus, there would be no division of the accounts were you to pay the lawyer in Thailand. Moreover, Thailand doesn't acknowledge trust law. Therefore, any action you have would be contratcual. Would I trust the lawyer, unlikely.

2. Your penalty clause, while looking very nice, is very likely uneneforceable under Thai law and would likely be struck down by the Thai courts. This would be dependent on the value of the transaction; but, say you have a 2m baht property and a 10m baht penalty clause, it is v. likely the Thai courts will not enforce it. So, it looks good, but likely means nothing.

3. setting inflation as a default interest rate is likely unenforceable as it is not a determinable amount. You would have done yourself far more favors by using the rate set in the CCC (7.5%): now, although not certain, it's likely you'll get nought.

4. You are right, the "option" to renew the 30+30 has been accepted by the Thai Supreme Court, BUT, only against the original lessor. In your case you are renting from a natural person (your gf) and if she were to die, then it is questionable whether or not you could enforce against her heirs. Here, whilst a lease is still enforceable against heirs, under the provisions of the CCC, the "option" to lease may not be.

SM

Edited March 24, 2005 by Sumitr Man

[Krub]

Hi,

I have just done the 30+30 years lease through a lawyer.

1. I would not trust the lawyer with the money. Get yourself over there for a few days if you want to be sure not to loose your money.

2. The small mistakes are all ove rthe place in Thailand (but not only in Thailand) My lawyer told me I could go ahead with a 30 years lease on a 'green' chanode. He came all the way from Chiang May (250km away) to register it to be told the chanode had to be the 'red ones'. Back he goes. I am still waiting for the chanode to be changed from green to red. That process is long but free to me (3.000 bahts to the owner) . When it will be 'red' the lawyer will come back (he said he would charge me 'only' for his travel expenses, a few thousand bahts as it was not my fault) Notice that he did not say it was his fault.

Just saying thia because I do not think it shows that the lawyer is not honnest juts that here in Thailand they might not view the time lost or little extra expenses as mistakes....

3. Only the first 30 years lease is enforcable to the lessor and the heirs. Only the land is recognized and the house evne in your name goes with the land after 30 years. There is a lot of uncertainties as to wether the second 30 years can be enforced especially if the original lessor is not there anymore.

4. I have decide that the cost of the land and propoerty could be amortized in 30 years (it is not very expensive in Thaialnd) and that the lessor would have more out of hid land if he re-leased to me than if he tried to sell or lease it to somebody else. Second hand house markets is non existant or nearly so especially in the countryside. At the time of the re-lease if all is blocked, I walk away and lease or rent somewhere else.

Never invest what you are not prepared to leave and walk away from

As I said a 30 years land lease and a very resonnable building cost for 30 years is fine in my opinion with the most likely thing to happen os that the lessor especially if she is your wife would agree to renew...

Good luck

(could you PM me your lawyer's details as a mater of interrrest ? Mine is in Chiang Mai too...

[Krub]

Hi,

I have just done the 30+30 years lease through a lawyer.

1. I would not trust the lawyer with the money. Get yourself over there for a few days if you want to be sure not to loose your money.

2. The small mistakes are all over the place in Thailand (but not only in Thailand) My lawyer told me I could go ahead with a 30 years lease on a 'green' chanode. He came all the way from Chiang May (250km away) to register it to be told the chanode had to be the 'red ones'. Back he goes. I am still waiting for the chanode to be changed from green to red. That process is long but free to me (3.000 bahts to the owner) . When it will be 'red' the lawyer will come back (he said he would charge me 'only' for his travel expenses, a few thousand bahts as it was not my fault) Notice that he did not say it was his fault.

Just saying this because I do not think it shows that the lawyer is not honnest juts that here in Thailand they might not view the time lost or little extra expenses as mistakes....

3. Only the first 30 years lease is enforcable to the lessor and the heirs. Only the land is recognized and the house even registerred in your name goes with the land after 30 years. There is a lot of uncertainties as to wether the second 30 years can be enforced especially if the original lessor is not there anymore.

You could have a separate loan agreement between the lessor and yourself which you would only have enforced of the lessor did not keep his promise but this would put most of the options in your camp and the lessor might not be agrreable to give you such a powerful tool.

4. I have decide that the cost of the land and propoerty could be amortized in 30 years (it is not very expensive in Thaialnd) and that the lessor would have more out of his land if he re-leased to me than if he tried to sell or lease it to somebody else. Second hand house markets is non existant or nearly so especially in the countryside. At the time of the re-lease if all is blocked, I walk away and lease or rent somewhere else.

Never invest what you are not prepared to leave and walk away from

As I said a 30 years land lease and a very resonnable building cost for 30 years is fine in my opinion with the most likely thing to happen is that the lessor especially if she is your wife would agree to renew...

Good luck

(could you PM me your lawyer's details as a mater of interrrest ? Mine is in Chiang Mai too...)

Edited March 24, 2005 by Krub

[sinkorswim]

For what it's worth, my .02c worth:

1. to the best of my knowledge, Thailand does not have solictors' accounting rules in the same manner as England has.  Thus, there would be no division of the accounts were you to pay the lawyer in Thailand.  Moreover, Thailand doesn't acknowledge trust law.  Therefore, any action you have would be contratcual.  Would I trust the lawyer, unlikely.

2. Your penalty clause, while looking very nice, is very likely uneneforceable under Thai law and would likely be struck down by the Thai courts.  This would be dependent on the value of the transaction; but, say you have a 2m baht property and a 10m baht penalty clause, it is v. likely the Thai courts will not enforce it.  So, it looks good, but likely means nothing.

3. setting inflation as a default interest rate is likely unenforceable as it is not a determinable amount.  You would have done yourself far more favors by using the rate set in the CCC (7.5%): now, although not certain, it's likely you'll get nought.

4. You are right, the "option" to renew the 30+30 has been accepted by the Thai Supreme Court, BUT, only against the original lessor.  In your case you are renting from a natural person (your gf) and if she were to die, then it is questionable whether or not you could enforce against her heirs.  Here, whilst a lease is still enforceable against heirs, under the provisions of the CCC, the "option" to lease may not be.

SM 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for the info.

it looks like i will have to fly back out there or trust my girlfriend not to do a runner with the money.

i think i will follow your advice and alter the lease to 2million baht going up 7.5% each year.

i do also have a will that states if she dies the property is left to me. I then have 12 months to sell on and arrange a new lease under thai law.

i know nothing is certain but even if it costs me 2.5 million for land and house then i think that is very reasonable for 30 years accomodation. even if it does go at the end then i will have to grin and bear it.

thanks for the reply.

[sinkorswim]

3. Only the first 30 years lease is enforcable to the lessor and the heirs. Only the land is recognized and the house even registerred in your name goes with the land after 30 years. There is a lot of uncertainties as to wether the second 30 years can be enforced especially if the original lessor is not there anymore.

You could have a separate loan agreement between the lessor and yourself which you would only have enforced of the lessor did not keep his promise but this would put most of the options in your camp and the lessor might not be agrreable to give you such a powerful tool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi

i do have a loan agreement as well but the lawyer told me the standard length is 10 years.

so i have to renew the agreement every 10 years. i will not use unless the lease is not renewed.

i hope this will be enough.

[yoshiwara]

The advice to be there for the purchase is wise.

The money transfer should only be to your Thai bank account and the money only paid for the property once the property titles have been transferred.

It is also probably better if the purchase was made through a company you have set up rather than direct transfer to GF.

If the lawyer has lost you the amount you have mentioned, then lose this lawyer.

Consult the bank for a recommended lawyer.

Good luck...

[Sumitr Man]

Please don't take this as a comment on your relationship, but:

[unlike the west ] it would be a major concern to me if someone trusted their lawyer in Thailand more than they did their gf. Thailand's lawyers [probably well deserved] likely have a worse reputation for f*cking people over than Thailand's bar girls

[sinkorswim]

Please don't take this as a comment on your relationship, but:

[unlike the west  ] it would be a major concern to me if someone trusted their lawyer in Thailand more than they did their gf.  Thailand's lawyers [probably well deserved] likely have a worse reputation for f*cking people over than Thailand's bar girls 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

its not really a case of not trusting my girlfriend, but 400,000 is approx 10 years wages. so the temptation will be very high.

to be honest i am thinking about sending the money to her account at least then i will find out if she can be trusted.

[Krub]

Please don't take this as a comment on your relationship, but:

[unlike the west  ] it would be a major concern to me if someone trusted their lawyer in Thailand more than they did their gf.  Thailand's lawyers [probably well deserved] likely have a worse reputation for f*cking people over than Thailand's bar girls 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

its not really a case of not trusting my girlfriend, but 400,000 is approx 10 years wages. so the temptation will be very high.

to be honest i am thinking about sending the money to her account at least then i will find out if she can be trusted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes 10 years wages is a lot but if she knows another 50 years wages is to be invested on her property plus pocket money for the next X years it might balance the 'bad' temptation

Good luck

[LaoPo]

Please don't take this as a comment on your relationship, but:

[unlike the west  ] it would be a major concern to me if someone trusted their lawyer in Thailand more than they did their gf.  Thailand's lawyers [probably well deserved] likely have a worse reputation for f*cking people over than Thailand's bar girls 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

its not really a case of not trusting my girlfriend, but 400,000 is approx 10 years wages. so the temptation will be very high.

to be honest i am thinking about sending the money to her account at least then i will find out if she can be trusted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. why didn't you set-up a bankaccount when you were in TH?

2. maybe you should send the money to her; It's just euro 8.000.- and just over US$ 10.400.- or Pounds 5600.--

3. if she runs away with it, at least you know where you stand... but...if she's clever and loves you...she won't run!

4. rather send it to her than your lawyer; if she's clever she can put him on 'hold' if necessary...

LaoPo

[udon]

Why not use one of this forum's sponsors to transfer the money and check out the deal?

Sunbelt or Indo-Siam.

30,000b mistake......

[sinkorswim]

Please don't take this as a comment on your relationship, but:

[unlike the west  ] it would be a major concern to me if someone trusted their lawyer in Thailand more than they did their gf.  Thailand's lawyers [probably well deserved] likely have a worse reputation for f*cking people over than Thailand's bar girls 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

its not really a case of not trusting my girlfriend, but 400,000 is approx 10 years wages. so the temptation will be very high.

to be honest i am thinking about sending the money to her account at least then i will find out if she can be trusted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. why didn't you set-up a bankaccount when you were in TH?

2. maybe you should send the money to her; It's just euro 8.000.- and just over US$ 10.400.- or Pounds 5600.--

3. if she runs away with it, at least you know where you stand... but...if she's clever and loves you...she won't run!

4. rather send it to her than your lawyer; if she's clever she can put him on 'hold' if necessary...

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi

i do have a bank account in thailand with bangkok bank but i can not transfer money from my account to the sellers over the phone, i have to be there in person.

i am leaning towards sending to my girlfriend but if everything is okay then at least i know i can trust her to a point and she will see that i have some trust in her.

if it does go tits up the i have lost £6,000.

mi pen rai.

cheers for the advice.