Working In Rural Thailand

[richieudon]

Can anyone tell me about the legality of working in rural Thailand?

I'm a bit confused by the rules and regulations....

I live up in the North East and have seen many farangs which are married to Thai ladies but who also work with them.

Be it "I own 64 rai of rubber trees" or "I've jut bought a load of pigs or cattle" I even see farangs working on market stalls selling fruit and even clothes! I see a few driving tractors.

From what I understood farangs cannot do these types of jobs in Thailand, just as they're not allowed to serve you in a bar.

I know a story of a guy who go into trouble for hanging a mirror up in his gym.

Can you do these jobs with a work permit or are they actually illegal?

I'm asking because I have a great excuse for not helping my wife cut the rice each year. I tell her I'm not allowed to by law and she tells me that's a lame excuse and that many farangs work on the farms.

I believe these are the rules....

http://www.thaivisa.com/330.0.html

Any feedback would be appreciated

Thanks

Prohibited types of work Monday, 18 December 2006

Prohibited types of work in Thailand

Reference :

List Annexed to the Royal Decree Naming Occupations and Professions Prohibited to Foreigners, B.E. 2522 (1979)

The Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281). Business activities falling in categories A & B are generally closed to foreigners. Under category C you must obtain a permit prior to commencing business. Businesses outside these categories are exempt. The Ministry of Commerce will also help applications of non trading offices.

Category A:

1.Agriculture: rice farming; salt farming. Commercial Business: Internal trade in local agriculture products, Land trade. Service business: Accounting, farming animals, architecture, advertising, brokerage, auctioning, Barber, hair dressing & beautician. Building industry.

Category B.

1. Agriculture Business: orchids, cultivation, animal husbandry including silk worm raising, timbering, fishing.

2. Industrial & Handicraft: Rice milling, Flour making, sugar, alcohol & non alcohol drinks, Ice cream, Pharmaceutical manufacturing, cold storage, timber, gold, silver and inlaid stone, wood carving, lacquer-ware, match making, cement etc, Dynamiting rocks, Manufacturing garments & shoes, Printing, newspaper publishing, silk weaving or silk printing, manufacture of finished products in silk.

3. Commercial: all retailing not in category C. Or trading not in Category C, selling food an drinks, trading of antiques & fine arts.

4 Service Industry: Tour agency, Hotels except Hotel management, photography, laundering, dress making and service jobs.

5. Land, water & ie. transport.

Category C.

You are allowed to do the following. Exporting, all wholesale trades not in A & B. retiling machinery, equipment & tools, selling food, beverages that promote tourism. Industrial & handicraft Business: manufacturing animal feeds, vegetable oil extraction, textile manufacturing, dyeing, fabric printing, glass ware manufacturing, making plates and bowls, stationary & printing paper, rock salt mining, mining.

Service: anything not in A or B.

Prohibited types of work Monday, 18 December 2006

Prohibited types of work in Thailand

Reference :

List Annexed to the Royal Decree Naming Occupations and Professions Prohibited to Foreigners, B.E. 2522 (1979)

The Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281). Business activities falling in categories A & B are generally closed to foreigners. Under category C you must obtain a permit prior to commencing business. Businesses outside these categories are exempt. The Ministry of Commerce will also help applications of non trading offices.

Category A:

1.Agriculture: rice farming; salt farming. Commercial Business: Internal trade in local agriculture products, Land trade. Service business: Accounting, farming animals, architecture, advertising, brokerage, auctioning, Barber, hair dressing & beautician. Building industry.

Category B.

1. Agriculture Business: orchids, cultivation, animal husbandry including silk worm raising, timbering, fishing.

2. Industrial & Handicraft: Rice milling, Flour making, sugar, alcohol & non alcohol drinks, Ice cream, Pharmaceutical manufacturing, cold storage, timber, gold, silver and inlaid stone, wood carving, lacquer-ware, match making, cement etc, Dynamiting rocks, Manufacturing garments & shoes, Printing, newspaper publishing, silk weaving or silk printing, manufacture of finished products in silk.

3. Commercial: all retailing not in category C. Or trading not in Category C, selling food an drinks, trading of antiques & fine arts.

4 Service Industry: Tour agency, Hotels except Hotel management, photography, laundering, dress making and service jobs.

5. Land, water & ie. transport.

Category C.

You are allowed to do the following. Exporting, all wholesale trades not in A & B. retiling machinery, equipment & tools, selling food, beverages that promote tourism. Industrial & handicraft Business: manufacturing animal feeds, vegetable oil extraction, textile manufacturing, dyeing, fabric printing, glass ware manufacturing, making plates and bowls, stationary & printing paper, rock salt mining, mining.

Service: anything not in A or B.

[gotlost]

You are quite correct in your observation and interpretation of the law,BUT in rural area's and I also live in one, certain laws are not understood, interpreted or in forced as we would see in the more popular farang areas. BUT do not upset the locals because the will have you on the next buffalo out of town if you P--- Them OFF.

[richieudon]

You are quite correct in your observation and interpretation of the law,BUT in rural area's and I also live in one, certain laws are not understood, interpreted or in forced as we would see in the more popular farang areas. BUT do not upset the locals because the will have you on the next buffalo out of town if you P--- Them OFF.

Well I'm not into upsetting people.

Does this mean the police don't understand the law? Or are they not really bothered?

Also, does this mean I've no excuse next year and it's geaw kao for me??!!

[Frenske]

As long as you do your thing and don’t bother the villagers they don’t really care what you do. I occasionally work with them on the rice fields, pick the Lamljei and cut the weeds in my tree farm. The villagers and the local police appreciate me for not being a typical lazy Farang ass.

[PoorSucker]

The Local police doesn't know the regulations.

This is for immigrations, and labour office.

Not the local police jurisdiction.

[473geo]

I don't know how correct my way of thinking is......but I use the 'O' visa under the pretext that my services/time on the farm are volunteered......

[gotlost]

I don't know how correct my way of thinking is......but I use the 'O' visa under the pretext that my services/time on the farm are volunteered......

Even volunteer work in Thailand you need a work permit.

[Gary A]

I was watching my wife and some of her workers planting rice earlier in the year. Her workers were teasing me about helping. I asked my wife how much she would pay me. She told me the help gets 175 baht per day. I told her that I wouldn't work for that. She immediately replied that was good because I wasn't worth 175 baht a day. Smart mouthed woman.

[IsaanAndy]

I've 'worked' in the rice paddies before and boy is it hard work, just to show willing.

I've also 'worked' by painting and decorating the village hall not to mention cutting grass verges and helping around the Temple.

The locals love it when they see you join in and be apart of the community, they certainly don't care and wouldn't know anything about any laws regarding farangs ability under the law to 'work'.

They are grateful for the help.

My tip, which I did this year, was to go on holiday to Engalnd and visit my family so no rice harvesting for me this time around. Problem solved.

[473geo]

I don't know how correct my way of thinking is......but I use the 'O' visa under the pretext that my services/time on the farm are volunteered......

Even volunteer work in Thailand you need a work permit.

Category “O” visit friends/family, for extended stay in Thailand, visit as UK pensioner, to work as a volunteer,

attend training course (teaching English, scuba diving, etc) and to seek work/employment. This

category does not allow paid or unpaid employment without a work permit.

As I am not employed......does that not make me a volunteer?

[Lite Beer]

From the Dept. Of Employment website. http://www.doe.go.th/service3_en.aspx

1. Definition

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality; “ Work ” means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

[473geo]

From the Dept. Of Employment website. http://www.doe.go.th/service3_en.aspx

1. Definition

"Alien" means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality; " Work " means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

Wow - 5 years in Jail or up to 100,000 baht fine if working in 'prohibited employment'....... ...ooops!!!

[jazzbo]

I do not live in the rural part of Isaan -- but it would seem as with most anything else in Thailand, you only have to worry if some neighbor or someone else who has a grudge against your family and a rudimentary knowledge of the law decides to turn you in to police and/or labor authorities... It can be interpreted that by YOUR working -- and as per Kuhn G.'s wife ineffectual or otherwise -- you are depriving a needy Thai citizen of their 175 baht per day.

[473geo]

I do not live in the rural part of Isaan -- but it would seem as with most anything else in Thailand, you only have to worry if some neighbor or someone else who has a grudge against your family and a rudimentary knowledge of the law decides to turn you in to police and/or labor authorities... It can be interpreted that by YOUR working -- and as per Kuhn G.'s wife ineffectual or otherwise -- you are depriving a needy Thai citizen of their 175 baht per day.

Or GaryA of about 20 baht a day!!!!....

[nakachalet]

the intention of the labor laws is to preclude the possibility of farangs or other nationals replacing thai labor force....

there have been farangs and other nationals helping their thai family members from as long as i could remember.... mostly in rural areas.... there has never been any problem that i could recall in the rural and agricultural regions....

however, if these same group of farangs and others were to do the same tasks in larger cities, such as bkk or cm or hdy.... i would imagine the outcomes of their good deeds could be very much different....

as far as i know, locals love it when they see you out there among them, being like one of them, doing what they do, sweating it out among them.... and if you were fortunate enough to be in the southern part of thailand, laboring in rubber and palm plantations.... you could end the days with several bottle of free beers plus spicey meal et cetera.... lol

arrest and filing of complaint are really not known nor practised outside of more developed areas of thailand....

the crux of the matter is.... do not step on the locals' dirty big toes.... nor say, nor do, whatever that they might consider or misinterpret as "DOO TOOG" <ridicule>....

granted.... others might have different experiences.... let's share it....

[dom samui]

Be however very careful.... in some cities some are now throwing themselves under farang driven cars and motorbikes just to get some easy money back... world fast changing... immigration buros are not so far anywhere you stay . if some nice people call them ,they will be very happy to share together the 100000 baths they will ask you to forget everything ...so its a kind of game .

also 571 days of work..... Up to you. ! Lasy farang

[siggie2]

One of the recent thaivisa posts was about farangs owning land in Issan and working the land without permits.The only problem i can see if you do get caught it could be deportation and many of us wouldnt like that too much.Also there cant be much money in this business unless you have plenty of land then again,could be in trouble

[Lite Beer]

Wow - 5 years in Jail or up to 100,000 baht fine if working in 'prohibited employment'....... ...ooops!!!

Prohibited Employment http://www.thaivisa.com/330.0.html

[473geo]

The law is the law, I totally agree with the protection it offers the Thai workforce....but where do you stop?

Can you make your wife a coffee?.....pour the local police a drink when they visit??.....iron the childrens shirts......without putting yourself at risk!!!!!

You see....... what I call helping out....it appears is work........

I'm not grumbling....just curious......

[473geo]

I think I've found it......am I allowed to look after and entertain the children while the other half is reaping?.......

[roiethome]

I agree with the previous postings. I have retired and lived in Isaan for many years. The trick is to "be" one of the villagers and be one of them. I have never had any issue helping out around the village and it is often rewarded with food and beers.

[richieudon]

I agree with the previous postings. I have retired and lived in Isaan for many years. The trick is to "be" one of the villagers and be one of them. I have never had any issue helping out around the village and it is often rewarded with food and beers.

I really appreciate all the feedback

It seems to me that it's illegal but as long as you don't p_ss anyone off then it's OK.

I do help around the farm. I don't look at it as taking a man's wages. I look at it as saving my father-in-law a bit of money as they're really poor. Also I like to help but sometimes, as was this year, the cutting of rice in the searing heat when it's laying on the floor due to a strong wind isn't that appealing.

Also I agree with other posts. Where do you draw the line?

Is it illegal to water my garden in the morning or take my kid to school because I'm depriving the bus driver 300 baht a month?

It seems fine up here in Baan Nok but in other parts of the country you have to be really careful.

I only asked because there are farangs up here working on market stalls, you don't see that in the holiday destinations...!

[PoorSucker]

When I go visit my family in Chiang Mai, I never work on the fields etc.

I cook everyday instead, they just love to come home after a hard days work and have some beef stew or similar.

[Tanaka]

I agree with the previous postings. I have retired and lived in Isaan for many years. The trick is to "be" one of the villagers and be one of them. I have never had any issue helping out around the village and it is often rewarded with food and beers.

You are right of course. But you never know, that is the problem. You can do this for years and one day someone, for whatever reason, feels he does not like you. Or someone passing through or visiting in the village, sees you and does not much like farangs. And suddenly you face deportation and the end of your life in Thailand.

You are taking this risk every time. Up to you.

[worldfun]

so what?

you took the risk of posting & for all I know you may have already died.

well I guess we both wasted valuable international bandwidth - ciao!

[Time Traveller]

I think the question is not whether you are allowed to or not, but rather why would you ever want to? For 175 Bt day wouldn't it be easier just to hire a Cambodian coolie then you could be sitting back "supervising" the labour with a cool drink in one hand and a whip in the other.

(To any Khmer readers, I'm only kidding about that )

[johnnyk]

I agree with all who said helping out in the mooban will give you face... and a sore back!

You might also want to buy a beer or two for the pooyai baan now and then. If you are on his good side not much bad will happen to you.

[griz47]

I do some work in the north east basically because i can never get a Thai to do it the falang way and I just don't trust the village Thais with some technical jobs. I've never had a problem and most of the villagers appreciate me because I'm not lazy

[bdenner]

I guess there is no fine line between working or just pottering around to cure the boredom. I was once told that by the 'letter of the law' I could not be a volunteer English Teacher at the local school during one of their specialist English camps. I did anyway and was presented with a nice certificate for my efforts by the Education Minister for the Udon Providence. I give the rice paddies a wide berth but occasionally do a bit on our Eucalyptus Farm.

The bottom line is they really don’t care what we do, on a local level, so long as we do not tread on any toes!

[Gonsalviz]

Well, I did some wiring and installed a water heater and associated plumbing in the inlaws house. I did some weeding etc on the plot of rubber trees I paid for.

Nobody said a word. I don't think it is a concern for them.