Why Is Thailand So Unsophisticated Musically?

[chriswatson]

I don't see how anyone could dis Bob Marley. He was really a gifted songwriter and spread so much joy in the world.

But, I do agree that "Hotel California" sucks.

Excuse me. Reggae sucks and Hotel California is a great tune - just overplayed.

But even for those who like reggae it still sucks in Thailand sucks for the same reason you give for Hotel California. The same reggae tunes are overplayed.

[chriswatson]

In my humble opinion Thailand has one of the best cuisines in the world, one of the most friendly relaxed cultures I have ever encountered, some of the most beautiful people and without a doubt some of the most sublime landscapes I have ever seen. I love Thailand deeply, thats why I live here. Whether it's the friendly locals, a beautiful sunset or a fried egg on top of my curry, I'm in love with the place but as a music lover, DJ and musician I have to say it's hel_l.

Thais only seem to like Western music if it was made in the last four years and featured heavily on MTV or Hotel California and Bob Marley, nothing else is allowed apart from Thai soft rock and cheesy Thai balads.

Why do you expect Thais to like any form of Western music at all? They aren't from the West. They're Thai. You are an alien in their culture. It's not up to them to appreciate your taste in music. If you want any form of musical recognition it's up to you to become knowledgeable about the various forms of music that are popular in Thailand most of which aren't heard in your local disco.

Whether any type of music is good or bad is entirely subjective, unless you are looking at technical abilities which is not the debate here.

One could reasonably expect Thais to like some form of Western music (and they do, it just tends to be only the mass market Western music) because they are exposed to it due to the fact their major industry is tourism and this exposes them to different cultures. It is of interest (to me at least) to ask why Thai youth do not embrace foreign music and let it influence their own. A lot of tourist destinations have a "sound" brought by mass tourism (Ibiza is an example) and Thailand has her equivalents such as the Full Moon Parties, but there are not to my knowledge any homegrown stuff coming from Phang Ngan, Samui or Phuket.

At a deeper level, white youth in the US and Europe embraced Black music (blues, jazz etc) back in the early 20th century and they still do up to this day. Western music has reached other parts of Asia and massively changed their music culture (without the need for a slave trade or invasion). Africa imports music influences back from US and Europe too. Not so for Thailand (which did not have a slave industry in the way the West did, but then nor did Japan, but it is open to black influences and despite itself - as Japan has a very introverted, conservative and insular culture similar to Thailand).

DJ's (and I am btw not one) have a role to play in most countries to introduce new musical influences, some of which inevitably get absorbed into the mainstream somewhere down the line. This does not appear to happen with Thai music, except for the odd stadium-rock influences which, I guess, may be considered radical by Thai standards.

The OP seems to want to contribute to Thai culture by introducing different musical styles into the mix, but these are apparently rejected. He can always learn more about Thai music and play that, but this holds little motivation for him. I can't blame him because I don't particularly appreciate the vast majority of it myself and indigenous Thai DJ's are presumably doing that job already.

You can go to any country and be force fed consumerist music from watching MTV etc., but in every other country I've been in, you know that there is an "underground" alternative to such stuff bubbling away somewhere. Every country except Thailand that is. Why?

Edited October 29, 2009 by chriswatson

[chriswatson]

I find it interesting that all these Worldly Music Experts fail to realise a key thing about here...we are never on the front end of the curve.

We get car models two years after they have been introduced in Europe, same with computers, movies, mobile phones and even fashion.

There are upsides to this however. Less overpriced trendy crap of little substance that is the flavour of the day makes it here ultimately.

Back to the DJ thing, for you 'happening experts - all things global' consider that you can stand out from the masses with your foresight and wax lyrically while attending all the big events in Bangkok with lines like "Well in London and Milano, the in thing is...." while smirking to yourself at how behind the times we are. A perfect recipe to stay in the limelight.

I agree that Thailand is never ahead of the curve precisely because it is conservative by nature. However, I think the rest of your post is just a cynical take on some of the posters comments here who either have a career in music and happen to have travelled the world playing it. I wouldn't call that smirking, but then I'm not immersed in, nor been conditioned by, a conservative culture. Yet.

[lioness]

Unsophisticated? well by whose standard are you judging that on. I am sure most Thais are quite happy with their music.

[chriswatson]

I borrowed a buddy's car some 6 years ago or so for a trip to Buriram to buy some silk.  As I got out of Bangkok radio range, I saw a cd in the door compartment, so I put it in.  I am not expert on Thai music, and some of it wasn't really catching my attention, but one song was bouncy with a nice melody, so I played it a number of times.

Back in Bangkok, I was in the conference room waiting for a meeting when I started half humming, half singing the song (without really knowing what the words meant). The Thais in the room started looking at me strangely, and then a few burst out laughing.  My buddy finally told me that I was singing a popular children's song!  

So I guess that showed whose taste was sophisticated and whose was a little more immature.

It is my view that the majority of popular music (Western, Thai etc) is popular due to the fact it is catchy, and this stems from how the brain is conditioned from childhood.

If you'd have picked a different CD, and not a "children's one", you may equally have found yourself humming it but without the amusement of your Thai colleagues.

They may have nodded in agreement and actually considered you very sophisticated for taking the time to listen to their music. We'll never know

[Johpa]

How can a westerner criticize pop music in Thailand when the musical tastes of the youth in the west exhibit a preference for so many musical genres that have been stuck in a dead end cul-de-sac for decades: reggae, techno, and of course the worst of the bunch to my ear, hip-hip? If you want to encounter mass musical unsophistication then take a trip to Koh Phangan and endure the musical dreariness of the full moon party scene. But then again, in the musical world one person's sophistication is another person's annoyance. Remember, art is best defined as what wealthy people are willing to pay for.

[Nostraforce]

Tai people don't want anything to complicated. Music has to be functional, it's gotta make you want to dance or sing and make you feel romantic / nostalgic or fashionable. I'm not really an expert on the field, but I guess the same goes for Tai poetry or philosophy. They're just not the type of people for it.

Little Louie Vega played on Phuket for 30 people? Seriously! First time I hear about that!

808 Is still in business though, so there is some relief for the connaisseur...

http://www.808bangkok.com/

[DP25]

Even in Bangkoks must trendy clubs like Bed

This explains so much.

In the hundreds of nights out at Thai bars I've been to I've never once heard Hotel California. In the farang girly bars you hear it all the time.

[JetsetBkk]

Unsophisticated musically? Ever watched their TV soaps - AKA "lakorns"?

[Maigo6]

Always a pleasure reading your posts.........

Cheers JR..........

Edited October 29, 2009 by Maigo6

[Keithoven]

In my humble opinion Thailand has one of the best cuisines in the world, one of the most friendly relaxed cultures I have ever encountered, some of the most beautiful people and without a doubt some of the most sublime landscapes I have ever seen. I love Thailand deeply, thats why I live here. Whether it's the friendly locals, a beautiful sunset or a fried egg on top of my curry, I'm in love with the place but as a music lover, DJ and musician I have to say it's hel_l.

Thais only seem to like Western music if it was made in the last four years and featured heavily on MTV or Hotel California and Bob Marley, nothing else is allowed apart from Thai soft rock and cheesy Thai balads.

If they hear music that doesn't fit in to that tiny narrow band of popular music they just switch off.

They don't really know how to party either, sitting down, drinking whiskey and singing cheesey karaoke yes but dancing until the wee hours of the morning to great music they have never heard before? NO

I know it sounds racist to generalize like that about a whole nationality but in Thailand it really is true and they will tell you so themselves. It's just not cool to be different or sophisticated. No rebelious music allowed just Top 10 pop pop pop all night long please. One of the things I get told most by Thais is that when it comes to music "If we don't know it we don't like it"

I always reply how do you know any music at all then? But their minds are firmly CLOSED

In addition to the Thais the majority of farangs that visit Thailand are just as closeminded. The younger ones just want Lady Gaga and Akon back to back and will evacuate a bar as soon as the music changes. The older farangs seem to want nothing more than Hotel California repeated over and over by an out of tune Fillipino band.

I never thought I would encounter Brits and Americans who grew up in the 60's who would not like to hear The Beatles and The Stones more than a badly sung cover of The Eagles but in Thailand the old farangs seem to prefer the out of tune cover of the same track than the stuff that really rocked the 60's and the 70's.

It doesn't make any sense.

I have traveled the world and always been able to find real music lovers. Whether it's South America or Germany. There is always a trendy neighbourhood with a plethora of specialist record shops and different music venues packed to the rafters with their different tribes from rockers to ravers.

Whether it's the UK, Europe, America or Brazil from as far back as the 40's there have always been counter cultures. From beatnics to Mod's and rockers, skinheads to hip hop, house music, rythm & blues, funk and soul, heavy metal etc etc

In Thailand there is almost no market for any edgy or sophisticated music it just ain't welcomed by the Thais or the fanrangs.

Why is that? Any thoughts?

[Keithoven]

In my humble opinion Thailand has one of the best cuisines in the world, one of the most friendly relaxed cultures I have ever encountered, some of the most beautiful people and without a doubt some of the most sublime landscapes I have ever seen. I love Thailand deeply, thats why I live here. Whether it's the friendly locals, a beautiful sunset or a fried egg on top of my curry, I'm in love with the place but as a music lover, DJ and musician I have to say it's hel_l.

Thais only seem to like Western music if it was made in the last four years and featured heavily on MTV or Hotel California and Bob Marley, nothing else is allowed apart from Thai soft rock and cheesy Thai balads.

If they hear music that doesn't fit in to that tiny narrow band of popular music they just switch off.

They don't really know how to party either, sitting down, drinking whiskey and singing cheesey karaoke yes but dancing until the wee hours of the morning to great music they have never heard before? NO

I know it sounds racist to generalize like that about a whole nationality but in Thailand it really is true and they will tell you so themselves. It's just not cool to be different or sophisticated. No rebelious music allowed just Top 10 pop pop pop all night long please. One of the things I get told most by Thais is that when it comes to music "If we don't know it we don't like it"

I always reply how do you know any music at all then? But their minds are firmly CLOSED

In addition to the Thais the majority of farangs that visit Thailand are just as closeminded. The younger ones just want Lady Gaga and Akon back to back and will evacuate a bar as soon as the music changes. The older farangs seem to want nothing more than Hotel California repeated over and over by an out of tune Fillipino band.

I never thought I would encounter Brits and Americans who grew up in the 60's who would not like to hear The Beatles and The Stones more than a badly sung cover of The Eagles but in Thailand the old farangs seem to prefer the out of tune cover of the same track than the stuff that really rocked the 60's and the 70's.

It doesn't make any sense.

I have traveled the world and always been able to find real music lovers. Whether it's South America or Germany. There is always a trendy neighbourhood with a plethora of specialist record shops and different music venues packed to the rafters with their different tribes from rockers to ravers.

Whether it's the UK, Europe, America or Brazil from as far back as the 40's there have always been counter cultures. From beatnics to Mod's and rockers, skinheads to hip hop, house music, rythm & blues, funk and soul, heavy metal etc etc

In Thailand there is almost no market for any edgy or sophisticated music it just ain't welcomed by the Thais or the fanrangs.

Why is that? Any thoughts?

I have to agree the Majority of Thai music is very very bad but they seem to love it. Same in Europe the music scene is dross but there is people who love it so What can you do?? On a brighter note I did get to see Larry Carlton in Bangkok so There has to be some people who are interested in different types of music.

[mca]

LazyYogi, forgive me, but from you avatar you look like one of the late Mr. R. Marley's biggest fans

Haha, actually I just found that by typing "sadhu" into google image search.

Is that the one with the cowbell?

I don't detect any cowbell, just a epic rock song....

You think it needs more cowbell?

I just wish Thai rock had a little more heart. Stuff like Big Ass, Bodyslam etc to me is just rock by numbers and the kids lap it up. I know music is to be enjoyed and my nieces and nephews in their late teens/early twenties love flexing their rock vocals at karaoke but Thai rock is a bit too "safe" IMHO. With all the injustices in LOS from all sides of the political and social spectrum there's plenty of material for a Thai version of Dead Kennedy's "Police Truck", or TSOL "Abolish Government" but you never hear that.

I lent my nephew some CDs featuring Paris and Consolidated and he was quite shocked to discover that some of the songs were about the story of the police gang raping a girl and advocated killing corrupt police officers and in one infamous track the assassination of the first President Bush.

Now I'm not suggesting Thai music should go to those extremes but I'd like to see a bit of social commentary posted through the medium of music in LOS rather than playing it safe all the time. Things like the whitewash of the Tak Bai incident or the army getting involved in politics.

But lets just say the powers that be on all sides wouldn't allow that to happen.

Edited October 29, 2009 by mca

[mrbp]

In my humble opinion Thailand has one of the best cuisines in the world, one of the most friendly relaxed cultures I have ever encountered, some of the most beautiful people and without a doubt some of the most sublime landscapes I have ever seen. I love Thailand deeply, thats why I live here. Whether it's the friendly locals, a beautiful sunset or a fried egg on top of my curry, I'm in love with the place but as a music lover, DJ and musician I have to say it's hel_l.

Thais only seem to like Western music if it was made in the last four years and featured heavily on MTV or Hotel California and Bob Marley, nothing else is allowed apart from Thai soft rock and cheesy Thai balads.

If they hear music that doesn't fit in to that tiny narrow band of popular music they just switch off.

They don't really know how to party either, sitting down, drinking whiskey and singing cheesey karaoke yes but dancing until the wee hours of the morning to great music they have never heard before? NO

I know it sounds racist to generalize like that about a whole nationality but in Thailand it really is true and they will tell you so themselves. It's just not cool to be different or sophisticated. No rebelious music allowed just Top 10 pop pop pop all night long please. One of the things I get told most by Thais is that when it comes to music "If we don't know it we don't like it"

I always reply how do you know any music at all then? But their minds are firmly CLOSED

In addition to the Thais the majority of farangs that visit Thailand are just as closeminded. The younger ones just want Lady Gaga and Akon back to back and will evacuate a bar as soon as the music changes. The older farangs seem to want nothing more than Hotel California repeated over and over by an out of tune Fillipino band.

I never thought I would encounter Brits and Americans who grew up in the 60's who would not like to hear The Beatles and The Stones more than a badly sung cover of The Eagles but in Thailand the old farangs seem to prefer the out of tune cover of the same track than the stuff that really rocked the 60's and the 70's.

It doesn't make any sense.

I have traveled the world and always been able to find real music lovers. Whether it's South America or Germany. There is always a trendy neighbourhood with a plethora of specialist record shops and different music venues packed to the rafters with their different tribes from rockers to ravers.

Whether it's the UK, Europe, America or Brazil from as far back as the 40's there have always been counter cultures. From beatnics to Mod's and rockers, skinheads to hip hop, house music, rythm & blues, funk and soul, heavy metal etc etc

In Thailand there is almost no market for any edgy or sophisticated music it just ain't welcomed by the Thais or the fanrangs.

Why is that? Any thoughts?

I have to agree the Majority of Thai music is very very bad but they seem to love it. Same in Europe the music scene is dross but there is people who love it so What can you do?? On a brighter note I did get to see Larry Carlton in Bangkok so There has to be some people who are interested in different types of music.

Music is subjective whether you think house or hip hop is <deleted> or not the difference is in Europe people who are into house and hip hop tend to be as creative as they can be within their prefered genre. They avoid the charts and search for the unique fresh sounds coming from the grass roots. They search for old classics or tunes from different genres that slot nicely into their selection and surprise the crowd. It's all about inovation.

In Thailand they wait for MTV to tell them whats cool then reject everything else.

A musically close minded culture by definition.

[dkstoney]

Just like the adage about how even the worst book can have something good to read, Thai music is the same. I don't think the OP is trying to insult or challenge anyone's taste in music, but just to point out that there is a serious lack of creative experimentation within the overall body of Thai music. My guess is that society in Thailand is manipulated through the media and the education system to adhere to a strict mental image of what is Thai and what is not, unfortunately placing the blinders on the proverbial horse. And just to prove my point, the whole country is is gaga over and singing Que Sera Sera from Doris Day. Talk about about mind-numbing propaganda to further the "mai pen rai" curse of Thai society, this is it!

Typical Thai ballad line:

Boy sees girl on bus and falls in love immediately.

Boy goes to talk to girl.

Bus stops, girl gets off, drops her hair pin.

Boy is hindered by crowded bus and can't get off.

Bus goes again as he picks up her hair pin.

Boy stares smitten out bus window.

Sees girl go into restaurant.

Comes back next day to give her hair pin.

Girl is waitress.

Girl's boyfriend is there taking her money. Slaps her.

Boy steps in to protect her.

Boy gives girl hair pin.

Girl thanks boy. Has an innocent date walking along the river.

Boy goes to restaurant next day.

Boy sees girl smiling and laughing with bad boyfriend...bouquet of flowers in her hand.

Girl gets in Benz with bad boyfriend and drives off in to the sunset.

This is such a prevalent theme in Thai music and television that it makes me sick.

[mizzi39]

Just like the adage about how even the worst book can have something good to read, Thai music is the same. I don't think the OP is trying to insult or challenge anyone's taste in music, but just to point out that there is a serious lack of creative experimentation within the overall body of Thai music. My guess is that society in Thailand is manipulated through the media and the education system to adhere to a strict mental image of what is Thai and what is not, unfortunately placing the blinders on the proverbial horse. And just to prove my point, the whole country is is gaga over and singing Que Sera Sera from Doris Day. Talk about about mind-numbing propaganda to further the "mai pen rai" curse of Thai society, this is it!

Typical Thai ballad line:

Boy sees girl on bus and falls in love immediately.

Boy goes to talk to girl.

Bus stops, girl gets off, drops her hair pin.

Boy is hindered by crowded bus and can't get off.

Bus goes again as he picks up her hair pin.

Boy stares smitten out bus window.

Sees girl go into restaurant.

Comes back next day to give her hair pin.

Girl is waitress.

Girl's boyfriend is there taking her money. Slaps her.

Boy steps in to protect her.

Boy gives girl hair pin.

Girl thanks boy. Has an innocent date walking along the river.

Boy goes to restaurant next day.

Boy sees girl smiling and laughing with bad boyfriend...bouquet of flowers in her hand.

Girl gets in Benz with bad boyfriend and drives off in to the sunset.

This is such a prevalent theme in Thai music and television that it makes me sick.

Oh so true!

And to the OP, great post!

Edited October 30, 2009 by mizzi39

[bkkjames]

In my humble opinion Thailand has one of the best cuisines in the world, one of the most friendly relaxed cultures I have ever encountered, some of the most beautiful people and without a doubt some of the most sublime landscapes I have ever seen. I love Thailand deeply, thats why I live here. Whether it's the friendly locals, a beautiful sunset or a fried egg on top of my curry, I'm in love with the place but as a music lover, DJ and musician I have to say it's hel_l.

Thais only seem to like Western music if it was made in the last four years and featured heavily on MTV or Hotel California and Bob Marley, nothing else is allowed apart from Thai soft rock and cheesy Thai balads.

If they hear music that doesn't fit in to that tiny narrow band of popular music they just switch off.

They don't really know how to party either, sitting down, drinking whiskey and singing cheesey karaoke yes but dancing until the wee hours of the morning to great music they have never heard before? NO

I know it sounds racist to generalize like that about a whole nationality but in Thailand it really is true and they will tell you so themselves. It's just not cool to be different or sophisticated. No rebelious music allowed just Top 10 pop pop pop all night long please. One of the things I get told most by Thais is that when it comes to music "If we don't know it we don't like it"

I always reply how do you know any music at all then? But their minds are firmly CLOSED

In addition to the Thais the majority of farangs that visit Thailand are just as closeminded. The younger ones just want Lady Gaga and Akon back to back and will evacuate a bar as soon as the music changes. The older farangs seem to want nothing more than Hotel California repeated over and over by an out of tune Fillipino band.

I never thought I would encounter Brits and Americans who grew up in the 60's who would not like to hear The Beatles and The Stones more than a badly sung cover of The Eagles but in Thailand the old farangs seem to prefer the out of tune cover of the same track than the stuff that really rocked the 60's and the 70's.

It doesn't make any sense.

I have traveled the world and always been able to find real music lovers. Whether it's South America or Germany. There is always a trendy neighbourhood with a plethora of specialist record shops and different music venues packed to the rafters with their different tribes from rockers to ravers.

Whether it's the UK, Europe, America or Brazil from as far back as the 40's there have always been counter cultures. From beatnics to Mod's and rockers, skinheads to hip hop, house music, rythm & blues, funk and soul, heavy metal etc etc

In Thailand there is almost no market for any edgy or sophisticated music it just ain't welcomed by the Thais or the fanrangs.

Why is that? Any thoughts?

I have to agree the Majority of Thai music is very very bad but they seem to love it. Same in Europe the music scene is dross but there is people who love it so What can you do?? On a brighter note I did get to see Larry Carlton in Bangkok so There has to be some people who are interested in different types of music.

Music is subjective whether you think house or hip hop is <deleted> or not the difference is in Europe people who are into house and hip hop tend to be as creative as they can be within their prefered genre. They avoid the charts and search for the unique fresh sounds coming from the grass roots. They search for old classics or tunes from different genres that slot nicely into their selection and surprise the crowd. It's all about inovation.

In Thailand they wait for MTV to tell them whats cool then reject everything else.

A musically close minded culture by definition.

I think after xx # of points we get your drift about the music scene here. Now, what are you prepared to do about it besides complain?

[mrbp]

I know I'm probably wasting my time on you old fogies and Thai karaoke lovers but heres some new innovative music thats tickling my ribs and wobbling my speaker stack Only the best musical goodness, COME ALIVE!!!

A Nu Soul funk Boogie gem, rocking London as we speak. Great video too (I will always be a Mod in my heart)

Reggae from New Zealand

Australian funk

The Bamboos

Electronic madness, Future boogie boogie!

Dam Funk

2000f & J Kamata

Attacca Pesante (Rusko Mix)

Joy Orbison

Alix Perez and Peven Everett

Rhthym & blues/rock

Some folk and blues

Hem

Eric Bibb He played the Phuket Blues Festival...

[mrbp]

In my humble opinion Thailand has one of the best cuisines in the world, one of the most friendly relaxed cultures I have ever encountered, some of the most beautiful people and without a doubt some of the most sublime landscapes I have ever seen. I love Thailand deeply, thats why I live here. Whether it's the friendly locals, a beautiful sunset or a fried egg on top of my curry, I'm in love with the place but as a music lover, DJ and musician I have to say it's hel_l.

Thais only seem to like Western music if it was made in the last four years and featured heavily on MTV or Hotel California and Bob Marley, nothing else is allowed apart from Thai soft rock and cheesy Thai balads.

If they hear music that doesn't fit in to that tiny narrow band of popular music they just switch off.

They don't really know how to party either, sitting down, drinking whiskey and singing cheesey karaoke yes but dancing until the wee hours of the morning to great music they have never heard before? NO

I know it sounds racist to generalize like that about a whole nationality but in Thailand it really is true and they will tell you so themselves. It's just not cool to be different or sophisticated. No rebelious music allowed just Top 10 pop pop pop all night long please. One of the things I get told most by Thais is that when it comes to music "If we don't know it we don't like it"

I always reply how do you know any music at all then? But their minds are firmly CLOSED

In addition to the Thais the majority of farangs that visit Thailand are just as closeminded. The younger ones just want Lady Gaga and Akon back to back and will evacuate a bar as soon as the music changes. The older farangs seem to want nothing more than Hotel California repeated over and over by an out of tune Fillipino band.

I never thought I would encounter Brits and Americans who grew up in the 60's who would not like to hear The Beatles and The Stones more than a badly sung cover of The Eagles but in Thailand the old farangs seem to prefer the out of tune cover of the same track than the stuff that really rocked the 60's and the 70's.

It doesn't make any sense.

I have traveled the world and always been able to find real music lovers. Whether it's South America or Germany. There is always a trendy neighbourhood with a plethora of specialist record shops and different music venues packed to the rafters with their different tribes from rockers to ravers.

Whether it's the UK, Europe, America or Brazil from as far back as the 40's there have always been counter cultures. From beatnics to Mod's and rockers, skinheads to hip hop, house music, rythm & blues, funk and soul, heavy metal etc etc

In Thailand there is almost no market for any edgy or sophisticated music it just ain't welcomed by the Thais or the fanrangs.

Why is that? Any thoughts?

I have to agree the Majority of Thai music is very very bad but they seem to love it. Same in Europe the music scene is dross but there is people who love it so What can you do?? On a brighter note I did get to see Larry Carlton in Bangkok so There has to be some people who are interested in different types of music.

Music is subjective whether you think house or hip hop is <deleted> or not the difference is in Europe people who are into house and hip hop tend to be as creative as they can be within their prefered genre. They avoid the charts and search for the unique fresh sounds coming from the grass roots. They search for old classics or tunes from different genres that slot nicely into their selection and surprise the crowd. It's all about inovation.

In Thailand they wait for MTV to tell them whats cool then reject everything else.

A musically close minded culture by definition.

I think after xx # of points we get your drift about the music scene here. Now, what are you prepared to do about it besides complain?

I'm working on it everday you armchair supporting glory hunter

[thai3]

The farang community in Thailand lacks in a lot of areas, but not in self delusion or arrogance.

I was trying to decide which post to reply to as most are factually wrong and ignorant on so many aspects of Thai music that I could not choose. I like this one though and would only add the word ignorant. The idea that Thai music, which is almost as diverse as the languages spoken here could be dismissed as unsophisticated is rather laughable, as is the assertion that Thai music has not developed or that it has not been subjected to influences from outside, including the west. Also wrong are claims about luktung being essentially issan music, or that it is love music. The roots of luktung are certainly from central Thai folk traditions such as lam tad and pleng choi, luktung did not originate is issan, although it's true issan nationalists have tried to play up the Issan input into luktung over the past few years, but their arguments are rather weak. Claims for example that Suphabburi was known as little Issan or that Surapon used lao phrases in his songs as long ago as the start of his carear in 1952 do not change the facts that the almost all of the early and important luktung singers came from central Thailand, especially the Suphanburi area, even if one or two did, like Pumpuang have lao roots they were not singing in lao bands, they would have been morlam singers if they were. Later in luktung the issan influence in song themes and the origin of the singers themselves did come to play a predominate role, but not a great deal more these days than luktung singers from other areas of the country.The themes of luktung are not solely love songs that is the character of lukrung numbers. luktung songs traditionally are far more diverse and as well as the stereotypical migrant songs, include comic songs and even a few political ones. Mostly though luktung has been an outlet for the hard realities of life, rather like the blues but today the term luktung has become somewhat more meaningless than it has been. Companies like Grammy and R Siam promote rock and phua che wit acts under the luktung banner for marketing reasons, so the character of luktung becomes increasingly diverse and is changing all the time. Compare luktung from the 60's or 70's with some of what is on offer today and anyone can see how it has developed, the influence of western music on it, it is certainly far more 'sophisticated' than when the term luktung was first used in 1964. That's only one style of music out of dozens here of course, Thailand has one of the most interesting, lively and most evolving music in SEA, why people cannot see what is right in front of them I will never understand.

[clausewitz]

I'm neutral.

Can someone post links to Thai music, on YouTube or a similar format, that they think goes against what the OP is suggesting? Something to change his mind?

Again, I'm neutral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnKCuJiJQ-k

listen to the words- a pretty realistic and poignant story.

[bkkjames]

I'm working on it everday you armchair supporting glory hunter

Glory Hunter? I will have you know that any glory we have is because we earned it.

[oldgit]

When I was a lad we had proper bands, with instruments and proper vocalists - none of that rubbish thump, thump stuff that the youth of today listen to, and which you are suggesting is sophisticated. That music is bad, and leads to drug taking and licentiousness behaviour which is not becoming of Thai people. Now Hotel California is real music, where as DJ Rampant Rabbit and his lot is a load of senseless noise. Good on the Thais for not being corrupted by the social ills of modern western music, it's lead to the break down of the moral fabric in many a country, I tell ye.

Now where can I find my Eagles CD?

You sound like my old man when I was young,Toady

[thaihome]

... And just to prove my point, the whole country is is gaga over and singing Que Sera Sera from Doris Day. Talk about about mind-numbing propaganda to further the "mai pen rai" curse of Thai society, this is it!

If you don’t think the video of the group of handicap children singing Que Sera Sera to their parents is one of the most powerful and poignant things you have ever seen then you are an unfeeling, narcissistic asshol_e that probably has not had a thought for anyone else is his entire life.

Guess you probably don't like American C&W music much either?

The cultural bias in this thread is shocking.

TH

[mrbp]

Glory Hunter? I will have you know that any glory we have is because we earned it.

So you're from Manchester a fantastic place musically from The Hacienda to Mr Scruff. Thats one funky town. Shame about Manure though

Yes they are a great team but so many times you have won silverware because the ref has given a biased decision in your favour just at the right moment and now theres so much money at Manure that it's difficult for anyone to compete..

Anyway are you really from Manchestor or are you from Reading residing in Bkk never having owned a season ticket? That would make you like most Manure supporters.

I have respect for proper support who have gone regularly to games or are supporting their local team but most Mancs are niether. Nothing worse than a gloating Manc who doesn't go to games and isn't from Manchester but likes to give it charlie big spuds about how great the mancs are

Edited October 30, 2009 by mrbp

[thai3]

I'm neutral.

Can someone post links to Thai music, on YouTube or a similar format, that they think goes against what the OP is suggesting? Something to change his mind?

Again, I'm neutral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnKCuJiJQ-k

listen to the words- a pretty realistic and poignant story.

Just do not have the time to do this but Pai is not a bad example of modern luktung and enormously popular now. In this vid can be seen former seamstress and bus conductor Takkadan cholada herself the new Grammy number one female artist and recipient of Grammy's fabulously talented song writers and brilliant (some) MV makers. I think Pai is somewhat overrated and is also a good example of the pretty faces policy that has been around in luktung in recent years-he is just not a very good singer when you compare to some of the older ones. The pretty faces only did not put off takkadan though who had surgery so she could pass into Grammies hall of fame-nobody would sign her before despite winning several major contests. The wealth of singing talent in Thailand never ceases to amaze me, it's a very competitive business.

[bkkjames]

Am I the only one that is thankful that my UTD diversion has finally stopped him from complaining about the music scene here?

[Maigo6]

The cultural bias in this thread is shocking.

TH

On this forum, the racial bigotry and downright anti Thai propoganda never ceases.

If , like me, you go against the general trend you're classed as a Thai apologist, if you're happy in Thailand there must be something wrong with you.

ThaiHome, you can possibly see this, but I'm afraid we're in a minority my friend, the majority seem so incredibly unhappy bitter and twisted, our opinions fall by the wayside.

If ThaiVisa is read worldwide, no wonder tourism is down.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

Am I the only one that is thankful that my UTD diversion has finally stopped him from complaining about the music scene here?

Never fear James, new anti Thai threads will emerge very soon.

They always do.

Man Utd...yep, a team many people love to hate, that's the price of success I guess.

I'm a CAFC supporter myself, league One now, still remember the 3 - 3 draw at the Valley against Man U.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Maigo6

[elwood]

I'm neutral.

Can someone post links to Thai music, on YouTube or a similar format, that they think goes against what the OP is suggesting? Something to change his mind?

Again, I'm neutral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnKCuJiJQ-k

listen to the words- a pretty realistic and poignant story.

Just do not have the time to do this but Pai is not a bad example of modern luktung and enormously popular now. In this vid can be seen former seamstress and bus conductor Takkadan cholada herself the new Grammy number one female artist and recipient of Grammy's fabulously talented song writers and brilliant (some) MV makers. I think Pai is somewhat overrated and is also a good example of the pretty faces policy that has been around in luktung in recent years-he is just not a very good singer when you compare to some of the older ones. The pretty faces only did not put off takkadan though who had surgery so she could pass into Grammies hall of fame-nobody would sign her before despite winning several major contests. The wealth of singing talent in Thailand never ceases to amaze me, it's a very competitive business.

Thanks Thai3 for this and your previous letter. It makes up for some of the other dross, claiming that if it isn't from the west, don't bother!

I am so old that I grew up with the music of Sinatra, Ella and the swing bands, then to Blues, Jazz, Aretha and Soul. But I don't try to tell people that my taste is the only taste that counts.

Since moving to Thailand I have come to appreciate luktung and its various forms (sorry, but I like Pai!), especially artists such as Tai, Takkatan and Pi Sa Doet. But for those who say that Thai music hasn't progressed, have a listen to earlier luktung, then compare to some of the newer stuff - you can hear some pretty hot guitar work on many of the newer releases!

And I would rather listen to Sek Loso than many of the leading western groups - but of course it's all a matter of personal opinion, isn't it?