Another Question About Relationships... And Culture Differences.

[erezsp]

Hi,

I'm not sure I'm happy with the title "Ladies in Thailand"(always gets a certain connotation)...but I guess it's the suitable place to try and put my dilemma on the table.

I've been in a relationship with a Thai girl for the last 2 years.May I say to the record that she's totally "normative" ,holding a position with a local company,using her own money and from a very ordinary background.We don't share a place together,but spent most of our free time with each other.

Our relationship has always been a very good one,and we do enjoy the time we spend together.The thing is that we can't get over one crucial problem ,and that is COMMUNICATION. No,it's not about language- I'm quite fluent with Thai,and it has never been an obstacle.I'm talking about communication in it's deeper level- being really able to listen and share things with the person you live with.

I would say it like that- on one level,everything is about perfect.She is the most caring and attentive person,and we can really have great time .But then,on another level,once I have something on my mind that I need to share someone with- it can be either something unpleasant ,thoughts,worries, or just feelings ...I just find there is "no one" there.She seems to be very uninterested with what I have to say,even somehow bored,or sometimes just changes the subject(in a very direct manner).

I tried many times,and it seems to repeat itself time and time again.

For me, it's becoming more and more crucial.

Is it really something cultural?anyone with similar different experience?.........

[cdnvic]

You need a female friend from your own background to talk with. Just mates, nothing more.

[bifftastic]

Is it really something cultural?anyone with similar different experience?.........

Hi,

I'm not sure it's cultural, some people just don't like to talk about deeper stuff.

For example, my ex g/f (English like me) and i lived together for 6 years and never really spoke about 'deep stuff', we now agree that maybe we should have, but it's too late now.

On the other hand my current g/f (Thai) who I don't live with, is, and was right from the start, willing to get into all the emotional stuff with me. We maybe don't have the shared vocabulary that me and the ex had but we have discussed things on a deeper level . If she doesn't have the words, I just get a kiss (and vice versa).

(unless, of course, the TV is on! 'Honey, now I look movie!')

I think the advice you got before to find someone else to offload on is very valid. In my opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with your relationship because she is unwilling to talk about stuff.

[Ave]

It has happened to me too, soo many times, always with a Thai guy and not with the same one though some of my farang friends with Thai partners regretfully have to admit the same. I'm trying hard not to make it a cultural thing because I feel in harmony here. Maybe it is something that comes from me that I need to sort out, perhaps I should find the right moment to talk or use a more Thai approach to go through the deep stuff. On the other hand if I use Thai language to express myself he seems more interested. Perhaps it's a language thing..?

[erezsp]

It has happened to me too, soo many times, always with a Thai guy and not with the same one though some of my farang friends with Thai partners regretfully have to admit the same. I'm trying hard not to make it a cultural thing because I feel in harmony here. Maybe it is something that comes from me that I need to sort out, perhaps I should find the right moment to talk or use a more Thai approach to go through the deep stuff. On the other hand if I use Thai language to express myself he seems more interested. Perhaps it's a language thing..?

I feel it's not a matter of language.I speak to my gf in Thai (we communicate only in Thai language) ,and never had problems when it was just the the usual stuff....Only when I get to something really deeper ,I get this almost bored look or just a change of subject.

And yes,myself as well live here in a beautiful harmony with the culture...so I really hope to be able to sort things and not just give up.

Anyone can suggest a suitable approach for the "western" mind?Can relationship survive and function well with this kind of somewhat limited communication?....

[bifftastic]

I feel it's not a matter of language.I speak to my gf in Thai (we communicate only in Thai language) ,and never had problems when it was just the the usual stuff....Only when I get to something really deeper ,I get this almost bored look or just a change of subject.

And yes,myself as well live here in a beautiful harmony with the culture...so I really hope to be able to sort things and not just give up.

Anyone can suggest a suitable approach for the "western" mind?Can relationship survive and function well with this kind of somewhat limited communication?....

ok i've just spoken to the ex (English) and she was talking about her current b/f saying how he's disappointed because she won't engage him on this deeper level, to talk about her emotions and how she feels and she never wants to talk about that kind of stuff (she never did with me either!) and it is starting to really piss her off! She wants him to accept her as she is and if he can't then it's going to be a problem.

She said she can try and change but it would be a pretence and she needs to be the person she really is and he needs to accept that. She's not a cold or unloving person she just expresses it differently.

Some people just don't want to do it, or don't know how to. So when you ask if a relationship can survive and function with what you call a somewhat limited communication, I guess you'll have to answer that yourself. Do you think that it is vital? After all you both need to be happy. Again I really don't think it's cultural to any great degree, just personal.

What I used to do, because I'm very willing to discuss most things at any level, was talk about that kind of stuff with other people.

I hope you can either work it out or stop worrying about it so much. But I hope you end up happy.

[chiangmaibruce]

OK well i guess everyone has their take on this issue, because I think it is mainly cultural. Most sources about Thai/farang differences make the point that (as a general rule) Thais don't engage in anything like the level of analysis of self and others that we do. Don't take my word for it - get hold of some of these books. A basic starter that is often mentioned in this forum is 'Thailand Fever' by Paiboon Publishing.

From a farang perspective, Thais are strong in some areas and weak in others. If your need for deep discussions is strong/ongoing and outweighs other 'issues/things' then maybe you are looking in the wrong place. This is not to say that your problem would be solved with a farang partner ... they may not be interested in such discussions (as already mentioned) or their version of talking about deeper issues could be limited to soliloquys about 'what I want you to do for me'. Good luck in the quest.

[sbk]

Yup, after 20 years of marriage, and lots of work on communicating, I have to say, discussing the deeper issues is still a painful process for my husband. He is willing to listen to my issues, but rarely has any comment. I prod a bit, but really, what makes him happy is for me to be happy and leave him to his fishing.

I believe its cultural as well, they are taught from a very early age that strong emotions are not healthy and so, by having to confront those strong emotions will have to feel them as well. I suspect that very few Thais born and raised in Thailand can get past this.

With one exception being my brother-in-law. That guy has a temper like a foreigner, says what he thinks and to hel_l with you if you don't like it

[sbk]

Oh, and just as an aside to the OP, this forum is FOR ladies in Thailand, not about ladies in Thailand, however men are free to post in here, and ask women's advice, as long as they remain civil, polite and well mannered

[erezsp]

Oh, and just as an aside to the OP, this forum is FOR ladies in Thailand, not about ladies in Thailand, however men are free to post in here, and ask women's advice, as long as they remain civil, polite and well mannered

Yes....I've figured out this misinterpretation of mine by now :-)

And thanks for providing me the opportunity to post here.I always appreciate a woman's advice.

[bina]

what makes him happy is for me to be happy and leave him to his fishing.

that is anon to a tee , except that he is also tempermental and says what he thinks and if u dont like it then to hel_l with it...

but he wont DISCUSS it. that is the difference. he thinks westerners like to DISCUSS too much.

its along the lines of 'think too mut'... that men on the board seem to complain about in reference to their thai wives/gf.

thais seemt to prefer to discuss things with their same age same sex mates, not their partners... if they discuss at all..

bina

israel

[Sheryl]

I would also say cultural. Even between spouses seems to be the norm not to verbally communicate deep feelings. (Which does not necessarily mean they aren't picked up on or empathized with)

Even outside romantic context, say between friends, tendency is not to do this.

I have also found in the past that when I start to unburden myself on anything deep, even the closest of Thai friends will immediately change the subject.

Part of this I think is not being inclined to verbalize deep feelings; another part (in the case of negative/painful feelings) is the idea that they are actually helping you by distracting you from a subject that is obviously painful for you. That you might need to express and talk about it is hard for many Thais to understand as I think that type of emotional catharsis is just not their usual coping mechanism.

Of course these are generalizations and individual Thais vary greatly as do people of any culture.

Even without cultural differences, nobody ever finds a single person who meets all their needs and I think one of the keys to successful relationships is accepting that and having additional people in your life (friends etc) who can fill in those gaps.

[Ave]

I am more and more convinced that once you have mastered the language or at least understand its subtleties and therefore understand the culture (I believe there is a very strict link between the two) certain cultural differences start fading away or become less of an issue. It's definitely a lot easier to make closer bonds now that I can speak a little more Thai than before.

[IanForbes]

The topic of discussion is one reason why people hire psychologists. Psychologists will sit and listen to the patient and ask pertinent questions to make the patient better understand themselves. I know the answers given here are far more understanding than if the same question was asked on the general forum. Over years of self analysis I've come to understand why I do the things I do and most have to do with parenting when I was at an early age.

In answer to the OP's question I think it's a bit of both cultural and personal experience. I know a few Thai ladies that I have very frank discussions with. For some reason they feel free to discuss what would normally be "female issues" with me. Maybe it's because I ask interesting questions and never pass judgement, I dunnoh. And, I treat them with respect. But, with other Thai woman, and one in particular, I can never get a straight answer to the most simple of questions. She just continues to say... "You don't understand", when I DO understand... very clearly. But, like I've always said, those are just specific situations, and you can't base any all encompassing topic on specific situations. But, I believe the OP is talking about culture generalities.

Edited October 13, 2009 by IanForbes

[eek]

Would be really nice to have some feedback on this from Thai members themselves.

[sbk]

I am more and more convinced that once you have mastered the language or at least understand its subtleties and therefore understand the culture (I believe there is a very strict link between the two) certain cultural differences start fading away or become less of an issue. It's definitely a lot easier to make closer bonds now that I can speak a little more Thai than before.

My husband speaks fluent english. My Thai is quite good. We've been married 20 years and he still does it, not to the extent of someone who has not been married to a foreigner for so long, but still. He will do the deep meaningful discussion when absolutely necessary but again, its a painful process for him. He is much happier with the ostrich method but realizes that there are times when the ostrich method does not make the wife happy.

[Sheryl]

My husband speaks fluent english. My Thai is quite good. We've been married 20 years and he still does it, not to the extent of someone who has not been married to a foreigner for so long, but still. He will do the deep meaningful discussion when absolutely necessary but again, its a painful process for him. He is much happier with the ostrich method but realizes that there are times when the ostrich method does not make the wife happy.

Perhaps getting a bit off subject since the OP is male and asking about Thai women...BUT

Isn't what you describe a typical MALE problem everywhere? Certainly it's the stereotype in the West and while I know some exceptions I find it to be true of most men. It may not be so much that they dislike verbalizing inner feelings as that it is very difficult for them to do...and they also seem to have trouble handling it on the receiving end when listening to a woman do so.

Some years back I recall reading that research had established a difference between male and female brains with respect to communication between the right and left hemispheres. Women can readily use both sides at more or less the same time and the left brain is well aware of what the right brain feels. Whereas men do not have these connections or have much fewer of them.

Which means that when men drive women nuts by saying they don't know how they feel, or why they feel as they do, they may be telling the literal truth.

What I have wondered about ever since reading this is whether the minority of men who are highly intuitive and readily able to express and analyze emotional matters are wired a bot differently than the average man. ...

[F1fanatic]

Sheryl makes a good point - the stereotypical male (in the West) is completely unable to discuss emotional issues, and it sounds as if its no different with men in Thailand! The answer for women has always been (for women) to find good friends with whom they can discuss anything and everything close to their heart. That's why the vast majority of women don't need psychologists - their friends perform that service!

Perhaps that's the answer for the OP - find a good friend with whom you can discuss deeper issues.

I too (like a previous poster) find Thai women more than happy to have 'frank' discussions with me - but I eventually learned that in most cases they were just saying what they (genuinely) thought was best for them to believe at the moment. The next time I spoke to them (when their circumstances had changed) they were just as genuinely emotional, but in the opposite direction!

Personally, I've decided its a waste of MY emotional energy and whilst I'm happy to provide a sympathetic ear, I will only get involved on non-emotional subjects!

Edited October 14, 2009 by F1fanatic

[erezsp]

Well,I'm trying to pull again to the cultural issue....though I can see what female members here are talking about when regarding to men.But then,some men can be still very sensitive and profound and search for this emotional depth,even when discussing issue between themselves.

What I find to be disturbing for me,and not only with regarding to my partner,is the "clear-cut" approach taken by many .Once you start talking about something that is meaningful ( it doesn't necessarily has to be your own emotional stuff,but something that is "deep") - you will get a bored face ,and mostly people will say something like -it's too serious ,why need to be serious(Kriiat-ไม่ต้องเครียด)?

It's one thing when you get it from just "someone" ,but when you get it from the closest person....makes you wonder why waste time together.

Isn't relationship should be about communication?

BTW- I find many times here that people (and couples)just prefer to sit together in silence.I have seen that even in restaurants ,around the dining table.Is it that we as westerns are more verbal?....

[sbk]

Thai people often don't converse during dinner. I remember the first time I ate at my inlaws, the dead silence was quite disconcerting.

No, I don't get the bored face when talking about big issues, my husband will talk about politics, religion etc . I don't know that that is necessarily Thai culture but it could very well be part of the belief of many Thai people that girls who think too deeply are unattractive and so its often discouraged among girls.

[bina]

as u all know, i am quite talkative; but then again, i have time talk a lot at work, so at home, i enjoy the quiet... and if i want long drawn out discussions, i can talk on the phone to girl friends;

and as i get older , i seem to feel less needful of long lenghthy discussions. maybe cause i know my own mind better and i really dont care what others think so i just wont ask them, and i hate sports and politics wwich rules out lots of discussions here, and women's stuff bores me too (babies, diets, fashion)... but i definately can discuss concrete things that do interest me, with those that are interested. i need anon for physical/intimate warmth/ contact and in the rare times that its needed, conversations that are m ore complex then daily situations. he's quiet by nature . ill probably end up as a mee chi someday, living in a cave in a forest and raising goats ) ...

i am beginning to think that 'u think to much' is true. its much less tiring to go thru the day without trying to second guess people, discuss, argue, debate, analyze and in the end, come up with the same conclusions anyway type conversations.

oops gotta run.

bina

israel

[eek]

I do often find that if i get too deep about something ( i dont mean personal emotions, i mean talking about an issue im passionate about, or if i see something on the news that i found shocking), my bf will say that i shouldnt think too much. Or that i will get old/get wrinkles if i think too deeply (..and that comment usually results in a bit of a sour stare from me). I also dont mean going on about something monotonously. Often its a passionate reaction to something ive just seen or read. He just says i should be calm. My bf is intelligent and most definitely can talk about deep issues, he has done, but its rare...well, rare past a few fleeting comments. He always says its good not too think too much. Sometimes is frustrating, other times i can see his point. A middle ground would be nice though. Not sure how much of this is a culture thing, or just a male/his thing, but with western men i can usually delve deeper into certain topics (oh, and my bf's understanding of English is excellent, so thats not the barrier).

Sorry OP, i know this is about how a Thai women reacts to deeper communication, rather than a male, but you touched on something that i have noticed myself.

[F1fanatic]

Agreed with most of the comments until – posters started defending 'you think too much'! It must be one of the worst (and most frightening) common Thai comments!

We've been blessed with a brain that we choose to use. We enjoy discussing issues to make us think about our views on subjects. Trying to dismiss conversation on the grounds that anyone 'thinks too much' is downright worrying!

[bifftastic]

Agreed with most of the comments until – posters started defending 'you think too much'! It must be one of the worst (and most frightening) common Thai comments!

We've been blessed with a brain that we choose to use. We enjoy discussing issues to make us think about our views on subjects. Trying to dismiss conversation on the grounds that anyone 'thinks too much' is downright worrying!

I agree, thinking is never bad. Drives us forward as a species.

I've always thought/understood it to mean don't worry too much or been told don't think too much about something in particular rather than just generally don't think at all! But yes, it is a worrying trait, something I will now think about! (not too much)

[sbk]

Well, then I am blessed. I don't think in twenty years I have ever heard that ridiculous phrase "think too much" pass my husband's lips. He does, however, say to me, "there is no point in getting upset over something you cannot change", and he does have a point to an extent. His point being that its alright to discuss, and even to get passionate, but if you let it rule your life then you are only going to be stressed out by something over which you have no control.

[Sheryl]

What I find to be disturbing for me,and not only with regarding to my partner,is the "clear-cut" approach taken by many .Once you start talking about something that is meaningful ( it doesn't necessarily has to be your own emotional stuff,but something that is "deep") - you will get a bored face ,and mostly people will say something like -it's too serious ,why need to be serious(Kriiat-ไม่ต้องเครียด)?

It's one thing when you get it from just "someone" ,but when you get it from the closest person....makes you wonder why waste time together.

Isn't relationship should be about communication?

Cultural to a point but within any culture, individual people vary. There are intellectuals in Thailand, altho I would agree that as a culture it does not value intellectualism as much as many other cultures do. Likewise Thais read less than almost any culture I can think of, but again, there are exceptions.

Clearly though the particular woman you are with is not one of these exceptions. I think what you need to do is decide if, for you, this is a "deal breaker" or if you can be happy without that particular aspect in your relationship.

If you are wondering if this is a universal trait in Thailand and therefore one that any future Thai gf would also share...no. It is common, but far from universal, there are Thai women out there who enjoy deep intellectual pursuits and discussions and don't hesitate to "think too much" . May have to look a little harder/longer for them, but they do exist.

[carlosacao]

I do often find that if i get too deep about something ( i dont mean personal emotions, i mean talking about an issue im passionate about, or if i see something on the news that i found shocking), my bf will say that i shouldnt think too much. Or that i will get old/get wrinkles if i think too deeply (..and that comment usually results in a bit of a sour stare from me). I also dont mean going on about something monotonously. Often its a passionate reaction to something ive just seen or read. He just says i should be calm. My bf is intelligent and most definitely can talk about deep issues, he has done, but its rare...well, rare past a few fleeting comments. He always says its good not too think too much. Sometimes is frustrating, other times i can see his point. A middle ground would be nice though. Not sure how much of this is a culture thing, or just a male/his thing, but with western men i can usually delve deeper into certain topics (oh, and my bf's understanding of English is excellent, so thats not the barrier).

Sorry OP, i know this is about how a Thai women reacts to deeper communication, rather than a male, but you touched on something that i have noticed myself.

I think you are describing a very typical Thai cultural trait (for both males and females). I would not consider it good or bad, just the way most Thais seem to be. I would say that is part of the "mai pen rai" attitude that most people have here and like everything it has a positive and a negative side, you can "mai pen rai" too much and then things never get taken care off and it leads to inaction, or you can think too much and then get easily obsessed and get the wrinkles as they like to say. They certainly seem to have a lot less stress than us, maybe it's the best way, don't know, but I do also feel strongly about many issues or things that I've read or seen and I also felt frustrated about their lack of interest or passion about the issue and frankly, I've never met a Thai (don't mean there are not, just that I never met them myself) that I can talk to about many deep topics that are of high interest to me while at the same time it's a lot easier for me to find westerners that I can discuss those topics with. Lets also not forget that as westerners we come from the cultural mindset of analytical and critical thinking set by the ancient greeks and that's a cultural trait that is definitively foreign to asian culture. I'd be very interested in hearing other TV opinions about this issue and sorry if is off topic, but I think Ekk brought up a very interesting topic.

[GrahamF]

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject, but I am going to keep them to myself.

[drum]

nothing to do with culture,Thai women don't want to know about any problems that do not concern them or family direct,they simple dont want to listen to you moaning on,

but they will expect you to listen to there problems

[mssabai]

Something you also have to reremember is just because Thais belive that you shouldn't think deeply, it doesn't stop them doing it themselves. My bf is a big brooder, much more than me. I take great pleasure in saying to him "mai kit maak". It's a bit like when children cry here. I wouldn't say that young children cry andy more or less than their western counterparts, but what is different is that the reaction to them is usually "don't cry, don't cry"...whereas in the west we usually just make soothing noises unless they have been crying for 6 hours and then itdefinitely gets to the "please stop crying" stage! But itis just words...ultimately telling a child not to cry is not going to stop them...