Buy A Condo Without Transfering Funds To Thailand

[briley]

OK I've tried a search but I can't find the answer.

Can you buy a Condo without transferring the funds into Thailand?

I'm thinking of buying from a foreigner and paying them directly in Euro, Pound or Dollar. Not using a company, just a private deal person to person.

As a supplementary question, how could you set it up so that the transfer of funds is only made subject to the transfer of the property - without going through the expense and hassle of overseas lawyers and the like?

I am a great believer in "don't trust anyone when buying property". So I would not want to transfer the money to the seller before land registry has registered it in my name, nor would I expect the seller to register it in my name before they are guaranteed the funds.

[MJo]

Well it's pretty clear, to register the condo in your name the money needs to come from outside and you need to have the relevant paperwork for it (providing you are not Thai citizen).

[InterestedObserver]

As a general rule the Land Department will not register a condo in a foreign name without proof the funds were remitted from overseas, or tax receipts if the foreigner is employed within Thailand. At the land office you hand over a bank draft when you get your hands on the Chanote (Title) in your name.

[chiang mai]

The second problem, even if you were to overcome the first one, is that the sale proceeds (when you finally sell the condo) cannot legally be exported from Thailand unless you can prove they came in in the first place.

[briley]

That is what I thought - but I keep hearing about people buying a Condo and paying in Euro. But then one always hears stories and I've never met one of these people.

I suspect that it is possible to pay a bit in Thailand - and show the bank paper and the balance outside of Thailand but as Chiang Mai says how do you then get the funds out of Thailand when you sell?

Thanks for the replies.

[trajan]

I have heard of two ways:

(a) foreigner having a permanent residence book (no need to show the FX form for the inward remittance of foreign funds)...

(b ) a condo being held in the name of a foreign company (for example, a Cayman Islands company) and the foreign buyer purchasing the shares of the company from the foreign buyer (in Euro, Pounds or Dollars)....(with the condo title deed remaining unchanged, but physically being surrendered to the buyer)...

Edited October 19, 2009 by trajan

[hhgz]

"but I keep hearing about people buying a Condo and paying in Euro."

Where did you hear this, and from whom?

[chiang mai]

Other than by purchasing shares in an offshore company, I don't think it's possible. There as some outfits in my neck of the woods that claim to be able to sell you real estate using offshore companies hence the buyer can then pay in foreign currency offshore and all the financial s are outside of Thai jurisdiction. If you put yourself in the position of the Thai government for a moment, would you let that happen and lose not only the revenue but also the control! Personally I wouldn't want to test whether it is all kosher or not.

[briley]

hhgz:

I then went on to say "But then one always hears stories and I've never met one of these people."

For example I was told by one prospective purchaser that she was gazumped by a person who was willing to pay in Euro.

[trajan]

Other than by purchasing shares in an offshore company, I don't think it's possible. There as some outfits in my neck of the woods that claim to be able to sell you real estate using offshore companies hence the buyer can then pay in foreign currency offshore and all the financial s are outside of Thai jurisdiction. If you put yourself in the position of the Thai government for a moment, would you let that happen and lose not only the revenue but also the control! Personally I wouldn't want to test whether it is all kosher or not.

I think the question at hand is how to buy a condo without remitting funds into Thailand....land is another issue....

[chiang mai]

Other than by purchasing shares in an offshore company, I don't think it's possible. There as some outfits in my neck of the woods that claim to be able to sell you real estate using offshore companies hence the buyer can then pay in foreign currency offshore and all the financial s are outside of Thai jurisdiction. If you put yourself in the position of the Thai government for a moment, would you let that happen and lose not only the revenue but also the control! Personally I wouldn't want to test whether it is all kosher or not.

I think the question at hand is how to buy a condo without remitting funds into Thailand....land is another issue....

Condo, land, house or rubber duck, the same principles apply - down here the offshore process is offered to buy houses and condo's.

[baza]

my advise dont buy ,rent,this place is like a time bomb ,wiating to go off,and it will,and when it does RUN,sucker

[pjclark1]

My advice is don't buy, rent, this place is like a time bomb waiting to go off, and it will, and when it does RUN, sucker

What baza says.

You have got to be completely crazy to buy in Thailand at the moment.

Edited October 20, 2009 by pjclark1

[olsen]

My advice is don't buy, rent, this place is like a time bomb waiting to go off, and it will, and when it does RUN, sucker

What baza says.

You have got to be completely crazy to buy in Thailand at the moment.

He he, then we are a hel_l of a lot of crazy farangs here in LOS!

[trajan]

Other than by purchasing shares in an offshore company, I don't think it's possible. There as some outfits in my neck of the woods that claim to be able to sell you real estate using offshore companies hence the buyer can then pay in foreign currency offshore and all the financial s are outside of Thai jurisdiction. If you put yourself in the position of the Thai government for a moment, would you let that happen and lose not only the revenue but also the control! Personally I wouldn't want to test whether it is all kosher or not.

I think the question at hand is how to buy a condo without remitting funds into Thailand....land is another issue....

Condo, land, house or rubber duck, the same principles apply - down here the offshore process is offered to buy houses and condo's.

no, the same principles do not apply because ...condos (in the foreign quota) are freely purchasable by foreign companies...land is not....

[thaihome]

Very common for person to person transfers to be declared at the land dept at less then the actual price. The best you could do, as stated earlier, is transfer into Thailand the amount that will be declared and then transfer the rest directly to the person. The main problem with this will be the fact that when buying a new condo, the full price is declared, and if the owner is selling at significantly less then that, questions will undoubtedly be asked. Keep in the mind that the transfer tax is a large source of government revenue and is in fact the only time property is taxed.

TH

[ontherock]

Very common for person to person transfers to be declared at the land dept at less then the actual price. The best you could do, as stated earlier, is transfer into Thailand the amount that will be declared and then transfer the rest directly to the person. The main problem with this will be the fact that when buying a new condo, the full price is declared, and if the owner is selling at significantly less then that, questions will undoubtedly be asked. Keep in the mind that the transfer tax is a large source of government revenue and is in fact the only time property is taxed.

TH

You can a buy a condo here using local baht and not having it transfefrred in from abroad, if you have a work permit. I know this because i did it.

There is a law that allows you to alocate 40% of your earning towards the purchase of a condo.

Nobody likes you doing it this way, as they want the currency bought in, and you need a lot of paperwork to show that you have generated the money and paid tax on it, BUT you CAN DO it as i did - i went through hel_l to get to this, but i did managed to buy my condo in Bangkok and have the tabian ban in my name.

[trajan]

You can a buy a condo here using local baht and not having it transfefrred in from abroad, if you have a work permit. I know this because i did it.

There is a law that allows you to alocate 40% of your earning towards the purchase of a condo.

Nobody likes you doing it this way, as they want the currency bought in, and you need a lot of paperwork to show that you have generated the money and paid tax on it, BUT you CAN DO it as i did - i went through hel_l to get to this, but i did managed to buy my condo in Bangkok and have the tabian ban in my name.

wow, I ve never heard of that....what law is that? is it a special circumstance under a Board of Investment (BIO) approved project? or the like?

[chiang mai]

Other than by purchasing shares in an offshore company, I don't think it's possible. There as some outfits in my neck of the woods that claim to be able to sell you real estate using offshore companies hence the buyer can then pay in foreign currency offshore and all the financial s are outside of Thai jurisdiction. If you put yourself in the position of the Thai government for a moment, would you let that happen and lose not only the revenue but also the control! Personally I wouldn't want to test whether it is all kosher or not.

I think the question at hand is how to buy a condo without remitting funds into Thailand....land is another issue....

Condo, land, house or rubber duck, the same principles apply - down here the offshore process is offered to buy houses and condo's.

no, the same principles do not apply because ...condos (in the foreign quota) are freely purchasable by foreign companies...land is not....

Yes they are - I talk about condo's, house and rubber ducks, all of which can be purchased offshore without using Thai Baht using the same mechanism and the same principles, you talk about land purchase which is something else entirely.

[trajan]

Yes they are - I talk about condo's, house and rubber ducks, all of which can be purchased offshore without using Thai Baht using the same mechanism and the same principles, you talk about land purchase which is something else entirely.

the OP is talking about condos....houses and rubber ducks are not relevant.....(also who will buy a house without land?....will it be floating in the air)....

[chiang mai]

Yes they are - I talk about condo's, house and rubber ducks, all of which can be purchased offshore without using Thai Baht using the same mechanism and the same principles, you talk about land purchase which is something else entirely.

the OP is talking about condos....houses and rubber ducks are not relevant.....(also who will buy a house without land?....will it be floating in the air)....

Finally we've gone full circle on this!

Many farangs buy houses in Thailand without buying the land it sits on, instead the land is leased (whereas the house is purchased outright) since the transaction is split into two parts. Short of leasing both parts (land and house) there's not really any other way that a farang can legally buy the property - or did you have it mind that farang property purchases here were done some other way.

[chiang mai]

Yes they are - I talk about condo's, house and rubber ducks, all of which can be purchased offshore without using Thai Baht using the same mechanism and the same principles, you talk about land purchase which is something else entirely.

the OP is talking about condos....houses and rubber ducks are not relevant.....(also who will buy a house without land?....will it be floating in the air)....

Finally we've gone full circle on this!

Many farangs buy houses in Thailand without buying the land it sits on, instead the land is leased (whereas the house is purchased outright) since the transaction is split into two parts. Short of leasing both parts (land and house) there's not really any other way that a farang can legally buy the property - or did you have it mind that farang property purchases here were done some other way.

[trajan]

You can a buy a condo here using local baht and not having it transfefrred in from abroad, if you have a work permit. I know this because i did it.

There is a law that allows you to alocate 40% of your earning towards the purchase of a condo.

Nobody likes you doing it this way, as they want the currency bought in, and you need a lot of paperwork to show that you have generated the money and paid tax on it, BUT you CAN DO it as i did - i went through hel_l to get to this, but i did managed to buy my condo in Bangkok and have the tabian ban in my name.

I understand that as a foreigner, you can only avoid remitting into Thailand foreign currency to buy a condo in the following circumstances:

(a) foreigner having a permanent residence book (no need to show the FX form for the inward remittance of foreign funds)...OR

(b ) a condo being held in the name of a foreign company (for example, a Cayman Islands company) and the foreign buyer purchasing the shares of the company from the foreign buyer (in Euro, Pounds or Dollars)....(with the condo title deed remaining unchanged, but physically being surrendered to the buyer)...

if you went through another route to use local Baht to purchase the condo earned from local earnings (under a work permit), could you give some details? this might be generally helpful to the expat community...

[misterme]

As I understand it, once I sell my condo in Thailand, I can either send the money back home (showing the property transfer tax). Alternatively, if I choose to then buy another condo, I can use the tax withheld payment and be able to use the money from my sale to complete the purchase.<br />

<br />Note, I've only bought. Info above would need to be verified.

Edited October 29, 2009 by misterme

[db1tau]

We bought a condo already on name of my thai girlfriend. Is it possible to transfer it to my name without any money flowing? (Like giving it as a gift?) Or can she sell it to me at a symbolic price of 1000 THB or something like this?

And what is the problem with transfering the money out of thailand if I ever wanted to sell a condo on my name? Why is that not possible? Can't I just put it on a thai account and then send it abroad via SWIFT?

[chiang mai]

We bought a condo already on name of my thai girlfriend. Is it possible to transfer it to my name without any money flowing? (Like giving it as a gift?) Or can she sell it to me at a symbolic price of 1000 THB or something like this?

And what is the problem with transfering the money out of thailand if I ever wanted to sell a condo on my name? Why is that not possible? Can't I just put it on a thai account and then send it abroad via SWIFT?

Yes you can buy the condo from your girlfriend at whatever price you want and then register the purchase/sale at the Land Office, but you will still have to pay tax on the fair value of the property (some Land Offices in Thailand have a register that they use fro pricing purposes).

You can sell a condo and transfer the funds out of Thailand as long as you can (1) prove that the money you used to buy the condo were brought in from overseas, and (2) the amount of money you want to transfer back out of the country again does not exceed the amount shown on the Land Office (blue) tax/sales receipt.

[db1tau]

Yes you can buy the condo from your girlfriend at whatever price you want and then register the purchase/sale at the Land Office, but you will still have to pay tax on the fair value of the property (some Land Offices in Thailand have a register that they use fro pricing purposes).

Ok, but I guess the seller has to pay the tax. So I can just send in the equivalent of 1000 THB from abroad and get the letter from the bank? It won't work without that, if we declare the transfer as a gift? (of course the tax amount is the same, but I want to avoid paperwork, not taxes)

You can sell a condo and transfer the funds out of Thailand as long as you can (1) prove that the money you used to buy the condo were brought in from overseas, and (2) the amount of money you want to transfer back out of the country again does not exceed the amount shown on the Land Office (blue) tax/sales receipt.

If I just put it on a account and send it out by swift, who will stop me? Lets say I put it in as cash before. the bank can't even know it's money from a condo sale.

[chiang mai]

Yes you can buy the condo from your girlfriend at whatever price you want and then register the purchase/sale at the Land Office, but you will still have to pay tax on the fair value of the property (some Land Offices in Thailand have a register that they use fro pricing purposes).

Ok, but I guess the seller has to pay the tax. So I can just send in the equivalent of 1000 THB from abroad and get the letter from the bank? It won't work without that, if we declare the transfer as a gift? (of course the tax amount is the same, but I want to avoid paperwork, not taxes)

You can sell a condo and transfer the funds out of Thailand as long as you can (1) prove that the money you used to buy the condo were brought in from overseas, and (2) the amount of money you want to transfer back out of the country again does not exceed the amount shown on the Land Office (blue) tax/sales receipt.

If I just put it on a account and send it out by swift, who will stop me? Lets say I put it in as cash before. the bank can't even know it's money from a condo sale.

An example: the condo is worth 5 million baht and your girlfriend sells it to you for Baht 1,000. The Land Office will charge you tax on an amount very close to 5 million baht because they will know that's the real value - taxes on a 5 million baht sale will be around 150,000 baht.

When you finally sell the condo you get 5 million baht from your buyer and that money goes into your bank account. If when you sold the condo you declared the sales value as 5 million baht you will pay tax on the sale and receive a blue tax receipt which will let you transfer the 5 million baht out of the country. BUT, if the blue slip shows an amount of less than 5 mill., and the bank will want to see the blue receipt, whatever amount appears on the receipt is the maximum the bank will let you transfer. Whether or not the bank will want proof from you as to whether an amount close to 5 million baht was brought into the country by you, remains unclear.

FYI - banks in Thailand act as the agent for the central bank and enforce the BOE policy on funds transfer so they are pretty tight on these things.

[Khun Jean]

Thai banks and getting money out of Thailand, brrrr. That is certainly not easy the official way.

Luckily we have ATM cards.

If you need 5 million to be transfered to another country open 10 accounts with each 500k and get 10 atm cards. Make sure it is one that can be used internationally. Then get 100k per card every day and 5 days later you have 'transfered' it.

[hhgz]

"And what is the problem with transfering the money out of thailand if I ever wanted to sell a condo on my name? Why is that not possible?"

Ahhhh, it is possible. Not sure why you think you can't.