Thai, Mexican, United States Beef

[kikoman]

I agree with the last poster, there is no need to continue with this thread, without having a civil disagreement , concerning this subject.

I proved my points,

Beef is Beef!

End of Story

[SpoliaOpima]

The thread is related to Thai, Mexican and U.S. beef, What an individual is willing to pay for Kobe beef is entirely up to them.

I would like to know what Thai based Mexican Restaurants are serving Kobe beef?

I will return to beef 101.

Mexican Beef,Hereford is the most represented beef ,not only in Mexico, but in all Latin America

Black Angus herd were imported to Mexico from Canada, which in turn exports feeders to the U.S.!

Charolai were imported from France to Mexico in 1936, Mexico exported the breed to the U.S. in 1950!

Limousin were imported to Mexico from France in 1936, which Mexico exported to the U.S. !

Mexico is the number one exporter of feeder cattle To the U.S., Thur ports in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

I would venture to say most Mexican restaurants in Thailand serve Thai beef, as it is the least expensive and tends to keep cost lower.

I purchased Australian beef in Pattaya, and it was tough and not tasty. I have gone to walking street and ordered an U.S. T-bone steak ,it was just as bad!

I do not eat much beef now, as I gave up on finding good tender beef!

My Experience with Thai beef has been better, with the cuts I purchase in Nakhon Sawan and the meat truck that serves my village.

My wife knowing how to cook beef to my taste.

I live in the real world what is available to me here in central Thailand, not what I dream for that is not.

That is the reason why Tex-Mex food will not be a theme of a new resturant in Thailand, the beef involved would be to costly verses , authentic Mexican food.

Beef is beef, end of story!

Well-argued,kikoman, it seems you know a great deal about beef and and know exactly how to prepare it well. No one is saying that Thai beef is the best, just that it's perfectly acceptable given the context. As I've said more than once, I've dined on Thai beef to great enjoyment, many times.

In beef cattle production, there is no one breed that can be considered the best. There are many variations in climatic conditions, production conditions, and market requirements throughout the United States and the world that breeds have to be chosen to fit the conditions and requirements for specific areas. It is believed that all modern domestic cattle evolved from a single ancestor, the Aurochs, which is now extinct. Modern beef cattle can be classified as one of two biological types, Bos indicus or Bos taurus. Each biological type has characteristics that are found in the breeds of cattle that fall under that classification, but

the breeds are not limited to these characteristics.

Source: http://imsonline.tamu.edu/Courses/Samples/...ocs/8393_ST.pdf

The cattle slaughtered for beef in most urban Thai restaurants represent a variety of breeds that have been successfully imported and bred here, from charolais to hereford, with native stock for durability. I have a friend in Loei Province - a Mexican woman, by chance - who has run a cattle ranch there for nearly 20 years. Not a full-bred brahman or native beef in sight, rather various hybrids of Angus.

However brahmans do produce good beef. The breed was established in the USA and is a principal source of US beef.

Brahman cattle, breed of beef cattle developed in the S United States in the early 1900s by combining several breeds or strains of zebu cattle of India. Brahman cattle have a very distinctive appearance with a hump over the shoulders, loose skin under the throat, and large drooping ears; they are generally light to medium gray in color. The breed has contributed to beef production through cross breeding with European cattle, e.g., Hereford and Angus. These hybrid cattle exhibit hybrid vigor, i.e., they generally exhibit growth and reproductive rates greater than either of the parental types. Several new breeds of cattle have been developed in the United States based on Brahman-European crosses, some important ones being the Beefmaster (Brahman combined with Shorthorn cattle and Hereford cattle), Brangus (Brahman combined with Angus cattle), Charbray (Brahman combined with Charolais cattle), and Santa Gertrudis (Brahman combined with Shorthorn). Brahman cattle have been extensively exported.

source: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0808699.html

One of the more successful breeds created in Thailand is Kamphaeng Saen, which is 50% Charolais, 25% Brahman, 25% Thai cattle.

JR, most Texas beef comes from Mexican cattle anyway, even if it originated in Spain (as I mentioned in my original post citing Mexico as the source for most Texas cattle) or elsewhere. Angus and Hereford breeds are the most common in Mexico nowadays, by the way. Texas was once part of Mexico fer crissake, get over it. You're over-generalizing. Your palate tells you beef A or B is better but in a blind tasting I don't think you could fool anyone.

Edited December 21, 2009 by SpoliaOpima

[JR Texas]

You gues must be smoking something

Most beef in Texas did not originate in Mexico or come from Mexico.....that is nonsense.

Even the Texas Longhorn did not originate in Mexico.........it originated in Africa, then was exported to Spain, then to another place (forgot), then to Mexico, then to Texas.

The rest of the beef cattle species that are popular in the USA came from across the pond.

Texas does import some small feeder cattle from Mexico..........they are then grain fed until fat enough for slaughter.

Other than that, you guys are dreaming or reading some strange Mexican history book.

[kikoman]

The thread is related to Thai, Mexican and U.S. beef, What an individual is willing to pay for Kobe beef is entirely up to them.

I would like to know what Thai based Mexican Restaurants are serving Kobe beef?

I will return to beef 101.

Mexican Beef,Hereford is the most represented beef ,not only in Mexico, but in all Latin America

Black Angus herd were imported to Mexico from Canada, which in turn exports feeders to the U.S.!

Charolai were imported from France to Mexico in 1936, Mexico exported the breed to the U.S. in 1950!

Limousin were imported to Mexico from France in 1936, which Mexico exported to the U.S. !

Mexico is the number one exporter of feeder cattle To the U.S., Thur ports in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

I would venture to say most Mexican restaurants in Thailand serve Thai beef, as it is the least expensive and tends to keep cost lower.

I purchased Australian beef in Pattaya, and it was tough and not tasty. I have gone to walking street and ordered an U.S. T-bone steak ,it was just as bad!

I do not eat much beef now, as I gave up on finding good tender beef!

My Experience with Thai beef has been better, with the cuts I purchase in Nakhon Sawan and the meat truck that serves my village.

My wife knowing how to cook beef to my taste.

I live in the real world what is available to me here in central Thailand, not what I dream for that is not.

That is the reason why Tex-Mex food will not be a theme of a new resturant in Thailand, the beef involved would be to costly verses , authentic Mexican food.

Beef is beef, end of story!

Well-argued,kikoman, it seems you know a great deal about beef and and know exactly how to prepare it well. No one is saying that Thai beef is the best, just that it's perfectly acceptable given the context. As I've said more than once, I've dined on Thai beef to great enjoyment, many times.

In beef cattle production, there is no one breed that can be considered the best. There are many variations in climatic conditions, production conditions, and market requirements throughout the United States and the world that breeds have to be chosen to fit the conditions and requirements for specific areas. It is believed that all modern domestic cattle evolved from a single ancestor, the Aurochs, which is now extinct. Modern beef cattle can be classified as one of two biological types, Bos indicus or Bos taurus. Each biological type has characteristics that are found in the breeds of cattle that fall under that classification, but

the breeds are not limited to these characteristics.

Source: http://imsonline.tamu.edu/Courses/Samples/...ocs/8393_ST.pdf

The cattle slaughtered for beef in most urban Thai restaurants represent a variety of breeds that have been successfully imported and bred here, from charolais to hereford, with native stock for durability. I have a friend in Loei Province - a Mexican woman, by chance - who has run a cattle ranch there for nearly 20 years. Not a full-bred brahman or native beef in sight, rather various hybrids of Angus.

However brahmans do produce good beef. The breed was established in the USA and is a principal source of US beef.

Brahman cattle, breed of beef cattle developed in the S United States in the early 1900s by combining several breeds or strains of zebu cattle of India. Brahman cattle have a very distinctive appearance with a hump over the shoulders, loose skin under the throat, and large drooping ears; they are generally light to medium gray in color. The breed has contributed to beef production through cross breeding with European cattle, e.g., Hereford and Angus. These hybrid cattle exhibit hybrid vigor, i.e., they generally exhibit growth and reproductive rates greater than either of the parental types. Several new breeds of cattle have been developed in the United States based on Brahman-European crosses, some important ones being the Beefmaster (Brahman combined with Shorthorn cattle and Hereford cattle), Brangus (Brahman combined with Angus cattle), Charbray (Brahman combined with Charolais cattle), and Santa Gertrudis (Brahman combined with Shorthorn). Brahman cattle have been extensively exported.

source: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0808699.html

One of the more successful breeds created in Thailand is Kamphaeng Saen, which is 50% Charolais, 25% Brahman, 25% Thai cattle.

JR, most Texas beef comes from Mexican cattle anyway, even if it originated in Spain (as I mentioned in my original post citing Mexico as the source for most Texas cattle) or elsewhere. Angus and Hereford breeds are the most common in Mexico nowadays, by the way. Texas was once part of Mexico fer crissake, get over it. You're over-generalizing. Your palate tells you beef A or B is better but in a blind tasting I don't think you could fool anyone.

Some people that are not very informed about breeds of cattle and numbers of cattle imported mainly to Texas feedlots from Mexico via the Santa Teresa, New Mexico -one of the 10 importation points in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. Could learn a lot from the "Sources" indicated in your post,These sources where printed in the U.S. and by many Cattleman's Associations from Texas.

Also I was surprised to learn of the (Corriente Corresponder) North American Corriente Association. A U.S. -Canadian group who main purpose is 'Preservation of the true Mexican Breed of Corriente Cattle".

If possible will you provide me with a way I may communicate, with the people that have the Kamphaeng Saen herd or where its products are available. Also I could not quite make out the price, looks like 586.00 baht is that per kilo?

Thanks again for your most informative post!

Cheers:

[bonobo]

This has been a fairly informative post for members interested in this subject.  But it has been dipping into the personal flames.  Anymore "end of story" one-upsmanships or "you must be smoking something"-type responses, and this thread will have to be closed just as threads in other parts of TV get closed when things get too personal.

Please, let's keep this civil.  I personally have learned a lot here, and I would hate for the thread to get closed just because it is getting too personal or egos are getting bruised.

[slapout]

I have also followed this thread with interest and yes agree, to have the contributors start a slinging match about best breeds etc would not be productive as the history of beef cattle, cross breeding, etc shows. That is one of the multiply reasons there is no one breed for beef cattle. The mention of bulls for beef is misleading as are cutter cows, this is the primary source of bologna, and other processed/tinned meats on the shelf. A young (yearling) butcher bull will not be the same quality meat as a steer of the same age and feed regime, nor will a heifer fed the same way. The latter will tend to more fat, less marbling by the nature of their physical make up. Different breeds exhibit different weight gain, thus the huge amount of info and tests available from the Ag Universities. Ease of birthing also enter into the big ranchers many choices as to what crossbreed they go with, if that is the decision they make. There are still a lot of pure breed cattle ranches around. Some of the best beef I have ever eaten was grass raised Montana beef. No feedlot was involved and the kill weight would be in the 900 to 1000 pound range. My observation of the quality of beef on the table is that it is affected by physical age, feed regime, sex, handling/aging of carcass, storage age/handling of finished product, cooking technique, and the attitude of the chow hound at the time of ingestion.

[kikoman]

The practice of penned up grain feeding cattle, is a process by which cattle are fattened faster and sold at market faster, this has been the backbone of the U.S. cattle industry, As the U.S. population consumes 25% of all beef world wide.

Raising grain to feed livestock world wide is seen in the cost of human hunger and poverty, in the developing countries in the world.

I prefer grass fed beef as it is the natural food for cattle, I also do not agree with the practice of feeding grain to animals ,instead of the millions of people that suffer from lack of food.

That is my preference not that I want all people to stop eating grain fed beef, that is the individual decision that each of us have to make for ourselves .

There is a movement to go back to grass/hay feeding of cattle, such as the Alderspring Ranch in Idaho that raises grass and hay fed cattle only. www.aldersping.com

I feel that importing the U.S. feedlot concept to the developing world would be a mistake as it would promote raising grain for animals instead of people!

There are cattle producers here in Thailand that already, raise grain fed stock and is available for those who prefer grain fed beef. The Manhattan Steak house in Pattaya, advertise that they serve only U.S. and Australian grain fed beef .

This morning the wife and I took some rice to be de-husked, and they do not charge for the service but keep the husks and unusable rice grain as cattle feed.

Also they not only make grain cattle feed, they use the husks to make charcoal and raise chickens to sell at the market.

The chickens are not the Thai home type but look more like a Leghorn and Rhode Island Red cross.

There are tens of thousands of these operation nation wide, if they do not use it to feed Thai cattle, they must export it to other countries.

The Thai beef eaters prefer their brand of beef , and it is a healthy alternative to grain fed feedlot beef.

Cheers:

Edited December 22, 2009 by kikoman

[SpoliaOpima]

You gues must be smoking something

Most beef in Texas did not originate in Mexico or come from Mexico.....that is nonsense.

Even the Texas Longhorn did not originate in Mexico.........it originated in Africa, then was exported to Spain, then to another place (forgot), then to Mexico, then to Texas.

The rest of the beef cattle species that are popular in the USA came from across the pond.

Texas does import some small feeder cattle from Mexico..........they are then grain fed until fat enough for slaughter.

Other than that, you guys are dreaming or reading some strange Mexican history book.

You can tell when someone has been out-argued when they resort to ad hominem and they lack sources to back their horse. The rest of us have provided ample citations, none of them from some 'strange Mexican history book,' a rather racist accusation.

[SpoliaOpima]

I have also followed this thread with interest and yes agree, to have the contributors start a slinging match about best breeds etc would not be productive as the history of beef cattle, cross breeding, etc shows. That is one of the multiply reasons there is no one breed for beef cattle. The mention of bulls for beef is misleading as are cutter cows, this is the primary source of bologna, and other processed/tinned meats on the shelf. A young (yearling) butcher bull will not be the same quality meat as a steer of the same age and feed regime, nor will a heifer fed the same way. The latter will tend to more fat, less marbling by the nature of their physical make up. Different breeds exhibit different weight gain, thus the huge amount of info and tests available from the Ag Universities. Ease of birthing also enter into the big ranchers many choices as to what crossbreed they go with, if that is the decision they make. There are still a lot of pure breed cattle ranches around. Some of the best beef I have ever eaten was grass raised Montana beef. No feedlot was involved and the kill weight would be in the 900 to 1000 pound range. My observation of the quality of beef on the table is that it is affected by physical age, feed regime, sex, handling/aging of carcass, storage age/handling of finished product, cooking technique, and the attitude of the chow hound at the time of ingestion.

Very informative, thanks.

[slapout]

You are welcome; A native type of beef in North America is the buffalo. These critters have been crossed with beef cattle and many think the meat is superior, as do those who raise pure buffalo stock. The latter is a learner meat and is not bad eating. The dairy cattle and the Thai type cattle which are butchered for the steak table, will never compete with the cross and pure breed beef cattle, due to the physical and genetic make up of the varmints (my term). A similar comparison is the Thai chicken vs the breed raised for consumption by commercial growers. Ask Kfc, Popeye, etc.

[bonobo]

You are welcome; A native type of beef in North America is the buffalo. These critters have been crossed with beef cattle and many think the meat is superior, as do those who raise pure buffalo stock. The latter is a learner meat and is not bad eating. The dairy cattle and the Thai type cattle which are butchered for the steak table, will never compete with the cross and pure breed beef cattle, due to the physical and genetic make up of the varmints (my term). A similar comparison is the Thai chicken vs the breed raised for consumption by commercial growers. Ask Kfc, Popeye, etc.

 I rather like American Bison (buffalo).  It is more difficult to cook, but it has far less fat and cholesterol and is quite tasty.

[kikoman]

Sorry my source is not working, if you would like to see that information, Type www.alderspring.com into search.

You can view my source from there.

Cheers:

[kikoman]

I as the OP request that this tread be closed, Immediately.

Thank you

Kikoman

Cheers:

[JR Texas]

Some people get tired of trying to teach dumb rocks to turn over.

It is possible to do research on the history of beef species in the USA.

It is possible to do some research on how feeding grain to cattle changes both the taste and texture of the beef.

To do that, though, you have to have an open mind about the subject and be willing to accept a truth that you might not want to accept.