The Gauntlet Thrown Down For Tex/mex Chili.

[sceadugenga]

A mate and I lunched at Don's Cafe at Chiang Rai today. I ordered the mixed Mexican plate, which I enjoyed and he, a hot curry addict, went for the Chili con carne.

After a few mouthfuls he declared himself seriously disappointed. Nowhere near hot enough.

I'm no expert on Tex Mex food so I suggested adding some of the excellent selection of chili sauces on the table. He poured in the the Haberno with no great enthusiasm.

It's not the same he moaned, it needs to be cooked into it.

So what's the general opinion? should basic chili be mild and doctored at the table?

Or should it arrive literally smoking?

[PeaceBlondie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_con_carne doesn't say so, but chili was born in San Antonio in the 1700's, when Texas was part of Mexico and Spain. I heard that some spices came from from the Spanish settlers from the Canary Islands.

Chili con carne is the official state dish of Texas. I doubt there is an official recipe, and I doubt it must destroy tongues.

[NanaFoods]

Chile con Carne (chilli for short) is one of those dishes where the recipe varies greatly from town to town, and from chef to chef. This why chile con carne cook-offs are so intense in competition. There are mild recipes to extremely hot. But my take is that really serious chile con carne aficionados like their chilli eye-watering and nose-running hot.

Some achieve this with any number of chiles ranging from cayenne to jalapenos (not my preference, but I do like cayenne chilies in my chile con carne) - dry chiles and/or fresh. In my opinion, habaneros are not really appropriate, but I've seen some people employ these as well just to make it so hot that its only edible on a dare with cash involved.

However, for that distinct chile con carne flavor, not for the heat factor, larger amounts of other chiles are used such as dried new Mexico, California chiles, ancho, etc., amongst a plethora of other possibilities depending on the chef.

I would agree with your friend that adding a hot pepper sauce at the table is not optimal, as one would be adding vinegar as well, which is typically in a table sauce.

This is my take, anyway....I hope this helps.

But I am sure JR Texas should an opinion on this as well

[JR Texas]

Chile con Carne (chilli for short) is one of those dishes where the recipe varies greatly from town to town, and from chef to chef. This why chile con carne cook-offs are so intense in competition. There are mild recipes to extremely hot. But my take is that really serious chile con carne aficionados like their chilli eye-watering and nose-running hot.

Some achieve this with any number of chiles ranging from cayenne to jalapenos (not my preference, but I do like cayenne chilies in my chile con carne) - dry chiles and/or fresh. In my opinion, habaneros are not really appropriate, but I've seen some people employ these as well just to make it so hot that its only edible on a dare with cash involved.

However, for that distinct chile con carne flavor, not for the heat factor, larger amounts of other chiles are used such as dried new Mexico, California chiles, ancho, etc., amongst a plethora of other possibilities depending on the chef.

I would agree with your friend that adding a hot pepper sauce at the table is not optimal, as one would be adding vinegar as well, which is typically in a table sauce.

This is my take, anyway....I hope this helps.

But I am sure JR Texas should an opinion on this as well

OK.........you are right..........Chile con Carne varies widely in terms of heat if you are talking about Mom and Pop cooking.........in most restaurants my experience has been that the dish itself is not that hot and if you want it really hot you eat jalapeno peppers with it.

That is a smart thing to do if you are a Chef--if you want it hotter, just eat some peppers with it.

Habaneros are the last thing I would put in Chile con Carne or any other Mexican dish......way too hot and kills the taste of the food.......never have understood why they are so popular. Maybe it is a male thing...........sort of like opening a beer can with your teeth. Why?

Typical dish is chile with beans..........cheese and chopped onions on top.........served with corn tortilla or crackers (American saltine crakers). Now I am hungry.

Back in the Nation of Texas we also put it on Fritos (sp?).........also on top of hot dogs (famous chile dogs). Also on Ice Cream.......yuuuuuummmmm.

[NanaFoods]

OK.........you are right..........Chile con Carne varies widely in terms of heat if you are talking about Mom and Pop cooking.........in most restaurants my experience has been that the dish itself is not that hot and if you want it really hot you eat jalapeno peppers with it.

That is a smart thing to do if you are a Chef--if you want it hotter, just eat some peppers with it.

Habaneros are the last thing I would put in Chile con Carne or any other Mexican dish......way too hot and kills the taste of the food.......never have understood why they are so popular. Maybe it is a male thing...........sort of like opening a beer can with your teeth. Why?

Typical dish is chile with beans..........cheese and chopped onions on top.........served with corn tortilla or crackers (American saltine crakers). Now I am hungry.

Back in the Nation of Texas we also put it on Fritos (sp?).........also on top of hot dogs (famous chile dogs). Also on Ice Cream.......yuuuuuummmmm.

Yes, I was speaking mostly about home cooking... I havent really eaten much chilli in restaurants, but have seen various restaurant/diner signs claiming "the hottest chili in town", etc. But I would agree, from a restaurant's point of view, it would be better to cook it up mild so as to accommodate the most palates. I also recall a few of the canned chile con carne offerings in mild, medium and hot formulations.

Yes, luv cheese and onions on top. That's proper.

Chilli dogs... yum.

Havent heard of serving it over Fritos - sounds interesting. Definitely beer food.

But ice cream? Really? Wow.

I've also heard of serving it over noodles and even rice...

I think you forgot the ol' chilli cheese fries (with onions, of course) - now that's good beer food as well.

Now I'm getting hungry too....

Edited October 8, 2009 by ChefHeat

[JR Texas]

OK.........you are right..........Chile con Carne varies widely in terms of heat if you are talking about Mom and Pop cooking.........in most restaurants my experience has been that the dish itself is not that hot and if you want it really hot you eat jalapeno peppers with it.

That is a smart thing to do if you are a Chef--if you want it hotter, just eat some peppers with it.

Habaneros are the last thing I would put in Chile con Carne or any other Mexican dish......way too hot and kills the taste of the food.......never have understood why they are so popular. Maybe it is a male thing...........sort of like opening a beer can with your teeth. Why?

Typical dish is chile with beans..........cheese and chopped onions on top.........served with corn tortilla or crackers (American saltine crakers). Now I am hungry.

Back in the Nation of Texas we also put it on Fritos (sp?).........also on top of hot dogs (famous chile dogs). Also on Ice Cream.......yuuuuuummmmm.

Yes, I was speaking mostly about home cooking... I havent really eaten much chilli in restaurants, but have seen various restaurant/diner signs claiming "the hottest chili in town", etc. But I would agree, from a restaurant's point of view, it would be better to cook it up mild so as to accommodate the most palates. I also recall a few of the canned chile con carne offerings in mild, medium and hot formulations.

Yes, luv cheese and onions on top. That's proper.

Chilli dogs... yum.

Havent heard of serving it over Fritos - sounds interesting. Definitely beer food.

But ice cream? Really? Wow.

I've also heard of serving it over noodles and even rice...

I think you forgot the ol' chilli cheese fries (with onions, of course) - now that's good beer food as well.

Now I'm getting hungry too....

The chile and fritos thing is really good.........but I have only seen fritos in Cambodia (the new Lucky Market was importing them the last time I was there). Think of a chile dip with frito corn chips with cheese and onions.

(Why can't Thailand import Fritos Corn Chips..........a mystery.......they have so many disgusting chips.........nothing made with corn that is good.)

I have never eaten fries with chile cheese.............might be good, but now I do remember a place in Texas that served nothing but stuffed baked potatoes and one item was baked potato stuffed with chile, cheese, onions, and sour cream......really good Texas diet food.

And of course you know I was joking about pouring chile over ice cream

[maxjay]

I enjoy chili con carne over a baked potato, shredded cheese all over it.

(Why can't Thailand import Fritos Corn Chips..........a mystery.......they have so many disgusting chips.........nothing made with corn that is good.)

Frito Corn Chips in the U.S. are produced by Frito-Lay. Since Thailand has Lays chips...don't know why we don't have Fritos?

In Thailand there is Classic, Sour Cream & Onion, Cheese & Onion, Mexican Bar-B-Q, Japanese Nori Seaweed. Flavours also come and go usually with an international theme, for example: French Mayonnaise, Balsamic Vinegar and Salt (England), Garlic Soft Shelled Crab (Hong Kong), Soy Sauce, Salmon Terriyaki (Japan), Lobster, Bacon & Cheese (America). Also traditional "Thai" flavors include Tom Yum, Thai Chili Paste, Thai Seafood Dip, Chili and Lime. Popular flavors are often kept in circulation longer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay%27s

Here is some trivia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frito_Bandito

Fritos is the name of a brand of corn chips made by Frito-Lay. Originally called Fritatas, Elmer Doolin was so taken with the bag of corn chips served with his lunch in San Antonio, Texas that he paid $100 for the recipe. In 1932, he started the Frito Corporation. Original Fritos ingredients are limited to whole corn, corn oil, and salt.

The Frito Bandito was the cartoon mascot for Fritos corn chips from 1967 to 1971. The Bandito was created by the Foote, Cone & Belding Agency, and animated by Tex Avery. The character was voiced by Mel Blanc, who used an exaggerated Mexican accent not unlike another character of his, Speedy Gonzales. The Frito Bandito spoke broken English and robbed people of their Frito corn chips, a reference to the "Mexican bandit" stereotype in western movies.^{[citation needed]} He also complained that he was being pursued by the "Frito Bureau of Investigation".

Pressure from the National Mexican-American Anti-Defamation Committee and others prompted an update to the character; his gold tooth and stubble were eliminated and his hair combed. The character was completely retired in 1971.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frito_Bandito#cite_note-0} He was initially replaced by the Muncha Bunch, a group of cowboys, which then were replaced by W.C. Fritos, modeled after comedian W.C. Fields.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frito_Bandito#cite_note-1}

The Frito Bandito campaign included a song sung to the tune of the well-known traditional Mexican song "Cielito Lindo":

Aye, yii, yii, yiiii, I am dee Frito Bandito. I like Frito's Corn Chips. I love them, I do. I want Frito's corn chips. I'll take them, from you.

Later ads used an alternate verse:

Aye, yii, yii, yiiii, Oh, I am the Frito Bandito. Give me Frito Corn chips And I'll be your friend. The Frito Bandito You must not offend.

The "

cleaned

" up Frito Bandito:

Edited October 8, 2009 by maxjay

[Ulysses G.]

I really miss Fritos too. Thailand used to import Planters corn chips in a can and I loved them, but they stopped when the baht collapsed in 1997.

I get imported Doritos sometimes. They are not as good, but better than the made in Thailand brands.

[Tim207]

I saw small bags of Fritos at tops in Chantaburi last march. Never used them with chili, I always eat chili over ramen noodles.

[PeaceBlondie]

In Port Isabel Texas I would ride to Wal-Mart just to eat a Frito chili pie with cheese. Yum.

[sabaijai]

'If you know beans about chili, you know that chili has no beans.

'Most chili cookoffs do not allow beans, and a chili will be disqualified if it contains such ingredients, considered filler.'

The Official State Food of Texas—Chili

The following song has become the anthem at every Terlingua Chili Cook-Off, where no chili with beans recipes are allowed to compete.

If You Know Beans About Chili,

You Know That Chili Has No Beans

by Ken Finlay, singer, songwriter,

and owner of Cheatham Street Warehouse

(a music hall in San Marcos), written in 1976.

You burn some mesquite

And when the coals get hot

You bunk up some meat

And you throw it on a pot.

While some chile pods and garlic

And comino and stuff

Then you add a little salt

Till there’s just enough

You can throw in some onions

To make it smell good

You can even add tomatoes

If you feel like you should

But if you know beans about chili

You know that chili has no beans

If you know beans about chili

You know it didn’t come from Mexico

Chili was God’s gift to Texas

(Or maybe it came from down below)

And chili doesn’t go with macaroni

And dammed Yankee’s don’t go with chili queens;

And if you know beans about chili

You know that chili has no beans

24 October 1977, Daily Review (Hayward, CA), “Plain ol' chili wins,” pg. 6:

But none of the recipes called for beans. As the song goes, “If you know beans about chili, you know chili has no beans.”

[JR Texas]

In Port Isabel Texas I would ride to Wal-Mart just to eat a Frito chili pie with cheese. Yum.

I actually forgot the name of it until you said it: "Chili Pie" (aka. Frito Pie). In the picture that is shredded cheddar cheese on top (not the best picture).

[tutsiwarrior]

yeah, real chili has no beans. A neighbor in Venice, CA once made some chili and it was one of the most memorable meals I've ever had; just beef, chiles, onions, garlic and spices (lots of cumin). It was plenty hot but not 'tear the top of yer head off' hot, but 'sneak up on you' hot; the effect was gradual. I've only ever had that sensation in a schezuan restaurant in Beijing.

she was a california girl, btw, and didn't reveal where she got the recipie...the preparation and cooking took all day...

[Gippy]

I'm hungry now as well. Can anyone share a recipe for a Texas style chili that can easily be made here? I found a couple of recipes but they all involve grinding up chillies I have never heard of and wouldn't know where to find in Thailand. It doesn't have to be 100% authentic, just tasty!

[avidflyer]

I started eating chili in San Antonio back in the 40's when there were only three (that I know of) "Mexican" restaurants in town. As I remember, the chili was very similar at each of the three eateries. (My family preferred "La Fonda" but we also ate at the "The original" and I can't think of the name of the third one. It is my belief that a chili similar to those of yesteryear can be made in

Thailand in the following manner:

1 lb lean beef in small 1/2 inch cubes

1 onion chopped a bunch

2 tlbs.of garlic finely chopped

1/2 cup oil, lard or bacon grease

2 tspns ground cumin

4 Tlbsps Durkee chili powder (similar to the old Texas brand "Gebharts")

salt to taste

Brown meat in oil and then add everything else and cook until onion is soft. add 2 cups water scraping the bottom of the pan until all the good stuff is mixed up. Reduce heat, cover and simmer, adding water as necessary to keep it wet, until meat is tender.

At this point some people added some mesa harena (corn tortilla flour) mixed with water to thicken the chili – and stretch it. But not all did and you can't find it in LOS, so forget it. At the table this thin curry was spooned over rice and/or beans and/or rolled into freshly cooked corn tortillas and/or eaten plain.

Today I make it more industrial strength by adding a bunch of chopped chilies to the onions and garlic and generally adding more of the spices. I also add chopped tomatoes. And I must admit it’s good with raw onion and cheddar cheese (and smashed fritos – learned that at school), but that is not the old way…

[PeaceBlondie]

My first chili might have been at Mexiteria at McCreless Mall, San Antonio. Or at LaFonda. Or at one of Santos Westrup's restaurants.

[sceadugenga]

I bring a spice called "Mexican Chili Powder", which is made by several spice brands, from Australia. I think it should be available here in Farang orientated super markets like Rimping and Foodland. It's not hot but supplies the flavour for the chili.

I quite shamelessly use it to cook pork and chicken versions of this great American dish and add whatever local chilies I can find to provide the heat.

That's about all you need and you can add beans and whatever vegetables take your fancy.

When all else fails turn to good old Tabasco sauce for a bit of extra zing.

Edit: When trying to soften the local dried red kidney beans breaks your heart, and your #*!*#* teeth, used tinned beans that are readily available.

The dried black ones work well, just keep changing the water when you soak them or you'll have black chili.

Edited October 11, 2009 by sceadugenga

[NanaFoods]

Edit: When trying to soften the local dried red kidney beans breaks your heart, and your #*!*#* teeth, used tinned beans that are readily available.

When in the mood for chilli with beans, I find the local red kidney beans work just fine. Just need to soak them overnight, and boil them for a few hours (if my memory serves me) before adding them to the chilli, where they will finish off.

[sceadugenga]

We had a lengthy thread on this a while back. The one's I've come across, and I had many agree with me, could be soaked a week and boiled over night without achieving the right texture.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

We had a lengthy thread on this a while back. The one's I've come across, and I had many agree with me, could be soaked a week and boiled over night without achieving the right texture.

I agree that the dried red kidney beans sold in Thailand are too tough for chili. I tried soaking the beans 24 hours, then slow cooking for 48 hours with a ham hock, but, they were still a little too tough for chili. However, the beans were good in soup. Both canned red kidney beans and chili beans are available at Foodland. I mix the two and it works great for homemade chili. I try to make chili once a week. I learned to eat chili over rice in Hawaii, where it is very popular. There's a big chain called Zippy's there, that sells chili over rice, and you can buy their chili at Shirokiya and in Vegas. Interestingly, they use bacon in addition to ground beef, which is a fine addition.

[tutsiwarrior]

on past threads I'm the one that's complained the most about the local dried kidney beans and their failure to communicate...I even brought a pressure cooker in my baggage from Jeddah to pursue an industrial approach to the problem and still no luck. I attribute the failure to the beans at the amphur Suphan tescos where most of the products on their shelves have no business being there for various reasons.

If you want to do a quick chili with beans you need ground beef, canned kidneys and tomato sauce none of which are available where I live. I brought a 800W meat grinder from Bahrain to process the shoe leather that passes for beef around here but one out of three don't bode well for victory...

oh, woe is me...(and I aint' goin' back to where I came from to pre-empt the predictable response )

Edited October 12, 2009 by tutsiwarrior

[PeaceBlondie]

Even in San Antonio, the El Paso or Pace brand offered cans of prepared chili, with or without beans...but their commercials said if the chili came from New York City, hang the cook!.

[tutsiwarrior]

Even in San Antonio, the El Paso or Pace brand offered cans of prepared chili, with or without beans...but their commercials said if the chili came from New York City, hang the cook!.

Hormel ain't half bad for canned chili, they also do a good line in canned tamales...

[Tim207]

If you want to do a quick chili with beans you need ground beef, canned kidneys and tomato sauce none of which are available where I live.

Lotus in Chantaburi has kidney beans on the make your own salad bar. If I could only find tomato sauce I would be good. There are lots of products marked tomato sauce but when I check the ingredients list they are actually ketchup.

BTW: I have been told that lotus will grind their packaged beef for you if you ask.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Tim207

[NanaFoods]

Even in San Antonio, the El Paso or Pace brand offered cans of prepared chili, with or without beans...but their commercials said if the chili came from New York City, hang the cook!.

Hormel ain't half bad for canned chili, they also do a good line in canned tamales...

Before I started making my own chilli, in my youthful school years, I used to eat a lot of Dennison's -- not sure why. Never tried the El Paso or Pace, but I think I bought Hormel whenever I got bored with Dennison's.

Not sure which brand, but there was one that offered a "with jalapenos" option.

On the topic of Red Beans:

I must be getting different ones, or different source, or something... they always seem to come out tender for me, especially in the slow cooker. I haven't used them for quite a while, so my memory is fuzzy, but its possible I picked them up at Lotus - not bulk, but packaged in a bag.

[sabaijai]

My first chili might have been at Mexiteria at McCreless Mall, San Antonio. Or at LaFonda. Or at one of Santos Westrup's restaurants.

I remember Mexiteria, used to eat there a lot, but it wasn't at McCreless Mall. The one I ate at was in some 1950s strip mall like Sunset Ridge I think. Perfect for teenagers with big appetites and little money. I still enjoy the original La Fonda on N Main St. It's a tradition for me and my dad to eat there at least once whenever I visit him in San Antone. I don't remember seeing chili on the menu at La Fonda though. Austin has the best chili these days anyway

http://www.lafondaonmain.com/#lunch

[metisdead]

I started eating chili in San Antonio back in the 40's when there were only three (that I know of) "Mexican" restaurants in town. As I remember, the chili was very similar at each of the three eateries. (My family preferred "La Fonda" but we also ate at the "The original" and I can't think of the name of the third one. It is my belief that a chili similar to those of yesteryear can be made in

Thailand in the following manner:

1 lb lean beef in small 1/2 inch cubes

1 onion chopped a bunch

2 tlbs.of garlic finely chopped

1/2 cup oil, lard or bacon grease

2 tspns ground cumin

4 Tlbsps Durkee chili powder (similar to the old Texas brand "Gebharts")

salt to taste

Brown meat in oil and then add everything else and cook until onion is soft. add 2 cups water scraping the bottom of the pan until all the good stuff is mixed up. Reduce heat, cover and simmer, adding water as necessary to keep it wet, until meat is tender.

At this point some people added some mesa harena (corn tortilla flour) mixed with water to thicken the chili – and stretch it. But not all did and you can't find it in LOS, so forget it. At the table this thin curry was spooned over rice and/or beans and/or rolled into freshly cooked corn tortillas and/or eaten plain.

Today I make it more industrial strength by adding a bunch of chopped chilies to the onions and garlic and generally adding more of the spices. I also add chopped tomatoes. And I must admit it’s good with raw onion and cheddar cheese (and smashed fritos – learned that at school), but that is not the old way…

I came across a similar recipe recently, instead of beef the recipe called for pork shoulder cut in cubes and a can of tomatoes with juices (crush the tomatoes), it turned out rather good.

[PeaceBlondie]

San Antonio...we went to the later LaFonda on far N Broadway, in the Heights, nearly next to Pat's Drugs, almost in a basement...the Bun and Barrel on Austin Highway...I knew a kid who lived in the VA Cemetery, with a short-wave radio in his basement...the world epicenter of Tex-Mex (not the cemetery)...Geyer's Ice Cream...Buckhorn Saloon...the breweries...Sunken Gardens...Raspas on Alamo Plaza...Ozzie Osbourne pissing on the Alamo...

[sceadugenga]

on past threads I'm the one that's complained the most about the local dried kidney beans and their failure to communicate...I even brought a pressure cooker in my baggage from Jeddah to pursue an industrial approach to the problem and still no luck. I attribute the failure to the beans at the amphur Suphan tescos where most of the products on their shelves have no business being there for various reasons.

If you want to do a quick chili with beans you need ground beef, canned kidneys and tomato sauce none of which are available where I live. I brought a 800W meat grinder from Bahrain to process the shoe leather that passes for beef around here but one out of three don't bode well for victory...

oh, woe is me...(and I aint' goin' back to where I came from to pre-empt the predictable response )

Toots, I found one of the best substitutes for tomato stuff is the tomato juice most of the juice companies make here.

I use it for chili and also in pasta sauce, it gives it that good rich tomato color with the tomato taste.

I've also found that if you buy beef in Lotus, Big C etc and give it back to the butchers they will grind/mince it for you.

However I do buy mostly locally slaughtered beef now and have trained my Mrs to be there at the kill and leap on the dying beast and come away with the back fillets. They can still be a bit tough but at least you can work with them. A good wacking with the back of a cleaver on some thin slices and you have the makings for a passable steak and onion sandwich.

Sceadugenga the Carnivorous.

[jfchandler]

I haven't had any problem with cooking locally sourced dry kidney beans for use in homemade chili and such...

My original recipe suggested cooking them, after pre-soaking, in my electric, smart rice cooker for two full cycles. But the first time I tried, the beans were pretty much done after the first cycle... And by the second full cycle, they were pretty much the consistency of mashed potatoes...

So after the first time, one full rice cooker cycle plus a bit extra water near the end seemed to do the trick just fine.