My Non O Almost Finished

[traderjm]

HI everyone,

I have seen what I think are bits of pieces of the answer to this question, but can someone give me the paint by numbers solution to what I need to do in my circumstances

I am not retirement visa material yet. For the last three years I have been going back to Canada each December for Christmas and at that time I grab a new one year Non O never a problem.

This year things have changed as my wife of three years gave birth in March to our son... so as he will only be nine months in December we are not too keen on taking him on the long flight back to Canada this year. I am also not interested in going back alone of course.

My one year expires December 9th. My current 90 day stretch runs out on November 3rd. I generally just make the drive to Cambodia for my 90 day trips...

What is my best course of action to take to get extended or another Non O without going to Canada. But by best course of action I also mean easiest.

I have plenty of money I can show in my Kbank account if need by... and I own a business here as well as having my wife (registered marriage) and of course our new son...

So please guys give me some idiot proof step by step actions I can take to hang around with the minimum amount of hassle...thanks very much in advance for all your wise advice.

[Lite Beer]

You do not say what Nationality your Wife is.

[Lite Beer]

Looking back at your posts I see that she is Thai.

Simple solution.

Apply for a twelve month extension based on being married to a Thai Lady.

You need 400,000 Baht in a Thai bank. This has to be there at least 60 days before applying

OR

40,000 Baht monthly income.

For the money in the bank you need a letter from the bank verifying the balance.

For income you need a letter from your Embassy if income from abroad or tax reciepts and work permit if income is from Thailand.

You will need a few other things if you think that you qualify for the above.

There is also an option for a one off extension of 60 days to visit your Wife and Child. This would give you a bit of time if needed to sort things out.

From the Police Order dealing with extensions of stay.

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

[traderjm]

Thanks, sorry about leaving out the wife being Thai.

So I don't have a work permit anymore as I don't technically work. We own a few businesses but have Thai staff that do the work.. we make far more than 40k monthly, as a household but I technically have no income. Can the income be shown as my wife's? Or you know what I guess the deposit of 400k is more than ok, but it has not been sitting in the bank for the last 60 days, would never dream of leaving money hanging around doing no work hehe... but if I moved it over now, it would be a week shy of two months I imagine unless someone was being in a really pricky mood that would be ok...

Thanks for the info.. much appreciated.

Edited January 3, 2010 by thaiphoon
No need to quote post above - Use Fast Reply

[beechguy]

The money in the account or income needs to be in your name only. As stated above, you could apply for the 60 day extension if more time is needed.

Also, if I understand you visa situation correctly, you could leave and re-enter before the December 9th visa expiration date, and receive another entry for 90 days.

[thaiphoon]

It has to be your earnings or money in bank account in your name.

You can obtain 60 day extension to your current permission to stay on basis of visiting Thai wife which will allow time for funds to season. Visit Immigration with wife. You will to take with you marriage certificate, wife's Id card, tabbien bahn (house book), completed application form TM7, photos of you and wife around the house and map to house. Also need copies of passport pages and TM6 card + passport photo. Fee 1900 baht. Or you could do border run on your current Non-O visa and obtain further 90 day permission to stay. Then apply for 12 month extension of stay based on marriage during the last 30 days of your permission to stay. Is up to you.

Edited October 12, 2009 by thaiphoon

[Lite Beer]

Yep. What Typhoon said.

You can always do another border run to enable the money to be in the bank long enough as said before that.

[traderjm]

Thanks very much guys, it all seems so very simply haha... which is exactly the way I like it.

My course of action please correct me if I misunderstood anything,

I will do one last border run prior to Nov 3rd, giving me 90 more days.

In the final 30 days of that period I will submit all that is needed to get my extension.

That will also allow my newly moved funds to be in there for more than the needed 60 days.

Thanks again,

[thaiphoon]

Correct.

[David006]

Hi mate: I was in Perth earlier this month and met a guy with a dependent child who was getting a IMM O.

He said ( and this was confirmed by the nice gal in the consulate) that he could he could extend that visa for another year at immigration within Thailand. Worth checking out. No funds or anything involved just birth certificate and mum's ID I believe.

good luck..

[lopburi3]

Funds are indeed required - it is the same as an extension of stay for marriage.

A year ago those over age 50 were not required to have funds but that rule has been removed.

[Lite Beer]

ํYes. 400,000 Baht in a Thai bank or 40,000Baht monthly income.

[traderjm]

Ok quick update to my post, I put my 400k in my Thai bank shortly after making the original post in this thread. My 90 days that I received on my last visa run expires on Jan. 23, which means I will be technically a couple of days shy of the 60 days when I apply for my extension of stay. Is this going to be a deal breaker? Hmmm upon double checking my Kbank account online it seems I didn't have the full 400k in there until December 2nd, meaning on Jan. 23rd I will be about a week short... is that a big issue? If so how do I get around it?

We have everything else put together that it appears we will need, pics, maps, etc..etc... just curious how sticky they will be about a few days under the 60? Or is it one of those depends on the mood of the person you talk to?

Also as my final 90 days officially expires, Jan. 23, should I go say a week in advance of that date, or two, or is going that day ok...etc.. etc.. what sort of timing makes the best sense?

Thanks in advance and thanks again for all the previous great advice in this thread.

Edited January 3, 2010 by traderjm

[traderjm]

Hmmmm is it just me or does it appear that a lot less work and stuff is needed if I am applying to stay to support my Thai born son? In looking at the Thai Immigration web site, it shows me this list of docs if I am applying to support a child that is a Thai citizen. So it appears it would make more sense to apply as supporting my son and not worry about the work permit crap the taxes, etc..etc... is that true?

1. Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)
   
2. A copy of passport
   
3. A 4 cm. X 6 cm. Photograph
   
4. 1,900 baht application fee
   
5. Evidence indicating the parental status; birth certificate or a Judical Custody order of the child
   
6. Evidence presenting financial status:
   • Bank pass-book, bank statement certifying amount of money in the applicant's account, a certified documents of money transferring from oversea or evidence of income with related documents
     

[*]A record of interviewing the applicant

[*]The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents if necessary

If I am applying to support a Thai wife....

1. Application form T.M. 7 with one photograph size 4x6 cm. and Visa Fee 1900.-Baht
   
2. Copy of passport ( with certified true copy )
   
3. Required documentation for applying visa in case of
   • For supporting Thai wife
   1. 
      
   2. Marriage Certificate
      
   3. Child's birth certificate (if any)
      
   4. Wife’s house registration
      
   5. Wife’s identity card
      

• Incase of Working
  1. A copy of work permit or receiving work permit form ( WP.2 )
     
  2. The letter from the applicant’s company to certify salary that the applicant receives not less than 40,000 baht per month (identifier position and salary) or husband or wife working has Income including at least 40,000 baht/month
     
  3. Personal Corporation income Tax (PND.1) in latest 3 months and personal income tax for previous year with receipt
     
  4. Recording interviewing the husband and wife for confirming status of husband and wife
     
  5. House’s map
     
  6. Other such as Registration Company
     
  7. Picture of house and family
     

[lopburi3]

You need to apply for a 60 day extension of stay and after 30 days on it you can extend for the one year marriage extension of stay as money will have been in account more than 2 months.

Believe you will find the marriage extension of stay easier and what Immigration will want if you are married.

[thaiphoon]

Your funds have not been properly seasoned and will be a deal breaker. You will need to apply for 60 day extension of stay based on visiting Thai wife. That will allow time for funds to properly season. Visit Immigration with wife. You will to take with you marriage certificate, wife's Id card, tabbien bahn (house book), completed application form TM7, photos of you and wife around the house and map to house. Also need copies of passport pages and TM6 card + passport photo. Fee 1900 baht.

You should apply for your 12 month extension of stay based on marriage to Thai during the last 30 days of your new permission to stay. Would suggest going route rather than obtaining extension of stay based on employment, because if employment ends so does your permission to stay. You will need to bring with you the wife (for interview), her ID card, tabbien bahn (house book), marriage certificate, photos together around the home, map to home, completed application form TM7, copies of passport/TM6 departure card and current passport sized photos. As using the bank balance option you will need a letter from bank confirming the account balance and copies of bank book. Most immigration offices are now asking also for Kor Sor 2 (copy of marriage register) so best to check. Fee 1,900 baht.

You will get a 30 day under consideration stamp. Immigration will give you a date to go back and get the remainder of your extension. If you plan to travel abroad during the period of the extension you will need to obtain a re-entry permit from immigration to keep your permission to stay alive. Fee 1,000 baht single entry; 3,800 baht multi entry.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/tm7.doc

(print the two-sided form on a single sheet of A4 paper)

[traderjm]

Your funds have not been properly seasoned and will be a deal breaker. You will need to apply for 60 day extension of stay based on visiting Thai wife. That will allow time for funds to properly season. Visit Immigration with wife. You will to take with you marriage certificate, wife's Id card, tabbien bahn (house book), completed application form TM7, photos of you and wife around the house and map to house. Also need copies of passport pages and TM6 card + passport photo. Fee 1900 baht.

I am not doubting you as you have obviously been at this a lot longer than I have. BUT I have to tell you we spoke with the immigration office today and they said it would easier and less hassle for me to apply for the extension of stay based on being here to support my Thai born son than it would my wife.

She said to bring,

Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

A copy of passport

A 4 cm. X 6 cm. Photograph

1,900 baht application fee

Evidence indicating the parental status; birth certificate

Evidence presenting financial status

My wife asked her numerous times about my funds only having been in the bank for about 45 days as of today's date and the woman answered each time, don't worry about it. It's not a big deal. Just bring the papers above. She asked about the house book, her ID card all that they said, no need he is applying for his extension to support his son, don't need that stuff... so maybe this woman is nuts, I don't know but we will try it her way and see how it goes. I will of course post and let you know.

Would suggest going route rather than obtaining extension of stay based on employment, because if employment ends so does your permission to stay.

Yeah sorry for the confusion the two options I was considering were child support and wife support, nothing related to employment.

We gathered up everything they wanted today and we will pop down there I think Thursday and see how it goes. Fingers crossed.

[Mario2008]

Normally immigratration will not extend based on having a child if you are married to a Thai.

Would be interesting to know which office you asked.

[traderjm]

Normally immigratration will not extend based on having a child if you are married to a Thai.

Would be interesting to know which office you asked.

Yeah I hear ya, someone else told me what you are saying as well. My wife says she just called Immigration Bureau Head office 0-2287-3101-10 and the woman that answered the phone was very clear with her that HER husband (so she knew I was married to a Thai) wanted to extend based on supporting my Thai born son.

If you look on their website it is clearly a choice

"To support children who are Thai Citizens (as a non thai mother or father)" I guess this might very well be a normal case of TIT, but until they tell me otherwise I will go forward with what we were told on the phone, the paperwork needed is a lot less and my wife has the woman's contact info somewhere so we will attempt keep in touch with her as she seemed very liberal in her application of the rules..

Will keep you posted, literally...

[thaiphoon]

I wish you the best of luck, as the immigration officer appears to be working outside the rule book. The financial requirements for extension of stay based on Thai child are the same as extension of stay based on marriage. Financial requirements are one thing that immigration seem to strongly enforce:

Police Order 777/2551:

2.18 In the case of a family member of a Thai(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse):

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of family relationship

(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de jure (legitimate) and de facto;

(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or

(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

Would be interested to know which immigration office this is. Please keep us posted.

[MJP]

Is there no way you can go to another Thai Consulate, I think it's Kuala Lumpur and get a new Non-'O'?

[thaiphoon]

For sure, but he then has to do 90 day border runs. Obtaining 12 month extension of stay will avoid that (but will have to do 90 day reporting instead).

[MJP]

For sure, but he then has to do 90 day border runs. Obtaining 12 month extension of stay will avoid that (but will have to do 90 day reporting instead).

Is KL the only place round here to get a new Non-'O'? I'm a Brit, coming to the end of the current 1 year Non-'O', may need another. Don't mind the border runs every 3 months, it's not that far to Mukdahan.

Thanks

[thaiphoon]

Are you married to Thai/have Thai child/working/over 50? Best to raise in new thread detailing your position rather than 'hi-jacking' this one which is about extension of stay.

[MJP]

Are you married to Thai/have Thai child/working/over 50? Best to raise in new thread detailing your position rather than 'hi-jacking' this one which is about extension of stay.

Yes, I'll start a new one. Cheers.

[traderjm]

I wish you the best of luck, as the immigration officer appears to be working outside the rule book. The financial requirements for extension of stay based on Thai child are the same as extension of stay based on marriage. Financial requirements are one thing that immigration seem to strongly enforce:

Ok more info for you, the person she spoke to is working at the Government Center, Chaengwattana Road Soi 7 office.

In order to clarify a couple of things since May of 2009, to the present day my Kbank account has only had the bank balance slip below 400k for a few days, so the person my wife spoke to said it's not a big deal as it shows that over the course of a year I have been making regular deposits from overseas and the point of the 400k rule for 60 days is to stop people from putting money in the day before they apply and then removing it the day after, ANYBODY with a bank book deposit history like mine would not be given any grief. Again this is simply what the woman on the phone has said TWICE now, so that is all I have to go on.

We asked AGAIN today quite pointedly, can I apply for my extension based on the need to be here supporting my son, even though I am clearly married to his mother, a Thai national and we still live together. She said again yes no problem being in the few docs we asked for.

So we are actually going down there Friday morning, need to pick up a paper on Thursday from Kbank confirming all my deposits come from overseas.. yes I will keep you updated as to how things go. We are also taking with us all the other docs requested to apply on the basis of supporting my wife, just in case we hit a brick wall in person and saving ourselves another trip to drop them off.

Edited January 6, 2010 by traderjm

[aaaaaa]

...

the point of the 400k rule for 60 days is to stop people from putting

money in the day before they apply and then removing it the day after

...

well, that is of course the most obvious explanation (or rather excuse). although I have a very strong suspicion that it also has a lot to do with Thai banks largely benefiting from such convenient arrangement (with immigration).

because, I mean, just think about it : merely KEEPING 400K for min 60 days on account in Thai bank - whom does that benefit, the owner of the account (who can't earn any percentage anyway) or the bank (which certainly DOES use such a yummy chunk of funds to loan and re-loan and re-loan several times over ) ?! especially during the ongoing global economic crisis.

recently I was there at Chaengwattana office in Bkk and had a discussion with one lady-officer on this matter. I told here clearly pretty much the same thing as traderjm did in this thread and which anyone with 1 cell of brain in head would easily figure out : it is RISKY to keep such a huge amount of money in bank for such a long period of time, ESPECIALLY nowadays. and that I would rather prefer to invest such money into something more solid - be it gold, or some other things, or at least into stock of goods (in case if one dose business).

and this lady-officer surely got my point and instantly agreed with me - also she has translated to other her colleagues present and they agreed too. so, it is of course not the matter of an individual officers being fussy (although often officers can be and are being fussy) - but more like of those who MAKE those rules and regulations.

and those people, I have no any slightest doubts, ARE connected and have mutual arrangements with those Thai banks.

after all, it is banksters who rule the whole world nowadays.

therefore, I don't accept such an argument of "to stop people from putting money in the day before" given by immigration reps as reasonable or valid one. it is in fact a silly reason ! because even if it is so - then anyway, WHAT actual difference does it make (for immigration) - would this person take the whole amount after 1 day or after 60 days?!

NON! it does make difference for the owner of account (he has to keep that 400K tight up in that bank - rather than ACTUALLY use them - FOR HIS FAMILY, which is what after all Immigration supposedly oh so cares about, right? not to mention - RISK of sudden loss of value of these moneys - if 'sh1t hits the fan') and for BANK (which handsomely makes interests during 60 days - especially multiply 400K by the number of ALL such foreign hubbies !)

the whole point of this "evidence of financial support" rule - is (or supposed to be) that foreign husband is ABLE to support his Thai wife, isn't it ? and keeping 400K on one's account in THAI bank for 60 days - has NOTHING to do with that ability, and neither proves that he actually DOES have those money at all. because after all - he can borrow such amount somewhere, place into his account for 60 days to get bank statement - and return it back as soon as get that bank statement, without actually OWNING those money. the ONLY thing such a process proves or achieves - is that BANKS directly benefit from it (and who knows - may be Immigrations in some way benefits indirectly).

therefore after I have mentioned it briefly to that lady-officer - she didn't even argue or object. she just also said to me, as it was said to traderjm : "No problem, don't worry about it". which merely confirms my suspicion that Immigration officers themselves know very well, that this rule of "evidence of financial support" is not a serious thing to ACTUALLY make sure that foreign husband DOES have sufficient funds to support his wife, because it is practically too absurd, too contradicting the VERY PURPOSE of this rule (to support wife financially) and TOO EASY to fulfill the condition of 400K on account for 60 days without actually having such amount in reality.

so, this whole rule and the standard cliche-explanation provided ("to stop people from putting money in the day before") - is just a clever BUSINESS. and foreigner has to figure it out himself - sort of "read between the lines" and either submit to it, or "up to you" (= "go back to your country").

but then, bright minds in immigration must ponder a question : if it is "up to you" (= "go back to your country") - then WHO and HOW will take care of the wife of that foreigner? and doesn't such outcome contradicts the very idea of this whole rule - "making sure that foreigner can support his Thai wife" ?! somehow I think that those who actually make all such rules do not bother about the whole stupidity of it - otherwise they would have made more HUMANE rules.

since they don't - to me it is clear that they don't actually care at all about welfare of Thai women married to foreign husbands - but more about the undercurrent purposes (most obvious one - making money). that's all about it.

honestly speaking, I am very concerned about this whole issue and am considering what should I do in the future. because during the last extension I was told clearly - next time you MUST bring the bank statement, because the paper of income from your embassy would not be accepted as a valid document anymore (as I did provide such already 3 years). the officer who told me so (another one, who handled my visa extension case) was pretty fussy, actually even impolite, and even made my wife cry (while he sent me back and forth TRICE to make some photocopies - couldn't tell once), then told her to go and wait outside and yet in the end called her again and lectured her more about him getting upset (even though she kept QUITE during his earlier anger outbursts).

I don't see such attitude as really CARING about whether Thai woman married to foreigner has or has not sufficient financial support - but rather as some sort of consistent effort to achieve exactly OPPOSITE : making sure that it is increasingly hard for foreign husband to continue live with his Thai wife AND thus to support her ! because, I mean - say, if I am denied visa extension and have no choice but leave the country - then WHO will "financially support" my wife and kids - would Immigration do that, or perhaps those Thai banks? or may be she should wait till 50 y.o. and then get pitiful ridiculous 500 Baht per month which present government oh so generously gives to elder people (as my mother in law) ?! oh, yeah - THAT certainly would be a much better "financial support" than what I AM ACTUALLY able to provide her NOW, with or without any "evidences" !

I mean - the very fact that Thai wife still LIVES with her foreign husband and neither of them leaves another - is ALREADY in itself sufficient fact that he CAN "financially support" her. otherwise - WHY on earth she would continue living with him (yeah, well, "love" and other sentiments apart) !

I think there is a real need for some efforts to influence a change in such as STUPID rules which are nothing else then just a harassment, not a CARE but an endeavors to drive out foreign husbands, or discourage them to continue live in Thailand (I heard it more than once that immigration rather prefers that foreigner takes his Thai wife to live in his country)

that's the reality we have to face - without any BS about "to stop people from putting money in the day before" or any such funny reasons. and sooner or later, as I can see and as I read many opinions even here on TV - each foreigner has to face this reality. I am already facing it now and seriously thinking - what and how to do, whether to continue all the efforts to "follow the rules" and live here and accordingly build the rest of my life, or to make a different decision and instead move out - if eventually I will have no choice but do so anyway. the only difference - time, energy, money and nerves spent (or perhaps more precisely - WASTED) on trying hard to follow these rules, comply with all the ever changes whimsical STUPID innovations introduced by genius Thai Immigration without much warning, and in the end, live the rest of life as a "tourist" - well, not exactly, but neither as a real resident who doesn't have to worry about VISA !

sorry for the long post. but perhaps it may help some who by now haven't figured it out himself - all the underlying facts of immigration policy in this country and of the reality it creates.

[traderjm]

dam_n! I should know better my massive reply was lost when I timed out or some such thing on the board, here is the coles notes version.

After much discussing back and forth today and asking to speak to a manager two levels up from the person interviewing us we have been told we can in fact apply for my extension based on my support of my Thai citizen son.

The little hitch they threw at us was that they want to see a certified orginal copy of my divorce decree from Canada. Clearly they are asking for this to punish us for not goose stepping to their whims and demanding they allow us to follow the rules THEY list on their website and from their call centre.

They also said they are within their rights to ask for a DNA test hahahahaha, if you could see how white and how much like me my son looks you would laugh at that one, but again I understand this is a slap on the wrist for us. They did not ask for ANYTHING else other than the divorce decree.

No marriage license, no pics of the family, no house book, no ID card from my wife, nothing but the divorce decree.

We then said we have a copy of our marriage registration here, this should be good enough as you can NOT get this without having the divorce decree as we did three years ago when the marriage was registered. The said no they want the divorce decree hehe, we were bad bad kids.

So they gave us a list in Thai of a whole bunch of documents which they said they can ask to provide any/all of them. The divorce decree was on the list and the only one highlighted.

I said lets go and had to pretty much pull my wife off this woman haha.. she really really hates Thai corruption with a passion and never lets stuff like this rest.

As we were getting ready to leave my wife turned back to the worker and her supervisor and said ok so this is ALL you want? They both nodded, my wife said, great, please sign your name on this paper confirming that nothing else on the list will be required, oh my if looks could kill my wife would be dead. But the manager after a small pow wow agreed and signed the doc.

My wife said on the way home she just knew there were going to screw with us, each time we got back asking for "just one more thing" so she felt she needed to ask for the sig. I explained to her that it will be quite easy for them to call a "new" manager next time that will claim this manager had no right to sign anything and they will then screw with us, she was not amused but agreed its possible.

So it would appear that although it is written that we can do what we are attempting to do they clearly do NOT like to do so, why I honestly can not tell you there is NO logic behind. yes I realize this is Thailand logic is very seldom applied before action is taken.

So we are digging up the divorce decree and will return next week to hand it in and see what comes of that. Again will post updates as we go along.

Edited January 8, 2010 by traderjm

[moe666]

Keep us informed.

[traderjm]

Keep us informed.

DONE, I have my 365 day extension of stay. I won't go over all the ins and outs but if you read the whole thread you will see what I did and did NOT have to supply.

Please note...

No marriage license, no pics of the family, no house book, no ID card from my wife, nothing but the divorce decree.

I could not get a copy of my divorce decree here quickly enough from Canada as it has to be ordered then delivered to an Ontario address and getting here by the 23rd would have been impossible. But our lawyer suggested we should just visit the office where we registered our marriage and sure enough they had a copy made for us of the document in question.

Also worth noting my money was NOT seasoned as per the rules, the day we finalized the extension was the 19th of Jan and the money (400k) was deposited on Dec 1st. But as they looked over the six months of bank statements I supplied they said they could see I easily had an AVERAGE monthly balance well above the 400k so there was no problem there.

We showed up at the Immigration office the morning of the 19th about 9 AM. We were the ONLY people in queue on the window they sent us to (L6-5) we were called in about 5 minutes, they asked us to go make a couple of photo copies of a few pages from my Passport downstairs. Did that, gave the application and the 1900 baht fee to the cashier. Sat back in the queue, five minutes later they took us to the desks behind the interview desk, the girl filled out the extension info signed it and told me I had to report my address to them every 90 days.

That's it done....

Less painful that I thought and it does seem you can make things less trouble by just making sure everything is 100% clear and show up with exactly what is stated on the website.

So see ya next year

Edited January 21, 2010 by traderjm