Tourist Numbers Drop By Almost One Million

[KevinHunt]

Many businesses, such as restaurants, bars and other entertainment venues in Chiang Mai are now changing they're tactics and aiming for the ex-pat clientele, because the revenue gained from the low percentage of tourists visiting Chiang Mai is no longer enough to sustain these businesses.

I hope it doesn't come to that. Of course the "No Riff Raff' sign would have to go.

[john b good]

anyone know hotel occupancy numbers in CM? Isnt breakeven 50% ?

I wonder what will be done if anything to attract tourists, cant see them coming for a baby panda.

Definately challeging times ahead

From my information provided by the manager of one of Chiang Mai's leading hotels (not one of these recently opened glass edifice's) that hotel occupancy is running at barely 40%

As to the "break even" level I don't know.

And whilst we are talking about new enterprises think about the number of new "spa's" that have popped up over the last 2 -3 years. It has been suggested that these are just a part of money laundering operations.

[Ulysses G.]

And whilst we are talking about new enterprises think about the number of new "spa's" that have popped up over the last 2 -3 years. It has been suggested that these are just a part of money laundering operations.

I would normally suggest that this is some sort of wacky fantasy, but last year the Duang Tawan took over much of the fitness center floor and put a lot of money in a spa which has never had a single customer that I have seen.

How CAN all these businesses that make no money keep on staying open year after year?

Edited October 22, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[john b good]

what percentage of gdp is foriegn tourism? Will it have a significant impact on the economy outside the tourism areas?

It has a large roll on effect on the wider economy when tourism numbers are down.

In 2007 it was 6.7% (567 billion baht) of GDP

If it was 6.7% in 2007 it is likely that it was significantly lower in 2008 and more so this year given the political chaos, red shirts, lack of personal safety, taxi scams at Suwarnabhumi, theft scams at King Power, etc., etc.

And they cannot blame the downturn on expats (other than those who advise their friends and acquaintances to stay away) it is all Thai generated.

Bars closed because of local elections, alcohol not permitted to be sold between 09.00 - 11.00 and again between 14.00 - 17.00 "unless you buy in bulk for a major p1ss up", and an underlying fact is that a goodly number of Thai's resent the fact that tourist's (particularly caucasions) are even in the country.

Amazing Thailand

Edited October 22, 2009 by john b good

[elektrified]

I would gladly visit Chiang Rai if I could get a clean, comfortable hotel with a swimming pool for a good rate like I can in Pattaya. I enjoy it there and I can swim and hang around the hotel if there is nothing else to do.

One problem with Thailand is room rates are too expensive for many backpackers and they find much better deals in other countries. They just keep going up even though there are fewer customers.

I think you probably can? Perhaps not in the cheap & cheerful 500-1000 baht range, but at the top end things are really desperate. Le Meridien is doing crazy deals both in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai.

Also last time I found a nice 700 baht room in Chiang Rai; and obviously at the backpacker end if the spectrum (which us well below that) there is even more choice. You don't find that segment in Pattaya unless you include horrifyingly sleazy dives.

so it really depends where you sweet spit is in accommodation.

I was in Chiang Rai for a couple of days recently. Chiang Rai has been hit much harder by the economic crisis than C.M. I was amazed at how many restaurants, massage shops, bars, etc. had gone out of business and the amount of vacant buildings for rent. I even noticed one nice hotel that had locked its front doors until things improved. There was no shortage of nice places to stay. As WTK said, things are really desperate there. All over the main street, touts were hustling tourists, offering deep discounts on hotels and guesthouses.

[caf]

Tourist Numbers Drop By Almost One Million

I can't for the life of me think why anyone is surprised at this NEWS! We're in the middle of a Global Economic Recession for crying out loud! Money is tight around the world. Millions have lost their jobs, and those that still have them are not spending for fear of uncertainty. Financial insecurity if rife, so holidays abroad are one of the first things that people cut back on in such times.

It's my guess that the folks out here on retirement are the main contributors to this thread? I say that because the working population will know why tourism is down because they're the poor buggers that ain't gonna make it this year! That's what the thread is about right, Tourist Numbers Drop By Almost One Million

Most pensions will be paid out come rain, come shine, come hel_l or high water, so recession or no recession, those on retirement should still get their money regardless of the times. But for those that travel here on holiday, which is mainly the working population, times are tough. It's as simple as that really and has little to do with Thailand losing it's sparkle as a favourite tourist destination. As lovely as it is here, I doubt that people are going to beg borrow and steal just to have their fortnight in the sun!

It is the reasons above my fellow posters, why the tourist numbers have dropped by almost one million, and it ain't unique to the land of smiles either! You watch, the minute the world is back on track and gainful employment can be found within a day, the tourist numbers in Thailand will pick up where they left off at their peak and the trend will be upwards.

Aitch

"I can't for the life of me think why anyone is surprised at this NEWS! We're in the middle of a Global Economic Recession for crying out loud!"

You are right that there is a recession. But when people DO go on holiday there is evidence - see posts in this thread - that they are no longer choosing Thailand so much.

Airport closure, political uncertainty, scams, comparative value for money .....

That is the point and it is a great pity.

[caf]

anyone know hotel occupancy numbers in CM? Isnt breakeven 50% ?

I wonder what will be done if anything to attract tourists, cant see them coming for a baby panda.

Definately challeging times ahead

From my information provided by the manager of one of Chiang Mai's leading hotels (not one of these recently opened glass edifice's) that hotel occupancy is running at barely 40%

As to the "break even" level I don't know.

And whilst we are talking about new enterprises think about the number of new "spa's" that have popped up over the last 2 -3 years. It has been suggested that these are just a part of money laundering operations.

40% ? I would have thought a lot less. I don't know the hotel you refer to or the manager but I do know the occupancy rates over the last year for one major hotel and it is nowhere near 40.

Interesting point about how money can be poured into ventures when there is no potential or actual demand.

[elektrified]

Tourist Numbers Drop By Almost One Million

I can't for the life of me think why anyone is surprised at this NEWS! We're in the middle of a Global Economic Recession for crying out loud! Money is tight around the world. Millions have lost their jobs, and those that still have them are not spending for fear of uncertainty. Financial insecurity if rife, so holidays abroad are one of the first things that people cut back on in such times.

It's my guess that the folks out here on retirement are the main contributors to this thread? I say that because the working population will know why tourism is down because they're the poor buggers that ain't gonna make it this year! That's what the thread is about right, Tourist Numbers Drop By Almost One Million

Most pensions will be paid out come rain, come shine, come hel_l or high water, so recession or no recession, those on retirement should still get their money regardless of the times. But for those that travel here on holiday, which is mainly the working population, times are tough. It's as simple as that really and has little to do with Thailand losing it's sparkle as a favourite tourist destination. As lovely as it is here, I doubt that people are going to beg borrow and steal just to have their fortnight in the sun!

Aitch

I disagree with you a little Drew. Some of those private pension funds were holding securities in which the underlying companies either went belly up, or have cut/suspended their dividends, and as a result many people are getting far less than they were before the crisis. Furthermore, the devaluation of some world currencies has made a tremendous impact especially when exchanging currencies. Those on government pensions probably haven't been affected too bad but those with privately managed pension funds have.

The bottom line: Everyone with the exception of the fabulously wealthy has been affected in one way or another.

Furthermore the cost of living and/or vacationing in Thailand has gone way up! I'm amazed at how little a 1000 Baht bank note gets you when you shop at Carrefour, Tesco, etc. It ain't the way it was 20 years ago - or even 10 years ago here...

[kalbo123]

Many Europeans go these day's to Turkey, they offer 10 day's in a 5 star resort/hotel for around 750 euro per person inclusive flight and food! Thailand used to be cheap for all kinds of tourists.. these day's are over...

[PeaceBlondie]

My son in Ireland vacations in Florida, Spain, Turkey. I've had one couple visit me in 6 years; they were spending a small inheritance to study a remote Myanmar language. A friend lost half his net worth in the crash; another postponed his retirement to CMai by two years. Home prices are down by 40%. Unemployment running 10%.

[Donnyboy]

Furthermore the cost of living and/or vacationing in Thailand has gone way up! I'm amazed at how little a 1000 Baht bank note gets you when you shop at Carrefour, Tesco, etc. It ain't the way it was 20 years ago - or even 10 years ago here...

but thats the same with all fiat currencies, the US$ will be sinking faster than most, helicopter Ben isnt helping....watch the price of oil, and other commodities rise,

who knows, in a few years, America will be the place to go for a cheap holiday, thats if you have non US based currency/income

[anonymouse]

From a UK perspective one of the reasons for the lack of British tourists would be the poor rate for sterling and also the hiking of prices for everything over the last few years.

My Mother came to visit for the last couple of weeks for the first time in three years and we worked out with the price hikes and sterlings depreciation she was well over 50% worse off probably more.

We visited Malaysia which was full of English Tourists making use of the cheap Air Asia direct flights from London to KL. Apart from beer KL seemed if not cheaper at least competitive with Thailand.

[ESB7]

Its not only CM, everywhere in Thailand is suffering although some places a lot more than others. There is a world recession but more importantly Thailand has become so very expensive over the past 2-3 years, tourists are going elswhere that is better value for money. Not so long ago my brother and his family wanted to visit me but he would almost have needed a 2nd mortgage for flights, hotels and transfers etc. Instead he booked an all inclusive late deal on Teletext for 35% of the cost of coming here.....how many others are doing the same??? and thats not even taking into account the political problems over the past few years.

[spaceshipcrew]

im surprised CM isnt overflowing by now, coz CM was going to be the Asian Tourist/IT/medical Hub of SE asia

HUB

Events HUB

Aviation Hub

Movie hub

hub hub hub

...

[Thakkar]

In post # 34, JBG said:

"an underlying fact is that a goodly number of Thai's resent the fact that tourist's (particularly caucasions) are even in the country."

That is a rather surprising fact, if true.

[jackr]

There is a world recession but more importantly Thailand has become so very expensive over the past 2-3 years, tourists are going elsewhere that is better value for money.

Yep, prices have really increased on food, beer and hotels... no longer a great deal for holidaymakers and especially those from the UK with a crap exchange rate. Think CM is always going to struggle compared with other places as it's a bit of a pain to get to and no beach.

[Ricardo]

Perhaps C.M. might steal a trick, from 'Hat Chiang Rai', and open a 'beach' upstream on the river ?

But how to explain the brown water, and lack of a coral-reef, oh well ... back to the drawing-board.

[cmdream]

Furthermore the cost of living and/or vacationing in Thailand has gone way up! I'm amazed at how little a 1000 Baht bank note gets you when you shop at Carrefour, Tesco, etc. It ain't the way it was 20 years ago - or even 10 years ago here...

but thats the same with all fiat currencies, the US$ will be sinking faster than most, helicopter Ben isnt helping....watch the price of oil, and other commodities rise,

who knows, in a few years, America will be the place to go for a cheap holiday, thats if you have non US based currency/income

No worries mate the USA and the dollar will be fine. You should be concerned about the Sterling. The British banks are in a tailspin. When the truth comes out about those banks I would not want to be a Brit living in Thailand. Chok dee.

[elektrified]

Perhaps C.M. might steal a trick, from 'Hat Chiang Rai', and open a 'beach' upstream on the river ?

But how to explain the brown water, and lack of a coral-reef, oh well ... back to the drawing-board.

That's already been done. The C.M. "beach" is on the road to the elephant camps in Mae Taeng. I tried to go there one time on the way back from one of the elephant camps (which was closed) but it was closed too. No tourists....why bother opening I guess....

[elektrified]

No worries mate the USA and the dollar will be fine. You should be concerned about the Sterling. The British banks are in a tailspin. When the truth comes out about those banks I would not want to be a Brit living in Thailand. Chok dee.

I really question whether the USA and the dollar will be fine...

[cmdream]

No worries mate the USA and the dollar will be fine. You should be concerned about the Sterling. The British banks are in a tailspin. When the truth comes out about those banks I would not want to be a Brit living in Thailand. Chok dee.

I really question whether the USA and the dollar will be fine...

WHY ?

[Bolo]

Ha, great minds.. Anyway, I liked that Chiang Mai Mail series of news reports.. Maybe they're getting better. I also liked the plans for beautification of key areas in town. (not that it will do anything for tourist numbers and especially not foreign tourist numbers in the short term, but it's nice for residents as well.)

I think the main issue is that to Western tourists, Chiang Mai is perceived as being touristy and without any real adventure to it, which used to be the main reason to visit. To new markets (Eastern Europe, Russia, China, India etc) there's just not anything here that people want to see.

Keep in mind it may not be such a bad thing, unless you're in the tourism business of course. Who wants to see place turn into Pattaya? (And I LIKE Pattaya, before anyone jumps on that, I just wouldn't want Chiang Mai to be anything like it. )

I'm from the USA (please don't bash me for a sec) and honestly I have felt like i've been in the loop over the years. Pretty sociable person, educated and always loved to travel mainly here in US but I really don't ever recall picking up on Thailand that much over the years as far as a place to go. I'm not like a world traveler but I had never considered or even thought about Thailand till I met my girlfriend. Now of course I just love the place but I just don't think the word is getting out to the general population in the states.

I've certainly praised it to my friends since I've been there so I'm sure I've generated some thoughts about it to them now.

Possibly the advertising dollar is being sent more to UK,Aust etc. Just don't see it here like we do the Bahamas, Mexico, Caribbean Islands etc. that are closer to us. Mexico is getting little US dollar right now because they have a major drug war going on with multiple killings of military and police. Noone wants to go there now.

[Ulysses G.]

No worries mate the USA and the dollar will be fine. You should be concerned about the Sterling. The British banks are in a tailspin. When the truth comes out about those banks I would not want to be a Brit living in Thailand. Chok dee.

I really question whether the USA and the dollar will be fine...

WHY ?

No one really "knows" except the wack-jobs who think they know everything and are wrong 99% of the time. You will find out when it happens.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

While I share the general impression that tourism is down (and significantly down), so far, this year, I question the reliability of the sources of information in the article cited at the start of this post in the following ways :

1. as is typical of Chiang Mai Mail screed (one reason I don't bother to read it) : the article is not dated and does not identify the place and the context in which the (speech ? presentation ?) was made. While there are some quotation marks used in the article, it is hard to tell the difference between the (assumed) author of the article's contents and the content that came from the person who supposedly is the source of the article's content. Who was the audience for this speech or presentation; who sponsored the event, and what agendas might the speaker, or the sponsor of the event have ?

2. there is no identification of the statistical sources, and the methods of data gathering, for describing tourism as being "one million down."

3. other comments on this post have mentioned, vaguely, private information from sources "who should know," and while I don't question the veracity, or intent, of other posters in sharing remarks like this, neither can I give them "creedence" other than as "hearsay."

4. the general question of whether any "reliable" statistical information on hotel bookings, tour bookings, occupancy rates is available AT ALL is, to me, an "open question" : simply because "face" gets involved : do you really think the very high-end 4-star+ hotels here are going to make publicly known how "bad" their revenues and occupancy rates are ?

5. Yes, I would also question information from TAT and any other national-level "official" organization.

Maybe I've got this all wrong : I would love for someone to correct me and point me to a rigorously audited survey, conducted on a regular basis, with data collection methods described, and statistical summary analytic methods revealed !

As I write this, less than two kilometers from where I live : a gigantic new hotel/spa going up (work is going on night and day) with (my guess) at least 100 rooms due to open in the first few months of 2010. It's in a neighborhood which, imho, is dingy, and has nothing to offer in terms of access to anything but the railway station, has almost no "nature" left around it (but they are busy importing huge trees right now and planting them on the grounds of the to-be-hotel). A new two meter fence with barbed wire (military grade) is now being finished along the narrow side soi that runs along the north-south side of it (almost guaranteeing if I am run off the road on my bicycle I will go to the hospital).

Somebody is betting many milions of baht on the future of that hotel, but who, and why ?

Sorry to sound like a nattering skeptic, and I and I wish in our hearts for all the best for this lovely city.

Meanwhile, I will continue to enjoy the "psychic readings" being given so freely here by our many resident clairvoyants for whom it obviously makes no difference how many tea leaves there are to read

best, ~o:37;

Edited October 23, 2009 by orang37

[cognos]

more Brits get killed in LOS than any other tourist destination, so perhaps thousands are stopping off in Portugal, etc. instead, which may account for part of the number, but I doubt it

[Johpa]

And whilst we are talking about new enterprises think about the number of new "spa's" that have popped up over the last 2 -3 years. It has been suggested that these are just a part of money laundering operations.

Are you suggesting that all those "resorts" around the north that never seem to have a single guest now have competition? I suppose it is more convenient to have a spa in town rather than a resort along the Samoeng loop.

[lannarebirth]

And whilst we are talking about new enterprises think about the number of new "spa's" that have popped up over the last 2 -3 years. It has been suggested that these are just a part of money laundering operations.

Are you suggesting that all those "resorts" around the north that never seem to have a single guest now have competition? I suppose it is more convenient to have a spa in town rather than a resort along the Samoeng loop.

There was something in the news the other day whereby the government was looking to enact legislation that would beefit spas. I think it was some kind of tax relief or incentive. I wonder if somplace like the D2 could be taxed at a lower rate simply for having a spa on the premises? Ah, here it is:

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255210150041

Edited October 23, 2009 by lannarebirth

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The Pravda Nation, on the other hand, has a more optimistic view.

" A booming high season ahead for north,south "

Published on October 23, 2009

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/10/23...ss_30115066.php

:D

Some genuine good news also though:

http://www.tourismthailand.org/news/releas...ntent-2453.html

A new Ratchapruek 2009 Garden event is guaranteed to attract Thai tourists, especially as a combo with that Panda baby. Opportunities abound to chat up visiting BKK lasses @ Nimman after..

Though.. I'm not sure if work has started on that? The signs at the roundabout still are the now tired looking 'Ratchapruek 2006'..

Edited October 23, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Priceless]

more Brits get killed in LOS than any other tourist destination, so perhaps thousands are stopping off in Portugal, etc. instead, which may account for part of the number, but I doubt it

"more Brits get killed in LOS than any other tourist destination". You mean except for Spain, France and Germany? ( http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/news/latest-news/...&id=5226726 )

Why on earth do posters without a clue keep on posting misinformation like this?

/ Priceless

[Donnyboy]

No worries mate the USA and the dollar will be fine. You should be concerned about the Sterling. The British banks are in a tailspin. When the truth comes out about those banks I would not want to be a Brit living in Thailand. Chok dee.

I really question whether the USA and the dollar will be fine...

WHY ?

im not concerned about the Sterling as much as the $, cause the $ is the worlds reserve currency.

Oil & commodities are priced in $, and any drop in value in the $ effects the price, and we all pay more. If the powers at be change pricing oil and commodities etc to something else like the euro, then i might be less concerned, but that could lead to the demise of the $ and another crash that would slow China, Japan and nations that hold huge reserves of $ dollars and debt, it would probably cause another recession

this is only my view from reading into the subject in the last few years, and im not a finance guru, so i could be wrong

im picking US banks are due for another hit, well banks that hold mortgages for commercial properties, think of retail spending in the US, retail staff layoffs, etc, theres more to come imo

and ive read that banks maybe cooking the books on their numbers to make it seem that they are making profits, so bankers can make their bonuses