Thai, Mexican, United States Beef

[kikoman]

In a post to another thread, I stated that Thai beef and Mexican beef had a lot in common, That statement has caused great debate from a poster and some derogatory comments about Thai and Mexican beef. I felt our discussion had gotten off track of the thread we were on so. I started this topic.

What Thai and Mexican beef have in common?

Both are grass fed.

Both are free range, allowed to freely graze in the field ..

Both are not aged, for local consumpcion.

Both tend to be tougher cuts than US long aging process.

My statement about an experiment,I made with Thai beef that was cooked for 17 hours in my underground pit BBQ and pictures posted on the tread.

My conclusion was that Thai beef with long slow cooking and chopped up Mexican style served in a taco, was possible with the proper preparation.

This resulted in a discussion of how US (Texas) beef differed from Mexican beef as Texas beef breeding stock was imported from England, Most Angus and Hereford.

Mexico exports one million head of cattle to the U.S. every year through 10 livestock border crossings in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona

, most of them are feeder stock that ends up in Texas feedlots as well as New Mexico and Arizona.

Source

Whence The Beef? U.S. Consumers soon will know foods orgin.

www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/259578

Choices Article- Live cattle exports from Mexico to the United States

www.choicesmagazine.org/2004-1/2004-1-05.htm

Hereford are the most common breed of cattle in all of the America's North, Central and South.

Two breeds introduced to the US, though Mexico from France Are the Charolais.

imported from France to Mexico in 1936, exported from Mexico to the US in 1950.

Aso introduce from France to Mexico And on to the King ranch in Texas was the Limousin.

Beef is beef, If one wanted beef like US beef ,one could buy a calf pen it up and feed it only grain, slaughter it and age it as American beef is aged

There is no difference in Thai beef!

[gotlost]

The problem I see with Thia beef that we buy in our upscale supper markets in Thailand is not the beef but the butchers ability to properly prepare the cuts. He take the meaning of butchering to a new level. That same level of butchering can be found in the local village. Thais in general are not great eaters of beef as Westerners are. If you thank beef from Thailand is bad try the beef from Saudi Arabia and they have the worlds largest dairy heard. If properly cooked any piece of leather can be eaten.

[jazzbo]

If you want to cry a bit:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/12...rooms-pano.html

[kikoman]

If you want to cry a bit:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/12...rooms-pano.html

See what you mean ,just wiped a tear from my eye.

[kikoman]

The problem I see with Thia beef that we buy in our upscale supper markets in Thailand is not the beef but the butchers ability to properly prepare the cuts. He take the meaning of butchering to a new level. That same level of butchering can be found in the local village. Thais in general are not great eaters of beef as Westerners are. If you thank beef from Thailand is bad try the beef from Saudi Arabia and they have the worlds largest dairy heard. If properly cooked any piece of leather can be eaten.

You are right Thais , are not great beef eater, two members of my family of 4 will not eat beef.

Thai butchers that sell to Thai customers, will remove all the bone from the meat, as they buy meat not bone, that is another similarity with Mexican butchers.who also remove all the bone if preparing meat for local consumption.

Markets need to retrain butchers in falang markets how to properly make beef cuts.

[Powerband]

The grass here and the grass abroad isn't the same species.

All these boneheads trying to start mex restaurants have all been newbie chefs without a clue how to cook....How hard can it be to pick up a cookbook.

[JR Texas]

The grass here and the grass abroad isn't the same species.

All these boneheads trying to start mex restaurants have all been newbie chefs without a clue how to cook....How hard can it be to pick up a cookbook.

Here is something that might shed light on cattle feeding practices in Mexico: http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/27996/1/04010014.pdf

My guess is that Mexican beef that is at least partially grain fed might be a good alternative to Thai beef.

Knowing how to cook is one thing; the other thing is having top quality ingredients.

[NanaFoods]

If you want to cry a bit:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/12...rooms-pano.html

See what you mean ,just wiped a tear from my eye.

The heading says:

<h2 class="multiHeadline">The Sacred Vault at Peter Luger Steak House</h2> In a 2,000-square-foot industrial walk-in cooler, famed porterhouses have been dry-aged to perfection for more than 100 years.

Wow, beef that has been aged over 100 years... sounds yummy !!

[kikoman]

The grass here and the grass abroad isn't the same species.

All these boneheads trying to start mex restaurants have all been newbie chefs without a clue how to cook....How hard can it be to pick up a cookbook.

Not everyone with a little bit of extra cash, can open/ or better said operate a Mexican restaurant ,I agreed with you that one needs to

know how to properly cook the food they attempt to market.Even if you have the best ingredients available but do not have a clue

how to cook it, you will fail.

Someone laughed at a post I wrote to find some stable Thai women and teach them how to make corn tortillas, and slow cook all your

taco meats. Only serve taquitos with hand made corn tortillas and a few sides, beans,rice all kinds of salsas, as is done in Taquitos

Lupitas, in Nogales Sonora Mexico. She always have large crowds in her place and rakes in the pesos.

You do not have to serve every type of Mexican Food but, maintain good quality staff ,Train them properly and pay them more to keep

them with you. Serve good reasonably priced food!

[sabaijai]

There is good Thai beef and there is bad Thai beef; there are cooks who know how to cook beef properly and cooks who don't. I have eaten good Thai sirloin many times, either cooked at home myself or served in restaurants. I have noticed a huge difference between beef served in Thai restaurants in Bangkok and beef served in the provinces ie I've had much better luck in Bangkok overall.

There's a little Isan resto near where I work, and the neua yang there is perfect. There's another Isan joint near where I live where the neua yang is terrible, like eating rubber. It's not all the same.

[NanaFoods]

Chok Chai beef is supposedly the best in Thailand, so I have heard.

They have their own restaurant chain as well.

Anyone know more about them?

[kikoman]

Chok Chai beef is supposedly the best in Thailand, so I have heard.

They have their own restaurant chain as well.

Anyone know more about them?

I googled ChokChai farms, They have Chokchai Farm Thailand Forum, Try that!

Quite a few post on steak quality, 25 on one thread.

[PoeDogg]

I eat at Chokchai every time I drive thru Saraburi going to Laos.

Will be going there twice next week.

By far the best steak I have found in Thailand.

Been on the tour of the farm twice.

Appears to be a first class operation.

The owner spent alot of time in the U.S.

In the steak restaurant there is a huge picture hanging at the entrance of the owner shaking hands with the late great Ronald Reagan.

FYI, if you plan on going and taking the tour of the grounds, be sure to reserve your tickets online.

Last time I took the girlfriends nephew there, only to find out that they were booked solid.

I was not aware that it was possible to reserve tickets online.

I was a bit pissed that we couldn’t take the boy in after driving all the way from Hua Hin.

Oh well, such is life…..

[kikoman]

Those were very healthy looking calves in that you tube video, I will try to make a stop at the farms if I am ever in the area.

I before the chicken scare was trying, to get my friends some Rock Cornish chickens, that grew to amazing size in a short time vs the little chicken kept by Thai families. I found that Thai farm families were more comfortable with the chicken breed they already had.

I guess that is the same with, the breed of beef they enjoy!

[bonobo]

If you want to cry a bit:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/12...rooms-pano.html

I go to Peter Lugers once or twice a year, each time I am in New York. I order the steak for two as it gives you both the strip and the filet. The German-syle fried potatoes are great, too. One odd thing is that for a mere $2.95, they will give you a bacon appetizer. And this is by far the best bacon I have ever had in my life.

The steaks are great. In the pricey beef thread, mention was made of Kobe beef. In New York, a wagyu steak can run from $125 on up, and a real Kobe from $200-300. But Peter Lugers, at around $70 for the steak for two, I believe the price is, is actually better (well, better than the wagyu, which is realy quite good as well. I have had Kobe, but not in New York, so I can't compare the two.)

Anyone getting to New York has to make the pilgrimage to Peter Lugers. You won't be disappointed.

[bonobo]

Chok Chai beef is supposedly the best in Thailand, so I have heard.

They have their own restaurant chain as well.

Anyone know more about them?

Chokchai makes a decent burger, but I am not a fan of the steaks. I do like the guy and all he has done, and his country-western singing is not bad, but the beef just doesn't add up. I have had several steaks at both his ranch and at his Bangkok restaurant, and while they are adequate, I would hardly call them good. My Thai friends, who are beef lovers, won't go back and prefer restuarants which serve imported beef.

I have not bought a Chokchai steak to cook myself (if it is even ever sold that way), but to be honest, I prefer a simple Thai-French steak to Chokchai.

[sabaijai]

Chok Chai beef is supposedly the best in Thailand, so I have heard.

They have their own restaurant chain as well.

Anyone know more about them?

Chokchai makes a decent burger, but I am not a fan of the steaks. I do like the guy and all he has done, and his country-western singing is not bad, but the beef just doesn't add up. I have had several steaks at both his ranch and at his Bangkok restaurant, and while they are adequate, I would hardly call them good. My Thai friends, who are beef lovers, won't go back and prefer restuarants which serve imported beef.

I have not bought a Chokchai steak to cook myself (if it is even ever sold that way), but to be honest, I prefer a simple Thai-French steak to Chokchai.

I wonder if the fault with Chokchai's steak lies in the cooking rather than the meat itself? Because I've had cheaper steaks in other places that taste better even though - I presume - the meat may be of lesser quality.

[kikoman]

That is a possibility!

Many people expect a certain taste and tenderness they remember in beef ,back home, thus they are dissatisfied with any beef that does not come up to those standards.

I on occasion buy frozen Thai T-bone , at Makro that are not bad, very tender in some spots ,not so tender in others. But all in all to my taste are very acceptable.

Every one has their own meaning of what they consider good, I guess I do not let it bother me because I do not spend a lot of money on the steak at a high priced restaurant, mine are home cooked.

It does make a difference!

Cheers:

[kerryk]

Most of the beef in the US is raised on grass in Florida. From there it goes to a finishing lot where it is pumped full of antibiotics to rid it of the disease gotten by being raised on the range. Florida and Thailand have the same type of climate and grass. From the finishing lot it goes to a feed lot where it is fed grain. Then it is slaughtered in a stress free environment. From there it is cryovaced in primal cuts. Sirloin comes from a top butt and the whole butt is cryovaced and aged for about 30 days. No one dry ages beef anymore. There are a few specialty places like Buckhead beef but they are too few to mention. You can put 60 days aging on beef in the plastic cryovac. More than that and it begins to stink. Dry aging loses too much moisture to be profitable. Most beef in US restaurants is Choice or Select. There are few restaurants who use Prime beef again because of cost. Prime beef refers to the amount of marbling in the meat.

No one in the US uses Aussie beef unless there is a severe price problem with US beef. Aussie beef in the US is considered only good for hamburgers, the same can be said for Canadian beef. The reason is both are grass fed and have a lack of taste and tenderness when compared to a grain fed product.

I ran a chain of prime rib restaurants and have used Canadian beef when I could not get US beef at a decent price. I found it OK because I slow cooked the beef for 12 to 18 hours. I also used more Select beef than Choice because it held up better in the slow cooking process. Slow cooking Prime beef makes it so tender it falls apart. Slow cooking at low temps produces a Medium Rare roast after 18 hours of cooking. You can’t do it at home because you need a special oven that will hold a 5 degree temp range. Most home ovens flip on and off for 10 or 20 degrees. The difference between Rare and Medium is only 20 degrees so it does not work at home. You also can't age beef at home. Same temp problems with fridge. Also beef needs to be aged in a primal cut and not a steak. Aging a cut steak will spoil it.

Thailand could produce good beef if they finished and fed it like they do in the states. Black Angus is the best breed for beef cattle but others will produce a decent steak or prime rib.

It would be easy to start a beef business here. Hire a feed lot and finishing lot manager from the states and train the slaughter house how to kill cattle.

Butchering is easy.

[bkkjames]

Remember a few years ago when the UK had that big hoof and mouth disease outbreak in cattle.

At the height of it I was in Pattaya for a weekend and strolling down walking street one night trying to decide where to have dinner at one of those restaurants on the water.

A young lady was holding a menu and as I got near she said, "Tonight's Special, beef from England". I didn't take her up on her offer.

[slapout]

kerryk; There are probably a few states who would contest "most of the beef in the US is raised on grass in Florida". Dry aging is still very much a norm where finished beef (grain/grass fed) is brought up to butcher weight, for local consumption. There are probably quite a few of the butcher/killing trucks still in use, who go to the farm kill the beef, etc in non stressful environment, gut and skin and transport back to their locker for proper aging, cutting and packaging. A lot of the beef killed for meat in Thailand is local or comes from dairy breeds, neither of which is a good beef/butcher prospect. The people/businesses who claim black Angus is best would find themselves outnumbered and surrounded by cattlemen with a different opinion. It was mentioned the huge numbers of Mexican beef exported to the US thru the border towns, the weight of these seemed to have been overlooked, some as small as 250 lbs. up to 400lbs.-+ as feeder calves (put out on wheat/grass pasture) prior to sending to feed lots. There is some dry aged beef available in CM (21 day) at specialty stores (western) which is eatable with proper cooking.

[rice555]

Hello kerryk, the main reasons cattle are fed antibiotics is to keep them well: 1. in confinement, ie, the feed lots.

2. from the rations they are feed, up to 90% corn(grain & silage).

Cattle are not natural corn eaters, you know, cattle old world- corn new world. Most of the large feed lots in Eastern

Colorado feed beef 140-150 days on high corn rations before they are sold to packing houses. After 90 days cattle are prone to getting ulcers from the high acid diet.(corn) Acidosis from their diet is another reason.

They may get antibiotics while it's home on the range, but the bulk, are used at the feed lots.

70% of all antibiotics used in the US are used on animals, not man. The guy that was in the interview where I heard this info runs a family farm, he feeds 14,000-16,000 head a year for market. He said, "This the beef the people want, this is what we give them, if they want grass feed, we'ed give them grass feed".

I still like my stakes, cold in the center.

rice555

[bonobo]

kerryk,

Actually, in my opinion, grass-fed beef is tastier than grain-fed beef.  Grain-fed beef is far more tender, though.

[bonobo]

I am off to the Philippines at the end of the week for a week or so, and I started to think.  Hamburgers in the Philippines are actually quite good, and the steaks are acceptable as well.  What are they doing right that growers in Thailand are not?  Both have similar climates.

[Mrjlh]

I eat at Chokchai every time I drive thru Saraburi going to Laos.

Will be going there twice next week.

By far the best steak I have found in Thailand.

Been on the tour of the farm twice.

Appears to be a first class operation.

The owner spent alot of time in the U.S.

In the steak restaurant there is a huge picture hanging at the entrance of the owner shaking hands with the late great Ronald Reagan.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you about their beef being so good. It's better than most places but after spending 650B on a steak at the restaurant, I could have cut it in half and made shoes with it! dam_n thing was so thin you could see thru it. And the Hamburger wasn't half bad, just fell apart while eating it. Only thing I did not try was buying a roast and taking it home to cook. The problem again is how it's butchered. Even in the states it's some times hard to find a good butcher who know the subtleties of cutting meat.

TMHO....

[JR Texas]

I am off to the Philippines at the end of the week for a week or so, and I started to think.  Hamburgers in the Philippines are actually quite good, and the steaks are acceptable as well.  What are they doing right that growers in Thailand are not?  Both have similar climates.

Please let us know about the beef there and maybe Mexican food (and visas and tourism level, etc).

Interesting that you think the beef is quite good in the Philippines. I had the same experience with the beef in Cambodia, but my guess is that I was eating imported beef (not sure).

Grain feeding must be the key..........maybe let em eat grass and a few months before slaughter grain feed them.

Thais don't seem to mind the local beef. I remember seeing a steer slaughtered right off a dirty and dusty road in Khon Kaen. They cut it up fast and took an entire hind-quarter and put it on a hook in the sun by the road (thus attracting dirt particles and flies).

That hind-quarter stood in the hot sun each day for a long time. They would cover it in a red cloth, nothing more.......no refrigeration. Men would come and eat it and drink beer at a restaurant nearby.

It smelled and looked totally disgusting to me.......Thais must have steel stomachs.

[kikoman]

The Philippines was under the control and occupation of the Spanish from 1521-1898, The Americans invaded and occupied the Philippines from 1898 until the end of the Second World war.

Almost the same story as the history of Texas and the beef production model of the Spanish- later the American beef imports.

Cheers:

[bonobo]

The Philippines was under the control and occupation of the Spanish from 1521-1898, The Americans invaded and occupied the Philippines from 1898 until the end of the Second World war.

Almost the same story as the history of Texas and the beef production model of the Spanish- later the American beef imports.

Cheers:

You know, that makes it own kind of sense.

[sabaijai]

I am off to the Philippines at the end of the week for a week or so, and I started to think.  Hamburgers in the Philippines are actually quite good, and the steaks are acceptable as well.  What are they doing right that growers in Thailand are not?  Both have similar climates.

My guess it's the cooking methods, rather than the beef.

[kikoman]

I am off to the Philippines at the end of the week for a week or so, and I started to think. Hamburgers in the Philippines are actually quite good, and the steaks are acceptable as well. What are they doing right that growers in Thailand are not? Both have similar climates.

My guess it's the cooking methods, rather than the beef.

Yes, you are right, the cooking of meat has a lot to do with the final outcome of the quality of the beef!

Cheers: