Is Thaksin Planning A Juan Peron-style Comeback?

[rixalex]

You have no idea what pleases my ears or not.

I think i have some idea. Perhaps you are not quite the complex individual you like to think you are.

My guess is that Pasuk/Baker have a number of opinions which match yours.So what.

Exactly - so what. I am not the one pushing them forward.

Try dealing with the issues for a change rather than personalising.

Good advice.

As i've said to you before, this is probably something you've been doing for so many years you are unaware of it, but barely a post of yours goes by without you questioning the intellect and depth of understanding of other members.

Assuming that you are smarter than people you actually know very little about is an ugly and an arrogant trait that detracts from the rest of what you have to say, which though i might not agree with, is usually well-reasoned and interesting.

[rixalex]

I'm still not brave enough to show up at a red shirt rally with my Thaksin go to jail GO DEMOCRACY shirt just yet :-)

Excellent post as usual Steve - all of it.

P.S. When you have summoned the courage to test this questionable assertion by some that there are reds involved in the movement who don't support the return of his holy square face, don't forget to say a hi to Koo82 and mc2 from all of us here at Thaivisa News Clippings!

[rixalex]

This whole discussion is full of statements as usual which contain lots of information but little common sense. I know personally Thai people who are not fans of Thaksin personally but still support red movement because they want to have some say in their own government.

The good thing about information is that it can be substaniated.

Anecdotal little tales of taxi drivers and laymen and women on the street on the other hand is completely at the mercy of the author, who can conjure up whatever he or she wishes in order to make the desired point.

[rixalex]

I believe it is true what one of the previous respondents here said. I believe at least some of the farangs here are so obsessed with Thaksin because his administration was not favorable to their own personal agenda.

You are refering to the poster Livinginexile, who labeled those who speak out against Thaksin as being sexpats. It was one of the most stupid comments to have been made so far in this thread, and it was in my opinion a flame that deserved to be deleted. Why am i not surprised you have thrown your support behind it?

[jayboy]

You have no idea what pleases my ears or not.

I think i have some idea. Perhaps you are not quite the complex individual you like to think you are.

My guess is that Pasuk/Baker have a number of opinions which match yours.So what.

Exactly - so what. I am not the one pushing them forward.

Try dealing with the issues for a change rather than personalising.

Good advice.

As i've said to you before, this is probably something you've been doing for so many years you are unaware of it, but barely a post of yours goes by without you questioning the intellect and depth of understanding of other members.

Assuming that you are smarter than people you actually know very little about is an ugly and an arrogant trait that detracts from the rest of what you have to say, which though i might not agree with, is usually well-reasoned and interesting.

I'm baffled by what you say, and can only suggest (again) that issues are dealt with rather than forum members personalities.

[Rumfoord]

I'm still not brave enough to show up at a red shirt rally with my Thaksin go to jail GO DEMOCRACY shirt just yet :-)

Excellent post as usual Steve - all of it.

yep, awesome as usual. everything. everytime.

[tomahawk]

No I was not necessarily referring to sexpats. I really do not think Thaksin affected sexpats one way or another. Not being one, I don't know. I was talking more about financial matters. As far as "facts" that can be substantiated, people can lie about them just as easily. I read in a reputable international magazime that the information that was used to convict Thaksin was fabricated by the opposition party and this can be proven. Actually I just made that up. See how easy that is. It is just as easy to make up these facts as it is taxi driver stories. I mean, who has time to check out all this stuff. Maybe you do, but I don't.

[mca]

Are you talking about the period where Thailand fell from being a top 20 country in terms of media freedom to outside the top 100?

Could you kindly provide a link to where Thailand was ever a top 20 country in terms of media freedom steve? If it were true it would put Thailand in with some pretty esteemed company and no disrespects intended with the stringent laws on lese majaeste here pretty hard to believe.

[steveromagnino]

No I was not necessarily referring to sexpats. I really do not think Thaksin affected sexpats one way or another. Not being one, I don't know. I was talking more about financial matters. As far as "facts" that can be substantiated, people can lie about them just as easily. I read in a reputable international magazime that the information that was used to convict Thaksin was fabricated by the opposition party and this can be proven. Actually I just made that up. See how easy that is. It is just as easy to make up these facts as it is taxi driver stories. I mean, who has time to check out all this stuff. Maybe you do, but I don't.

Actually, all this post is personal opinion not adequately supported by intelligent (or unintelligent) commentary but FWIW IMHO Thaksin's initial social order campaign heavily impacted sexpats because it effectively shut down the city at 1am, in some parts 12am and other parts 2am affecting nightlife. Bangkok changed significantly between 2000 and 2002, and the social order campaign at least with regards to closing hours has made a lasting effect on both closing times, age to enter bars as well as the potential police income to support the local gendarmes.

Purachai, at that time the second most popular TRT politician, clamped down on underage clubbing and the related sex trade of underagers (most of which is probably for local consumption, some for expats). There was also the clampdown on Chuwit and the other brothel owners during the TRT era, and inspections etc. It adversely affected many people in the entertainment industry, of which sexpats are just one relatively small group. The drug testing was pretty severe during that period, there is some suspicion as to why TRT was so strong in the social order campaign relating to the PM's own family, but market research supported that much of Bangkok and the cities appreciated the campaign; this was one of the TRT initiatives to really cater directly to the urban crowd's wishes; in fact for rural Thailand/less affluent who tended to provide the serving staff, the cleaners, the (less savoury aspects of night life work) 'jobs', the social order campaign probably hit their pockets heavily.

At that time, there was some condemnation of the policies among the sexpat crowd.

TRT also increased the visa fees and work permit fees considerably in about the 3rd or 4th year as I recall, causing a second outcry; again most working expats earning big money were unaffected, it tended to be the ones right on the brink that suffered most; and some of those people on the brink were sexpats.

They also instigated checks and the requirement for english teachers to have a degree at some point (IIRC) again causing an issue since for many sexpats, this was the occupation of choice; I am in no way implying that real teachers were affected by this, as a real teacher has a degree and most probably welcomed the efforts to kick the dregs out (dregs being somewhat synonomous with sexpat as many people visiting lower sukhumvit may be able to attest).

They also instigated the programs like Elite and other claims to shift away from backpacker low grade tourism (basically looking down on the sexpat and low spender categories) and instead focus on high quality tourism, used to justify things like eliminating the tax on yachts (considered high grade tourism); big TAT budgets for unseen in Thailand and also the various tweaks to visa schemes. A little at odds with the big increases in tourism numbers but tourism was always viewed as a renewable endless resource by both TRT and PPP and to some degree even by the current govt.

So all in all you might say the sexpat suffered from TRT mostly from the social order campaign.

Fortunately, by the time of 2007 to today, the economy being less strong as a result of global changes as well as the aftermath of the easy credit upcountry and a downturn in tourism since basically the heady days of pre chicken flu coverups, tsunami and political unrest commencing in late 2005 has (personal opinion) probably seen a decent increase in the number of ladies (and men) willing to sell their bodies to fund their family debts and thus right now supply (increased) vs. demand (tourism side reduced) probably makes this as good a time as any for the true blue sexpat to enjoy and partake in the smorgasbord of the flesh. Nothing has really changed in terms of direct policy for the sex industry since the late 90s, so as one bar dies, another replaces it. The costs have increased though in real terms I suspect, although I am no expert in this field.

After all, any real structural change to the Thai rural economy would have to focus on education, sustainable development and allowing villagers to stand on their own two feet without needing the sort of cash that prostitution can bring in to a family - instead tourism is like a highly flammable oil poured on the fires of consumption burning inside most of us; without any real checks and balances to stop in since 1997/98 it is a growing problem that has grown in line with tourism albeit at a slower rate. Without any real development in earning power or education upcountry, it is no wonder that Thailand remains, sadly, a bit of a hub of sex although certainly not the only one nor the largest.

Some of the NESDB studies relating to vocational desires for women in Isaan certainly speaks to this point; the problem has got worse not better (if you view prostitution and indirect prostituting yourself as a meea noi/mail order bride type as a problem, and of course, some people sexpats and non sexpats alike do not).

Tomahawk, if you wish to question anything I have said, I believe that most of the points I have commented on in past posts can be substantiated unless noted as an opinion or simply wrong as per press freedom and Thaksin's title. When I'm wrong or I don't have justification, I revisit and rethink.

Jayboy;

I will have a review of some of their work and get back to you; in general I like what they write; my comments tend to be quite specific, so bear with me; I do recall not really agreeing with stuff as I came across it; so let me revisit and where it is interesting, we can discuss. Always good to review the work of someone who can write and form ideas a lot better than I can.

Edited October 28, 2009 by steveromagnino

[steveromagnino]

Are you talking about the period where Thailand fell from being a top 20 country in terms of media freedom to outside the top 100?

Could you kindly provide a link to where Thailand was ever a top 20 country in terms of media freedom steve? If it were true it would put Thailand in with some pretty esteemed company and no disrespects intended with the stringent laws on lese majaeste here pretty hard to believe.

of course, you have indeed hit it spot on; try top 60. I do recall a top 20 ranking somewhere, perhaps for some obscure ranking of the BKK post as a newspaper....or maybe in terms of numbers of journos killed or something else sad.

but compared to 120-150th that range sounds a whole lot better dunnit.

Edited October 28, 2009 by steveromagnino

[mca]

Cheers.

[tomahawk]

Thank you steveromangino. That was very informative and interesting as I was not aware of most of that information.