Apartments Are Lower Square Than Paid

[dmitryspb]

It had to be abt 100 m2 according to contract and was paid respectively for 100 m2. After I got Chanot I found out it had 5 m2 less, abt 200.000 bat overpaid. 

Any opportunity to get overpaid funds back? Talks with management: only half to be guessed as my credit for "future maintenance fee". How much for the lawyer service in Phuket and perspectives generally? I aware lawyer would spend time and money for the case...

Phuket, foreign freehold, contract clearly states .: 100 m2 x 40.000 baht = 4.000.000 baht, no balance statements agreed in contract. 

[keeniau96]

It had to be abt 100 m2 according to contract and was paid respectively for 100 m2. After I got Chanot I found out it had 5 m2 less, abt 200.000 bat overpaid.

Any opportunity to get overpaid funds back? Talks with management: only half to be guessed as my credit for "future maintenance fee". How much for the lawyer service in Phuket and perspectives generally? I aware lawyer would spend time and money for the case...

Phuket, foreign freehold, contract clearly states .: 100 m2 x 40.000 baht = 4.000.000 baht, no balance statements agreed in contract.

I have a Thai lawyer (woman) who is very good on land law and speaks perfect english. Office on Chao Fa East road about halfway between town and Chalong temple. PM me if you want name and phone.

[dmitryspb]

Generally, I wouldn't like to use Thai lawyer as I don't trust them. Friend of mine spent time huge money and couldn't succeed anything...

[PattayaParent]

For sure they'd want you to pay extra if it was 1m2 oversize so no reason why you shouldn't get a full refund.

[hhgz]

"Generally, I wouldn't like to use Thai lawyer as I don't trust them."

So, your suggestion is to do nothing?

[trajan]

if the developer doesnt respond, Consumer Protection Board assistance may help....(I understand that some developers respond to this)...better than just doing nothing.....(if they shortchanged you, chances are that more customers were shortchanged....a group complaint at the CPB might be more effective in prodding some action.....)

http://www.consumersinternational.org/Temp...mp;strSubSite=1

however FIRST check your purchase contract...I have seen percentage thresholds before a refund kicks-in...for example the discrepancy must be greater than 5% before a proportionate refund to the customer is due.....

[[the new Condo law requires developers (going forward, but not retroactively) to use a standard condo pruchase contract, so that standard contract may be more neutral (consumer friendly) on this point]]

Edited October 21, 2009 by trajan

[dmitryspb]

if the developer doesnt respond, Consumer Protection Board assistance may help....(I understand that some developers respond to this)...better than just doing nothing.....(if they shortchanged you, chances are that more customers were shortchanged....a group complaint at the CPB might be more effective in prodding some action.....)

however FIRST check your purchase contract...I have seen percentage thresholds before a refund kicks-in...for example the discrepancy must be greater than 5% before a proportionate refund to the customer is due.....

Of course, I read contract! Only "price x square meters = total cost". No any 5% was adopted. Using CPB is not serious, this would be like Rolex would claim for huge variety of fakes along streets...

No, I do not intend to surrender! Too many other customers are involved, if I cannot settle the matter peacefully on december while my visit, I'd use lawyer, surely!

I generally asked if any of others met such experience before...

[malcolminthemiddle]

If you have over paid according to the Contract you are entitled to a refund of the over payment.

The Developer has tried to negotiate the repayment of this over payment by proposing Baht 100,000 is returned in cash and the other Baht 100,000 used as an advance payment against service charges estimated to be approx 2 ½ years at the rate of Baht 40,000 per year.

Your options are:

1. Accept the Developers proposal.

2. Counter propose i.e increase cash payment and reduce service charge to say one year in advance (you have to pay the service charge any way).

3. Insist on immediate full reimbursement

Should you decide on option 3 and you are unable to resolve the situation yourself amicably a polite phone call from a prominent Thai lawyer to the Developer (enquiring how the Developer intends to repay the over payment) should be sufficient since the fact there has been an over payment is not in dispute.

Whatever option you choose you should find a way to resolve the dispute in an amicably way so not to prejudice you living a peaceful life in your new condo.

[eljeque]

The Developer has tried to negotiate the repayment of this over payment by proposing Baht 100,000 is returned in cash and the other Baht 100,000 used as an advance payment against service charges estimated to be approx 2 ½ years at the rate of Baht 40,000 per year.

Although from the West, we hate doing it this way, I have to say that in Thailand, it is in your best interests to ... accept the above, for the most part, but the 100,000 which will apply towards the 2 1/2 years, will now apply towards 3 years... time is money. If he is unhappy with that, then ask for it to be returned to you NOW instead.

NO kidding, I think that if he offered the above, you got off lucky. I know it sounds nuts, but if you are getting your money back withoutt he tie and money and effort of a case in court, you have done well.

best of luck

[dmitryspb]

No, guys! Why did you decide abt 100+100? They offered 100 KBaht for maintenance fee credit only and nothing more! No more! If they offer 100.000 by cash and 100.000 for credit I would agree, of course! That was my proposal in the beginning of talks, by the way... And they rejected it at ince referring to "global crisis", "invisible vents' squares", bad sales etc.

Edited October 28, 2009 by dmitryspb

[donx]

I generally asked if any of others met such experience before...

I read a thread previously on here where a member had the opposite problem - his condo was bigger than originally designed and he had to pay more for it than he was expecting. What is interesting though is that in his case this all came up before the title was transferred whereas for you it appears the the title was transferred prior to the discrepency being discovered. It seems to me they intentionally tried to cover up the situation. Get a lawyer and get your money back.

[SnareBear]

It had to be abt 100 m2 according to contract and was paid respectively for 100 m2. After I got Chanot I found out it had 5 m2 less, abt 200.000 bat overpaid.

Any opportunity to get overpaid funds back? Talks with management: only half to be guessed as my credit for "future maintenance fee". How much for the lawyer service in Phuket and perspectives generally? I aware lawyer would spend time and money for the case...

Phuket, foreign freehold, contract clearly states .: 100 m2 x 40.000 baht = 4.000.000 baht, no balance statements agreed in contract.

Why did you pay the final balance of the contract BEFORE you inspected the condo?

Of course they will cheat you out of what ever they can. Thats why you need a final inspection before you pay the remaining balance.

Forget about this. Its only 5% of your condo, not worth fighting over. There are many other issues that will come up in the future that you should save your energy for. Loss of electricity, internet connection, poor water pressure, maintenance fees that should have been included in the monthly fee, barking dogs, pool cleaning, etc.

[dmitryspb]

Why did you pay the final balance of the contract BEFORE you inspected the condo?

Of course they will cheat you out of what ever they can. Thats why you need a final inspection before you pay the remaining balance.

Forget about this. Its only 5% of your condo, not worth fighting over. There are many other issues that will come up in the future that you should save your energy for. Loss of electricity, internet connection, poor water pressure, maintenance fees that should have been included in the monthly fee, barking dogs, pool cleaning, etc.

Look:

- I paid full sum 1 year BEFORE the construction was completed, contract' terms

- they have just given me over Chanot and nothing more, I could even miss it. But figures were clear for me and question arose.

- I will fight because they ALREADY offered me 100 KBaht for maintenance fee! I hope to fight over more.

PLEASE, share your experience about water and electricity and opportunity to get own internet, I have own telephone line with direct number pre-installed. I got bill with 15 baht/kW hr for electricity! I haven't paid yet as quit for home.

It is more than double price! I know it is needed to conclude with electric Co. direcetly, but how to find it in Phuket??? How to be with water bills?

Thank you, all of you, guys, for any comments!

Edited November 3, 2009 by dmitryspb

[Jdietz]

I got bill with 15 baht/kW hr for electricity! I haven't paid yet as quit for home.

Well these are things to consider way before you buy an apartment in a complex. It's most likely not possible to get your own meter installed and have to pay whatever they ask...

Hope you don't like airconditioning too much...

[hhgz]

dmitri,

"PLEASE, share your experience about water and electricity and opportunity to get own internet, I have own telephone line with direct number pre-installed. I got bill with 15 baht/kW hr for electricity! I haven't paid yet as quit for home. It is more than double price! I know it is needed to conclude with electric Co. direcetly, but how to find it in Phuket??? How to be with water bills?"

Have you ever owned a home anywhere, before you bought a place in Thailand? You seem to be clueless about everything involved. When people ask you questions, or provide you suggestions, you get angry.

[dmitryspb]

No angry, friends! We share one boat, generally. Just hearing.

Anyway, I'll post later how the deals will go on. I do hope it helps others.

Edited November 10, 2009 by dmitryspb

[think_too_mut]

....I got bill with 15 baht/kW hr for electricity! I haven't paid yet as quit for home.

It is more than double price! I know it is needed to conclude with electric Co.

15 baht?

Hard to believe that.

I thought 5.5B at former mansion was double markup by the building.

[dmitryspb]

So far, so good... My issue has been successfully solved! Developer agreed to cover "maintenance fee" by overpaid money (more than 5 years in fact). We cooperated with one of my neighbour and enageged thai lawyer: one written official claim was enough and they surrended. Electricity charge is 5 baht offered now. Less scepticism, my friends, don't give up! Claim costs abt 4000 baht from (2000 baht/person).

Edited May 15, 2010 by dmitryspb

[stgrhe]

So far, so good... My issue has been successfully solved! Developer agreed to cover "maintenance fee" by overpaid money (more than 5 years in fact). We cooperated with one of my neighbour and enageged thai lawyer: one written official claim was enough and they surrended. Electricity charge is 5 baht offered now. Less scepticism, my friends, don't give up! Claim costs abt 4000 baht from (2000 baht/person).

Good show and congratulations!

[Wallerder]

So far, so good... My issue has been successfully solved! Developer agreed to cover "maintenance fee" by overpaid money (more than 5 years in fact). We cooperated with one of my neighbour and enageged thai lawyer: one written official claim was enough and they surrended. Electricity charge is 5 baht offered now. Less scepticism, my friends, don't give up! Claim costs abt 4000 baht from (2000 baht/person).

Good result individually, but I suspect bad result for the Condo. Will the project developer really contribute your overpaid amount as CAM fees into the Condo accounts? If they don't the CAM fees are likely to a have a shortfall (to be concealed by the developer?) and Condo services will suffer. Make sure you get receipts for any CAM fee payments made by the Developer on your behalf, otherwise you may find yourself with problems later, e.g. if you try to sell and it turns out you have a 'debt' to the Condo.

[witold]

Looks like you are happy with your resolution.

I was going to suggest that you tell the developer that you will contact every owner in the building and tell them that they overcharged you and suggest that they check their condo size as well. In other words, instead of dealing with you, they might have many more complaints and problems from other people. At that point they would probably pay you out just to keep you quiet...

...although if it was me I would still contact every owner and tell them to make sure they got what they paid for - my neighbors don't deserve to get screwed either.

[Mercury]

So far, so good... My issue has been successfully solved! Developer agreed to cover "maintenance fee" by overpaid money (more than 5 years in fact). We cooperated with one of my neighbour and enageged thai lawyer: one written official claim was enough and they surrended. Electricity charge is 5 baht offered now. Less scepticism, my friends, don't give up! Claim costs abt 4000 baht from (2000 baht/person).

Why is your electricity rate 5 baht when the real supply rate is (or at least was last time I checked) around 3.5 baht ?

[dmitryspb]

In fact, I've warned everybody I know in condo, but seems people mostly don't care . There are only several owners living and 80% of units are engaged for renting. Yes, 5 baht/kW is still high - I don't paid ANYTHING yet. Wallerder, thanx - you are right, I'll inquire agreement' draft to sign and make clear. Developer maintains condo itself. To be continued...