Chiang Mai Vs Chiang Rai

[davidgtr]

This has been a real interesting thread, along with the Chiang Mai vs Phuket thread (well done Harmonica for winding up the boys) & Id like to put in my 25 Satangs worth.

Picking your little patch of paradise to settle down in North Thailand / Thailand is a tough & very personal call.

I’ve been in Chiang Mai city centre for 21 years now, and like many others am not so happy with the traffic and pollution nowadays.

I moved to Cnx from Bkk years ago, when I decided that I wanted to live in Thailand but could not face the thought of living in a polluted Bkk for another 20+ years.

Now years down the road, it is amazing to go to Bkk & find that the air there is actually cleaner than Chiang Mai!

So what to do, move back to Bkk or move on from Chiang Mai?

Id like to move, but (1) would miss the superb facilities we have so close at hand in Cnx and (2) I think that wherever I moved to in North Thailand I would be confronted with the same environmental problems in less than 10 years, such is the rate of development going on.

On the positive side I hope, perhaps foolishly, that Chiang Mai is only going thru a passing phase & that in a few years time the rate of development will slow down & more attention will be paid to environmental problems & the quality of life.

Fortunately I spend a lot of time on the road, motorcycle touring, so are not always trapped at home in Chiang Mai. An excellent quality of Chiang Mai, is that it is smack bang in the middle of North Thailand with heaps of loops to do, when you want to getaway from the city for a break & some fresh air. In Chiang Mai, you are not stuck at the end of the road, with only a road in and / maybe a road out. There’s nowhere in the North that offers such good touring loop options as Chiang Mai.

Under the current government, and most likely the next one, it seems to be all development with little respect for the environment and quality of life. Development is good for business, & supposedly that’s what we all need.

This policy is unlikely to change soon, & with almost fanatical trade promotions & the opening of the borders it will be open slather, which is only good for business. Develop at all cost. The more cars, & modern cities & facilities we can build the better. Don’t worry about the environment & the quality of life, this can be fixed later on with new government projects (& contracts for the boys.)

So with this sort of policy, wherever you go in North Thailand you are going to be confronted with disturbing environmental issues in the near future. When this happens, should you pack up & move on again because life has caught up to you & your dreams?

Nowadays I think that almost wherever you are in the world, people are complaining about the degradation of the environment. It aint what it used to be like 20 years ago. Perhaps your grandparents even said this once upon a time; but they probably did not complain about too many cars and or rapid urbanization with no sensible environmental planning (or did they?)

This could be just part of life & you have to wonder that if we were still back at home in the West, would we be complaining about the same things after a similar period of time? My guess is that we would.

But if you’re in Cnx & not satisfied where to go to?

Just about all of North Thailand’s provincial capitals are in valleys & are prone to serious pollution problems in the coming years.

I spend a lot of time on the road touring around, both here & in Laos.

In the hot season just about all North Thailand’s big towns suck with the heat / smoke / haze / traffic, but some are worse than others. It all only relative & what standard you are used to.

Nan & Phrae are in valleys & suffer just the same as Chiang Mai.

Who’d want to be in the pristine Mae Hong Son valley in 15 years time?

Even Luang Prabang in Laos sucks in the hot season- smoke (& traffic in the city centre at peak hour.)

In the hot season you cant see any mountains in either Mae Hong Son or Luang Prabang, and both places suffer from airport closures due to heavy smoke from forest fires. This problem occurs right throughout the region in the hot season.

Now should you pick any of the smaller rural towns or amphurs & have not lived in that environment before, but dreamed about it, then the chances are that it might be too small & too quiet with not enough facilities to keep you entertained. You might get bored with life there pretty quick & want to move back to the big smoke, where all your mates & social scene was.

It’s a tough call. You have to please yourself & make your own decisions, but think long and hard how the town / city you select will be like in another 10-15 years; especially with the rapid rate of development cars & urbanization & environmental pollution! I reckon that they will all have the same problems in the coming years - there’s no escape (its part of life.) This will be the pace of life in S E Asia this century.

I used to think that Chiang Khong would be my ideal retirement spot overlooking the Mekong, but now that I see the honourable CEO wants a Chinese industrial estate built south of town. I aint so happy about the thought of that in my back yard a few years down the road.

So it’s all a bit of a trade off, quiet clean rural life or semi-modern city life with an acceptable level of pollution.

Which one do you want / need the most?

Last but not least, regarding Chiang Mai vs Chiang Rai.

I don’t rate Chiang Rai as it is too quiet & has little character. Nan & Phrae are superior examples of other North Thai towns with style & character.

I also don’t feel that the CR locals are particularly friendly towards foreigners even, although some may think this is a good thing. I don’t mean to slag off CR people, but they certainly are not as friendly as people from other provinces in North Thailand; & anyone who has toured considerably in the region can appreciate the differences.

Not that this stops me from heading to CR for a night & some entertainment late closing, unlike in Chiang Mai! There’s nothing wrong with the nightlife in CR, if you want to mix in with the locals (and I still think the CR locals are not as friendly as in Chiang Mai!)

Id also say that CR is still pretty much small town, semi city / rural if you can call it that. Neither here nor there, or the best of both worlds, depending on your view point.

What would bothers me about CR is that in the future I reckon it will be a big spread out city with wall to wall shop houses both sides of every 4-lane highway in the area, all the way from Chiang Rai to Mae Sai / Phayao / Chiang Saen / Dok Kham Thai. (But then again which major highway in the north, wont end up like that in another 15 years?)

It’s a tough call. But for me pick the one where you are going to enjoy yourself the most, and whenever you get fed up, take a break & head for hills or wherever. Life here aint that bad at all.

Id rather be miserable in the wilted rose of the North than miserable down under in Oz, any day of the week.

[Ajarn]

Depends on which destinations you're talking about. With the widened road to Fang, the northernmost point in CM province, trips to northwestern CR, eg, Doi Mae Salong and Doi Tung, are only an hour or two farther. Via Hwy 118, places near Wiang Pa Pao or Mae Suay - such as Doi Wawi - are roughly equidistant between CM and CR, in driving time if not km. Chiang Saen or Chiang Khong, more like two and a half hours. Have you driven these distances yourself, Ajarn?

I haven't been on the Fang road in the last two weeks... What is the widened part? I only saw that the short section between Mae Rim and Mae Tang was widened, but I've never really had slow travel times through there. My guess is that it's all connected to the Lignite mines opening in Wieng Heang soon... And the bypass around downtown Chiang Dao- has that opened to traffic yet? Anyway, it's still pretty slow and windy most of the way...

At any rate any CR province attraction is almost as accessible from CM as from CR, just tack on an hour or two to travel time

Remember that driving times are X2, so that extra normal approximately three hours for most to get to Chiang Rai city from Chiang Mai becomes more like six extra driving hours per day to other places not so close to CM, like Doi Tung or most any spot north, or east of cr town. I love driving, and I spent lots of time doing exactly what you've suggested, but not everyone has the same driving stamina...

Apples and oranges. Each place has it's own scene(s). So, which do you prefer? That shouldn't require a value judgement, too, it seems to me. We all have our personal likes and dislikes, but that's all they are, personal opinions.

[banpaeng]

I would really like to say thank you for your replys. All are helpful and now as stated above I need to find outr which suits me.

Again THANKS>