'red October'- Red Shirts Plan Major Rallies

[justanothercybertosser]

is she that? an internationally recognized forensic scientist? with the emphasis on scientist how is her scientific reputation amongst academic peers? on the natinal level and on the international level?

From what i have heard her reputation is very good - as a forensic scientist - not as a universal savior of the nation.

She is well known and respected in Europe and USA, and even more so after the Tsunami.

Her credentials are top notch and she is considered too honest in 'police circles' here.

All reasons why her stock doesn't go down too easily.

Actually - the tsunami was a slight dent in her reputation. Also foreign forensic teams had a few problems with her.

[webfact]

I have to remind everyone that the topic title reads

Red Shirts Plan Major Rallies

not about assisted suicide nor about Tsunami!

Please stay on the topic. Otherwise I will delete off-topic posts.

[brahmburgers]

The Reds appear to be gasping and grasping. They recently called off a rally in Bkk. The main reason, it appears, is that there was friction among the puppet-masters (T included) and funding was therefore constipated.

Their ranks appear to be thinning, and they're running out of ideas. Their latest demand is for gov't to give them a 'progress report' on the petition to pardon Thaksin. They should know it's a foregone conclusion that the pardon request won't be formally given to HM.

The Reds saw how months of sustained protesting by the Yellows gained some results, so the Reds thought they could use similar tactics to get what they wanted - which is to re-instate Thaksin at the helm. By doing so, Thaksin will thaw out the frozen assets and (the Reds believe) money will flow their way.

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet on the red horse. I'd be surprised to see it standing in the stable in six months.

[cyf]

I have to remind everyone that the topic title reads

Red Shirts Plan Major Rallies

not about assisted suicide nor about Tsunami!

Please stay on the topic. Otherwise I will delete off-topic posts.

kudos for her to stand against the corruption in the police, that she works for better standards in the investigation practices.

she has somekind of reputation, of doing it HER way. a self made person. she is well known, a celebrity. she i loved by the people, a folk hero. Thaksin promoted her, gave her the high profile cases. she sport that special hairdo. in glossy mags and for photo ops she is the top notch darling of the media. a strong personality.

but not as a scientist, she is it not on the forefront or play in the top leage of scientific research in the field of forensic pathology. she is quite good at the basics of autopsies and sucessful in selling gory true crime stories with her books, but she isn't a "Einstein" of forensics.

her collegues in thailand, the academic peers, see her in a different light. just look at the different autopsies and in the Hangthong Thammawattana/Noppadol Thammawattana case[/url] and the final outcome.

see above

[webfact]

Despite my reminder off-topic discussion continues

1 off-topic post deleted

[Plus]

Is that just your opinion, or is it supported by any study?

The massive local media interest before every Red Shirt rally should show you the opposite.

How about the study of local media interest?

It spikes before every major rally, but no one talks about their demands, only about possibility of them turning violent.

Look at the latest stories that got people talking about - Sondhi elected the party leader, Chalerm and his clip, Chavalit return, Niphon's resignation, Map Ta Put ruling, agreement on Constitution amendments, power play behind police chief and so on.

Notice the complete absence of reds in those discussions. Not just as newsmakers themselves, even as commentators. They have nothing to add to current political discourse.

"Thaksin remains in Dubai" - booring.

Why Red Shirts .. attack the Privy Council i really don't need to explain to you

.

Maybe you should - because no one knows why. They accuse Prem of being behind the 2006 coup, which is a three year old story and has no evidence behind it. Yeah, they have evidence that two Privy Councilors and a former judge had a dinner once and talked politics. After three years of attacks, couldn't they come up with something more interesting?

Notice how Prem and the council are absent form current discourse, too. There's plenty on Anupong's and other military guys politicking behind close doors, as you mentioned Chavalit sudden ascendancy, but nothing on PC position in police chief affair. Some say he backed Jumpol, but then they also say they back Abhisit who insisted on Prateep.

It's far more plausible explanation that reds focus on Prem just for their internal purposes of keeping the herd together - they need an enemy to unite them, with widespread apathy to their cause.

[caf]

Is that just your opinion, or is it supported by any study?

The massive local media interest before every Red Shirt rally should show you the opposite.

How about the study of local media interest?

It spikes before every major rally, but no one talks about their demands, only about possibility of them turning violent.

Look at the latest stories that got people talking about - Sondhi elected the party leader, Chalerm and his clip, Chavalit return, Niphon's resignation, Map Ta Put ruling, agreement on Constitution amendments, power play behind police chief and so on.

Notice the complete absence of reds in those discussions. Not just as newsmakers themselves, even as commentators. They have nothing to add to current political discourse.

"Thaksin remains in Dubai" - booring.

Why Red Shirts .. attack the Privy Council i really don't need to explain to you

.

Maybe you should - because no one knows why. They accuse Prem of being behind the 2006 coup, which is a three year old story and has no evidence behind it. Yeah, they have evidence that two Privy Councilors and a former judge had a dinner once and talked politics. After three years of attacks, couldn't they come up with something more interesting?

Notice how Prem and the council are absent form current discourse, too. There's plenty on Anupong's and other military guys politicking behind close doors, as you mentioned Chavalit sudden ascendancy, but nothing on PC position in police chief affair. Some say he backed Jumpol, but then they also say they back Abhisit who insisted on Prateep.

It's far more plausible explanation that reds focus on Prem just for their internal purposes of keeping the herd together - they need an enemy to unite them, with widespread apathy to their cause.

Plus, you make a lot of unsubstantiated suppositions. It reads like limitless propaganda. Perhaps admitting some contrarian facts occasionally and having a balanced view some of the time may be agood idea.

[Plus]

there are many serious blogs and websites who deal with related issues, to name a few: New Mandala, Bangkok Pundit, Prachatai. Read them, they are very educating (i bet you won't take the advice

From Bangkok Pandit, just for the occasion:

"On the reds, they don't really seem a threat for now. They need an issue to run with, but don't have any now. They can bring up all old issues, but it is a new one (ie a political scandal etc) which then need to put life back into the rallies."

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2009/10/...leadership.html

There's nothing new on Prachatai or New Mandala either, same old same old.

Fact is - no one is hiding the interesting and inspiring red agenda, they just don't have one.

[Plus]

Plus, you make a lot of unsubstantiated suppositions

What exactly are you talking about?

Did I get local headlines for the past couple of weeks completely wrong?

[brahmburgers]

I agree with Plus. When the media mention the Reds, it's about whether there will be violence. And, of course there has to be mention of Thaksin, because that's the primary reason T keeps funding the Reds, in order to keep his name on the front pages of newspapers - and it's working! Thaksin is such a scoundrel, and therefore ideal fodder for selling newspapers. Remember Saddam Hussein? Newspapers loved him also, for similar reasons.

Meanwhile, what do the Reds stand for, other than wanting to bring T back, and hoping they'll get a load of money in the process?

They used to talk of democracy, but even that mantra got to sounding hypocritical after awhile - ....something to do with beating a dead horse.

[caf]

Plus, you make a lot of unsubstantiated suppositions

What exactly are you talking about?

Did I get local headlines for the past couple of weeks completely wrong?

do you beleve newspaper headlines or do you think for yourself

you seem impervious to doubt

[Samuian]

Plus, you make a lot of unsubstantiated suppositions

What exactly are you talking about?

Did I get local headlines for the past couple of weeks completely wrong?

do you beleve newspaper headlines or do you think for yourself

you seem impervious to doubt

caf, relax!

Self reflecting whilst immersed in pure Soliloquy?

There simply are no headlines right now on the reds, they have to keep threatening with action,

not to vanish in the oblivion!

"rien ne va plus" - the die is cast....

Edited October 7, 2009 by Samuian

[animatic]

He's not the only one by a long shot.

He seems to at least have thought about the matters at hand, even if you don't agree.

Can't say the same for far too many posters here.

[baht&sold]

Speaking of headlines, in the news this morning there's an article which articulates 2 opposing views whilst exposing an underlying truth:

-Democrats insist on a public referendum for charter change

-Dems refuse to alter the charter just to suit a few politicians

-Thaksin called in on the big red phone to voice opposition to holding a public referendum (to decide on the six charter change proposals)

-Thaksin said the six areas had little to do with members of the public but would go along with a referendum for a switch to back to the 97 charter

(you know, the one which he and his 'allegedly' completely manipulated for personal gain;) Defenders of democracy - only when/if it suits for personal gain?

[animatic]

Ditto

[Insight]

Speaking of headlines, in the news this morning there's an article which articulates 2 opposing views whilst exposing an underlying truth:

-Democrats insist on a public referendum for charter change

-Dems refuse to alter the charter just to suit a few politicians

-Thaksin called in on the big red phone to voice opposition to holding a public referendum (to decide on the six charter change proposals)

-Thaksin said the six areas had little to do with members of the public but would go along with a referendum for a switch to back to the 97 charter

(you know, the one which he and his 'allegedly' completely manipulated for personal gain;) Defenders of democracy - only when/if it suits for personal gain?

But the red shirts are independent of Thaksin, standing up for democracy 'n all, so they should know to ignore him on this blatant, self-serving request.

Seriously.

[baht&sold]

Speaking of headlines, in the news this morning there's an article which articulates 2 opposing views whilst exposing an underlying truth:

-Democrats insist on a public referendum for charter change

-Dems refuse to alter the charter just to suit a few politicians

-Thaksin called in on the big red phone to voice opposition to holding a public referendum (to decide on the six charter change proposals)

-Thaksin said the six areas had little to do with members of the public but would go along with a referendum for a switch to back to the 97 charter

(you know, the one which he and his 'allegedly' completely manipulated for personal gain;) Defenders of democracy - only when/if it suits for personal gain?

But the red shirts are independent of Thaksin, standing up for democracy 'n all, so they should know to ignore him on this blatant, self-serving request.

Seriously.

And what of the oft quoted 'Generals' who control everything' (at the behest of the 'elite' etc) -

It just gets a bit muddy as one should explain if they're referring to Mr Thaksin's General's, Mr Chavalit's or???

And what of the Police, after years of successive 'allegedly' Thaksin-friendly chiefs... (you know, the guys under who jet-ski JJ's and airport rip-offs have thrived under;) - oh, forgot, Abhisit reached down, got a pair and replaced the 'allegedly' red-friendly Chief (thankfully- at least for now)

And what of Mr Thaksin's DSI, supposedly designed to protect the interests of "The People" of Thailand (er, well, that's what the TRT press release said at the outset, but it all went predictably pear-shaped almost from the get-go)

see: http://www.ahrchk.net/pr/mainfile.php/2006mr/345/

Then Abhisit kicked Mr T in the twins again by also removing Mr Thaksin's DSI Chief (attaboy Mark;) Now it appears there may finally be some movement on multiple unresolved cases including those involving 'influential persons'. Not the least of which is the murdered monk who complained of land encroachment 'allegedly' by a 'senior politician' and 'influential persons' in Chiang Mai back in '05 and after the DSI got the case, loads of pornography somehow got loaded onto his computer.... (discrediting a murdered monk posthumously, sick)

Still, some here are desperate to see this system which 'serves and protects' corruption, collusion and nepotism continue, by the many, for the few...

Democracy? Ain't <deleted>-all to do with it.

Edited October 7, 2009 by baht&sold

[Publicus]

Plus, you make a lot of unsubstantiated suppositions

What exactly are you talking about?

Did I get local headlines for the past couple of weeks completely wrong?

do you beleve newspaper headlines or do you think for yourself

you seem impervious to doubt

I respect knowledge, insight, thoughtfulness and a person who is informed and writes well. I always pay close attention to Plus' posts, especially his convicing rebuttals of the huge volume of BS that gets thrown around on these threads.

The Reds keep coming on and never relent. Someone who can hold up to stop 'em with consistency is a well prepared forumist. So I can recognize your frustrations. Learn to deal with it.

[Plus]

do you beleve newspaper headlines or do you think for yourself

I don't believe in a massive conspiracy to hide good red ideas from the public, especially on their sympathetic websites.

[brahmburgers]

do you beleve newspaper headlines or do you think for yourself

It's a rhetorical Q and probably not directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway. It's a combination. I, as well as you, get much info from newspapers, either printed or online, or TV news. If you choose to poop on all the info that comes down the tubes from the news media, that's your choice. I find much of it is believable. I also get some news first hand, though it's a trickle, ....same as it is for you, unless you're on the ground in a hundred places in Thailand, and ten thousand places worldwide.

I also trust in the value of paper money, though that's a different subject. You trust in paper money also, as does everyone. If not, you wouldn't receive payment for, or pay for anything. There is a certain amount of blind trust inherent in living in this world.

That having been said, I revert back to the topic, and yes, the Reds are a rather sad bunch lately. Like a distended mob turned out from a house after the mom says it's too late, and everybody has to go home. The mob members are a bit sauced and riled up and looking for something to stir up - though not sure what it is. Maybe they'll just go out and pee in someone's pool, or steal some hubcaps. They're like a bunch of people with lots of energy, but no real cause. The main thing fueling their enthusiasm is the guy with the most money paying them some token amounts for now, and making promises of lots more lucre later, if they only hang in there - keep wearing red shirts and acting like they've got a purpose.

[caf]

do you beleve newspaper headlines or do you think for yourself

It's a rhetorical Q and probably not directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway. It's a combination. I, as well as you, get much info from newspapers, either printed or online, or TV news. If you choose to poop on all the info that comes down the tubes from the news media, that's your choice. I find much of it is believable. I also get some news first hand, though it's a trickle, ....same as it is for you, unless you're on the ground in a hundred places in Thailand, and ten thousand places worldwide.

I also trust in the value of paper money, though that's a different subject. You trust in paper money also, as does everyone. If not, you wouldn't receive payment for, or pay for anything. There is a certain amount of blind trust inherent in living in this world.

That having been said, I revert back to the topic, and yes, the Reds are a rather sad bunch lately. Like a distended mob turned out from a house after the mom says it's too late, and everybody has to go home. The mob members are a bit sauced and riled up and looking for something to stir up - though not sure what it is. Maybe they'll just go out and pee in someone's pool, or steal some hubcaps. They're like a bunch of people with lots of energy, but no real cause. The main thing fueling their enthusiasm is the guy with the most money paying them some token amounts for now, and making promises of lots more lucre later, if they only hang in there - keep wearing red shirts and acting like they've got a purpose.

I respect your post, and the other replies to mine.

We all take information from wherever we can get it. I put less reliance on newspapers in thailand though i do listen to the points they make.

I don't know and dont want to know mob members of any colour. I'm not of course on the ground in ten thousand places but i do have some interesting conversations ( but never on anything but a one to basis)

thanks again for a respectful post.

( i thought peeing in someone's pool was very droll and was a good way of making your point. but remember mobs of all colours need to pee.

Edited October 7, 2009 by caf

[Plus]

Maybe reds should take out ads in classifieds:

URGENT - Mass demonstration needs an inspiring cause, the winner gets a free trip to Dubai.

They've got everything lined up already - speakers, clappers, t-shirts, they've got magazines and even a TV station for self-promotion. The only thing missing is a reason to demonstrate.

Maybe they can copy that from PAD, too - would do wonders for national reconciliation.

[mca]

Without character assassinating Chaturon, but what he has ever done that separates him from the pack? His only distinction is that he can carry presentable image and pontificate on democracy.

Sounds like he learned a lesson from the current PM then.

[Publicus]

A Dud October for the Reds . Do I hear the Fat Lady tuning up her voice backstage? (Or is it a wailing Poji?) It's anyway a Dud October so far given the Reds' new reliance on peaceful means. (More violence would be the death of the Reds for sure.)

Meanwhile the Yellows seem to have marshalled a newly energetic if equally vacuuous level of activity. The PAD is beginning to sound like an out of tune Greek chorus.

Maybe the two are getting tired or exhausted enuff to begin sitting down to start talking. Or izzat too much to hope for yet, or at all?

We know the best for both is to sit down, break out a few Changs and see if they could get through the nite without a brawl. Now that would be a breakthru.

Or maybe one Chang inspired beer hall brawl might get things out of each side's system to perhaps clear a path to discussions.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Publicus

[mca]

Maybe the two are getting tired or exhausted enuff to begin sitting down to start talking. O

A hoped for impossibility I sadly fear. They're the political equivalent of Tom and Jerry.

[Publicus]

Maybe the two are getting tired or exhausted enuff to begin sitting down to start talking. O

A hoped for impossibility I sadly fear. They're the political equivalent of Tom and Jerry.

And predictably both are equally juvenile. But I suppose 'rising' to the level of Jekyll & Hyde wouldn't be any better. If antagonists can't get things out of their system by a good old fashioned beer hall brawl, then I suppose there's no hope.

So say you?

[mca]

For sure. It's a case of "Never the twain may meet"

I knew a guy once who was an out and out racist against Pakistani people. No matter the cold, hard logic you presented him with to him they were all just scum. There was no point even trying to make the slightest attempt to change his point of view. He was so extreme to the point of stating that if his son married a Pakistani woman he would disown him. I feel the reds and yellows are the same. There will never be a common ground. No matter if you support the red or yellow manifesto or you loathe the other colour with a vengenance one thing must be admitted is that they're both equally guilty of dragging Thailand into the mire.

[Plus]

Their main disagreement is Thaksin. Beyond that they might find a lot of common ground and they might join forces in a highly hypothetical scenario that reds finally decide to ditch Thaksin from their agenda and start thinking of the country instead.

[caf]

For sure. It's a case of "Never the twain may meet"

I knew a guy once who was an out and out racist against Pakistani people. No matter the cold, hard logic you presented him with to him they were all just scum. There was no point even trying to make the slightest attempt to change his point of view. He was so extreme to the point of stating that if his son married a Pakistani woman he would disown him. I feel the reds and yellows are the same. There will never be a common ground. No matter if you support the red or yellow manifesto or you loathe the other colour with a vengenance one thing must be admitted is that they're both equally guilty of dragging Thailand into the mire.

There can as you rightly say never be common ground between the MOBS

But that does not necessarily apply to the average thinking Thai that wants some slow change.

[ballpoint]

For sure. It's a case of "Never the twain may meet"

Maybe their leaderships and hardcore supporters are twains that never meet, but I'm not so sure about the "mob". I personally know about a dozen people who have taken money from both sides to appear in their protests. Some of them stopped attending the red shirts protests following the Songkhran events, but the others will face a quandry if both groups protest at the same time later this month. I can see a bidding war by both sides in order to attract riot fodder.