How much has Trump?

[JimShortz]

There always seems to be a lot of interest in Chiang Mai schools in this forum so I thought I'd throw this little tidbit in and see if anyone knows more. My reasons for thinking that Varee plans to go international are two-fold:

1. Yesterday their was a tiny advert on the front page of the Bangkok Post that read as follows:

HEAD TEACHER

for new international school

in Northern Thailand opening in 2010

Experience and familiarity with UK

Secondary School Curriculum essential

(subject teachers also required)

[email protected]

2. The slogan splashed across the front page of their English website reads "A Thai School With International Standards"

Not that I'm nosey (much!), but I'm interested to know what they plan to do. A new site with a seperate true international school? or integrated within their existing grounds/facilities?

It could turn out to be a viable cheaper alternative to the existing Chiang Mai international schools - which many Thai Visa mambers crave, but if it's within the existing site/management/constraints it may be far from easy to realise, especially the recruitment (and retention) of staff with UK education backgrounds. I wish them well!

Anyone know more? Care to share?

[stolidfeline]

I think that is the job that is being advertised by several agencies here in Bangkok. The salary was so low I doubt if they can get a trained monkey, let alone a head teacher.

[Stumbo]

Varee attracts quite a few posts and is a lovely new complex and all the people there are very nice, still I believe they don't teach very well. But for the middle class Thais probably looks quite Hi-So so should remain popular. Actually would be great if they did get themselves academically sorted out.

[rohitsuk]

I attended the parents' briefing last weekend when the Principal, Madame Varee herself, explained the two options of the English Programme for next academic year. The first is an enhancement of the present programme, which will take it to 50% taught in English, although some of that, as now, will be taught by Thai teachers, who vary between extremely capable and barely adequate. Surprise, surprise the fees are to increase to fund the cost of the anticipated enhancement.

The second option is for an all English programme, except for Thai language of course, that will all be taught by native speaking teachers, leading to the Cambridge IGCSE exams. Success in these exams will greatly facilitate access to UK and other western universities and the International Programmes of Thailand's premier universities, such as the Medical Faculty at Mahidol. However, for children to succeed in this programme they will need to be at or very near native speaker level as they enter it, the texts used having been written for native speakers and have the ability to study towards UK GCSE level. It is, therefore, clearly not for all children which is why our own two will be continuing in the ordinary English programme, where they are very happy and do reasonably well. Whilst we all want our children to achieve the very best of which they are capable, there is no greater mistake than allowing your own ambition to push them beyond their ability level, where they will be doomed to misery and failure.

I understand that the IGCSE programme is to cost about Baht 150k a year, more than double the 50/50 English programme and substantially more than the native speaker taught English Programme at Montfort College, although I am not sure if that leads to IGCSE.

Well at the very least it is another option for parents in Chiang Mai to consider but I would suggest that it needs to be considered very carefully to ensure that it does, in fact, fit with and fulfil the needs of your child.

[Greenside]

Actually there was an advance briefing for parents of students at the school yesterday although the official launch and preview day is set for February 27th.

Varee Chiang Mai School's International Annexe opens in August 2010 and will offer the Cambridge International GCSE curriculum leading to qualifications similar to (some say better than) the standard General Certificate of Secondary Education that almost all students take in England when they are 16. The International Annexe will have it's own teaching staff, a dedicated floor in a new building and work to the International School calendar. I don't recall the fee structure but I would expect it to be competitive with the other schools around town although given that most of the facilities will be brand new maybe they'll pitch themselves a bit higher. If it's a success, I would expect it to evolve into something even more independent.

Beyond GCSE, they are going to offer Advanced Level and, they say, possibly the International Baccalaureate if demand warrants it. They figure there is a significant body of parents with children in their English Programme who may opt for the international curriculum at the end of Prathom who might not have chosen (or been in a position to afford) one of the other CM International Schools from the start. I think there's some sense in this - see how your child takes to learning in English and put off the hard decision about the money until as late as possible. It's what I'm planning to do!

I don't think their website has any information on this as yet but I expect that now the word's out they'll get on it soon.

[JimShortz]

Wow - at 150,000 you are at true international school fees. You could choose CMIS, Lanna or NIS for that kind of money (and considerably less, depending on what age we are talking about)!

And just to clarify - IGCSEs will NOT get anybody into UK, USA or any other western universities. They are equivalents to the GCSE examinations taken by UK children at 16 years old (and are intended to be taken by 16 year olds here). They are merely a stepping stone towards more advanced studies. Students need to go on to study AS and A levels during their last two years at school to gain qualifications that would allow them access to the full range of western universities... Do you know if Varee plans to offer these advanced courses, or will it end at IGCSE?

IGCSEs will of course get students into Thai universities, but then so would not having IGCSEs... The entry requirements of virtually all Thai universities are, unfortunately, woefully low. IGCSEs without the advanced qualifications that they are a step towards really have very little value for university admission.

edit: My questions seem to have been answered while I was writing my message. Thanks for that

Edited December 11, 2009 by JimShortz

[Greenside]

I think we crossed posts there!

As you say, an IGCSE is only the first step and kids who intend to go on to further education (that's all of them here since you can't get a job fixing the road without a degree of some kind) need to complete their secondary schooling with A Levels or the IB as they do at Prem. I believe that the IGCSE/A Level/IB route with satisfactory grades would be sufficient to get you into almost any reputable university or other further education in virtually any country.

The intake is going to start at the equivalent of Mattayom 2 (I forget exactly what age that means) so whatever the fees are they should be compared with those of a similar age but I don't think they will be aggressively low. They clearly intend this to be a new International School although starting in a fairly limited way and the choice of the UK curriculum would seem to put them squarely up against Lanna since most of the others offer the US system as far as I know.

[Mapguy]

Very interesting about Varee, and "Madame" Varee.

You will get what you pay for at Varee, and that isn't a lot really compared to really good schools, if you know anything about schools.

An extraordinary capital investment has been made in the school over the past couple of years. The mortgage needs to be paid off. The expansion programs sound logical to pay the mortgage, but not educationally. Successful schools depend upon teachers (and other educational factors, such as class size), not upon fancy buildings and a lovely swimming pool. Good teachers have solid credentials: training and experience. Varee simply comes up short where it really counts. And never mind class size or how much is really spent on children with special needs to pick a couple of really important measures. Don't believe any yadda yadda from the school and its apologists that appears on TV Chiang Mai about all teachers are "qualified." Do you know what that means in Thailand? Check it out. Does that produce good teachers? Not really! Here's an easy test. Do you see the CVs of the teachers posted anywhere with their photos? Why not?

I have heard some very nice things about the owner which leads me to think she is not uncaring, but what I am seeing just plain doesn't compute -- and the school is not honest about the credentials of its faculty (which it certainly doesn't pay very well!) or a couple of other things!

The school is now trying to promise a "superior" curriculum. Be very, very careful, however. You had better understand a lot of things about all those programs. Then, if you do, and if that's your budget, go for it. Just don't kid yourself! To visit the place is a pleasure. Basically, you encounter happy people and happy students. At least I did, but then I dug a lot deeper and I have had some experience with schools.

By the way, I do not represent any school, and I really don't have any particular bone to pick with Varee except to say that I don't think it is anywhere close to what it claims to be or wants to be. It is the lack of genuine transparency (as well as the naiveté of some parents) that distresses me!

Must be a hel_l of a mortgage!

[Loaded]

Western universities that accept foreign students usually have requirements particular to that country. I believe most Western universities will accept Thai students for undergraduate study if they have completed Matayom 6 with a GPA of at least 3.2-3.5 and an IELTS band score of at least 5.5 - 6.5 (or TOEFL equivalent).

IGCSE + A/AS level and an acceptable IELTS band score is an alternative route

[getgoin]

Wow - at 150,000 you are at true international school fees. You could choose CMIS, Lanna or NIS for that kind of money (and considerably less, depending on what age we are talking about)!

150,000 a year? What we will begin to find now is the other international schools will use this as an excuse to raise their prices more.

Some of the schools have become pioneers in the field of raising prices. Recession year and everyone is struggling to make ends meet and they raise their prices. It makes you wonder if they are really so caring about our children and us or about themselves?

I know, a good education cost money and how can they continue to compete if they can't hire good teachers and make school improvements. This might sound strange coming from a place that is teaching economics but it is the argument that they use. The answer is that it's not a matter of raising prices when times are good and the economy is moving forward.

Raising prices during a recession? It seems almost counter productive but they are the experts or in this case, they want the money and they will get it.

[Greenside]

Wow - at 150,000 you are at true international school fees. You could choose CMIS, Lanna or NIS for that kind of money (and considerably less, depending on what age we are talking about)!

150,000 a year? What we will begin to find now is the other international schools will use this as an excuse to raise their prices more.

Some of the schools have become pioneers in the field of raising prices. Recession year and everyone is struggling to make ends meet and they raise their prices. It makes you wonder if they are really so caring about our children and us or about themselves?

I know, a good education cost money and how can they continue to compete if they can't hire good teachers and make school improvements. This might sound strange coming from a place that is teaching economics but it is the argument that they use. The answer is that it's not a matter of raising prices when times are good and the economy is moving forward.

Raising prices during a recession? It seems almost counter productive but they are the experts or in this case, they want the money and they will get it.

I don't really understand your point. VCS's intake will be children in Years 7 - 9 which is broadly speaking the transition from Prathom to Mattayom. The equivalent fees for the current year at Lanna (as per their website) for Years 7-9 which is 11 to 13 years of age is 170,000 baht (+ 50k if extra English is required) and these will doubtless rise at least in line with inflation for the 2010/11 academic year. In fact, I understood the 150k that was quoted above to be after a discount that will be extended to current VCS pupils so I'd guess that in reality they are probably not too different. Nothing there that's going to start any of the other schools raising (or lowering) their prices.

As for posting pictures of teachers with their CVs Mapguy, are there any schools here that do that? Other than maybe the Heads of Departments I don't recall any schools in England that do it as a matter of course but it certainly might be a good thing to encourage!

[getgoin]

Sure I was not talking about the fees at VCS. I think it is expensive. I was saying that the other schools will use their expensive rates (at VCS) as a reason to raise their rates even more and they have been very good at raising their rates already.

What is it that you don't understand? The expensive prices at VCS or the other schools raising their prices in a recession year?

[Mapguy]

Wow - at 150,000 you are at true international school fees. You could choose CMIS, Lanna or NIS for that kind of money (and considerably less, depending on what age we are talking about)!

150,000 a year? What we will begin to find now is the other international schools will use this as an excuse to raise their prices more.

Some of the schools have become pioneers in the field of raising prices. Recession year and everyone is struggling to make ends meet and they raise their prices. It makes you wonder if they are really so caring about our children and us or about themselves?

I know, a good education cost money and how can they continue to compete if they can't hire good teachers and make school improvements. This might sound strange coming from a place that is teaching economics but it is the argument that they use. The answer is that it's not a matter of raising prices when times are good and the economy is moving forward.

Raising prices during a recession? It seems almost counter productive but they are the experts or in this case, they want the money and they will get it.

I don't really understand your point. VCS's intake will be children in Years 7 - 9 which is broadly speaking the transition from Prathom to Mattayom. The equivalent fees for the current year at Lanna (as per their website) for Years 7-9 which is 11 to 13 years of age is 170,000 baht (+ 50k if extra English is required) and these will doubtless rise at least in line with inflation for the 2010/11 academic year. In fact, I understood the 150k that was quoted above to be after a discount that will be extended to current VCS pupils so I'd guess that in reality they are probably not too different. Nothing there that's going to start any of the other schools raising (or lowering) their prices.

As for posting pictures of teachers with their CVs Mapguy, are there any schools here that do that? Other than maybe the Heads of Departments I don't recall any schools in England that do it as a matter of course but it certainly might be a good thing to encourage!

Last time I looked, Prem School does.

I agree that it would be a good idea, indeed, for schools to post information about their staff with their degrees and experience noted. Can't see anything wrong with that at all. And information should be verifiable.

[getgoin]

Sure I was not talking about the fees at VCS. I think it is expensive. I was saying that the other schools will use their expensive rates (at VCS) as a reason to raise their rates even more and they have been very good at raising their rates already.

What is it that you don't understand? The expensive prices at VCS or the other schools raising their prices in a recession year?

t

[alfieconn]

However, for children to succeed in this programme they will need to be at or very near native speaker level as they enter it, the texts used having been written for native speakers and have the ability to study towards UK GCSE level. It is, therefore, clearly not for all children which is why our own two will be continuing in the ordinary English programme, where they are very happy and do reasonably well. Whilst we all want our children to achieve the very best of which they are capable, there is no greater mistake than allowing your own ambition to push them beyond their ability level, where they will be doomed to misery and failure.

I totally agree with your comments here.

My daughter currently attends the English programme at Varee school but i am seriously thinking about putting her in the normal Thai programme for the following reason.

Thinking about this logicly,trying to learn any subject in your own language can be difficult enough let alone learning a subject in a language that you are not totally au fax with, therefore is the childrens Thai education falling down at the the expense of improving their English.

I did actually ask my daughter the question, "when do you understand Maths more, when it is taught in Thai or when it is taught in English'' and her answer was ''when it is taught in Thai'' which sort of confirms my theory, although this obviously might not be the case for all children.

Anyway if i do put her in the Thai programme she will then have extra English tuition out of school to make up for the shortfall.

Edited December 14, 2009 by alfieconn

[PeaceBlondie]

I checked my daughter's webpage at the gifted-talented school where she teaches high school chemistry. As her proud Papa, I asked why she didn't list her ultra-expensive degrees from one of Texas' best schools. "Oh Daddy, half the faculty went there!"

I don't know exactly, but I think Prem-Lanna-APIS-NIS-CMIS have real Western certified teachers. Even the Spanish profesora at CMIS.

[Ricardo]

The Prem Center web-site does have photos, qualifications & career-details, of all farang/Thai Senior/Junior-School teachers and interns, also Boarding & Senior-Admin staff.

[PeaceBlondie]

I just checked websites of Lanna IST, Grace, CMIS, NIS and APIS. No info on faculty education at first glance.

[Thakkar]

I just checked websites of Lanna IST, Grace, CMIS, NIS and APIS. No info on faculty education at first glance.

NIS have this info at their site: http://www.nis.ac.th/nis/index.php?page=teaching

They've always had it as far back as 2004. The info was a little more detailed in the past. For example they used to inform how many years of teaching experience each teacher had.

[infernalman7]

So far I think Prem has the best website and the curriculum, IB. No other international schools in Chiang Mai offers that.