If You Had 25m Baht How Would You Invest It?

[sokal]

Right guys, it's all agreed and i'm real happy with the deal, the business is being sold for 30m, but the land the business is located on is leased, I am sub leasing the land and will recieve 350,000 a year for the next three years, then every 3 years a 10% increase. This is the difference between what the new owner is paying in rent and what I have to pay the landlord. All parties are aware and happy with the arrangement.

I'm happy with this deal and I reckon I can survive on this. I may actually move to a cheaper part of thailand, that way I reckon I could live on around 60k. If I use the 350k, and draw as little as possible off the main portfolio, that should grow into a decent amount in 15-20 years.

trust me. you will want to work again. I have retired 3 times (the first when I was 29) I never lasted more than 3 months and it is nothing to do with needing money. The truth is we all need to be busy or bad things happen!

Spot-on wordchild - not sure if I want to 'retire' any time soon. As strange as it may seem, I enjoy my job very much.

Take for example someone like Warren Buffett who probably could have retired at age 25 or less. It would have driven him crazy...

Some people cant stand work, being an alarm clock slave for more then you need to is just wierd. Its not like Warren Buffet was roofing or doing construction. If you consider constant investing and market studying work then I will probably not retire either.

[aras]

nobody is listening to this guy

my friend anybody who really has an idea and knows what you should do Will not tell you obviously

so forget it

the thing noted in this thread are just general knowledge and wont work for you.

you are on your own, unless you give me your money to work with it ill guarantee you your initial investments appreciation and your monthly 100k

[aras]

warren buffet is not a human he is a cheap bastard , he is the real slave, slave of money and work, he is disgusting. It is clear that all the poorcrap here are worshipping the ritch guy who has no caracter no family, no life, nothing except greed and hollow ambition. who the f.... is warren buffet

[sokal]

warren buffet is not a human he is a cheap bastard , he is the real slave, slave of money and work, he is disgusting. It is clear that all the poorcrap here are worshipping the ritch guy who has no caracter no family, no life, nothing except greed and hollow ambition. who the f.... is warren buffet

Warren Buffet does his investing for fun obviously, do you think he needs the money ? He also has 3 kids and his wife died in 04.

Who is poor in this thread other then you ? Do you know my net worth ?

[aras]

sokal , he is almost dying and he is not doing it for fun the old bastard just because he just doesnt know how to live on if he doesn't carry on doint what he has been doing all his life. I dont give a dam_n your worth, ass a person you are not woth much if you call a really old guy who does nothing but make more and more money an guy having fun looool

i explaine what fun for a really old man is,

playing with your (grand) childeren seeing their happyness, sharing your stories with them, getting and giving love to each other.

enjoy beauty, art, music, sunset

in his case sharing knowledg and what ever

not investing in stockmarkets and chatting with bill gates and being bitter about people, you may admire him but sure hope you dont want to be a man like him. lol

enjoy your life, especially the small things my friend

it is clear tha most peple here writing about free wducation in the west did not go to school in the WEST lol

because i have lived most my life and all m education in one of the most leftist countries in the West and did have to pay for my education although subsidised and left me with a 60 000 euros of education debt come on people

Edited November 8, 2009 by aras

[sokal]

it is clear tha most peple here writing about free wducation in the west did not go to school in the WEST lol

because i have lived most my life and all m education in one of the most leftist countries in the West and did have to pay for my education although subsidised and left me with a 60 000 euros of education debt come on people

I think they where talking about having kids and putting them through school.

[Heng]

On the taxes, I pay similar rates on salary here as back in the west. The difference is over there I get something for it. Key point is you don't need to pay for good education in the west, here you do. Also people with no income in the west can have access to good education free. So net net anyone with kids here will be spending additional money on their education here. Back in the west there's no need - although as you say you can select a private school if you want.

Sure you don't need a car anywhere, but I'd like a standard of living similar to back in the west. That includes a home and a car. Virtually all cars are more expensive here. Lugging babies/young kids around on public transport in Thailand (even BTS/MRT) is not much fun either. As for taxis, buses, rail etc they're often much less safe than your own car where you have baby/child seats and convenience of use as and when you want, maintained to a safe standard

School taxes typically are a part of your property tax. Our Texas property taxes easily would pay for tuition at any gov't school and many second/third tier private schools here. Folks could argue either way which is better though. I'd lean towards education in my Eanes school district in Texas being superior to the more expensive ISB / RIS etc. private schooling here, although part of the reason is that I think the intangibles like a developed athletic program and lots of extracurricular activities, AND access to Austin's libraries, UT, etc. make it better. It's certainly not free though, especially for folks who don't own their properties outright... it's like their home loan is also a school loan which would also go against anyone who thinks it's free... it's worse, you might also be paying interest!

Cars cost more upfront but less to maintain in the long run, even at the dealership. A whole lot less if you go with aftermarket parts and private garages where labor units are typically a third or a fourth stateside.

[Abrak]

playing with your (grand) childeren seeing their happyness, sharing your stories with them, getting and giving love to each other.

enjoy beauty, art, music, sunset

in his case sharing knowledg and what ever

Gee you make growing old sound depressing - think I am going to top myself at 50.

[fletchsmile]

... Anyone who says that a western country is cheaper to live in then Thailand is doing something wrong.

Education: Good education is available free in the west. Here to get a something of a similar quality and that would say be recognised by an oversees university at a later date is expensive. Highly relevant to OP.

Cars - much more expensive to buy here compared to the west. Particularly "luxury" brands

Both these can easily swing the numbers.

Educations are paid for by municipal taxes and private schools still cost big money.

School taxes typically are a part of your property tax. Our Texas property taxes easily would pay for tuition at any gov't school and many second/third tier private schools here. Folks could argue either way which is better though. I'd lean towards education in my Eanes school district in Texas being superior to the more expensive ISB / RIS etc. private schooling here, although part of the reason is that I think the intangibles like a developed athletic program and lots of extracurricular activities, AND access to Austin's libraries, UT, etc. make it better. It's certainly not free though, especially for folks who don't own their properties outright... it's like their home loan is also a school loan which would also go against anyone who thinks it's free... it's worse, you might also be paying interest!

OK, specific example, why for some people it would be more expensive here. Not saying everyone. Just that these can easily swing the numbers.

Cost of schools I went to in UK = comparable to many international schools here in terms of quality, as state owned: zero

Cost of international school for 2 kids in Thailand = best part of THB 1mio p.a. (or say THB 80k per month). That doesn't include the top end international schools which would be an unfair comparison.

Note: Thai state owned school will not give the same quality as where I come from... and definitely not like for like. You could possibly argue Bi-Lingual school comes close.

UK Council tax national average = GBP 1,200-ish p.a = THB 66k = THB5k per month. Although I would argue this is irrelevant as it covers much more than school, and also covers waste disposal and all other council services, roads etc etc

Edited November 9, 2009 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

... Anyone who says that a western country is cheaper to live in then Thailand is doing something wrong.

Education: Good education is available free in the west. Here to get a something of a similar quality and that would say be recognised by an oversees university at a later date is expensive. Highly relevant to OP.

Cars - much more expensive to buy here compared to the west. Particularly "luxury" brands

Both these can easily swing the numbers.

Educations are paid for by municipal taxes and private schools still cost big money.

Yes but because of the climate and infrastructure in Thailand, you don't need to own a car, if you insist on owning the latest Toyota SUV then it will cost you more in Thailand.

Cars cost more upfront but less to maintain in the long run, even at the dealership. A whole lot less if you go with aftermarket parts and private garages where labor units are typically a third or a fourth stateside.

Car example:

Cost of 320i Coupe in UK: GBP 26k - GBP28k = THB 1.4mio to THB1.6mio. And UK is expensive in Europe for cars!

Cost of 320i Coupe in Thailand: THB 3.7mio.

That's one hel_l of a lot of services at private garages to make up the difference.

Arguably a less convincing example, I'd agree, given unlike education it isn't a necessity, and the car is a "luxury" item. The alternatve is to downgrade from a BMW to Honda or Toyota. Even then an ordinary Honda Accord in Thailand will be about the same or more than a normal 3-series (318ES GBP21k) and much less fun to drive.

[Heng]

OK, specific example, why for some people it would be more expensive here. Not saying everyone. Just that these can easily swing the numbers.

Yeah, like anything else, the numbers can swing in any number of directions. It's safe to assume that logical and practical folks won't choose the worst case scenarios (for example: driving a pair of matching V8 Landcruisers and going to ISB here vs. living in the ghetto, having your kids bused out of the projects and riding the bus back home) for their lives just to make it as relatively expensive as possible.

Cost of schools I went to in UK = comparable to many international schools here in terms of quality, as state owned: zero

UK Council tax national average = GBP 1,200-ish p.a = THB 66k = THB5k per month. Although I would argue this is irrelevant as it covers much more than school, and also covers waste disposal and all other council services, roads etc etc

So do they cost zero or are they funded (at least partially) through property taxes and hence NOT zero?

[Heng]

Cars cost more upfront but less to maintain in the long run, even at the dealership. A whole lot less if you go with aftermarket parts and private garages where labor units are typically a third or a fourth stateside.

Car example:

Cost of 320i Coupe in UK: GBP 26k - GBP28k = THB 1.4mio to THB1.6mio. And UK is expensive in Europe for cars!

Cost of 320i Coupe in Thailand: THB 3.7mio.

That's one hel_l of a lot of services at private garages to make up the difference.

Arguably a less convincing example, I'd agree, given unlike education it isn't a necessity, and the car is a "luxury" item. The alternatve is to downgrade from a BMW to Honda or Toyota. Even then an ordinary Honda Accord in Thailand will be about the same or more than a normal 3-series (318ES GBP21k) and much less fun to drive.

Like anything else, the numbers can swing any which way.

Car example:

My Toyota Granvia. 1.9 million Baht about 9 years ago.

Let's say it's comparable to our Ford Aerostar about 20 years ago (and still running), although really, it's not nearly a comfortable a ride. 415,000 Baht.

Cost of driver (service) of said vehicle here. 7,500 Baht per month. Or 900,000 Baht over 10 years.

Cost of driver in US (which we don't have). Roughly 48,000 Baht a month ($6 an hour for 10 hours a day x 25 days per month... which is roughly what we pay our gas station attendants). Or 5.76 million Baht over 10 years.

And that's before anyone is charged an hour of service, which of course will also be less here.

[Penefattore]

most Thai companies pay dividends with tax credits.

This was true 3 years ago, but now no more.

First time I asked for tax refund for my dividends, I was given not only the 10% withholding tax back, but also a further 30% as credit dividend , then taxed according to personal income rate (0% first 100,000 baht, 10% from 100,001 to 500,000). In the end , I got a 100,000 baht refund on about 300,000 baht dividends.

But the next year I was given back only the withholding tax , and credit dividend disappeared from the NVDR statements. So considering you get back only 10% and have to pay 10% on income above 150,000 baht, with a 30,000 fixed exemption , the tax refund is now de facto capped at 18,000 baht per year , and you risk to have to pay money if your dividend income exceeds 500,000 baht, as the tax rate rises to 20%.

[Penefattore]

Just wounderd IF you had 25.000000,baht why would you want a modest income . you could live in Thailand quite well for about 45 years on that. and live well.just a thought

because Thailand has no inflation and the 46k Baht per month (which in my view is a pittance even today) will have the same value in 2054 as they have today

Of course Thailand has no inflation Naam ! How you dare to doubt the official data of a negative inflation ? butter up to 75 baht from previous 33 and roasted chicken up to 110 baht from previous 55 (just to give a couple of Carrefour examples) are just hallucinations !

[Penefattore]

Based on your requirements,

- Capital growth

- Moderate income

- You want minimal time managing investments

- Living in Thailand, with family

- No other income

Then I'd recommend to be as much as 80% in Thai Equities.

that's another buying signal for me.............

Hope you put your money where your mouth is

[Penefattore]

Why be so affraid of dividends ? It doesnt matter what the actual price of the stock does because you will never sell. Companies cut jobs before they cut dividends.

Unbelievable.

This Sokal is a public danger with his absolute nonsense.

Just to give an example of how much dangerous are dividend stocks here in Thailand, I will report one of my misadventures.

Back in 2007 Jasmine Telecommunication System (ticker JTS) paid a 30 satang dividend , when price went down to 2.30 from the 3.20 IPO I bought about 200,000 shares thinking the 13% dividend yield was a safe net.

Guess what, the stock earnings tanked, dividend was first cut to 9 satang then to 0 (actually 20 satang were paid but not out of earnings) , share price tanked to 60 satang before rebounding to about 1.30 one month ago when I sold it at great loss on HM death rumours.

Truth is , there's no guarantee of stable dividends for SET stocks. Those who paid a 20% dividend one year may well file for bankruptcy next year (CEI example now springs to my mind )

[Penefattore]

i live since five years in Thailand and my wife has no problems to spend without any effort in excess of 300,000 Baht every month.

I took the liberty of amending it for you

[Penefattore]

^ Naam, it seems you are paying too much for something?

Yes, it's called marriage, something no financial advisor can save you from

[Naam]

i live since five years in Thailand and my wife has no problems to spend without any effort in excess of 300,000 Baht every month.

I took the liberty of amending it for you

what you insinuate is definitely not the case Penefattore. fact is, that my wife is more stingy than i am. and YES, we both are stingy even though our expenses seem to be outrageous for some people. i use the expression "stingy" because our expenses are far below our means.

[Naam]

Why be so affraid of dividends ? It doesnt matter what the actual price of the stock does because you will never sell. Companies cut jobs before they cut dividends.

Unbelievable. This Sokal is a public danger with his absolute nonsense.

you mean i'm not the only one who thinks that?

[Lost in LOS]

Ok so here's another option, my wife is against it, but it may well be the best solution as it will get me the income I need. There is the option to retain 25% or perhaps a slightly smaller or bigger amount of the business, the choice is mine really. It'll be a bit weird being a minority shareholder in a business that I built and set up from scratch, "My Baby".

But it is a business that has great prospects for the future and as it is tourism related and is profitable even through these turbulent times, i'm pretty sure it'll become even more profitable as this sector recovers.

So instead of trying to research Thai stocks which I know nothing about to gain dividends, why not retain a small part of my own business which I know inside out and take my income from the monthly dividends gained from the profits of something I will have some control over.

Does anyone have experiance in selling out the majority of their own company and retaining a minority stake. Would be interested in peoples views on this option.

I certainly do and my advice is don't do it. You built your business you know how it should be run and there is a fair chance the new owner will screw it up with out you having a word to say. So unless you are really confident the new owner will add a lot of value take your money and run. Ultimately 25% of something can be worth next to nothing. And you will find my guess is that there is nothing worse than ownership without control unless you have complete faith in the new owners

you say you don't know how to value a company. is that really true-?

my resturants were going strong for 5 years and I sold them 100%. They closed within 4 months since the buyers changed everything to their "better" ideas. get out fully if you get out.