Bangkok Bank

[jfchandler]

Ian, in principal, your general comments are apt. However in reality, as you allude to, lots of financial companies have used the Patriot Act to take negative actions against American ex-pats... legal niceties not withstanding. People have to live in the world as it is, not the way it's supposed to be...

And while BofA may be a "reputable" bank, any American who uses their banking card in Thailand or most other foreign countries (with a few exceptions where BofA has alliance banks in a small group of other countries). or expects them to provide any consumer banking services in Thailand, is going to be a lot poorer and sorely disappointed.

BofA: $5 fee per transaction for out of country ATM transactions and 3% foreign currency charge. And likewise, 3% foreign currency charge on their credit card transactions... I'd hardly put them on my list of recommended banks for ex-pats. Is that your idea of a smart ex-pat banking arrangement? I wouldn't call BofA abroad "fine."

Reputable companies like SCHWAB, BofA, Wells and even Sallie Mae bank will provide you with accounts while overseas no problem. I have been offshore for a very long time and they have all been fine, except for some limitations on certain investments (certain vehicles not available offshore) and certain functions like Bill Payment.

Edited September 10, 2010 by jfchandler

[ianguygil]

Ian, in principal, your general comments are apt. However in reality, as you allude to, lots of financial companies have used the Patriot Act to take negative actions against American ex-pats... legal niceties not withstanding. People have to live in the world as it is, not the way it's supposed to be...

And while BofA may be a "reputable" bank, any American who uses their banking card in Thailand or most other foreign countries (with a few exceptions where BofA has alliance banks in a small group of other countries). or expects them to provide any consumer banking services in Thailand, is going to be a lot poorer and sorely disappointed.

BofA: $5 fee per transaction for out of country ATM transactions and 3% foreign currency charge. And likewise, 3% foreign currency charge on their credit card transactions... I'd hardly put them on my list of recommended banks for ex-pats. Is that your idea of a smart ex-pat banking arrangement? I wouldn't call BofA abroad "fine."

Reputable companies like SCHWAB, BofA, Wells and even Sallie Mae bank will provide you with accounts while overseas no problem. I have been offshore for a very long time and they have all been fine, except for some limitations on certain investments (certain vehicles not available offshore) and certain functions like Bill Payment.

What i said is that BofA will provide an account no problem. I did not focus at all on the charges, although in a prior post I did mention that I do not rate them highly for service as I do with SCHWAB. I think you and I just have totally different priorities, with yours being almost solely focused on cost. That is not my priority, I agree. But if somebody needs a US account, and can not qualify for SCHWAB for some reason, they can always go to BofA. They will get charged up the ying yang, but they will get the account.

Enjoy your low cost lifestyle......:jap:

[jfchandler]

You didn't think BofA's especially high fee structure for ex-pats, and total lack of service in Thailand despite having an actual office here, had any bearing in your recommending them???

Ian, you hand out international banking advice like a typical bank executive -- without any regard for the financial well-being of the customer...

If an ex-pat can't quality for a Schwab account, there are probably about 100 other banks that would give them a better deal that BofA....

Everyone's free to post here. But readers really would be better served if you stuck to discussing Bangkok Bank's services.., and left the rest to those who know what they're talking about...

Edited September 10, 2010 by jfchandler

[ianguygil]

You didn't think BofA's especially high fee structure for ex-pats, and total lack of service in Thailand despite having an actual office here, had any bearing in your recommending them???

Ian, you hand out international banking advice like a typical bank executive -- without any regard for the financial well-being of the customer...

If an ex-pat can't quality for a Schwab account, there are probably about 100 other banks that would give them a better deal that BofA....

Everyone's free to post here. But readers really would be better served if you stuck to discussing Bangkok Bank's services.., and left the rest to those who know what they're talking about...

Well, as you are a clearly embittered individual who takes out his frustrations on the net and feels they can judge people they do not know, it is really pointless to even try to debate with you. Making blanket statments about people who work in banking is just as ridiculous as classifying every ex military person as a some kind of homicidal maniac (which many do). Intolerance and ignorance seem to be something you know a great deal about.

[jfchandler]

As long as you keep handing out bad banking advice, I'm going to keep providing the facts that correct you....

No bitterness at all.... Just disappointment at someone who seems to have so little regard for other people's money.

And, I do think it's fair to say, the banking industry isn't particularly renowned for it's commitment to consumer interest or consumer protections...

You're the one making it personal....

Edited September 10, 2010 by jfchandler

[ianguygil]

As long as you keep handing out bad banking advice, I'm going to keep providing the facts that correct you....

No bitterness at all.... Just disappointment at someone who seems to have so little regard for other people's money.

And, I do think it's fair to say, the banking industry isn't particularly renowned for it's commitment to consumer interest or consumer protections...

You're the one making it personal....

John

I though reporters were supposed to be objective and impartial?

Seems that's why you don't do that any more........

[jfchandler]

John

I though reporters were supposed to be objective and impartial?

Seems that's why you don't do that any more........

Still want to get personal, huh? My long and accomplished reporting career was quite fine, and ended on my terms...followed by a 11 year stint in government public relations... So I've seen and know both sides of the street...

To the point here, my parents raised their son to know the value of a dollar, and with the notion that a dollar saved is a dollar earned. Perhaps you're part of the ex-pat corporate exec crowd with cushy salaries who don't care or mind if they blow a few dollars here or there on trivial things like $5 ATM fees and 3% foreign currency charges...

But in case you hadn't noticed, a lot of ex-pats here in Thailand, and here on ThaiVisa, are here on retirement and pensions. And for them, it's an important thing to get the best value for their dollars, and to save where they can, so they have more to keep and save for their lives and futures.

That's always going to be the perspective I bring to the discussions of banking, regardless of my own personal financial circumstance. I want to save every dollar I can and make my money work for me in the best, most advantageous ways possible.

That's the kind of perspective and banking advice that I think will best-serve most ThaiVisa readers... You might consider it...

Edited September 10, 2010 by jfchandler

[JimGant]

A guy walks into a bank and says to the teller at the window, "I want to open a fuc_kin' checking account"

To which the lady replied, "I beg your pardon, what did you say?"

"Listen up dammit, I said I want to open a fuc_kin' checking account right now."

"Sir, I'm sorry but we do not tolerate that kind of language in this bank!"

The teller left the window and went over to the bank manager and told him about her situation. They both returned and the manager asked, "What seems to be the problem here?"

"There's no dam_n problem," the man said, "I just won 50 million in the lottery and I want to open a fuc_kin' checking account in this dam_n bank!"

"I see sir," the manager said, "and this bitch is giving you a hard time?"

[jfchandler]

Just what we needed Jim...

A bit of comic relief...at the expense of the banking industry... :lol:

I'm chuckling big time!!!

Edited September 10, 2010 by jfchandler

[JimGant]

A car was involved in an accident in a street. As expected a large crowd gathered. A newspaper reporter, anxious to get his story could not get near the car.

Being a clever sort, he started shouting loudly, "Let me through! Let me through! I am the son of the victim."

The crowd made way for him.

Lying in front of the car was a donkey.

[jazzbo]

... just to stick my head slightly above the trench line, I would point out that services from SCHWAB discussed here such as ATM and transfers, etc. are not available if you have an IRA account; which is what I have as a pension roll-over account.

[pkrv]

This for me has been a great thread as we explore the strategies in play. And of course the wind ups between the tea drinkers (brits) and the colonials (yanks)

Hi - jfchandler - One thing I sort of didn't get is that you say yes you do have a rental bill, I am guessing it is non trivial.

You obviously have to get this to Thailand and I am guessing you must have some sort of Thai banking presence. Surely you are already absorbing the costs of transferring for rental, just as I do for condo maintenance electricity etc.

Why don't you just add your cash needs to the rent transfer? It does look like the US guys get a much better deal than we tea drinkers do.

I did look at https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/ It simply has passed its expiry date for my needs, but thanks.

Well although I know my UK use of BBL incurs 20 GBP and 500 THB plus a 7 working day (with all the FX implications) end to end transit v.s SWIFTS 20 GBP fee (via Nationwide) 500 THB fee and pretty much next day delivery - There is some mileage in my actions, mostly convenience, but I suspect many will not see this.

I am guessing as a retail bank BBL will want volume via their UK operation but they may still be gearing up and essentially using people like myself to test drive. There is no risk in this but certainly use of BBL London will not appeal to many people, IMO its needs more incentivising.

Edited September 10, 2010 by pkrv

[jfchandler]

Touche!!! I have no problem laughing at myself or my former profession...

And indeed, the way the world of journalism is these days, it often deserves laughter..or tears...

I was going to ask, "What the difference between big bankers and the ladies on Soi Cowboy???"

Answer: "The bankers want your money first, and then they XXXX you...whereas the ladies at least XXXX you first and then take your money."

A car was involved in an accident in a street. As expected a large crowd gathered. A newspaper reporter, anxious to get his story could not get near the car.

Being a clever sort, he started shouting loudly, "Let me through! Let me through! I am the son of the victim."

The crowd made way for him.

Lying in front of the car was a donkey.

[jfchandler]

Jazzbo, I have a couple different kinds of accounts with Schwab... So let me ask...

If the ATM card and refund features aren't part of their IRA, there's nothing that would prevent you from also signing up for their High Yield Checking or Savings accounts to add those features to your repertoire, right???

Both accounts are free, no minimum, no monthly fees. I would expect, as an IRA customer, they'd be happy to add them for you...

If there's something I'm missing on that point, let me know... I was giving some thought to transferring an existing IRA rollover to Schwab...

... just to stick my head slightly above the trench line, I would point out that services from SCHWAB discussed here such as ATM and transfers, etc. are not available if you have an IRA account; which is what I have as a pension roll-over account.

[jfchandler]

Hello PKRV... Top of the day to you... Pip pip, cheerio...and all that...

I did address your question about how I handle things previously, in that yes, I have multiple local bank accounts, which I mostly use to pay local monthly utility and service bills.

I handle my monthly rent needs through a single ATM pull at the start of each month, and then do another mid-month pull in a period that seems to roughly correspond to when most of my bills come due. As I mentioned previously, taking the cash out of an AEON ATM, walking down the aisle at the mall, and depositing same funds into the appropriate Thai account. About a 5 minute exercise in all.

With any one of several no fee ATM cards, no foreign currency fees, no bank fees, no diminished exchange rate, no delay in accessing my funds once deposited unlike international xfers... And I usually find a way to do some necessary shopping on the same trips, so it's not like I'm going out of my way for nothing...

If my monthly individual expenses were larger, I'd probably adjust accordingly.

When I'm back in the U.S., I'll usually stop by my local home bank ATM a couple times a week when coming or going... no fee of course, there also. So I don't find my approach here too much different.

This for me has been a great thread as we explore the strategies in play. And of course the wind ups between the tea drinkers (brits) and the colonials (yanks)

Edited September 10, 2010 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

PKRV, I was blissfully ignorant of British banking, until recently, courtesy of our debates and discussions here..

And while I'm certainly no cheerleader for the U.S. banking industry, after looking at the range of different choices and services the U.S. banks offer, and then getting a glimpse of the Brits offerings, it seems we American do have a wider range of choices, with more competition perhaps yielding better potential customer benefits.

That said, there are plenty of U.S. banks, especially the big ones like BofA and a few others, that are more than happy to take a more than sizeable/reasonable cut of your international funds. Corporate greed certainly is not limited to any one nationality. As always, it pays to shop and compare.

It does look like the US guys get a much better deal than we tea drinkers do.

[jfchandler]

By the way, since some folks around here used to work for BofA and like to recommend them to ex-pats who want to open/keep a U.S. bank account, I thought I'd provide the following additional detail:

If you're a BofA customer and you want to send money to the BKK Bank New York branch for onward transfer, BofA typically is going to charge you $3 or $10 per ACH transaction.... whereas, quite a few other U.S. banks and CU's offer unlimited domestic ACH transfers for FREE....

Let's see.... $3/$10 or free.... $3/$10 or free... I think I'll take FREE, thank you very much!

[pkrv]

What you may not realise Mr jfchandler is that the brits live in perpertual fog and as such are honoury members of the Wheretherfuc_karewe tribe. These tribe people are at best 3 feet talll and live in grasslands with 5 foot high grass. I'm not sure if we befriended them or just threatened to slaughter them via gun boat diplomacy to achive such recognition - though it was probably the latter.

If I could route via BBL NY I would grab at the chance - To the best of my knowlege that is not an option open to a UK account holder.

We all put our balls on the line here - You have identifed yourself as a (I believe) primarily US cash pont ATM oriented individual in Thailand. Hence your angle.

Yes I was UK cash point orientated in Thailand, but yes as you can see to the best of my knowledge we fog bound people are actually stuffed.

You did ask me if I was considering the transition to Thailand - the answer is yes - but my god the world is an ever changing dynamic.

Edited September 10, 2010 by pkrv

[ianguygil]

This for me has been a great thread as we explore the strategies in play. And of course the wind ups between the tea drinkers (brits) and the colonials (yanks)

Hi - jfchandler - One thing I sort of didn't get is that you say yes you do have a rental bill, I am guessing it is non trivial.

You obviously have to get this to Thailand and I am guessing you must have some sort of Thai banking presence. Surely you are already absorbing the costs of transferring for rental, just as I do for condo maintenance electricity etc.

Why don't you just add your cash needs to the rent transfer? It does look like the US guys get a much better deal than we tea drinkers do.

I did look at https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/ It simply has passed its expiry date for my needs, but thanks.

Well although I know my UK use of BBL incurs 20 GBP and 500 THB plus a 7 working day (with all the FX implications) end to end transit v.s SWIFTS 20 GBP fee (via Nationwide) 500 THB fee and pretty much next day delivery - There is some mileage in my actions, mostly convenience, but I suspect many will not see this.

I am guessing as a retail bank BBL will want volume via their UK operation but they may still be gearing up and essentially using people like myself to test drive. There is no risk in this but certainly use of BBL London will not appeal to many people, IMO its needs more incentivising.

Philip

One thing you may want to check with your bank in the UK is if the 20 GBP charge is the total charge you will be facing with a SWIFT payment, or if this is just their side of the charge. As you know, and as I mentioned in a prior post, the default is "charges to beneficiary" with SWIFT. So if you sent 10,000 GBP, and they debit you 10,020 GBP, the intermediary banks and the beneficiary bank may also levy charges. So the amount you receive may well be lower not just due to the FX rate, but also due to charges deducted.

One of the moderators on this site who received funds from Australia posted that he had a bad FX rate with us. When I looked into it (after he contacted me via PM) it ended up that his bank in Australia, while one of our correspondents, decided to send the funds to Citibank in Thailand, who then sent the funds to us via BahtNet a day or so later. So not only were his funds delayed, but he faced a pretty hefty charge for the processing at Citi and the Bahtnet transfer.

So what is advertised may be true on the NATIONWIDE side, but it is not all of the charges that you face.

As you know, SWIFT payments rely on a web of correspondent relationships, which is banks having accounts with each other. It is not a clearing system like FEDWIRE or BACS. So each bank involved, each hop, has the right to charge something for their services. As in any service industry.

You may want to ask NATIONWIDE for a clear statement of the charges you would face if you used their direct service for SWIFT, end to end. I have, however, routed your question to our GPSD group and the product people to see if our offer is as compelling as we hope it is.

Enjoy your weekend. I just got back from meetings, then a funeral for the mother of one of my staff who died suddenly. Busy day.....

Edited September 10, 2010 by ianguygil

[jazzbo]

K. JFC -- Sure... I could open up an additional account at SCHWAB separate from the IRA but then I would have to re-do all the paper work that gets my money transferred into my existing bank account -- that would have to be done while I was in the USA and willing to chase a bunch of people around for signatures...

BTW I forget alll the details but basically if I did the pension-rollover within a certain time limit SCHWAB would provide me with an IRA account free-of-fees for as long as I maintained the account... which is now going on 20 years.

[ianguygil]

As long as you keep handing out bad banking advice, I'm going to keep providing the facts that correct you....

No bitterness at all.... Just disappointment at someone who seems to have so little regard for other people's money.

And, I do think it's fair to say, the banking industry isn't particularly renowned for it's commitment to consumer interest or consumer protections...

You're the one making it personal....

Oh, poor John, did big bad banker Ian pick on you??

You continually misquote me and take comments out of context. You insult me as one of the bad guy bankers, when actually I spend my own time trying to help with problems. And your fantasy world has some non-existent conspiracy and US anti-trust laws applying in Thailand. Great reporting skiils, rigorous research. I can tell you honed those over the years.

As I said many times, I am happy you have found a way which works for you. And it is great that you have the time to spend on this forum and taking the trip to your local ATM. I will definitely stay on this forum responding to the comments of others. But not to all posters, if you know what I mean.

Enjoy, :jap:

Edited September 11, 2010 by ianguygil

[jfchandler]

Ian, as long as you keep handing out bad banking advice, I'm going to keep providing the facts that correct you....

You may not be concerned or focused on the "costs" to customers of banking. But I am....and I'd suspect most other people are as well.

Only a banker wouldn't be concerned about the cost of using banking services.

[jfchandler]

Great advertisement below for Ian's style of ex-pat banking... Many banks, many opportunities for them to grab pieces of the customer's money.

One thing you may want to check with your bank in the UK is if the 20 GBP charge is the total charge you will be facing with a SWIFT payment, or if this is just their side of the charge. As you know, and as I mentioned in a prior post, the default is "charges to beneficiary" with SWIFT. So if you sent 10,000 GBP, and they debit you 10,020 GBP, the intermediary banks and the beneficiary bank may also levy charges. So the amount you receive may well be lower not just due to the FX rate, but also due to charges deducted.

One of the moderators on this site who received funds from Australia posted that he had a bad FX rate with us. When I looked into it (after he contacted me via PM) it ended up that his bank in Australia, while one of our correspondents, decided to send the funds to Citibank in Thailand, who then sent the funds to us via BahtNet a day or so later. So not only were his funds delayed, but he faced a pretty hefty charge for the processing at Citi and the Bahtnet transfer.

So what is advertised may be true on the NATIONWIDE side, but it is not all of the charges that you face.

As you know, SWIFT payments rely on a web of correspondent relationships, which is banks having accounts with each other. It is not a clearing system like FEDWIRE or BACS. So each bank involved, each hop, has the right to charge something for their services. As in any service industry.

You may want to ask NATIONWIDE for a clear statement of the charges you would face if you used their direct service for SWIFT, end to end. I have, however, routed your question to our GPSD group and the product people to see if our offer is as compelling as we hope it is.

[pkrv]

Hi Ian - you know you are in a difficult position, the advice you give to me - UK based - is spot on - It obviously does not translate to the other countries BBL has a correspondent bank presence in, or indeed in other peoples circumstances – however you have always openly acknowledged this.

For me it has truly been a roller coaster of a ride with transfers to Thailand. We - UK - generally actually convert to THB at the UK end for the transaction.

I used worldfirst

Better rates than BBL but you paid the UK transfer and optionally the Thai fees - this was critical as at the time as I was purchasing a condominium (and you know what you also really need to know what you are doing on property purchases in Thailand - Freehold condos in Bangkok near the BTS or MTR for Farangs!). Exact amounts were required for TAX issues and I did not have a Thai Bank account to assit at the time.

What happened next? - The onshore offshore issue. Even the esteemed dr naam, for whom I have a huge amount of respect, did not quite grasp what was happening - Its all on the pinned thread on this section of the forum

So then it came down to AMEX card, (and that is not as bad as it looks in the UK I get back 1.5% on everything I put on it) and a UK GBP final payment via Nationwide to the develpers account at SCB - not err an exact amount - but dealt with by all concerened. The implications for that transfer were on 10m THB I could have been hit for 10% tax due to the emergency.

I have stabilised with a Thai BBL bank account - And you know what, another reason for this is to establish a personal credit history in Thailand as I move to operate here - IMO CRITICAL STUFF- as I accidently now seem to have serious assets here - It was not planned, but they are now of deep significance to me.

As a show of good will for your thoughts and help I will pop up to the Hampstead branch of Nationwide and take a good look at the forms. But as I have no need to test this service - and yes the UK expression is 'Test The Market' - I can only concluded from what I see -but I am no slouch

Will get back to you - Philip

Edited September 11, 2010 by pkrv

[jazzbo]

BTW the legal amount of currency you are allowed to bring with you upon entering the Kingdom is $US 20,000 so if you make one or two trips a year back to your home country you can save a lot on all those pesky fees and just swap those big bills for baht after you arrive.

[jfchandler]

Another exchange rates comparison from Fri. Sept 10 showing BKK Bank yields less money than U.S. ATM card:

I did an ATM withdrawal on Friday with one of my U.S. ATM cards for 3,000 baht, or a bit under $100 U.S.

The Bank of Thailand weighted average IER for the day was 30.836

My Visa debit card yielded an exchange rate of 30.78

Bangkok Bank's Buying TT rate for the day was 30.70

Then as to the actual transaction:

My withdrawal debit was $97.45, plus a 1% VISA fee of 97 cents, for a total of $98.42. Including the 1% fee for a card I'll no longer be using (since it just recently began charging the 1% fee), the final exchange rate to me was 30.48. Withdrawal made from a fee-free AEON ATM.

Compare the same transaction with a BKK Bank New York transfer, assuming the ACH from a U.S. bank to BKK Bank is free:

Start with an original amount of the same $98.42. BKK Bank New York charges a $3 handling fee for that amount, bringing my proceeds down to $95.42, then sends that amount to Thailand, where it's exchanged at a rate of 30.70 for a total of 2929 baht. But then BKKB deducts its minimum 200 baht handling fee, for a net to me of 2,729 baht. Exchange rate on my original amount: 27.73.

Of course, the discrepancy would have been even wider if I was using a no-fee ATM card, as is and would be my custom. But I had a few dollars to clean out of that account, so just pulled them rather than transferring it to a non-1% account.

Likewise, because BKK Bank consistently offers a lower exchange rate (Buying TT) than what no-fee U.S. ATM cards offer, the pricing discrepancy is going to remain pretty much regardless of the amount accessed, within the limits that can be withdrawn by ATM. The BKK Bank handling fees charged in New York and Thailand only widen that gap even further.

[JimGant]

JFC, I hope everyone has conceded that a pure fee free ATM card, that either refunds the ATM owner's 150bt fee -- or is used at an Aeon ATM machine -- is as good as it's going to get. At least for obtaining walking-around-baht (not feasible, I think you would agree, for when a large sum -- like for a new car -- is needed).

Your example is interesting, mainly in that it demonstrates how expensive small withdrawals can be when fixed costs are involved. Also, that your previously fee free card now passes on the 1% foreign transaction cost. Possibly the wave of the future, if not worse.....

Plug in a new ACH number -- $3200. $3190 is shipped by BB NY, realizing 3190 x 30.70= 97933. After the .25% Thai end fee of 245 is removed, we have 97688bt in the bank. Compare this to the pure IER of 30.84, times $3200, equals 98688bt. 97688/98688 = 1% (1-99%), thus your crossover point between your now 1% fee ATM card and an ACH transfer. A higher ACH transfer would be even more beneficial, as the fixed costs become even more spread out.

So, if the fee free card is on the way out (and why wouldn't E*Trade be a trend setter....), ACH will have all the math on its side.

Plus, even if some fee free cards remain for awhile, the ATM refunding might get dicey, particularly for folks like you who like to hit the ATM machine more often, for lesser amounts -- already there's a limit on the frequency of ATM reimbursements by most. So, for those who hit often, for little (and who don't live next door to an Aeon machine), a Thai ATM card, and wire/ACH transfers in, seem to make sense if the 150bt ATM fee keeps entering the equation.

And, if you knew where the dollar was heading several months ago, large ACH transfers then would have been the real trump card. But, adding forex guessing can go both ways -- plus, to be fair, we would then have to account for opportunity cost of lost interest on amounts shipped over here. I don't think this thread can stand any more math.

[jfchandler]

Jim, all good points in theory, but for now, the worse case scenarios you paint aren't on the table. But I know you'll keep trying....

1. There are multiple available accounts that don't charge or pass along the 1% card network fee. The loss of one doesn't mean the others are going in the same direction, and there's no particular indication that's headed toward coming to pass. When one goes down, it's little trouble to switch to another in replacement.

2. I rarely rarely make use of foreign ATM refunds, because I rarely use Thai ATMs that charge the 150 baht fee. And, even the one bank that's lately ceased absorbing the 1% card network fee is still offering foreign ATM card refunds., and they're not the only one.. So for right now, there's still a pretty viable choice between avoiding ATMs that charge the 150 baht fee, and if that's not possible, getting the fee refunded. Either way, you come out ahead.

3. I don't know how often most people are buying new cars or such around these parts. So even if someone occasionally needs to splurge on an ACH/wire transfer to cover something big, my point has continued to be that most people can benefit financially from the ATM approach for their routine day to day and month to month expenses -- provided they can set up the simple but necessary elements of advantage.

I've never said one way is best for everything, or for everyone. They're all just available tools... People should pick the right tool for the job they have. My purpose is to just make people aware that there's another tool available to them that has definite advantages, and that they're not hostages to paying fees to bankers at every turn. Simple point, simple purpose.

You may understand the advantage, and I certainly do. But there are lots of TV members who don't, including one of the longest tenured members here whom I respect greatly who insisted to me that Bangkok Bank's TT rate is better than what ATM withdrawals will provide. That's clearly not true if you use the right cards, as I've clearly shown. So there's still a lot of educating to do out there.

It's certainly not in the interest of outfits like Bangkok Bank to share that understanding. They make money off the 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees when farangs use foreign cards. And they make make money off the New York and Thailand handling fees for their ACHs when farangs transfer money, not to mention the spread they take on the exchange rates involved. The last thing they want to do is lose customers and revenues by promoting any understanding that there's an alternative.

[jazzbo]

I try to be aware of the minutiae of all these fees fixed and percentage and interest charges on the various transfer options ... and these small charges over time can certainly add up.

But when a Thai sweet-heart 30 some years your junior is ready to give her all for you if you just take her to dinner or buy her a pair of shoes and you say "Sorry dear ... I am short on cash and I refuse to give that Kuhn Ian-guy his ATM extortion of 150 baht," then I guess you come from a different world than I do ...

... and 'planning ahead' and young Thai girlfriends in the same sentence is non-sequitur

[jfchandler]

Jazzbo, I'd never want to come between you and a SYT (Sweet Young Thing) wanting to give you her all...for the right price...

Therefore, a smart AND financially wise man keeps a bit of ready cash stashed away at home in reserve... just for those kind of situations, so you don't get caught with your pants down, so to speak...

You don't have to give away your money unnecessarily in order to enjoy yourself... Just plan ahead a bit...

And of course, when it comes to taking her to dinner, at the nicer places, no cash required. Just whip out your no foreign currency fee VISA or MC debit card, and you're gold...

Edited September 12, 2010 by jfchandler