Chiang Mai - Is It Safe?

[KevinHunt]

"Living closer to the edge", "hanging out with losers", "gutters of the city", "hanging around with murderers",

I don't see these as words used by Paayai.

I mentioned him hanging around with murderers and scumbags. You're right, he said

" two friends murdered in the last year, and another acquaintance in jail for murdering someone else! And another scumbag who ought to be in jail is still happily walking the streets....."

It should have been murderer, singular.

[KevinHunt]

Of course the question Chiang Mai - Is it safe? can have many answers.

An outsider with little common sense can be in danger anywhere in the world.

When I say I feel completely safe out here, it is because the way I behave does not put me at risk.

Walking about late at night in a Thai area is not a problem for most white people.

If you are white, polite and don't lose your cool in a public place then you are unlikely to ever attract unwanted danger IMHO.

If you get drunk, shout in public, grab girls, and generally behave in a boorish manner then of course you are likely to endanger yourself.

Learn a bit of self control.

Learn to recognise a Thai who is about to totally lose it.

Learn to walk away.

This will keep you safer than in almost any other country in the world.

Well said. My point entirely. The reason I started this post was because the likes of The Bangkok Knifeman, can easily give the impression that there are constant threats of physical harm here. You summed it up perfectly - if you live a regular life here I think it is much safer and pleasant than any other place. I have seen old guys staggering out of my place late at night, walking along dark streets to get home and never having any problems.They are obviously foreigners, obviously drunk, obviously wealthier than most Thais and yet they don't get bothered. Put a drunken rich foreigner in the same condition in most cities in the world and he would be in a lot more danger, I think. 

I even maintain that for a Farang to get beaten up by Thais in a bar you would generally need to be a Big arsehol_e. Regular <deleted> get away with quite a lot.

I'm well aware of the level of violence in Thai society but as a foreigner in Thailand, and that is who this post was aimed at, I think it is a very safe place to be.

[Paagai]

"Living closer to the edge", "hanging out with losers", "gutters of the city", "hanging around with murderers",

I don't see these as words used by Paayai.

I mentioned him hanging around with murderers and scumbags. You're right, he said

" two friends murdered in the last year, and another acquaintance in jail for murdering someone else! And another scumbag who ought to be in jail is still happily walking the streets....."

It should have been murderer, singular.

Just for the record, the two murder vicitms I mentioned were friends. The murderer and the scumbag are definitely not people I have ever been "hanging around with", They are just people whom I've seen out and about and are acquainted with other people I know.

Just because I pointed out a few home truths about this city, doesn't mean I'm friends with every lowlife in town, "hanging out with losers", or frequenting the "gutters of the city", please understand that.

And to those who accused me of trolling - are you claiming something I've said is untrue? If so please be specific rather than hurling insults, what statement did I make that was unture? Or do you just object to someone injecting a little reality into your fanasy version of paradise?

[Paagai]

I even maintain that for a Farang to get beaten up by Thais in a bar you would generally need to be a Big arsehol_e. Regular <deleted> get away with quite a lot.

Indeed, many times I'm sure we've all seen Farangs getting away with behaviour here that would have earned them some rough treatment from the bouncers most other places

I'm well aware of the level of violence in Thai society but as a foreigner in Thailand, and that is who this post was aimed at, I think it is a very safe place to be.

Paradoxically, the fact that Thais generally leave Farangs alone here means you can go to places that are "closer to the edge" without too many problems. I can think of several occasions in Thai bars where, fists, bottles and the furniture have all started flying around me whilst I've been completely ignored and left to enjoy my drink and watch the cabaret The scene then being followed by a shrug of the shoulders and a "mai pen rai, ao bia ik mai, krap" from the bartender

I'm sure it wouldn't be like that in the "rougher parts of Liverpool"

[caf]

"Living closer to the edge", "hanging out with losers", "gutters of the city", "hanging around with murderers",

I don't see these as words used by Paayai.

I mentioned him hanging around with murderers and scumbags. You're right, he said

" two friends murdered in the last year, and another acquaintance in jail for murdering someone else! And another scumbag who ought to be in jail is still happily walking the streets....."

It should have been murderer, singular.

Maybe you need to think more deeply about the issues rather than picking up pedantically on the odd word a poster makes.

That's the way to progress an argument. If, of course, that was the purpose of opening this thread. It can be a little safer here if one tries to acculturate.

There are some good books on the subject though real experience is invaluable too.

There are some good bookshops in Chiangmai - some are advertised here. If you are into subliminal advertising though you would be out of luck. That is not the done thing, a bit beyond the pale

[envirogirl]

I think a lot of the 'safe' perceptions expressed on this topic are because some of us are treated differently as farangs (I know I am one of them). I think a lot of Thai criminals wouldn't want to deal with the added problems that would come from harming a farang, since there is risk of ruining the face of 'amazing'/ 'smiling' Thailand.

That said, some people really get stuck in and see many more sides of Thailand as Paa gai has obviously done. For example, I have a young male farang friend -that has been living here since he was 17 (about 3 years now). He speaks great Thai and knows the Thai way very naturally. I tell you, for someone so young he has some serious stories about mafia, weapons, large scale bar fights, almost being pushed off a cliff by a rival gang, hearing the tuk tuk driver call someone and describe him and his friend to see if they were 'wanted' (obviously not knowing he could speak Thai), etc. But he very opinionated, likes to drink and has a lust for adventure and seeing everything that he possibly can so these are some of the experiences that are likely to be had along the way.

The closest I have come to not feeling safe in Chiang Mai was when I had my purse stolen out of the front basket of my bicycle (one of those goofy tourist things that I had to ride before I bought a motorbike). It was 9 pm on a dark street. I know, I know - I might have well just handed it to the guy. In my defense I was not thinking straight after a nice massage.

I don't ever really feel safe anywhere. This is partially because I was raised in a big city and was trained to believe that danger lurked around every corner. It is also because I am really naive at times, as you may have already guessed, so as a result I have inadvertently put myself in stupid situations. Because I always debate with my instinct, I can't tell which is which so I just have to not trust people or feel safe until I can be absolutely sure somehow.

And thank you to all the men who recognized that us women have a higher risk of running into 'riff raf', although I really wish that weren't true. Somehow I have survived many 5 am tuk tuk rides to my home a bit out of the center. The only real danger I felt was being ripped off or not paying attention to the change being handed over. Again, my fault.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

As a woman I have always felt safe here in CM, where I have (and alright, still do) often wandered around on my own in the wee hours. And yes, I know I am not attractive anymore, but even in my younger days when I was, frankly hot!, I always felt safe here. Obviously I wasn't going to go to Santitam on my own at 4 a.m. or go for a walk at midnight up the mountain alone, but using a modicum of common sense, I have found Chiang Mai to be one of the safest places I have ever lived.

We got robbed once, at gun point, but we had been warned that there were robbers in the area (behind wat jed jod) and promtly moved out and have been safe in Nimmanhaemin since.

So, to answer the question, yes, I think it is marvellously safe here in CM.

[Paagai]

Santitam on my own at 4 a.m. ............................behind wat jed jod...................

Ah, Sao Jiang Mai, seems to have found the explanation why some of us sometimes see CM in a different light.

[speicher]

Chiang Mai is very safe and mellow compared to its asian neighbors....cheers

[KevinHunt]

"Living closer to the edge", "hanging out with losers", "gutters of the city", "hanging around with murderers",

I don't see these as words used by Paayai.

I mentioned him hanging around with murderers and scumbags. You're right, he said

" two friends murdered in the last year, and another acquaintance in jail for murdering someone else! And another scumbag who ought to be in jail is still happily walking the streets....."

It should have been murderer, singular.

Maybe you need to think more deeply about the issues rather than picking up pedantically on the odd word a poster makes.

So let's see, you pick me up for saying that Paagai hangs around with murderers. I point out that he did indeed say that, and your response is to accuse me of being pedantic. Nice one.

Thanks for the tip about thinking more deeply. I'll give it a try.

As regards to subliminal advertising , I think that was your little gem wasn't it? According to you I was subliminally advertising The Red Lion by writing about Rats in a pub (not mine). I like you, you're funny.

Edited October 27, 2009 by KevinHunt

[orang37]

This is a first, I'm replying to a post by Orang, which must mean that I understood some of it... Anyway: ... quote from Orang's post snipped ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Brother WinnieTheKhwai,

We rejoice in the blessed event of your first-born understanding of the message behind the morphemes behind the phonemes behind the glyphs of our screed. You should immediately eat the placenta to integrate the sacred and profane as fully as possible (with your seven stomachs that should be no problem).

Agreed on those, however for #2 it may be more of a social circle thing than a geographical thing where some areas are 'safe' and others are 'dodgy'. My main thought reading Paagai's post: If you live with the riff raff then you have a good chance to die with the riff raff.

As for reasons to live among the riff raff... that's where the economic forces and desperation are most in one's favor.. never mind if it's a gay or straight scene.

Yes, good point, if we get you correctly, that it's more the combination of time, place, and who you are associating with. Many places by day are not dangerous, but late at night are. A good example : San Francisco ... say Mission street from 5th. to 7th. by day may have a few obnoxious wino stumble-bums who will try and extort money by threatening to smudge your windshield with a dirty rag (or at least they had such fifteen years ago), but at night the neighborhood is a whole different story, and the human rats come out.

Now someone who would deliberately "live with" "riff-raff" (by choice, not out of economic necessity) : that's an interesting thought; reminds me of certain stories about the founders of certain religions.

Just to add one more eddy to this turbulent agitated flow of communal taking the p*ss : today, by happenstance I came across this wonderful story on the remarkable longevity of the Mole Rat (upt to twenty-eight years of life, and they seem immune to cancer !) :

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/science/27rat.html

It always seems to I and I that Mother Nature is the greatest of all teachers, and reading about the lives of the Mole Rats does I think offer some tips on how we can be safe :

1. live underground in a tunnel system with guards posted

2. have one Queen Female, and males should be willing to be her love-slaves in her harem, or else be soldiers or farmers.

3. leave the fighting to the Females when the Queen dies, and immediately become the love slave of the new Queen Female if you are a male who previously was a love-slave in the harem of the lately deceased Queen (unless you are willing to change careers and become a soldier or farmer).

best, ~o:37;

Edited October 27, 2009 by orang37

[IanForbes]

Just to add one more eddy to this turbulent agitated flow of communal taking the p*ss : today, by happenstance I came across this wonderful story on the remarkable longevity of the Mole Rat (upt to twenty-eight years of life, and they seem immune to cancer !) :

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/science/27rat.html

It always seems to I and I that Mother Nature is the greatest of all teachers, and reading about the lives of the Mole Rats does I think offer some tips on how we can be safe :

1. live underground in a tunnel system with guards posted

2. have one Queen Female, and males should be willing to be her love-slaves in her harem, or else be soldiers or farmers.

3. leave the fighting to the Females when the Queen dies, and immediately become the love slave of the new Queen Female if you are a male who previously was a love-slave in the harem of the lately deceased Queen (unless you are willing to change careers and become a soldier or farmer).

best, ~o:37;

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Just because I pointed out a few home truths about this city, doesn't mean I'm friends with every lowlife in town,

I think you pointed out a few home truths about your lifestyle and/or social environment, not about Chiang Mai per se. Might as well be any other place in Thailand or SE Asia.

[xenophanes]

As fascinating as it is to hear that it's raining in Hang Dong, or to find out how much we should be paying for onions, and since the 'Tourist Numbers Drop By Almost One Million' post has ended up as a debate about the murder rates of Thailand, I thought it might be slightly more interesting to hear how safe people feel visiting, or living in, Chiang Mai.

If we can forget about the inherrent dangers of stubbing your toe on an uneven footpath, death from falling coconuts or the obvious dangers of driving in Chiang Mai and instead concentrate on the general question of personal safety or threat of violence, then personally, I would have to say that I feel very safe here. A critic (such people do exist) once suggested that I was burying my head in the sand over a similar debate and even pushed the point further by attaching a picture of an ostrich!!! Hopefully, he has, since then, been savaged by rabid soi dogs (a topic of debate in itself, but some other time, maybe).

So, what do you think? Should I continue to wander about with a care-free attitude, a song in my head and a spring in my step, or should I be looking over my shoulder and avoiding the shadows?

PS - If we could hold back on the graphs and statistics, that would be nice. And if you're looking for 'subliminal advertising' - there ain't none.

PPS - If you're new here .... you might want to take the comments from the Knife-man of Bangkok and the guy who thinks he's a primate, with a little pinch of salt.

Totally safe Mr Hunt but maybe better with a song in your step and spring in your head?

[wolf5370]

Is CM safe? Went to Spicey's once - scared the living krap out of me, didn't feel safe there - Physically assorted in the loo - by three Thai men that proceeded too squeeze my thighs, calves and shoulders and twist my head why I nervously peed on the guy standing at the next urinal! - then they wanted paying for it! ...and the dance floor is like swimming through feathers coated in golden syrup.

Been robbed a few times in a few bars here too - 120 Baht for a small Leo!

Outside of that, I have walked about at 4am - bumped into people (spilling drinks even) in Bubbles etc - eyed up the taken girl in full view of the taker - and so many other things that would have landed me in hot water in the UK (and has) - and yet at worst its a hard look - mostly a smile and and accepted apology. Rose tinted specs, possibly - but in London they'd either have been nicked or broken by some turd taking a swing at me for rudely being in the same street as him at closing time!

[Paagai]

Just because I pointed out a few home truths about this city, doesn't mean I'm friends with every lowlife in town,

I think you pointed out a few home truths about your lifestyle and/or social environment, not about Chiang Mai per se. Might as well be any other place in Thailand or SE Asia.

As I don't believe you know me, or anything about me, I don't see how you are in anyway qualified to make assumptions about my lifestyle and/or social environment, right? (though I guess it is true that I'm never home early enough on a Sunday morning to make it to Church )

I disagree CM is like other places. It has factors influencing the social behavior of people here that are not prevalent elsewhere. Notably, the large population of disenfranchised and sateless people in Northern Thailand, which has migrated towards Chiang Mai for economic reasons. As elsewhere in the world where there's an underclass with restricted rights and opportunities this presents a significant driver in violence and illegal activities.

[marsteele]

I think Chiangmai is very safe. I have never encountered any problems in 3 years. As long as I keep the knives and cleavers locked away and do exactly as the thai wife says I have nothing to fear.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

"Living closer to the edge", "hanging out with losers", "gutters of the city", "hanging around with murderers",

I don't see these as words used by Paayai.

I mentioned him hanging around with murderers and scumbags. You're right, he said

" two friends murdered in the last year, and another acquaintance in jail for murdering someone else! And another scumbag who ought to be in jail is still happily walking the streets....."

It should have been murderer, singular.

Maybe you need to think more deeply about the issues rather than picking up pedantically on the odd word a poster makes.

So let's see, you pick me up for saying that Paagai hangs around with murderers. I point out that he did indeed say that, and your response is to accuse me of being pedantic. Nice one.

Thanks for the tip about thinking more deeply. I'll give it a try.

As regards to subliminal advertising , I think that was your little gem wasn't it? According to you I was subliminally advertising The Red Lion by writing about Rats in a pub (not mine). I like you, you're funny.

That did it Squire. Yet another sneak reference to your shophouse cum grog shop. Warning after warning. Are you really that stupid ? BANNED

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think Chiangmai is very safe. I have never encountered any problems in 3 years. As long as I keep the knives and cleavers locked away and do exactly as the thai wife says I have nothing to fear.

[JuniorExPat]

So let's see, you pick me up for saying that Paagai hangs around with murderers. I point out that he did indeed say that, and your response is to accuse me of being pedantic. Nice one.

Thanks for the tip about thinking more deeply. I'll give it a try.

As regards to subliminal advertising , I think that was your little gem wasn't it? According to you I was subliminally advertising The Red Lion by writing about Rats in a pub (not mine). I like you, you're funny.

That did it Squire. Yet another sneak reference to your shophouse cum grog shop. Warning after warning. Are you really that stupid ? BANNED

More of a Chiang Mai institution than a "shophouse cum grog shop"; seems a shame to lose one of the more entertaining members of the forum but "if life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking "Do you want fries with that?""

JxP

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So let's see, you pick me up for saying that Paagai hangs around with murderers. I point out that he did indeed say that, and your response is to accuse me of being pedantic. Nice one.

Thanks for the tip about thinking more deeply. I'll give it a try.

As regards to subliminal advertising , I think that was your little gem wasn't it? According to you I was subliminally advertising The Red Lion by writing about Rats in a pub (not mine). I like you, you're funny.

That did it Squire. Yet another sneak reference to your shophouse cum grog shop. Warning after warning. Are you really that stupid ? BANNED

Oh come on.. Everyone knows the place, everyone knows who he is. Honestly, if that's advertising.. He's lived in Chiang Mai forever, and that place has been in business forever. He's contributing a LOT of good stuff. Others with too much time on their hands were basically trying to bait him into getting banned, I think that's unfortunate.

Meanwhile, people mention places like Mike's, Miguel and Duke 24/7 and nobody seems to mind?

Please, can you reconsider?

Edited October 29, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[piercefilmlid]

Oh come on.. Everyone knows the place, everyone knows who he is. Honestly, if that's advertising.. He's lived in Chiang Mai forever, and that place has been in business forever. He's contributing a LOT of good stuff. Others with too much time on their hands were basically trying to bait him into getting banned, I think that's unfortunate.

Meanwhile, people mention places like Mike's, Miguel and Duke 24/7 and nobody seems to mind?

Please, can you reconsider?

I agree with WinnieTK

Rgds

[Ulysses G.]

I am afraid that anyone who agrees with Winnie about bringing Kevin back might be accused of violating the rule against questioning moderation and possibly get a warning or suspension.

I intend to send a PM to George, dr_Pat_pong, sbk and bazmlb explaining my feelings and asking that he be allowed to return. Perhaps, others who agree might do the same rather than risk punishment for posting here. That is what we are meant to do.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Thakkar]

I think we've all got Kevin's number. Like a naughty schoolboy, he clearly relishes every opportunity to 'try it on'. When no opportunity presents itself, he creates his own. It's kind of adorable in a way, and completely harmless. In my view, he's not getting free advertising; he's clearly working hard for it and gets points for creativity. My guess is that it's more a game to him than any serious attempt to drum up business. Perhaps he's responding to a playground challenge.

In any case, my two cents: Bring Back Kevin!

If a completely uncalled for rude message like Msg # 6 in the 'software raid' thread is allowed (and I think it should be) then it makes no sense to ban the likes of Kevin.

[iainiain101]

Would it be possible to ban Google?

I am not sure if they are a sponsor, but I keep getting Google messages across postings on here.

Not sure if it is my software, it keeps telling me I may be a software fraud victim, but I got it at Tesco when I bought the thing!

As to safe here, still yes, but I have been delayed in traffic 3 times today on the Mahidol Road bridge over the Ping by the Red shirts. They seem to have the BIB blockaded in the police station, and the BIB have been 3 deep in riot gear all day. Not been passed there this evening, though there seem to be more police in the area. Anyone know whats going on?

Iain

[orang37]

... snip ... I intend to send a PM to ... snip

1. ... snip explaining my feelings and asking that he be allowed to return. ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun UG,

I share your (and others') sentiments that banning KH is a bit over-board for the good ship TV, and intend to express same to the Mods as you suggest. KH is I and I's favorite prey-toy

best, ~o:37;

[IanForbes]

I guess if Kevin is gone and the google ads remain then I'm gone also. Not that anybody really cares. It's been nice knowing you.

[Donnyboy]

kh imo is harmless, most of us regulars know what business he owns, and i personally havent been there for many years.

He def adds flavour to the forum,even if the flavour isnt to our liking. But wouldnt it be tragic, if all we had was only vanilla on this forum, and no tutti fruity was allowed.

(sorry kh, not labelling you as tutti fruity in a bad way, just yr Brit sense of humour)

heres a song for you kh, while you got yr wings clipped

[PeaceBlondie]

To Ian and others considering leaving ThaiVisa...there's more to 'the naughty schoolboy' than meets the eye. He couldn't keep his own promise. The Google ads will go. TVisa carries on.

Back on topic.....

[orang37]

... snip ... The Google ads will go. TVisa carries on.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun PeaceBlondie,

Applause! I and I feel safer already !

I'd sure hate to see to Ian depart, though : who could possibly post as many photographs, many of them posted repeatedly ... mmm ... well, looks like DonnyBoy is coming up strong, but he's using multi-media foo.

best, ~o:37;