Uk Student Visa

[kwon]

Hi

Following some great advice on this forum my girlfriend was able to get a UK tourist visa to visit me. Everything's going really well and we're now starting to think ahead about next steps and options for when it expires.

She would really like to study here, so I wondered if a student visa (to do an English course paid for by me) might be appropriate. English studies would help her with future employment if we decide to live in Thailand with her working there, and would help in future if we end up living in the UK. It would also allow us more time to work out our plans, which include the possibility of me going to work/live in Thailand. My concerns/questions are:

1. Is the student visa subject to the 6 month in 12 month rule, ie would she still need to wait in Thailand for 6 months after the tourist visa expires. Also does anyone know what the realistic timing for getting a student visa is?

2. Are we going to have a problem with reason to return - for the tourist visa she had her job which her employer is holding open during her holiday here, but if she came to study here that would probably fall away. Her boss though may be willing to offer her (in writing) a higher-up position for when she returns with an English qualification so maybe that would help?

3. Whilst she would genuinely be studying, part of the reason for the student visa would be for us to be together, so might that be frowned on - or is it fine that she wants to study and we want to be together so the answer is a UK student visa sponsored by me

4. If the student visa were refused for some reason and we then chose to go down the fiance visa route, would it prejudice that application as they might look on it that we only want the fiance visa because we couldn't get the student one?

Maybe this is a complete no-goer for one of the above issues or some other one, but really appreciate any thoughts.

[7by7]

That she has been in the UK as a visitor is no bar to her applying to return as a student. She will have to return to Thailand to apply.

The first thing she needs to do is find an educational establishment which is registered and licenced with the UKBA to offer her a course and sponsor her.

For more on student visas and the requirements, see Tier4 General & Child Student (INF 29) and TIER 4 (GENERAL) STUDENT of the Immigration Rules.

Being refused a student visa should not cause any difficulties when applying for any form of settlement visa.

Edit

If the course is for 6 months or less then she may be able to apply as a student visitor, but I think following this route means she may fall foul of the 'no more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK' convention for visitors; even though she would be applying under a different visitor category.

Edited October 3, 2009 by 7by7

[kwon]

Thanks 7by7. I've now compared the two and think the general student one will be best as she can study for longer than 6 months and work part-time. Though we need to make sure her english course is above european level A2 for that visa. I've also found a UKBA registerd college that will take her.

The rules say the applicant has to have £600 for every month they're here plus the course cost in her bank account for 28 days prior to application. That suggests I need to deposit a huge sum over £7000 in her account to cover say a year, which wouldn't be necessary in reality as it won't cost her anything like £600 a month for her to stay in my house and I'll pay for her course.

I had thought I could just provide a letter that I will fund her course and stay/she will live with me, and evidence of my finances, similar to the tourist visa. But other than a reference to parent/guardian the student visa guidance doesn't seem to talk about sponsors in the context of me paying the cost of her course and covering her living costs. "Sponsor" in this case just refers to the education provider confirming the course, so I'm struggling to find out how I provide and document my funding assistance in her visa application.

[paully]

But other than a reference to parent/guardian the student visa guidance doesn't seem to talk about sponsors in the context of me paying the cost of her course and covering her living costs.

Remember that, assuming the college/uni is a bona fide one and the course will be for a year, thus giving her leave to remain for a year, they'll clobber her (you if you're paying) for the tuition fees as an overseas student. To give an example, a Thai friend of the wife has just started an MSc course at uni costing a cool £11,000. UK or EU students only pay £3,200...

[7by7]

I had thought I could just provide a letter that I will fund her course and stay/she will live with me, and evidence of my finances, similar to the tourist visa.

Most students coming to the Uk either provide their own funding or have commercial sposnors, such as an employer. But I would have thought that if you provide a letter confirming that she will be staying with you and that you will be meeting her living expenses and course fees, and explaining why you are doing so, that this would be sufficient.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the new student visa system than I can help; or you could try asking the college that has agreed to offer her a course.

Alternatively you could ask the UKBA via one of the contact methods on this page.

[kwon]

Paully - it will be the full overseas rate but for an english course of 15 hours/week it is about 1000 per term so not as bad as a degree thankfully.

7by7 - I'm not having much luck with this sponsor point! The college said they don't deal with that area and as you say it's not very common for a boyfriend to want to sponsor. The UKBA said they can't answer as I have to ask the embassy in the country where she's applying. VFS Thailand said they can't provide advice and just sent me guidance on parents sponsoring.

I have a feeling that the fact the guidance only refers to the applicant's own bank balance or a parent sponsor means that a boyfriend can't. Seems odd though that I can sponsor her tourist visa but can't do the same for a student one - the living costs are the about same whether you're studying or on holiday. Also it would leave probably the only option being for me to bump up her Thai bank account to about £10000 (with probably a hefty overseas transfer fee), which makes no sense as none of it will be needed in reality as I'll pay her course cost directly and she would live with me for free.

[paully]

Paully - it will be the full overseas rate but for an english course of 15 hours/week it is about 1000 per term so not as bad as a degree thankfully.

That's good. They can really cane overseas students.

I think you may have to bump up her bank account, as you said, as the ECO may feel that she is really coming as your girlfriend (for which a fiance visa would be more appropriate) rather than primarily to study in the UK and then return.

[7by7]

I think it would be unwise to 'bump up' her bank account. Sudden, unexplained increases in an applicant's bank account always cause questions and arouse the ECOs suspicions.

The problem is that the ECO may suspect that she is not coming to the UK to study, but to stay with you.

Before the rules on overseas students were tightened up many people tried to use the student route to gain entry to the UK when they had no intention of actually attending the course. Many were successful and there were some English 'schools' who would sponsor applicants in the full knowledge that they would never see them! It got to the point where the standard response to many Thais applying for a visa to study English was "There are plenty of good English schools in Thailand, you can go to one of them!" Especially when the applicant had a British boy/girlfriend and even more so if they had recently returned from a visit to the UK.

Since the tightening up of the student visa rules and the requirement for all sponsoring educational establishments to be registered I have not heard of anyone getting such a response, but that doesn't mean it can't still happen.

So you need to convince the ECO that she genuinely wants to study English, and is not trying to use this as a route into the UK to be with you.

I suggest that you explain in a covering letter why she wants to study English and why she needs to do so in the UK and why you are meeting her course expenses and living costs. Obvioulsy include evidence that you can afford to do so.

Good luck.

[paully]

The problem is that the ECO may suspect that she is not coming to the UK to study, but to stay with you.

And if you write a letter sponsoring her and confirming that you will meet all her tuition fees and living costs yourself in addition to staying with you -as the OP originally intended to do- would the ECO not have more grounds for such suspicion?

[7by7]

Indeed, which is why I said "So you need to convince the ECO that she genuinely wants to study English, and is not trying to use this as a route into the UK to be with you."

However, a large amount of money suddenly appearing in her account would need to be explained and IMHO cause as many, if not more, difficulties than Kwon being her financial sponsor.

[the scouser]

Regular readers might recall a certain member (and I use the term in both of its meanings), who went by various nom de plumes, and who espoused a tick-box system for determining visa applications: well, he's got his wish.

In relation to student applications, we now have a points-based system. It is simply a matter of whether the visa applicant gains sufficient "points", and it is not for the visa officer to question how those points have been obtained. Consequently, a person applying for a student visa requires 40 points: 30 for a "visa letter" from the UKBA-registered educational establishment, and 10 for maintenance and funds.

If the OP were to bung 10 grand in his girlfriend's account, which must then be there for at least 28 days, and she were to otherwise obtain a "visa letter" from the UKBA-registered school, legally speaking she's home and dry. There are other trivial bits, but that's it in a nutshell.

Scouse.

[kwon]

Indeed, which is why I said "So you need to convince the ECO that she genuinely wants to study English, and is not trying to use this as a route into the UK to be with you."

However, a large amount of money suddenly appearing in her account would need to be explained and IMHO cause as many, if not more, difficulties than Kwon being her financial sponsor.

Thanks for further comments. I wonder if/why there's anything wrong with her wanting to study English in the UK (which will be hugely beneficial for her career-wise) AND wanting to stay with her boyfriend here?

I've now spoken to an OISC visa agent who advised that for student visas (i) there is no option as a UK partner to support/financially sponsor the applicant (ii) the ECO is not interested in whether or not the applicant is in a relationship, indeed there's nowhere to make reference to this anyway as it's irrelevant to a student visa application and (iii) in terms of maintenance, the ECO is just concerned that the funds are in the applicant's account and can see evidence that they've been there for 28 days - it makes no difference whether or not I've helped her achieve the adequate balance as the fact remains that she has control of these funds personally so can support herself. She would just need to show bank statements covering 28 days with a balance above the required threshold for the period.

I had planned to add details about our relationship in the application as I generally think you should give all the background in any visa application. Also my concern with the above approach is that the fact she's just been here on a tourist visa sponsored by me might raise the issue that part of the reason she wants to study here is to be with me, so if that isn't dealt with and explained in the application they might think we are not being genuine. BUT if she only wanted to be with me and didn't really intend to study here then surely we would just apply for a fiance visa. Or if she was dishonest she would just not go back after her tourist visit - something they can get absolute comfort on as she has returned to Thailand within the time limit.

Still not sure what the correct course of action is and transferring the money to her account is expensive and inpractical as she will stay with me for free so won't need it!

Edited October 8, 2009 by kwon

[the scouser]

I've now spoken to an OISC visa agent who advised that for student visas (i) there is no option as a UK partner to support/financially sponsor the applicant (ii) the ECO is not interested in whether or not the applicant is in a relationship, indeed there's nowhere to make reference to this anyway as it's irrelevant to a student visa application and (iii) in terms of maintenance, the ECO is just concerned that the funds are in the applicant's account and can see evidence that they've been there for 28 days - it makes no difference whether or not I've helped her achieve the adequate balance as the fact remains that she has control of these funds personally so can support herself. She would just need to show bank statements covering 28 days with a balance above the required threshold for the period....

Still not sure what the correct course of action is and transferring the money to her account is expensive and inpractical as she will stay with me for free so won't need it!

By your own admission, you've been told (and not by me (just for the record)) what the correct course of action is. If you choose to ignore it, well, as they say, you can lead a horse to water....

[CharlieB]

Indeed, which is why I said "So you need to convince the ECO that she genuinely wants to study English, and is not trying to use this as a route into the UK to be with you."

However, a large amount of money suddenly appearing in her account would need to be explained and IMHO cause as many, if not more, difficulties than Kwon being her financial sponsor.

Thanks for further comments. I wonder if/why there's anything wrong with her wanting to study English in the UK (which will be hugely beneficial for her career-wise) AND wanting to stay with her boyfriend here?

I've now spoken to an OISC visa agent who advised that for student visas (i) there is no option as a UK partner to support/financially sponsor the applicant (ii) the ECO is not interested in whether or not the applicant is in a relationship, indeed there's nowhere to make reference to this anyway as it's irrelevant to a student visa application and (iii) in terms of maintenance, the ECO is just concerned that the funds are in the applicant's account and can see evidence that they've been there for 28 days - it makes no difference whether or not I've helped her achieve the adequate balance as the fact remains that she has control of these funds personally so can support herself. She would just need to show bank statements covering 28 days with a balance above the required threshold for the period.

I had planned to add details about our relationship in the application as I generally think you should give all the background in any visa application. Also my concern with the above approach is that the fact she's just been here on a tourist visa sponsored by me might raise the issue that part of the reason she wants to study here is to be with me, so if that isn't dealt with and explained in the application they might think we are not being genuine. BUT if she only wanted to be with me and didn't really intend to study here then surely we would just apply for a fiance visa. Or if she was dishonest she would just not go back after her tourist visit - something they can get absolute comfort on as she has returned to Thailand within the time limit.

Still not sure what the correct course of action is and transferring the money to her account is expensive and inpractical as she will stay with me for free so won't need it!

Looking at what the scouser has written and what you have been advised, then your obvious course of action is to deposit a large sum into her account 30 days before her application is made and have her produce statements showing it is in there at the start and end of that period when she applies.

[Eff1n2ret]

Of course, knowing what to do and actually taking the decision to divvy up the requisite dosh are different matters. Once she's got 7-10 grand in her account she can decide whether or not she really, really wants to come to study English in the UK.

[paully]

I wonder if/why there's anything wrong with her wanting to study English in the UK (which will be hugely beneficial for her career-wise) AND wanting to stay with her boyfriend here?

The potential issue is whether she's really coming to study in the UK or to live with you and has found an excuse to stay for over 6 months. Student visas were not designed for your particular situation.

With all due respect to 7by7, writing a letter of sponsorship confirming you'll pay all the fees and costs and you want her to live with you will merely draw attention to your relationship - rather than her studies and future career - and possible doubt as to whether she really wants to study and return to Thailand at the end of the course like a good overseas student should. As Scouse and your OISC adviser have said, they won't really give a stuff where the money comes from (most students would have been transferred money by their parents/family anyway) as long as they can see it in her account.

So, transfer the money to her bank if you want her to come, as advised.

Edited October 9, 2009 by paully

[the scouser]

So, transfer the money to her bank if you want her to come, as advised.

And if you don't wish to transfer the money, she ain't gonna come (as a student, at least).

Bit of Catch 22 really: Joseph Heller was a prescient guy.

Anyway, the UKBA isn't generally daft. They realise that some people are going to baulk at transferring large amounts of money to their perceived loved-ones, just in case they turn out to be not-so-loved-ones, and this will counter-balance the withdrawal of the ECO's facility to refuse a student application because the facts don't add up.

Hey, the only way you can avoid flying these missions is by being mad, but you've got to be mad to fly them.

Scouse.

[7by7]

With all due respect to 7by7, writing a letter of sponsorship confirming you'll pay all the fees and costs and you want her to live with you will merely draw attention to your relationship

With all due respect to you, Paully, they already know about the relationship as they issued a visit visa on the basis of it and ahe is returning from her visit and almost immediately applying for a student visa.

However, Scouse is saying that under the points based system as long as she has sufficient points then this wont matter; but I still think it would be mistake not to mention it, especially as she will be living with him, as there is still a risk that the ECO could view this application as a ploy to return to the UK to be with Kwon rather than a genuine desire to study. I believe that this risk can be minimised by being up front about Kwon's involvement.

The advice from at least two professionals is that Kwon cannot offer to meet her fees and other expenses, but can transfer sufficient money into her account to meet the requirements. So if they are both serious about this, then that is what they should do.

[kwon]

Sorry for not being clearer in my last post but when I said I'm not sure of the course of action I meant in terms of how to approach the application. I think it's fairly conclusive that she will need the funds in her personal account. The two options being debated seem to be:

- Make no reference to our relationship and just provide the evidence listed to satisfy the rules. If it's purely a rule-based assessment then she will be fine. But I'm worried the ECO then links it to her previous tourist visa (which is very easy to do) and then doesn't have any of the explanation of the background within the application so perhaps thinks we're trying to pull a fast one, or

- Explain everything in a covering letter but maybe the fact you've explained everything about your relationship in the student visa (which the visa agent said was irrelevant) in itself provides weight to the argument that this isn't the appropriate type of visa

Another Catch-22!

We're not in any way trying to "play the rules" as she genuinely wants to study English here, but of course we also want to be together. Does that desire in some way mean applying for a student visa is not appropriate? I would hope not as, turning this on its head, it would definitely seem wrong to me that just because someone has an English boyfriend who they will stay with means you're not allowed to study here when you satisfy all the rules.

Edited October 10, 2009 by kwon

[paully]

With all due respect to 7by7, writing a letter of sponsorship confirming you'll pay all the fees and costs and you want her to live with you will merely draw attention to your relationship

With all due respect to you, Paully, they already know about the relationship as they issued a visit visa on the basis of it and ahe is returning from her visit and almost immediately applying for a student visa.

However, Scouse is saying that under the points based system as long as she has sufficient points then this wont matter; but I still think it would be mistake not to mention it, especially as she will be living with him, as there is still a risk that the ECO could view this application as a ploy to return to the UK to be with Kwon rather than a genuine desire to study. I believe that this risk can be minimised by being up front about Kwon's involvement.

The advice from at least two professionals is that Kwon cannot offer to meet her fees and other expenses, but can transfer sufficient money into her account to meet the requirements. So if they are both serious about this, then that is what they should do.

7by7 - No-one is asking Kwon to lie or mislead about his relationship with his girlfriend. The application this time, however, is a student visa and will primarily be dealt with on whether she has a place on an approved course, can afford it and will return to Thailand afterwards. As I've said as clearly as I know how highlighting the relationship between Kwon and her in a supporting letter would, in my humble view, be likely to pose more questions for the ECO than it would answer. You don't agree - but there it is I do know what advice Scouse gave - I can read, thanks, and quoted his advice earlier when, incidentally, I also advised Kwon to transfer money.

[7by7]

Paully, you have explained why you hold your opinion, and I have explained why I hold mine. It is now up to Kwon to decide on which course he wants to follow.

Why you seem to want to turn it into an argument is beyond me.

[paully]

^ Then why did you seek to try to explain Scouse's advice to the OP to me as if I was a 4 year old?

But, yes, everything's cool. I understood your position perfectly well before you responded to my post. Not everyone wants to attack you, don't be so thin-skinned

[7by7]

^ Then why did you seek to try to explain Scouse's advice to the OP to me as if I was a 4 year old?

Errr, I didn't: as can be easily seen if you take that phrase in context with the whole paragraph.

Perhaps you should thicken your skin too.

[brianw]

Eff1-2 net has a point I am sure it must have crossed everyones mind but not mentioned deposit £10000 and never see her or money again

[paully]

It comes down to trust, that's true.

[kwon]

I wouldn't consider the helping her with a student visa or any other visa in the first place if I didn't trust her, so that's not an issue.

Still torn between the two application approaches (explain relationship or not) as can see an argument for both. Unless anything sways it one way in the mean time maybe I'll just have to toss a coin!

[kwon]

Hi

Just to say thanks for the advice and discussion on this thread and to let you know my girlfriend got her student visa within 5 days of applying and is now back with me and studying English until Feb 2011.

Regards

Kwon

[bobrussell]

Good news!

It is a shame that so many people seem to have had really negative experiences so they are cynical about Thai gf's only being after money. I know a number of English girls that, given £10k in their bank account would disappear but a heck of a lot more that are honest and straight forward. Thai girls are no different, there are good and bad!

I have found the Border Agency straight forward to deal with, if you are honest and well prepared visas will generally be issued fairly. The biggest bugbear for most of us in 2009 was the extraordinary delays in processing visas and the impact that had. Five days to get a visa is as it should be!

Best of luck with the English course and enjoy being in the UK!!!

[paully]

Well done, Kwon.

[annnick]

hi kwon

can i ask which route you took mate? as this is exactly what im going through now

cheers mate